Thursday, 10th November, 2016

Hon. Members, I wish to inform you that the Intergovernmental Relations Technical Committee, which is established by the Intergovernmental Relations Act and is responsible for the coordination of activities and functions of the Summit and the Council of Governors (CoG) among other functions, has organised and invited the Senate to a consultative meeting to deliberate on issues geared to improve service delivery in the devolved units.

Hon. Senators, the objects of the meeting are:-

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Based on past experiences with some of these institutions, it is very clear that their intention is to lobby us to assist them to get more funding. Be that as it may, I want to request that you write to them and tell them that they should come and explain to us the status of the important matter of handing over and taking over of the assets and liabilities from the defunct local authorities to the county governments.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is now four years since we embraced devolution and the exercise has not been addressed. Land and other forms of assets continue to be abused.

Finally, they should also be reminded to come and account for the budget they were given as the TA. That is, Kshs61,595,000 per county which they used during the time of transition to buy things but they have never accounted for.

I thank you.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, your concerns are noted and will definitely be communicated. I am sure they are part and parcel of the discussions at the meeting. In addition to us writing to them, I want to believe that you are also committing your participation.

Hon. Senators, I have another communication to make

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery this afternoon, of the visiting staffs from Kilifi and West Pokot county assemblies who are on attachment in the Senate. I request each member of the delegation to stand when called out, so that he or she may be acknowledged in the usual Senate tradition.

They are:-

Mr. Speaker, Sir, allow me to join you in welcoming the staffs from Kilifi and West Pokot County. I commend the people of Kilifi for the beautiful assembly that was opened by you last week. I witnessed that devolution is really at work and the people of Kilifi will benefit from their staff coming to learn from the Senate. I want to attest that their assembly is remarkable because it is very well furnished.

I would like to commend the Senator for Kilifi, Stewart Madzayo, for inviting me to take part in their ceremony last week.

They are welcome and should take our greetings when they go back to Kilifi.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also join you in welcoming and congratulating the delegations from the two county assemblies for choosing to come to the Senate to see how we do work for them. I would like to remind them that Senate does oversight and protects the interests of county governments and counties.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are witnessing many county assemblies and county governments coming to see how the Senate and the National Assembly work. However, they have begun too late towards the end of the life of this Parliament. They should have begun early in 2013 or 2014. However, what we witnessed that time was very interesting. Many delegations were going to Israel while some were going to Singapore and South Africa. I do not know what they were going to benchmark.

It is good to learn from your neighbours. I particularly encourage the staff from my county assembly to visit their neighbouring counties. I do not know whether they have been to Turkana, Elgeyo-Marakwet, Trans Nzoia and so on to see how their neighbours are performing.

Otherwise, I welcome them and wish them well in Nairobi.

Finally, Justice Retired, Sen. Madzayo.

Bw. Spika, naunga mkono ndugu zangu. Kwanza, nakushukuru sana kwa uamuzi uliofanya kuruhusu wafanyakazi wa kutoka Kaunti ya Kilifi kuja ili kujifundisha na kujionea jinsi Seneti inavyoendesha shughuli zake. Watapa mafunzo ya kutosha na wanaporudi

nyumbani, nina hakika watafurahia kutokana na watakayojifundisha hapa. Pili, Bw. Spika, ninakushuru kwa kukubali mwito. Waswahili husema kwamba mtu hakatai mwito, hukataa analoitiwa. Wewe ulikuja kwa kukubali mwito na ulijionea wazi kwamba Serikali ya Kaunti ya Kilifi inawania kufanya kazi ya ugatuzi kisawasawa ili kuhakikisha kaunti zingine zinaiga mfano wake.

Bw. Spika, asante sana.

Hon. Senators, I wish to recognise the presence of visiting pupils and teachers from Muthurwa Islamic Academy, Nairobi County. They are seated at the Public Gallery.

In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to our Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to them. On behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I wish them a fruitful visit.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to make a statement on an issue of general topical concern regarding the unlawful issuance of the title deeds by Embu County---

Order, Senator! Check your Order Paper, we are on Petitions.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my point of order is under Petitions. It was under a petition which I filed the last two years and so far nothing has happened following the petition, hearing, presentation and adoption of the report from the Committee that was named last time.

It has taken long for Kirinyaga people to know the outcome. The outcome was decreed and given by the Senate, but so far, nothing has happened. So, this is a form of a petition which has been filed here and tabled on behalf of Kirinyaga County Mihiriga Kenda.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Will I be in order to request that you give an order to the committees dealing with various petitions to finalize them and table their reports before the end of the month?

Order, Senator! I will give you the chance to do so under statements because the petition was already disposed of.

Much obliged, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Elachi, what was your intervention?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am requesting you to ask the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget to finalise all the petitions pending before it and table the report before the end of the month?

Indeed, let us hear from the Vice-Chairperson of the Finance, Committee, Sen. Mositet.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. It is true that we have quite a number of petitions and we are working on them. One of the problems we are facing is that some governors do not honour our summons. For example, Kakamega County, Gov. Oparanya.

We have one petition from Kisumu County Government which we had referred to both the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget and Committee on Devolved Government. Our Committee was to raise the quorum so that could discuss and finalise it. However, when it comes to the Committee on the Devolved Government, it has never managed to raise a quorum.

Kisumu.

Order, Senator! We do not have a copy. So you may wish to make it available. What you have is not enough.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have just received two of them.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, did you hear the Vice Chairperson saythey are unable to summon Gov. Oparanya? His residence is well known and they can get him by all means.

Order, Sen. (Prof) Lonyangapuo! You are misrepresenting the Vice-Chairperson. He did not say that he does not know the home address of Gov. Oparanya. He was giving an example of one of those who have frustrated their work by not appearing. So, you could actually imply that maybe the Governor does not know the address of the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget.

Sen. Mositet, what is important is the concern by Sen. Elachi. I have already communicated to all the committees that they need to conclude all the petitions given that already Standing Orders spell the number of days that petitions must be cleared. The Session is coming to an end. So, we must have all the petitions by all committees reported by end of the month, latest by the last day of the business.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I feel very embarrassed as Senator for Kisumu because this petition has been before the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget for close to three years. When you ordered that the Committee on Devolved Government should join us, that is when our misery started. The Committee on Devolved Government has not been meeting. They only came to our meeting once or twice. I really do not think that enjoining the Committee on Devolved Government to this petition added any value nor should they enjoy the luxury of trying to read that petition because they had no input in it. It is punishing the residents Kisumu County to detain this petition without being passed by this Senate for the three years.

My instinct and my humble advice would be let the Committee which has dealt with this petition table it in the Senate and let the Committee on Devolved Government not delay us any further.

Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’-Nyong’o, I really do not know where that intervention is coming from. You are just repeating what the Vice- Chairperson requested the Chair. I am yet to respond to that particular matter, but I appreciate your frustrations.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Whereas I appreciate the frustrations that are being expressed by the Members, particularly regarding petitions, would I be in order to ask that we relook at the whole matter of petitions as a House with the objective of raising the threshold for what constitutes a petition? Whereas it is a constitutional right of individuals to petition the House, in other jurisdictions, if you look at, for example, the United States of America, there is a minimum number of people who must sign a document called a petition in order for it to take it effect.

The Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget has got petitions galore. We need to have a special committee that will deal with nothing else except petitions in order

committee that has other responsibilities to execute the number of petitions that are brought to this House will be extremely difficult.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I ask the House considers the matter of petitions with the view of legislating, so that there is a threshold that a petition shall meet before it is brought to the House.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The matter that has been raised by distinguished Sen. Beatrice Elachi is extremely important. Two governors, Gov. Akaranga from Vihiga County and Gov. Oparanya from Kakamega County, have set the notorious record of being the only governors who have defied this Senate. Luckily for us, the Director of Public Prosecution (DPP) was able to address us, as the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC) . He told us that the Senate has the power to order for arrest.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, without delaying the process further, could you order from the Chair that the two governors be arrested forthwith, and on Monday, they be frog-matched to the Senate Committees? We want to deal with them because they have stolen money. They are thieves---

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. It is quite tempting for the Chair to give those directions, but we can do better. We will deal with that matter in a different way for the same results.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Without losing the point that was raised by Sen. Kagwe, we need to relook some of the petitions afresh. Most of what was raised in the petitions was captured by the Auditor-General’s report. The CPAIC, headed by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'- Nyong'o, has already dispensed with some of the reports. We may need to relook at petitions afresh. This is because there is a repetition and overload of work on the Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget.

Members, let me dispose the issue of how to handle petitions. The suggestions by Sen. Kagwe and Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo are matters that can be considered, because we have already instituted the Rules and Procedures Committee to relook into the Standing Orders. That is one avenue.

I do not think that all is lost because it is upon the Committee to determine on how to dispose the matter. If you find that a petition has no merit, why should you keep it or look for witnesses? Make your consideration and bring the report. The Committee can also look at what the other committees are doing through the Liaison Committee, so that you may know what is in the Auditor-General’s report and compare it with what you have. There are many ways to deal with that particular matter. There is no reason a petition should delay at all.

Regarding the matter of Kisumu that was raised by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o, the Vice Chairperson raised it with me and we will handle it administratively. The Standing Orders are clear that petitions should go to the relevant Standing Committee.

I gave the Committee on Devolved Government an opportunity because some of the issues are within its mandate. The fact that the Committee on Devolved Government did not participate does not make your report invalid. I do not understand why it took three years. You should not blame the Committee on Devolved Government; the blame

primary Committee to deal with the Petition.

The Petition, as it is now, cannot be tabled because the Committee is yet to receive my approval; I am just seeing the report now. You will have to wait for your famous four days for the report to go through the normal process. It will then be tabled before the House.

Next Order!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate, today Thursday, 10th November, 2016:-

Next Order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Statement on an issue of general topical concern regarding the unlawful issuance of title deeds by the Embu County Government in the area of the Mwea Trust Lands.

Kenda (nine clans) concerning the boundary disputes between Kirinyaga and Embu counties, in respect of the 54,000 acres area known as Mwea Trust Lands. In the Petition, it was highlighted that the people of Kirinyaga County have a historical and ancestral claim to the said Mwea Trust Lands, which were unlawfully hived from the former Kerugoya Sub-district, which is now known as Kirinyaga County, to what is now Mbeere South Sub-county of Embu.

It was also highlighted that at the time of presenting the Petition, the County Government of Embu had commenced the process of adjudicating and demarcating the said 54,000-acre piece of land comprising Wachoro, Karaba, Riakanau and Makima adjudication sections for allotment. As a result, tensions were rising by the day in the area due to rival claims to the land by the Mihiriga Kenda people of Kirinyaga County on one hand and the Mbeere and Kamba people of South Mbeere Sub County on the other hand.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, one of the prayers contained in the said Petition was for the Senate, pending determination of the boundary issue between Kirinyaga and Embu counties, to intervene to have the process of adjudication and demarcation of Mwea Trust Lands by Embu County Government immediately halted or to be jointly undertaken by county government of Kirinyaga and Embu.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Petition was thereafter committed to the Standing Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, which after one year and two months, tabled its report on 6th July, 2016. In the said report, the Committee deferred consideration of the boundary issue between the two counties on the basis that a Bill on the county boundaries was due for introduction before the Senate. This is yet to be done.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the reason I am bringing up this matter is because the substance of the Petition I presented was not about the boundary issue, but rather the process by which the County Government of Embu was taking to unilaterally demarcate the Mwea Trust Lands and issue title deeds thereon to people from Embu County. This process has reportedly been completed and the County Government of Embu commenced issuance of title deeds relating to the land. This is despite the pronouncements of the Senate on the matter being; that the process be suspended pending resolutions of the boundary issue as long as there exists a valid court order stopping the process in a case followed by the County Government of Kirinyaga.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, more shocking is the fact that no less than the Chairperson of the National Land Commission, Mr. Mohamed Swazuri, has said that the process of the issuing of the said title deeds will proceed regardless of whether there is a court order in place stopping the said process. This matter is important to the people of Kirinyaga. As we speak, tension is high in the area and it is important that something is done urgently to prevent the situation from escalating further.

I, therefore, request that you direct that the Chairperson of National Land Commission appears before the relevant Committee of this House to respond to why the Commission is promoting the disregard of court orders. Further, the Chairperson should be required to explain why, instead of addressing the issue of historical land injustices meted against the people of Kirinyaga with regard with Mwea Trust Lands, the

opposite.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I also request that you direct the Standing Committee of National Security and Foreign Relations as well as the Standing Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights to urgently undertake a fact-finding mission in Mwea with a view to appreciating the nature of the conflict and making recommendations on how the same may be resolved. This matter is urgent and I request that this House intervenes to have it resolved.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I seek your directions.

Chairman of the Committee on Lands and Natural Resources, what is your take on that statement in terms of the process and the prayers being sought, and not the particulars?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the prayers being sought were in the Statement sought by Sen. Njoroge regarding the ongoing Northern Water Collector Tower, Phase One.

Order, Chair. We are yet to reach there. Sen. Karaba is asking the Committee to get hold of the Chairperson of the National Land Commission.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. We shall look into the Statement and bring an answer next week on Thursday. One week is enough.

Order, Members. I direct that the Committee looks at this Statement and gives the House an appropriate response.

Sen. Sang, do you want to comment on Sen. Karaba’s Statement?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with regard to the Statement made by Sen. Karaba, that particular Petition initially came to my Committee, the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. We are still working on the Bill on boundary review commission. However, there are some details that would make sense in the Statement captured by Sen. Karaba; that the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights Committee and Sen. Kivuti’s Committee on Lands and Natural Resources can make a fact-finding mission to the place. That element would be important. You could direct that the two Committees do a joint fact-finding mission and report to this House, because the issues raised are quite weighty. If that is granted, two weeks would be okay for the two committees to travel to the site and make some headway with regard to this issue.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, from what Sen. Karaba has raised, I am worried whether the Committee, chaired by Sen. Kivuti, is the right one to look into that matter. I think there is a conflict of interest in this matter because it concerns the people of Embu and Kirinyaga. Maybe his deputy could do better in this matter than the Chair.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I concur with my brother, Sen. Karaba, regarding the tension in Embu. As we are discussing this issue, the title deeds are being issued. I have a list that I have passed to the Chairman to prove that nothing is happening to resolve the matter. It has been left with the administrators to mess up the issue, and tension is high. Urgent measures need to be taken to stop what is happening and bring Kenyans together.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I wish to shed some little light on this matter.

Order, Chair! I was clear. Deal with the procedures and not the particulars. You can bring the particulars next week.

.Sen. Kivuti: Mr. Speaker, Sir, the little light I want to shed is not about the land, but two counties. Kirinyaga County wants to take a part of Embu County. It is a matter which I do not think the two Committees will come up with an answer to it. This is because if, at the end of the day, Kirinyaga County is given part of Embu County or even the whole of Embu County, the people who live there will still own land.

Having said that, I know that there is a matter that was brought by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. on boundaries problems between Makueni and Machakos counties and it escalated to the entire country. We need to relook into this matter from a different perspective and not whether somebody in Bungoma County got a title and Embu County wants part of Bungoma County.

I rest my case.

Order, Sen. Kivuti! You are actually making a case and not resting it.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the little light I want to shed is not about the land, but two counties. Kirinyaga County wants to take a part of Embu County. It is a matter which I do not think the two Committees will come up with an answer to it. This is because if, at the end of the day, Kirinyaga County is given part of Embu County or even the whole of Embu County, the people who live there will still own land. Having said that, I know that there is a matter that was brought by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. on boundaries problems between Makueni and Machakos counties and it escalated to the entire country. We need to relook into this matter from a different perspective and not whether somebody in Bungoma County got a title and Embu County wants part of Bungoma County. I rest my case.

Order, Sen. Kivuti! You are actually making a case and not resting it.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I just want to know whether the Senator for Embu is ceding some land of Embu County to Kirinyaga County.

next to the one who sought it.

next to the one who sought it.

actualization of this National Vision 2030 flagship project.

The Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) for the Northern Corridor Water Collector Tunnel has been undertaken, necessary public participation and public endorsements done and an Environmental Social Impact Assessment (ESIA) process successfully concluded. The National Environment Management Authority (NEMA) issued the project an environmental licence on 9th February, 2015. This was after the necessary publications in national newspapers and the Kenya Gazette as required by law. The project environmental impact assessment Report was made public as required and is still publicly available.

The Northern Corridor Water Collector Tunnel (NWCT) is designed to have intakes in three rivers that lie in the Tana River catchment area. The three rivers to be tapped are Maragua, Irati and Gikigie rivers. The three rivers combine to form Maragua River approximately 12 Kilometres downstream which subsequently flows into the Tana River upstream of Masinga Dam.

The tunnel design gives priority to downstream environmental flows and as such, there are no adverse ecological and environmental effects expected downstream. Further, hydrological studies on the NWCT 1 Project confirm that the cumulative effect of the projects on inflows at Masinga Reservoir is about 2.32 per cent.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on ground water aquifers, the tunnel will be filled will concrete line and water tight to ensure that there is no interference with the ground water aquifers. Additionally, the design ensures that the tunnel is safe in landslide areas.

During the Plenary Session, the Senators requested for the following supplementary information:-

deficit Suam/Turkwel River basin, both in Kenya.

deficit Suam/Turkwel River basin, both in Kenya.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, to comment on that, I would say that it is brilliant idea to have such a project. However, I urge the Government to extend its generosity and establish or identify a dam which will still make for the deficit if the Murang’a project does not receive excess water or overflow, so that Nairobi residents will have a very promising way of making for the deficit because at the end of the day, the residents of Nairobi want enough water.

I commend the Government for coming up with this wonderful project. However, there might be no continuity of excess water flowing because sometimes water is unpredictable. So, I encourage the Government to go an extra mile and make sure that we have a mega dam which will supply water to the Nairobians. The Government should even think of doing a borehole so that we have a very reliable source of water that will be permanent to solve the water problem in Nairobi.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you.

documents:

documents:

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the request as elegantly put by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale notwithstanding, could the Chair confirm to this House that the people of Murang’a are resenting the construction of that project? Could he also confirm or deny to this House that that project was actually inaugurated by the former Prime Minister of the Republic of Kenya, Hon. Raila Amolo Odinga?

Bw. Spika, namshukuru Mwenyekiti wa Kamati yangu kwa kusema maneno ambayo si ya kweli. Hata kama wewe ni kichaa, utajua wazi kwamba lugha iliyotumika haifanani kabisa. Itakuwaje mito mitatu inayoleta maji kwa bwawa moja ibadilishwe mikondo kisha utarajie kwamba kiwango cha maji kitakuwa sawa? Huo in uongo mtupu.

Pili, Mwenyekiti wangu hakutueleza gharama ya handaki hilo. Tulisikia kuwa itagharimu Ksh2 billion na sasa wengine wanasema itagharimu Ksh4 billion. Hajatupa ukweli wa gharama hiyo na kutuambia kwa nini imepanda.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my senior, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, has been very specific on the documents that will guide this House in executing this matter. I just want to request for provision of one more document; hat is the contract signed with the implementers of the project.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chairman has talked of the commencement date of the project but there could be a difference between the commencement date and the date which the contract was signed. It must come out clearly that on the date on which the contract was signed. Public participation should have happened, environmental impact assessment done and NEMA licenses proffered.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, a more specific question is that the project will increase the flow of water into Nairobi by the number of volumes that the Chairman has stated. Could the Chairman tell this House the plan of the project? Is it to drain water out of Nairobi?

Order, Senator, it is Statement hour. You should be seeking clarifications on that statement but not proffering examples from your own county.

Order, Senator, it is Statement hour. You should be seeking clarifications on that statement but not proffering examples from your own county.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there was a case in 1980s where water was pumped from Kilimanjaro-Loitokitok to Machakos. It was a big project that time and it was called Kilimanjaro-Machakos Water Project. A river called Nol Turesh was tapped and there were NEMA reports which were done at that time. As we speak today, that project completely changed the ecology of Oloitokitok.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to ride on the same and request the Chairman to provide to this Senate documentation to show how much water was flowing in River Nol Turesh before water was tapped. He should also tell us what happened to the people downstream and how many people downstream were affected and their lives changed completely since Kilimanjaro-Machakos Water Project was implemented.

Mr. Speaker, Sir--- Order. You should seek clarification. You have asked too many questions. I will give you one last minute.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is another clarification I would like to seek. Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki and many other engineers are here. We need a special audit on the costing of dams in this country. All of a sudden, people started talking about millions and billions for dams. It is just a matter of excavations, compaction, and grouting where you will rarely experience a hard structure down there with cracks. That is the only time you can talk of mega billions being used on dams. So, I urge this Senate to come up with either a committee or ask for a special audit to be done on huge sums of money being used on dams. Maybe some engineers could be colluding in costing the dams. I rest my case.

The Chair. Mr. Speaker, Sir, starting with Sen. Njoroge’s request, I have no quarrel with that because I know mega dams is a programme which is enshrined in the Vision 2030. I can even state that my Embu County will benefit from such dams. These projects are intended to limit the amount of water that goes to the Indian Ocean as waste. The Government intends to harness and collect all the rain water from all the mountains and valleys to the main dams.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, recently, we passed the Water Bill which has a whole section on how to deal with water collection into dams and how it will be managed to benefit Kenyans. Having said that, I think Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale really needed not a statement but attachment of the documentation such as documents of public participation and the report which was interrogated and even debated by the County Assembly of Murang’a. Maybe he might also need the HANSARD from the County Assembly of Murang’a. I do not see anything wrong with providing such documentation but I do not think it will add value to the contents of what is being reported. If so directed, the paperwork can also be availed. However, I think we need to look at the real cause and how we should address the real issue. If it is addressed equitably, there is no need of asking for bunches of papers.

Having said that, the cost---

What is it, Sen. Boy Juma Boy?

What is it, Sen. Boy Juma Boy?

Bw. Spika, Mwenyekiti anasema kuwa Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale anataka karatasi za kawaida wakati Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale ameeleza sababu maalumu. Je, ni sawa kwa Mwenyekiti kusema kwamba ni karatasi ambazo hazina maana?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order. Since the report starts from 2012, let us get the documentation from that year to-date.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on a point of order. Since the report starts from 2012, let us get the documentation from that year to-date.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, would I be in order to request the documents to be tabled also include the HANSARD report of the County Assembly of Murang’a, either approving or disapproving that project?

Proceed, Mr. Chairperson. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On the question of cost, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale wanted to be given a comparative study on how the combined cost of Kshs44.5 billion was arrived at. My concern here is when we are doing a project, we do not start by answering questions that are anticipated. Any engineer would sign a project depending on the parameters of that particular project and after the design, the project is tendered. After the tender, we expect there to have been competitive tendering process done and thereafter the implementation.

Since we know that implementation started in 2012, the documentation that would be tabled including the EIA, the report from the County Government of Murang’a and the public participation would bring out most of the answers to the questions which are being sought. Sen. (Dr.) Machage wanted to know---

Jubilee where money is concerned.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I answer that we need to do another study on comparative study on the amount of rainwater that falls in Nairobi,

I think that goes beyond the answer to the Murang’a tunnel. I will request the Senator to bring this as a substantive Motion so that we urge the Government to carry out the study and the findings would be brought to the House.

Furthermore, it should be noted that when we talk about inter-basin water transfers mainly we talk about rain water collection. All the flood water that goes to the Indian Ocean actually is what is being harvested to be channeled into a dam for future use as opposed to taking water directly from the river for direct use.

Having said that, I should also mention about whether there were any resentments as requested by Sen. (Dr.) Machage from Murang’a people. This again will come out very clearly from the reports of the County Government of

Murang’a which was discussed with the Athi Water Services Board and which eventually went for debate in the County Assembly of Murang’a. All that process will come to this House because we are going to get the documentation and it would be clear whether their issues were addressed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, on the question of whether the former Prime Minister did actually participated in the innovation of this project, I believe that he was the Prime Minister until March 2013 and all the documentation we are talking about here starts from 2012. There is another question which was raised by Sen. Boy Juma Boy. First, I am surprised you did not notice that Sen. Boy Juma Boy used very unparliamentary language saying the statement is a big lie. I do not believe that is proper and I need your indulgence.

Order, Chairperson! How can you be surprised that I did not notice? Actually, the Chair was surprised that you did not object.

Bw. Spika, kutokana na amri yako, nakubali uamuzi wako na kuyabadilisha badala ya uongo niseme si ya ukweli. Ninaomba msamaha kwa kusema uongo lakini Mwenyekiti wangu hasemi ukweli.

Sen. Boy Juma Boy, jana tulithibitisha hapa ya kwamba hakuna kabila linaitwa Swahili. Kwa hivyo, wewe nawe usitupatie Kiswahili kingi. Sikukuliza ubadilishe, tulikuambia yale uliyanena ambayo hayaambatani na

halafu uombe msamaha. Malizia hapo.

halafu uombe msamaha. Malizia hapo.

Bw. Spika. Ndivyo nilivyofanya. Nimeyameza na nikaomba msamaha. Nimesema nilikosa kuyatamka manaeno hayo. Lakini sio ukweli nimeondoa uongo na nikaweka ukweli.

Kwa hivyo, naomba msamaha kwa lugha hiyo na huo ndio ukweli wa maneno.

Bw. Spika, kwa hoja ya nidhamu: Imekuwaje leo unamuuliza Sen. Boy Juma Boy awajibike kwa matamshi yake kwa jambo ambalo limekuwa limepitwa na wakati. Hili ni jambo kulingana na mpangilio wa Kanuni za Bunge leo ilistahili kwamba Seneta Mwenyikiti asimame kwa hoja ya nidhamu wakati ule ule. Imekuwa aje umependua taratibu ya kufanya shughuli katika Bunge hili? Hatujapindua, ni matamshi Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, jambo ulilosema sio ukweli. Wakati hujapita kwa sababu Mwenyekiti alikuwa na nafasi ya kumjibu Sen. Boy Juma Boy. Wakati ungekuwa umempita kama mazungumzo hayangekuwa yanaendelea. Endelea, Mwenyekiti.

for documentation to be tabled, unless otherwise stated. The second question that he asked is how the water will be drained when it comes to Nairobi. I want to put the record straight that when we construct a dam to contain water during the rains, it does not mean that all that water is poured into Nairobi at ago. The water will be used in the normal way through taps, the same way we use it today. Due to population growth and the continuous construction of houses, the consumption of water will go high. We will not collect the water and we will pour it into Nairobi. It is clearly stated that the water is for domestic use. Since the population is growing, domestic consumption will go up.

Sen. Mositet wants to know more about Nol-Turesh and how many people were affected; I believe that this request falls outside the Statement which was sought. If Sen. Mositet could request a statement on Nol-Turesh, we will look into it and get the proper answers.

Finally, on the question of audit of dams, I find nothing wrong with auditing dams, roads, Ministries, governors and everything that is spent in Kenya. That is why we have an Auditor-General. It would be good for Kenya if a special audit was done. I have no objection to that.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if you allow me, I would like to state that I have carefully looked at all the five questions and answered them point by point, giving dates and figures, to the satisfaction of the Senator who requested for the Statement. That is not to say that other Members may not bring supplementary questions. I am ready to supply the documentations requested for.

For that reason, I think the Statement is good for this House. Order, Senators. Chairperson, I agree with you that you have responded very well, in your usual manner and you need commendation. When will you table the documents that you have promised?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, since the documents will come from various sources, I request for two weeks.

You will not manufacture the documents; it is about retrieval from the same sources which you referred to. Those documents should be tabled here on Thursday next week. You have one week to go.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to indicate that one of the questions that I asked was not responded to my satisfaction because it was misunderstood.

Sen. M. Kajwang, which one was it?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when I requested for an explanation on how the increased volumes of water coming into Nairobi would be drained out, I did not mean the simplistic explanation that the Chairperson has given.

What is the sewage plan for Nairobi that goes hand in hand with this water project that goes into Nairobi? I would be happy if that could be addressed. If it comes alongside the documents next week, I would still be happy.

Sen. M. Kajwang, you are right. The Chairperson responded that all the water will not be brought to Nairobi. However, the whole purpose of the project was to get water to Nairobi. Definitely, volume will be increased and the associated drainage would also be needed. Since we have taken a bit of time on this

dissatisfied, he can raise it again with the Chair.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am trying to look at the particular part. The Northern Collector Tunnel is not a project by itself.

Order, Chairperson. We have concluded this matter. If you feel that you need more explanation, you can share with Sen. M. Kajwang. If you will need to tell the rest of the House, you will approach the Chair and we will allocate another time. For now, I am satisfied that you have discharged your responsibility; do not spoil it.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to indicate that one of the questions that I asked was not responded to my satisfaction because it was misunderstood.

Sen. M. Kajwang, which one was it?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when I requested for an explanation on how the increased volumes of water coming into Nairobi would be drained out, I did not mean the simplistic explanation that the Chairperson has given.

What is the sewage plan for Nairobi that goes hand in hand with this water project that goes into Nairobi? I would be happy if that could be addressed. If it comes alongside the documents next week, I would still be happy.

Sen. M. Kajwang, you are right. The Chairperson responded that all the water will not be brought to Nairobi. However, the whole purpose of the project was to get water to Nairobi. Definitely, volume will be increased and the associated drainage would also be needed. Since we have taken a bit of time on this

dissatisfied, he can raise it again with the Chair.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am trying to look at the particular part. The Northern Collector Tunnel is not a project by itself.

Order, Chairperson. We have concluded this matter. If you feel that you need more explanation, you can share with Sen. M. Kajwang. If you will need to tell the rest of the House, you will approach the Chair and we will allocate another time. For now, I am satisfied that you have discharged your responsibility; do not spoil it.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Allow me to thank the Senate Majority Leader for the Statement he has issued.

Order, Senators. If Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. could learn from Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, it is good to appreciate first before you raise the pending matters.

ends on 1st December, 2016. So, we have less than three weeks to do what we must.

Thank you once more, and I wish you a good weekend ahead. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is a pending issue. There are three constitutional Bills which require 45 Members. We thought that today would be the day to make that pronouncement as to the upcoming business and the day that you have designated specifically for that. Unless we do so, we will go into the session that the Majority Leader has mentioned without voting. We agreed that to achieve that objective is itself a herculean task.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Allow me to thank the Senate Majority Leader for the Statement he has issued.

Order, Senators. If Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. could learn from Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, it is good to appreciate first before you raise the pending matters.

same; that America is prioritized on this?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am guided from your directions. I was just concluding by congratulating Mr. Donald Trump for winning this historic election. I also want to congratulate Hillary Clinton for the big fight that she put up.

I want to use this opportunity to sound a soft warning to the media of the world, including the Kenyan media and the pollsters that they have to remain within the ambit of their mandate. The media is not expected to create news; it is expected to report in events that become news. Yesterday, even before the election was over The Standard Newspaper, on its front page, announced to this country that Hillary Clinton was the next President of the United States of America.

Polling companies also made the same error. We must take this as an opportunity to learn that polling companies are not always correct and that not everything that we read in the media is correct.

Finally, allow me to congratulate the First Lady in waiting, Melania Trump, for the fantastic role that she played in managing the campaign of Donald Trump.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, just to ask for guidance from you on whether Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale was speaking on behalf of the Opposition or the Senate. If that is the case, will this matter be debated by the whole House or we assume what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has represented the entire Senate and the country?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you may wish to clarify in what capacity you were speaking.

same; that America is prioritized on this?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am guided from your directions. I was just concluding by congratulating Mr. Donald Trump for winning this historic election. I also want to congratulate Hillary Clinton for the big fight that she put up.

I want to use this opportunity to sound a soft warning to the media of the world, including the Kenyan media and the pollsters that they have to remain within the ambit of their mandate. The media is not expected to create news; it is expected to report in events that become news. Yesterday, even before the election was over The Standard Newspaper, on its front page, announced to this country that Hillary Clinton was the next President of the United States of America.

Polling companies also made the same error. We must take this as an opportunity to learn that polling companies are not always correct and that not everything that we read in the media is correct.

Finally, allow me to congratulate the First Lady in waiting, Melania Trump, for the fantastic role that she played in managing the campaign of Donald Trump.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, just to ask for guidance from you on whether Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale was speaking on behalf of the Opposition or the Senate. If that is the case, will this matter be debated by the whole House or we assume what Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale has represented the entire Senate and the country?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you may wish to clarify in what capacity you were speaking.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when I rose, I just rose as a Senator of the Republic of Kenya. It is a fact that I do not hold any office in this Senate. Therefore, I could not possibly speak on behalf of the Senate. However, as a Member of the Opposition, I was expressing our surprise that the Government of Kenya has not hailed the victory by Donald Trump.

On a point of information, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, do you wish to be informed by Sen. (Dr.) Machage?

including Kenya. So, there is no doubt about that one.

My problem with him is that he was trying to fault the Senate Majority Leader when the mandate of the Senate Majority Leader was just to give a statement on business of the week for the Senate. So, he is perfectly in order to raise that particular matter. We may also wish to guide him and, perhaps, given the other perspective – given the mood of the House yesterday, which I had to work very hard to restrain by invoking orders of anticipating debate – you may wish to also give the other side. However, that is not an invitation for you to comment because you have the right to remain silent.

On that basis, Sen. G.G. Kariuki, the Senate has not made a decision on this matter. There is no need for such a decision. It is really up to the Members individually, collectively or as a political party to express their views. They will just remain as views. That is the way I dispose of that issue.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me remind Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale that in the 2013 General Election, the polling was showing the CORD party was leading. So, what happened in USA is nothing very radical. It happens.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to discuss the outcome of the elections of the USA before the matter is introduced to this House through a Motion? I need clarification.

Order, Members! Sen. G.G. Kariuki and Sen. Chelule have wondered whether Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, was in order to express his views on the election on the President elect of USA and whether the Government had given a congratulatory message and in which capacity. Indeed, he has confirmed that he was speaking as the Senator for Kakamega County in the Senate of the Republic of Kenya. Speaking during Statement Hour, it is proper that a Member can raise an issue that he

including Kenya. So, there is no doubt about that one.

My problem with him is that he was trying to fault the Senate Majority Leader when the mandate of the Senate Majority Leader was just to give a statement on business of the week for the Senate. So, he is perfectly in order to raise that particular matter. We may also wish to guide him and, perhaps, given the other perspective – given the mood of the House yesterday, which I had to work very hard to restrain by invoking orders of anticipating debate – you may wish to also give the other side. However, that is not an invitation for you to comment because you have the right to remain silent.

On that basis, Sen. G.G. Kariuki, the Senate has not made a decision on this matter. There is no need for such a decision. It is really up to the Members individually, collectively or as a political party to express their views. They will just remain as views. That is the way I dispose of that issue.

useful for us to give some guidelines on how long a statement should take? We have that for petitions and Bills, but not for statements. You could do so under Standing Order No.1.

Order, Sen. M. Kajwang’! It is obvious that chairpersons will usually ask for two weeks. So, that is already appreciated. It is a standard practice or procedure in the Government and I do not expect any less. So, your statement should appear on the Order Paper on Tuesday, next week. I expect the Chairperson and the Vice Chairperson of that Committee to be present.

On the other matter raised by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. in terms of getting quorum for the divisions on constitutional Bills, I wish to direct, and Senate Majority Leader and Opposition Whip, you better be listening.

Which Statement?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Statement (f) . It came to this House in March. To date, eight months later, a response has not been given. Could you guide us in the spirt of being dutiful, expeditious and useful to the citizens of this nation? When a

useful for us to give some guidelines on how long a statement should take? We have that for petitions and Bills, but not for statements. You could do so under Standing Order No.1.

Order, Sen. M. Kajwang’! It is obvious that chairpersons will usually ask for two weeks. So, that is already appreciated. It is a standard practice or procedure in the Government and I do not expect any less. So, your statement should appear on the Order Paper on Tuesday, next week. I expect the Chairperson and the Vice Chairperson of that Committee to be present.

On the other matter raised by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. in terms of getting quorum for the divisions on constitutional Bills, I wish to direct, and Senate Majority Leader and Opposition Whip, you better be listening.

Mr. Chairman, Sir, although the Bill is sponsored by Sen. Hassan, the amendments are by the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. I and

Mr. Chairman, Sir, I confirm that when we discussed the matrix of the amendments to this Bill, Sen. Hassan was present and agreed to the proposed amendments. There are some we disagreed but they are not on the Order Paper. However, he agreed to these proposed amendments.

Yesterday, we voted on a Bill on whose amendments I proposed but were moved by a different Senator. Therefore, the practice in the Committee of the Whole must be consistent because another Member moved the amendments on my behalf. I did not give any written consent but the amendments were moved on the County Outdoor Advertising Control Bill. It is fair that you direct.

Thank you. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. (Dr.) Machage): This is my ruling. I believe in the orthodox way of looking at our Constitution and the Standing Orders. I also believe in tradition when it comes to matters of running the House of Parliament. I have only one obligation and one way to solve this. That is to order that Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. reports progress on this.

So, can you approach the Chair? We will now have to report progress. Mr. Chairman, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No. 139, I beg to move:-

THAT the Committee of the Whole reports progress on the consideration of The Preservation of Human Dignity and Enforcement of Economic and Social Rights Bill.

Mr. Chairman, Sir, I totally agree with your ruling but I do not know whether it makes any difference in this case because Sen. Hassan is a Member of the Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights. He agreed with the amendments we proposed to move because we adopted the amendments as a Committee. The principle is that the sponsor of the Bill ought to be present. However, we will have no objections with any guidance that you will give. The Temporary Chairperson (

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report progress that the Committee of the Whole has considered The Preservation of Human Dignity and Enforcement of the Economic and Social Rights Bill (Senate Bill No.8 of 2015) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I second.

Very well. Next Order .

Hon. Senators, with regard to Order No.9 I am informed that although the Mover of the Bill is here, the Standing Committee on Agriculture had requested that this be stood over to next week. We will, therefore, defer the Order.

What is it, Sen. Kittony? On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. If the Chairperson is not in, I do not think it is fair for him to request for it to be deferred again. If at all he has requested, then he should be here. This Bill has been here from 2015. It has taken a long time. If at all it has to be deferred, I would like it to be dealt with it within next week, but not longer than that.

And three, do you have any written document directing that you lead in the moving of the amendments on his behalf?

Mr. Chairman, Sir, the third is straight forward. If you look at the notices for amendments, it reads:- “NOTICE is given that Sen. Amos Wako, the Chairperson to the Standing Committee on Legal Affairs and Human Rights, intends to move the following amendments to the Preservation of Human Dignity and the Enforcement of Economic and Social Rights Bill, 2015, at the Committee Stage.” Mr. Chairman, Sir, for your information, I am the Vice Chair and therefore--- The Temporary Chairperson (

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, most obliged. I had also consulted the Speaker when I realised that there was lobbying.

The notice did not say the “Chair”. It is specific to Sen. Wako. To my knowledge, you do not share that name at all either as a sibling, a brother or a son.

Mr. Chairman, Sir, I agree. However, the title is the Chairperson of the Committee. I cannot confirm that Sen. Hassan was present in the meeting.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stand corrected if you so find. My understanding is that when this Bill is called out, the most responsible person is the Mover, Sen. Omondi. If in the process she then reports to this House that the Bill had gone to the Committee, she has reasons to believe that the Committee is either improving or concurring with it. Then she would like to wait for the Committee to come and so say, then it is when we will defer it.

Hon. Senators, indeed, what Sen. Khalwale is saying is true. However, you will note that we have proposed Committee amendments by Sen. Madzayo. This Bill is coming for the first time on the Order Paper for Committee of the Whole with those amendments. I appreciate the concerns made by the Mover of the Bill. I direct that this appears in the Order Paper next week. If the Chairperson will not be present in the House to move those amendments, then we will have no option other than to drop amendments and we proceed with the Bill as it were. I, therefore, direct that.

We will defer Order Nos.11 and 12. Second Readings

This is my ruling. I believe in the orthodox way of looking at our Constitution and the Standing Orders. I also believe in tradition when it comes to matters of running the House of Parliament. I have only one obligation and one way to solve this. That is to order that Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. reports progress on this.So, can you approach the Chair? We will now have to report progress. Mr. Chairman, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No. 139, I beg to move:-THAT the Committee of the Whole reports progress on the consideration of The Preservation of Human Dignity and Enforcement of Economic and Social Rights Bill.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to report progress that the Committee of the Whole has considered The Preservation of Human Dignity and Enforcement of the Economic and Social Rights Bill (Senate Bill No.8 of 2015) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report.

amendments to the Statistics Act. My reasoning is that it would be important to harmonize how all our counties will be collecting statistics. For example, Samburu, Makueni and Nandi counties should have a uniform way of collecting statistics. To ensure uniformity in how our counties will keep records on the devolved functions, it is important that we, as the Senate, agree on a certain way of collecting this information. It is important to have a framework of how we will collect statistics and disseminate information in our counties.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is also important to have a separate office from the executive, so that we give sensitive matters autonomy to avoid manipulation and have factual information.

The reason many Kenyans passed the Constitution in 2010 and embraced devolution was to ensure that resources trickle down to the public. Counties are divided into wards and sub-counties so as to ensure that the funds and the services are accessible to all. Probably, resources go down to the counties, but they do not reach some sub- counties and wards. Through this Bill, those who will be entrusted with that responsibility will show us how the resources have been utilised in the various sub- counties, wards and how members of the public are accessing services at the county level.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is also the issue of the independence of the office of the statistician to ensure that there is no manipulation from the executive.

When we were doing public participation, there was concern from the national Government on the existence of a Ministry which is already responsible for planning and development at the national level. We also have the Kenya National Bureau of Statistics (KNBS) which is supposed to do this. I think there was wisdom in those who put it under Schedule 4(2) and say it becomes a county function. We need to keep eyes on what is happening in our counties especially on the functions that have been devolved. We are not saying that we taken away the work of KNBS but we need to know and get information on the matters that have already been devolved and this office will be responsible for doing the same.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is also the same structure we have taken that we already have the Ministry of Devolution and Planning which is there in the national Government but we still have KNBS which goes ahead to deal with issues on statistics. One of the things that we need is for this information to get to the people so that members of the public can access it.

We know that as much as we have KNBS in the form that we have embraced devolution, in their mandate, it is not expressed how they should be dealing with county matters. That is what this Bill will be looking at and the whole factor of access to information. It is important that as we devolve functions and resources, information should be devolved to the public so that it does not end at the national level. Sometimes accessing information at the national level continues to be a challenge. One of the things that this Bill will look at is ensuring information is readily accessible.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, having taken into consideration some of the concerns that the national Government has in matters statistics and how we both share it, the Bill has taken that into consideration to ensure that the County Statistics Office and

Very well. Next Order .

Hon. Senators, with regard to Order No.9 I am informed that although the Mover of the Bill is here, the Standing Committee on Agriculture had requested that this be stood over to next week. We will, therefore, defer the Order.

What is it, Sen. Kittony? On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. If the Chairperson is not in, I do not think it is fair for him to request for it to be deferred again. If at all he has requested, then he should be here. This Bill has been here from 2015. It has taken a long time. If at all it has to be deferred, I would like it to be dealt with it within next week, but not longer than that.

Order, Sen. Kittony! Order, Sen. Murungi, the Chairperson, Standing Committee on Agriculture. We have the National Cereals and Produce Board (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No.15 before us. While your Vice-Chairperson was in the House acting on your behalf, there were consultations between her and the Chair. The Chair granted a request by the Committee on Agriculture that this be deferred to next week. Therefore, Sen. Kittony, it is being deferred not indefinitely, but to next week. This was a decision that was made by the Chair, and I am inclined to give the same directive. So, it is deferred to next week.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, most obliged. I had also consulted the Speaker when I realised that there was lobbying.

Sen. Lesuuda, who are “we”?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we know how we operate in coming up with a Bill. So, I am still thinking that I am engaging with the many others that we sat to deliberate on this matter and even at the level of public participation with the Committee. However, I am so guided. It is my Bill.

I was at the point of how best the national and county governments will share this information and ensure there is consultation between the two levels of Government. It

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I stand corrected if you so find. My understanding is that when this Bill is called out, the most responsible person is the Mover, Sen. Omondi. If in the process she then reports to this House that the Bill had gone to the Committee, she has reasons to believe that the Committee is either improving or concurring with it. Then she would like to wait for the Committee to come and so say, then it is when we will defer it.

Hon. Senators, indeed, what Sen. Khalwale is saying is true. However, you will note that we have proposed Committee amendments by Sen. Madzayo. This Bill is coming for the first time on the Order Paper for Committee of the Whole with those amendments. I appreciate the concerns made by the Mover of the Bill. I direct that this appears in the Order Paper next week. If the Chairperson will not be present in the House to move those amendments, then we will have no option other than to drop amendments and we proceed with the Bill as it were. I, therefore, direct that.

We will defer Order Nos.11 and 12. Second Readings

Printers Bill which has been opposed by everybody. The reason is they want all of us to bring our budgets, our legislation, notices about cattle rustling and everything else to the Government Printer in Nairobi. That is not devolution. Therefore, Sen. Lesuuda I plead with you, please, do not even acknowledge these people who are trying to impede on what you have proposed here. If counties have not been collecting data for the last three years, we should ensure as a Senate that the next county governments can actually have planning best on this.

If you look at the County Governments Act, we have proposed that counties would come up with cities. This is special planning. In the Urban Cities Act, we have redefined this. There was a Bill in the Senate about the number of population that you can name a city or urban town in county. How do you do that? Are we going to wait for a census every 10 years to determine what we should do? Do we have to wait for national Government to plan or to tell us how many mothers have delivered for free maternal healthcare so that then you can make planning in your counties? This is not possible.

Sen. Lesuuda, please, wish these people well. These things are extremely important. You must ask yourself; how have people been planning without this? You sit on a table like you are under a tree like the way we divide the national cake, you say have this, the other one have this and there is no formula. Committees have been proposed here and if there was a function just like the function of health, Sen. Lesuuda mentioned in Article 6(2), I would add Article 189: Cooperation and Coordination.

If there was a part where you need to coordinate by the time you are doing a census, the national Government should be relying on the data collected at the county level. You do not need to bother everybody with huge budgets for nothing. You would rely on that information so that year in, year out, we can stop this national obsession with census every 10 years. It is a national obsession for nothing. By devolving this work will help the country, in fact, to plan in future. How do you plan in future? You can see what Elgeyo-Marakwet is doing in terms of how many babies they are delivering. What do you do in terms of Early Childhood Development (ECD) classes? There was a complaint in some counties like Murang’a that the ECD classes have closed because there are no babies being born as they have been drinking illegal alcohol. So that will help.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, therefore, in terms delivery of services, ensuring that we plan our finances well and making sure that we are prudent, we will actually be asking our county governors to account in terms of planning with statistics. You allocated a borehole to a place where there was no water and you knew it. You went to dig a borehole where it does not deserve, but where there are more boreholes than they need because you wanted political support and you omitted where it was needed most. That is the purpose of statistics. Therefore, instead of challenging people using abstract information, what Sen. Lesuuda has proposed is that, in future, we would be asking them,“this ward has “x” number of population, it has “x” number of boreholes and you have only done one as opposed to two or three.” That is the purpose of statistics.

One of the things that Transition Authority (TA) did not do is that all the data that was collected by the former urban councils and town councils was kept in a room where

Even in the collection of statistics, you end up collecting data. I visited the British Library and wondered how the hand written statement of Isaac Newton ended up in their library. They called every person who had something historical or a small writing to deposit it with them. If a person has something historical, for example, the history of where the Bible begun, he or she should bring it to us and we will store it at a fee. That is the purpose of collecting data.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in future, somebody would want to learn how certain things happened in your Nandi County. It is possible that there is some information that you are not aware of. The collection of data and records in the manner proposed by Sen. Lesuuda will help both the national Government and county governments to plan how many secondary schools they should give money and how free primary education funds should be distributed.

In an attempt by Cabinet Secretary, hon. Keter, to distribute the Last Mile Connectivity Project, one of the things he is relying on is population and how to send electricity where there are 50 or more people. This information would be important if it was available at the county level so that as they continue to distribute electricity to the lowest point, to every person and to the last mile, they will be able to give us tangible information that is reliable, accountable and truthful.

I beg to second.

the national and county governments at Part IV of the Fourth Schedule to the Constitution, consultation and cooperation between the two levels of government on all matters to do with statistics is also required. The Bill has taken care of that.

When I go into the details of the Bill later, we will see how they will be cooperating and sharing information. It is necessary and required under Article 6 (2) of the Constitution which provides that the governments at the national and county levels conduct their mutual relations on the basis of consultation and cooperation.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is also the issue of Clause 13 of the Bill. When I go into its details later, we are going to look at how the issue of consultation and cooperation will be taking place at the county and national levels. If I go to the content of the Bill, I hope you can enrich this Bill as we go into the debate and the Committee of the Whole on how best we can empower this office so that it serves the purpose that is intended.

As I had earlier said, the County Statistics Office will be responsible for collecting, compiling, analyzing, extracting and disseminating statistical information on the matter set out in Part 2 of the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution so that we are specific that it is on the functions that have been devolved. That is what this office will be looking at.

The other issue is maintaining a comprehensive and reliable social economic database. We need to be scientific to know how our counties are doing since we devolved our funds and the devolved functions when we passed the Constitution. We had been saying that the counties that had been marginalized for a long time – with the assumption and it could be true – because all resources and systems were based at the Central Government. We want to see how the social aspects of the people in our counties have changed. How have our counties’ economies changed? It is only through this database that we will know.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the other one is ensuring coordination of the operations of official bodies in the county in the compilation and dissemination of statistics and related information with particular regard to the avoidance and duplication in the collection of statistical information so that you do not go to the Ministry of Health in the county and they give you their own information. They tell you maternal health has improved in our county since we devolved health. You go to the Ministry of Water and Irrigation, they will tell you that they have improved. I do not think any Ministry in the counties or the national Government would want to give you the negative statistics from their various Ministries. That is why it is important that they work in consultation with this office. This Bill anticipates them to execute their mandate without interference from the county executive, to give the correct information on what is happening in the counties.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the other one is the attainment of compatibility and the integration of statistics compiled by official bodies. This office will collect information that has been compiled by other official bodies to a central place. It is important that we get all official communication from this office.

What might be exciting the Senator for Elgeyo-Marakwet?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, many things that are not worth mentioning before this honourable House.

Very well. You are protected.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Murkomen, what is your point of order?

that these fears and aspects are taken care of. It will consist of:-

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not know.

Printers Bill which has been opposed by everybody. The reason is they want all of us to bring our budgets, our legislation, notices about cattle rustling and everything else to the Government Printer in Nairobi. That is not devolution. Therefore, Sen. Lesuuda I plead with you, please, do not even acknowledge these people who are trying to impede on what you have proposed here. If counties have not been collecting data for the last three years, we should ensure as a Senate that the next county governments can actually have planning best on this.

If you look at the County Governments Act, we have proposed that counties would come up with cities. This is special planning. In the Urban Cities Act, we have redefined this. There was a Bill in the Senate about the number of population that you can name a city or urban town in county. How do you do that? Are we going to wait for a census every 10 years to determine what we should do? Do we have to wait for national Government to plan or to tell us how many mothers have delivered for free maternal healthcare so that then you can make planning in your counties? This is not possible.

Sen. Lesuuda, please, wish these people well. These things are extremely important. You must ask yourself; how have people been planning without this? You sit on a table like you are under a tree like the way we divide the national cake, you say have this, the other one have this and there is no formula. Committees have been proposed here and if there was a function just like the function of health, Sen. Lesuuda mentioned in Article 6(2), I would add Article 189: Cooperation and Coordination.

If there was a part where you need to coordinate by the time you are doing a census, the national Government should be relying on the data collected at the county level. You do not need to bother everybody with huge budgets for nothing. You would rely on that information so that year in, year out, we can stop this national obsession with census every 10 years. It is a national obsession for nothing. By devolving this work will help the country, in fact, to plan in future. How do you plan in future? You can see what Elgeyo-Marakwet is doing in terms of how many babies they are delivering. What do you do in terms of Early Childhood Development (ECD) classes? There was a complaint in some counties like Murang’a that the ECD classes have closed because there are no babies being born as they have been drinking illegal alcohol. So that will help.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, therefore, in terms delivery of services, ensuring that we plan our finances well and making sure that we are prudent, we will actually be asking our county governors to account in terms of planning with statistics. You allocated a borehole to a place where there was no water and you knew it. You went to dig a borehole where it does not deserve, but where there are more boreholes than they need because you wanted political support and you omitted where it was needed most. That is the purpose of statistics. Therefore, instead of challenging people using abstract information, what Sen. Lesuuda has proposed is that, in future, we would be asking them,“this ward has “x” number of population, it has “x” number of boreholes and you have only done one as opposed to two or three.” That is the purpose of statistics.

One of the things that Transition Authority (TA) did not do is that all the data that was collected by the former urban councils and town councils was kept in a room where

Even in the collection of statistics, you end up collecting data. I visited the British Library and wondered how the hand written statement of Isaac Newton ended up in their library. They called every person who had something historical or a small writing to deposit it with them. If a person has something historical, for example, the history of where the Bible begun, he or she should bring it to us and we will store it at a fee. That is the purpose of collecting data.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in future, somebody would want to learn how certain things happened in your Nandi County. It is possible that there is some information that you are not aware of. The collection of data and records in the manner proposed by Sen. Lesuuda will help both the national Government and county governments to plan how many secondary schools they should give money and how free primary education funds should be distributed.

In an attempt by Cabinet Secretary, hon. Keter, to distribute the Last Mile Connectivity Project, one of the things he is relying on is population and how to send electricity where there are 50 or more people. This information would be important if it was available at the county level so that as they continue to distribute electricity to the lowest point, to every person and to the last mile, they will be able to give us tangible information that is reliable, accountable and truthful.

I beg to second.

and manage it like an estate. They would not be facing the kind of challenges they are facing today. These are retrogressive cultural practices that can only be challenged by statistics. When we present the figures to the citizens, they educate them.

With the establishment of the office of the County Statistician, they will be to understand these figures. One of the things that I have been asking myself is that, each year as we read the Budget and Treasury releases the reports of our Gross Domestic Product (GDP); by what figure the economy is growing and what our inflation rate is. When shall we get such figures for counties? By and large, we need to get to a point where governors cannot be assessed by the number of classrooms they have built but they will be asked how much economic growth they have brought to the county. These are not things you will be able to do as county governments are set up right now. When you have good and proper statistics, you will know how much revenue has been generated from a particular county and what the economic value of a certain county is and how much the economy of that county has grown during the tenure of a particular individual. Has he spurred growth or not? Abstract feelings where you say somebody has failed or succeeded depending on your own perceptions will be a thing of the past. Thanks to the good intentions of this Bill.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is something I feel it will be wrong if I complete my contribution without mentioning it. Politically motivated development agenda will be a thing of the past with the passing of this Bill. You will be able to question a governor and ride on particular information that is readily available to you. You can ask them why they want to sink a borehole in an area that does not need such kind of a facility. Sometimes leadership comes with sacrifice and as a leader, you need to do something that is not popular but you know for posterity, this is the right thing to do. If we have these statistics, it will become easy for us to do it. If we do not have the statistics available, somebody will make a decision because he feels that is the popular thing. If I take the county budget and say I want to empower the youth and women and split the budget half, dish out money and things like that, that will be unfortunate.

For those many reasons, I do support.

Very well. Sen. Omondi!

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to add my voice to this important Bill. I can say it is timely and I want to congratulate Sen. Lesuuda for coming up with such a Bill.

I have been asking myself so many questions about having data on disability within our counties. I will ask her if I can come up with an amendment or she includes this in this Bill that when carrying out the exercise of statistics, mapping and coming up with the number of people in the counties, it should have a column that reads that the number of people with disabilities in that area and the type of disability.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the reason why I have passion for that to be included is because it is going to give room for proper planning where persons with disabilities within counties can benefit from the planning depending on the type of disability and their needs will be reached. It is also going to help people with disabilities within the counties to get their share in terms of budgeting. Right now, what is happening is that

carried for persons with disabilities. They imagine that the only thing they can do is to budget for wheelchairs without considering that not all persons with disabilities require wheelchairs. If they give wheelchairs, they also need to add dignity to that person in terms of economic empowerment. They still have to map and come up with proper programmes and projects that can lift the economic stability of persons with disabilities.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to support this Bill because I know it is going to help us have peace in our counties and the country as a whole. It is going to reduce unequal distribution of resources where a certain section of the county is getting a huge amount of money without considering how big that ward is or how densely populated it is. I want to cite an example where when the country was mapping for cash transfer to vulnerable persons, that 50 per cent was to go to the mentally challenged people within the society. It was unfortunate that some areas were not properly budgeted for. This is because causes of disability depend on the environment. Some areas are more susceptible to particular disability than others. For example, Teso area in Busia County is highly populated with the visually impaired persons. Kakamega County is highly populated with physically disabled persons and there are reasons why such types of disabilities are found in such areas.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when they were budgeting for sunscreen lotions for persons with albinism, in Nandi County, people who benefited from that fund were not persons with albinism because it is not highly populated. So, it helps in meaningful budgeting and putting proper programmes in place according to the needs of the people.

I also support simply because it will reduce the issue of giving programmes where they are not necessary. So, budget allocation will be according to the size and population of the ward or county. A ward can be big, but not highly populated. If we give an equal share, then the densely populated wards or counties will benefit less than the scarcely populated ones.

I believe that when we have such an exercise---

Sen. Bule, are you on a point of order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, no.

Then you need to press the right button.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it will help us do away with the issue of rigging elections. This is because we will have information on how many people died within the ward or county and, therefore, eliminate ghost voters. There will be statistics simplified to the point where it can be accessed and understood by the people within a specific area. Kenyans will not need to plan long journeys to Nairobi County to access the needed statistics.

Service delivery and efficiency will also be improved in terms of people who want to know the population of a particular area. In service delivery, it will help us provide services according to the population and the needs of the people within an area. I believe that these needs can be well addressed if we know and interact with them. We can then plan, map and reach out to them, not only by having figures on papers, but also going there physically to ascertain that these are the people that reside in that particular area.

What song did he mimic?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not know.

Proceed, Sen. Cheruiyot. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was talking about data driven policy as a standard for management in this day and age where figures that are presented are analyzed before making an informed decision. This Bill puts us squarely in an open and lovely manner that upon the successful completion of this exercise, the decision makers and the people who will be given the mandate to lead the county governments will have figures to rely on when making decisions.

Immediately after I was elected, I wanted to run a programme on youth empowerment in my county, which was one of the key pillars of my manifesto. I walked into the county government offices and requested for figures and statistics on the number of unemployed youth in my county and their level of education. It is unfortunate that even after seeking the same information from the social services office which is under the national Government, I still could not get the figures. I kept wondering what I could do. Today, I am fortunate that with the passing of this Bill in the Senate, nobody will ever struggle with such situations. For example, in Kericho County, the county that I represent, the budgetary allocation is shared by the number of wards yet all wards are not the same. In certain wards, the biggest problem the citizenry face is water and in other wards, it is access to good roads. Unfortunately, due to politics, Members of County Assembly (MCAs) do not want to go back and face their electorate to explain to them that they were given less money for water because they conceded part of the budgetary allocation, for example, road network to be given more funding. They cannot explain this if they do not have the kind of statistics that will be brought forth upon the successful passing of this Bill.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, once we have such statistics, it will no longer be difficult for MCAs to face their electorate and explain why they have conceded to use the amount of money that was to be used for water services and traded it off with an increase in the amount for infrastructure development because he or she knows that the biggest challenge his or her own ward faces is road network as opposed to water.

As things stand today, simple calculations on what the executive has proposed as the budget for road network in the county is done. For example, if it is Kshs800 million, it is divided by the number of wards without due considerations.

You seem to have a lot of information about Senators that might not be in the public domain.

and manage it like an estate. They would not be facing the kind of challenges they are facing today. These are retrogressive cultural practices that can only be challenged by statistics. When we present the figures to the citizens, they educate them.

With the establishment of the office of the County Statistician, they will be to understand these figures. One of the things that I have been asking myself is that, each year as we read the Budget and Treasury releases the reports of our Gross Domestic Product (GDP); by what figure the economy is growing and what our inflation rate is. When shall we get such figures for counties? By and large, we need to get to a point where governors cannot be assessed by the number of classrooms they have built but they will be asked how much economic growth they have brought to the county. These are not things you will be able to do as county governments are set up right now. When you have good and proper statistics, you will know how much revenue has been generated from a particular county and what the economic value of a certain county is and how much the economy of that county has grown during the tenure of a particular individual. Has he spurred growth or not? Abstract feelings where you say somebody has failed or succeeded depending on your own perceptions will be a thing of the past. Thanks to the good intentions of this Bill.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is something I feel it will be wrong if I complete my contribution without mentioning it. Politically motivated development agenda will be a thing of the past with the passing of this Bill. You will be able to question a governor and ride on particular information that is readily available to you. You can ask them why they want to sink a borehole in an area that does not need such kind of a facility. Sometimes leadership comes with sacrifice and as a leader, you need to do something that is not popular but you know for posterity, this is the right thing to do. If we have these statistics, it will become easy for us to do it. If we do not have the statistics available, somebody will make a decision because he feels that is the popular thing. If I take the county budget and say I want to empower the youth and women and split the budget half, dish out money and things like that, that will be unfortunate.

For those many reasons, I do support.

that are undertaken by the executive in our counties. We need to support such ideas so as to free our people. One of the regional directors in the northern region in 1963 wrote a memo that the northern region is nothing except problems. It has never been included in the development programme of the nation. He said that north eastern part of this country is not meant for development. That is how marginalisation came in Kenya. So, this is the time that some of the marginalised counties like Tana River can get credible statistics and plan for the development of their areas.

With the few remarks, I support. Thank you.

There being no other interest to contribute, I ask the Mover can reply.

carried for persons with disabilities. They imagine that the only thing they can do is to budget for wheelchairs without considering that not all persons with disabilities require wheelchairs. If they give wheelchairs, they also need to add dignity to that person in terms of economic empowerment. They still have to map and come up with proper programmes and projects that can lift the economic stability of persons with disabilities.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I want to support this Bill because I know it is going to help us have peace in our counties and the country as a whole. It is going to reduce unequal distribution of resources where a certain section of the county is getting a huge amount of money without considering how big that ward is or how densely populated it is. I want to cite an example where when the country was mapping for cash transfer to vulnerable persons, that 50 per cent was to go to the mentally challenged people within the society. It was unfortunate that some areas were not properly budgeted for. This is because causes of disability depend on the environment. Some areas are more susceptible to particular disability than others. For example, Teso area in Busia County is highly populated with the visually impaired persons. Kakamega County is highly populated with physically disabled persons and there are reasons why such types of disabilities are found in such areas.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when they were budgeting for sunscreen lotions for persons with albinism, in Nandi County, people who benefited from that fund were not persons with albinism because it is not highly populated. So, it helps in meaningful budgeting and putting proper programmes in place according to the needs of the people.

I also support simply because it will reduce the issue of giving programmes where they are not necessary. So, budget allocation will be according to the size and population of the ward or county. A ward can be big, but not highly populated. If we give an equal share, then the densely populated wards or counties will benefit less than the scarcely populated ones.

I believe that when we have such an exercise---

Sen. Bule, are you on a point of order?

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30p.m., time to interrupt the business of the Senate. The Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday, 15th November, 2016 at 2.30p.m.

The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.

Then you need to press the right button.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it will help us do away with the issue of rigging elections. This is because we will have information on how many people died within the ward or county and, therefore, eliminate ghost voters. There will be statistics simplified to the point where it can be accessed and understood by the people within a specific area. Kenyans will not need to plan long journeys to Nairobi County to access the needed statistics.

Service delivery and efficiency will also be improved in terms of people who want to know the population of a particular area. In service delivery, it will help us provide services according to the population and the needs of the people within an area. I believe that these needs can be well addressed if we know and interact with them. We can then plan, map and reach out to them, not only by having figures on papers, but also going there physically to ascertain that these are the people that reside in that particular area.

ask for our share from counties knowing the number of PWDs within that county. We will argue our case according to the statistics unlike today where we just receive whatever they feel like giving us. In fact, they do not even budget for PWDs. Somebody can even argue how we know if there are PWDs within a county or a ward. However, if you have proper records, you will have the right information that will help enrich your argument in order to meet the needs of PWDs.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. mentioned something to do with boreholes. When I compare us to developed countries like Japan, Japan will initiate a programme after knowing how many PWDs come from an area so that they dig it close to where they live for them to benefit. Those who are not disabled can walk long distances to access certain facilities. For example, you can find a borehole in a specific area, but the distance between that facility and a resident who has a disability is short. Such statistics will also help in making an informed decision on how to make a borehole disability friendly such that a person on a wheelchair can use it just like any other normal person.

I use Japan because I went there to learn independent living by a PWD. Things were easy because mapping is done. For example, when it comes to public transport, they know the route that connects to a household of a PWD. So, it becomes easier for such a person to access transport. When it comes to health facilities, they map and give every PWD a toll free number that they can call whenever there is need for health services. With such statistics, we will improve service delivery to our people.

With those many or few remarks, I support.

Very well. I will give the Floor to Sen. Murkomen. However, Sen. Bule, you are behaving as if you have intentions to contribute, but you are not appearing on the screen. The last time you appeared on interventions. I hope my reading of your demeanor is wrong that you do not intend to contribute because you are not appearing on my screen. If you do, then press the right button.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, first, I congratulate my friend, Sen. Lesuuda, for coming up with such an important Bill. Many people refuse or forget that the Constitution is very specific on Part 2 of the Fourth Schedule, that statistics matters are county matters. This was not by accident.

Part 2, Paragraph 8 of the Constitution says:- “County planning and development, including –

You seem to have a lot of information about Senators that might not be in the public domain.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am happy today. First, I congratulate Sen. Lesuuda for coming up with this fantastic Bill which is an eye opener to our people in the counties. This is wonderful law if the Senate passes it. The best Bill that this House passed is the famous Sen. Sang’s Bill which was sponsored by you. However, it was shelved. The other is this Bill sponsored by Sen. Lesuuda.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the statistics that will be collected at the county level will be the truth if collected correctly. In the last census, the statistics that were collected and which we use to share the resources are false. The information was deceitful. In fact, we fail to plan but we do not plan to fail. This is the only way we can plan for our counties. This Bill will ease the misuse and misappropriation of funds. It will even ease the corruption in our country.

The funds that we always fight for in our counties have been pocketed by the executive because there is no planning. At the moment, counties’ statistics are not current. If we get the statistics from the grassroots, it will help the governors to plan for the right projects that they ought to provide to their people.

that are undertaken by the executive in our counties. We need to support such ideas so as to free our people. One of the regional directors in the northern region in 1963 wrote a memo that the northern region is nothing except problems. It has never been included in the development programme of the nation. He said that north eastern part of this country is not meant for development. That is how marginalisation came in Kenya. So, this is the time that some of the marginalised counties like Tana River can get credible statistics and plan for the development of their areas.

With the few remarks, I support. Thank you.

There being no other interest to contribute, I ask the Mover can reply.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I take this opportunity to thank my colleagues for their detailed contributions to this Bill. I agree with them that it is an important Bill for our counties.

With regard to education, we should allocate bursary funds appropriately to ensure that the beneficiaries access the funds for all the four years in school. It should be on record how many students should access the education funds for the four years and those who need support for a limited time.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I agree with Sen. Omondi on issues to deal with people with disabilities. The social services docket is important. Sometimes we make assumptions that all that people living with disabilities need wheelchairs and that it is a devolved function. It is important to note how many need aiding sticks, among others. She brought up an important issue. We need to know how many youth are accessing the 30 per cent allocation of all Government procurement tenders for the youth. Alongside many other issues raised, Sen. Murkomen has said that it is not only about collecting the data but also interrogating some of the available data. I thank all my colleagues and I hope that they will support the Bill during Division.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to move and further request that we defer putting the Question to tomorrow pursuant to Standing Order No.54 (3) .

I direct that the putting of the Question be deferred to Tuesday next week.

Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30p.m., time to interrupt the business of the Senate. The Senate stands adjourned until Tuesday, 15th November, 2016 at 2.30p.m.

The Senate rose at 6.30 p.m.