November 9, 2016 SENATE DEBATES Wednesday, 9th November, 2016

If the Chair of the Committee is not around, let us have the Senate Majority Leader issue the Statement that was requested by Sen. Musila. If he is not, we will come back to it later.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Leshore?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to seek a statement from the Chairman of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations.

Proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order 45 (2) (b) to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on National Security and Foreign Relations regarding the killing of four morans, allegedly by the Samburu County Government rangers, in the Samburu National Game Reserve.

In the statement, the Chairperson should:-

Government senior officers and the Samburu Community prior to and after the incident and the outcome of the meetings.

The Chair, Sen. Haji.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will give a response next Thursday.

So ordered.

Let us have Statement (b) issued.

Let us have the Chairman of the Committee on Education, Sen. Karaba

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I now have the answers to the questions.

Order, Sen. Karaba, proceed to answer.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the first question was why two governors and some Members of Parliament (MPs) raided Moi University and whether criminal proceedings are going to be preferred against them. The answer is that the two governors and some MPs stormed Moi University to protest the appointment of Prof. Laban Ayiro as the Acting Vice Chancellor of the University who took over from Prof. Richard Mibey who has since retired. I am not aware whether criminal proceedings are going to be preferred against them as this is the work of the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) to decide after evaluating the evidence gathered by the investigating agencies.

The second question was about ethnic composition of staff and especially at senior management level in all public universities. The ethnic composition of senior management level comprising of Vice Chancellors, Deputy Vice Chancellors, Principals and Deputy Principals is as indicated in the table below.

Kamba Somali Digo Taita Swahili Giriama Maasai Suba Kuria Teso Other

Total

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is the Chairman in order to say three Kisiis, five Kikuyus, five Luhyas and so on? Are they not Kenyans or were they employed based on tribalism?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. This is a Statement that we sought in this House and we asked for those details. Therefore, Sen. Leshore should---

Order! Sen. Sang!

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my point of order is that since the Chairman is giving us statistics, could he move a bit slowly so that we note especially the statistics that he is just releasing?

Sen. Karaba, proceed because Sen. Sang now has a copy.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I need to be informed because I am not aware whether we have an ethnic group in this country referred to as “Ruos.” Which community is this?

Sen. Ongoro, I wish I could be of assistance but it is a bit difficult to change the pronunciation of a man of Sen. Karaba’s stature and longevity.

Is there another different pronunciation?

Chair, proceed.

I was in the column of deputy principals and you can follow the table.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Do we have a tribe called “Swahili?”

Retired Justice, Sen. Madzayo and the Chair of the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, please answer that.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me confirm that there is no tribe called “Swahili.”

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I got this one from the Ministry of Education. Maybe they were referring to the Mijikenda.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the third question was about whether there is a clear policy and criteria for appointing vice chancellors and senior staff in all public universities.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the vice chancellors and other senior university officers are appointed through an open and competitive process that involves advertisement of the posts in the printed and electronic media of wide national circulation and in the universities’ websites.

The advertisement outlines the duties and responsibilities of the advertised posts, the academic and professional qualifications of the candidates, experience and publications among other information. Once the applications are received, the shortlisting panel develops shortlisting criteria that are used to identify the candidates to be invited for all interviews for the position. The shortlisted candidates are then interviewed by the full Council and the names of the best performing three candidates are forwarded to the Cabinet Secretary for appointment for any of them in the case of the post of Vice Chancellor, the Deputy Vice Chancellor, Principal or Deputy Principal of a university and its constituents.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, in case of other positions, the Council approves the appointment of the best merited candidate.

The fourth question is about the list of all the Vice Chancellors in all the public universities. I have the list of 30 Vice Chancellors as listed below:- No

MasindeMuli ro University of Science and Technology Prof. Fred O. Otieno M PhD Kakamega Luo

University of Science and Technology Prof. Japheth Magambo M PhD

On a point of order, Speaker, Sir. I did not want to interrupt the Chair but I thought as a matter of record, we should set the record clear.

called Swahili. We are misleading the nation. We are misleading the nation because the proud Swahili people are defined as the first Cushitic herdsmen to settle on the East African Coast and thereafter they intermarried with Bantu tribes to form the Swahili tribe that speaks the Kiswahili Language. That is according to the dictionary.

………………….(Words expunged at the order of the Speaker)

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! All those statements you have made, except the latter will be expunged. This is because you stood on a point of order to talk about the Swahili people. You then went to ahead talk about Kakamega, its population and its number of PhDs holders as if you are in the real business of contrasting yourself with the rest of Kakamega County residents.

With regard to the Swahili people that is not enough basis for us to accept. You need to produce another authority which is competent enough for us to accept rather than reading from your phone and claiming it is a dictionary which I have not seen and verified. That is also out of order and you know it better, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to take this opportunity to congratulate the Chairman of the Committee on Education because of the details that he has managed to give us in this particular response. However, there are a few other clarifications I would like to hear from him. First, in the previous response, the Chairperson had indicated that Moi University had two substantive Deputy Vice Chancellors. However, Prof. Laban Ayiro was not one of them. I asked him to clarify what position Prof. Ayiro held in the university and why the Cabinet Secretary for Education could not appoint any of the two who are substantive Deputy Vice-Chancellors to take over as acting Vice-chancellor. Moreover, what specific competence did Prof. Ayiro have over and above what the others who were already confirmed Deputy Vice-Chancellors had?

Secondly, the Chairperson has given us as a list of 30 Vice-Chancellors of public universities. Out of this, we see the ethnic composition of 23 Vice-Chancellors. However, he has not given us the ethnic identity of the seven Vice-Chancellors. Who are the other seven? What are their ethnic compositions?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, those are the clarifications that I would want the Chairperson to address.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I would like to ask the Chairperson to clarify how he established that these individuals belonged to the various tribes because I have with me my identification card. I have looked very hard to find out what tribe I belong because it is not indicated in it. So, I want him to tell us how he got this information and actually identify that these individuals belong to the various tribes.

Order, Sen. (Prof.) Lesan! The Government has many ways of getting information. I do not think that is a clarification.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Although you are ruling my neighbor out of order, Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, a county would suffice. For

Pokot or I come from that county, it is indicated. So, we may have to ask the Chairperson to see how that can be done.

Order, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo! I thought you were once in the Government before in your other life. The Government of Kenya conducted a census and it had such a category.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, you are right, but we are living in a new dispensation called devolution which is now five years old.

He has given both. There is a column for the county as well as the ethnic group.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, if it is true, then I want to see Pokot and Turkana here. Why has he left other tribes if they are 42 of them?

One further clarification, he has said we have 30 Vice-chancellors. Out of this, 11 of them are on acting capacity. This is a major problem. How can we have a staggering 37 per cent of all our Vice-chancellors on acting capacity? Something is exceedingly wrong in that Ministry. The Minister and his team must ask themselves why people are on acting capacity.

Lastly, Moi University conducted proper interviews following procedures to the extent of producing a candidate. At the time of declaring the candidate for the post of the Vice-Chancellor, they were bold enough to reveal to the villagers their ranking. Suddenly, they threw out that ranking and came up with a brand new name which was not supposed to be a subject of anybody. Prof. Ayiro is a very brilliant man, but he was none of those who were interviewed. That is how that problem arose. We need to correct it because there is no tribal undertone whatsoever.

If there is fire, people put it off. That is why those governors and other leaders went there because they were locally available. If any of us were near it, we would have done the same thing. So, could the Chairperson tell us why they wasted a whole two months interviewing people and then threw it out and now they want to cover it by saying there is some tribal element here?

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. From the list read, it is evident that by and large vice-chancellors come from the areas where the universities are located and yet we are talking about them being national universities. I would like clarification as to why this has been allowed to happen and whether this is what actually contributed to the governors in North Rift also considering that not necessarily their tribe, but a person from their own locality should also be appointed as the Vice-Chancellor of Moi University. What is the Ministry doing to correct the situation throughout the country and ensure our universities reflect the face of Kenya?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like the Chairperson to confirm whether these universities are becoming tribal enclaves. If you hear from his statement, all the vice-chancellors from Nyanza are Luos. All the vice-chancellors from Central are Kikuyus. All the vice-chancellors from Western are Luhyas and all the vice-chancellors from Coast are Swahilis. Is he confirming that these are becoming tribal enclaves?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, mine is a clarification on the list (No.17) of vice chancellors. In an attempt to demonstrate that they have balanced Makueni and Kitui counties, they have mistakenly put Prof. Muluvi as having come from

should reflect that there is no vice chancellor from Makueni County.

Chairperson. Mr. Speaker, Sir, the first concern was by Sen. Sang. He sought to know the fate of the two deputies. The two deputies are covered in the answer that I gave and the process has already started. Since they are serving in acting capacity and going by the final report, they may be considered if they qualify. The process has started and it has not been completed. The disparity of 23 vice chancellors in 30 universities arises because some of the universities have just been chartered. Since the process of appointing vice chancellors is still going on, there is a disparity. The charters were issued last Friday by His Excellency the President. I am sure about this because even the acting vice chancellor of Kirinyaga University has not been confirmed.

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo asked why vice chancellors are serving in acting capacity. This is because they have not yet gone through the entire process for them to be confirmed as vice chancellors or principals. The process is long and still going on; it is not simple. The council has to sit and decide on three of them. The names are then forwarded to the Cabinet Secretary, who will decide on who will become the vice chancellor. There are so many other factors to be considered.

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo also asked why some universities have no vice chancellors. As I said earlier, some universities have just been chartered and they are yet to appoint the vice chancellors.

Regarding the question asked by Sen. Ndiema about ‘localizing’ universities, it is not true that all vice chancellors in the various universities have been ‘localized.’ There are some universities where the vice chancellor is not from the local community. For example, the Vice Chancellor of the University of Eldoret is not from the local community. Likewise, the Vice Chancellor of Kirinyaga University is not from Kirinyaga. I will allow the Senator to read the Statement so that he can ascertain the facts.

Universities are referred as such because they are supposed to be universal. They are supposed to represent the face of Kenya. According to the list that I have read, 30 universities have almost all tribes represented. The major tribes; Kamba, Luhya and Kikuyu are not well spread the way geography would require.

I wish to thank Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. for the correction. Maybe it was an oversight during printing. I have already corrected my list, which I will send to the Ministry of Education for them to correct.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is nothing tribal here; it is competition. All these people have PhDs, but there are other things that are considered, particularly publication.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Sen. Karaba has read the list, which shows that by and large, the vice chancellors come from communities within which the universities are located. Is it, therefore, in order for him to say that there is wide distribution, which implies that what he has read is not true?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I can prove by this list. In the University of Nairobi (UoN) , the Vice Chancellor is Prof. M. F. Mbithi, a male with a PhD. He is from

University, which is in Uasin Gishu County. The Acting Vice Chancellor is Prof. Airo, a male with a PhD. He is from the Luhya Community. The Vice Chancellor of Kenyatta University is Prof. K. Wainaina, who is serving on an acting capacity. He has a PhD and he is from the Kikuyu Community in Nakuru County. The Vice Chancellor of Egerton University is Prof. Rose Mwonya, who is a female from Siaya County, which is very far from Egerton University. The Vice Chancellor of Jomo Kenyatta University of Agriculture and Technology is Prof. Imbuga---

Order, Senator. Mr. Speaker, Sir, what Sen. Ndiema said is not correct.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, is it in order for the Chairperson to trivialize this issue? This came as a Statement so as to find out whether---

Order, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. Seek clarification.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, is it in order for the Chairperson to take us round when we know that most vice chancellors come from the communities where the universities are located and speak the same vernacular languages as the villagers who neighbour the universities?

Lastly, the Chairperson says that we have acting vice chancellors because some of the universities are still new. That is not true because as soon as a council of any university has been formed, recruitment takes place immediately. All these universities are very old; they are at least three years old. We need to know what is holding them.

Chairperson, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo asked you a very easy question: How come there are so many acting vice chancellors? The process that you have talked about cannot defeat the purpose for which it was created. The process is there for recruitment and not to keep people in abeyance or in acting capacity forever.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, one of the greatest challenges that we have in the recruitment process of vice chancellors is where you wait for the end product and the process is manipulated. Whereas the Cabinet Secretary has indicated how the process is done, it is important for the Ministry of Education to provide the progress in the process of appointing a vice chancellor. The manipulation happens at that particular point. In the case of Moi University, what I asked in the initial statement which the Ministry has avoided to give details, is for the process. The council concludes the process and forwards the names to the Minister. Because the Minister is not comfortable with the names, the answer we are getting in this House is that the process is still underway. Can we get the incremental steps? Can we get the names of the people who were shortlisted, the interview process that was done by the council and its outcome and how many names were submitted to the Minister so that we are sure of the integrity of the process?

In this case, we are seeing a situation where the Minister has decided to keep the House in the dark with regard to the process and telling us we wait until they conclude the process. We need to look at the integrity of the process. So, can the Chairperson give us the names of the persons who were shortlisted by the Moi University Council, the outcome of that process by the Council and the names that went to the Minister?The Ministry of Education is guided by the Constitution of this country. We have a right to information. Let him give us this information so that we can establish the integrity of the

How come there are so many acting vice chancellors? The process that you have talked about cannot defeat the purpose for which it was created. The process is there for recruitment and not to keep people in abeyance or in acting capacity forever.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, one of the greatest challenges that we have in the recruitment process of vice chancellors is where you wait for the end product and the process is manipulated. Whereas the Cabinet Secretary has indicated how the process is done, it is important for the Ministry of Education to provide the progress in the process of appointing a vice chancellor. The manipulation happens at that particular point. In the case of Moi University, what I asked in the initial statement which the Ministry has avoided to give details, is for the process. The council concludes the process and forwards the names to the Minister. Because the Minister is not comfortable with the names, the answer we are getting in this House is that the process is still underway. Can we get the incremental steps? Can we get the names of the people who were shortlisted, the interview process that was done by the council and its outcome and how many names were submitted to the Minister so that we are sure of the integrity of the process?

In this case, we are seeing a situation where the Minister has decided to keep the House in the dark with regard to the process and telling us we wait until they conclude the process. We need to look at the integrity of the process. So, can the Chairperson give us the names of the persons who were shortlisted by the Moi University Council, the outcome of that process by the Council and the names that went to the Minister?The Ministry of Education is guided by the Constitution of this country. We have a right to information. Let him give us this information so that we can establish the integrity of the

is so-and-so. It is important that the details of the process are given because we can be sure of the integrity of the process.

Sen. (Prof.) Lesan.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are aware that the appointment of these vice chancellors is done by University Councils. Could the Chair provide this House with the membership of the councils of the various universities who are concerned with the appointment of the vice chancellors?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to tell Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo that the fact that we have acting vice chancellors is as a result of there being the latest entrance of the universities last month. I was in the State House where seven universities were listed to be chartered. So, if you take seven out of 30, you are left 27. Out of this, there are some vice chancellors who have since retired like the one for Kenyatta University. Some of them have retired, some are yet to complete their tenure and some have already completed. When they do that, they are supposed to be replaced. The process is tedious and long. There are so many competitors who could be wishing to become vice chancellors. That is why the process had to take long. The advertisements also take long for them to get to the candidates. As soon as they get the adverts, they apply and the due process follows.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, as for Sen. Sang, he is talking about confidential information. To me, that is not possible. The moment we have three or six candidates qualifying to be forwarded to the CS, it is up to the CS and his committee who will sit and find out whether they qualify or merit to be appointed as vice chancellors. He can refuse them and when that happens, he pushes back and the process is repeated. So, it is the process which is complicated and it is not open to any other person to know the scores in case there could be an abuse or some people invading the office the way it was done in some places. The more we leave them open, people will get to know.

Regarding the issue raised by Sen. (Prof.) Lesan, who is a Member of the Committee on Education; he should know that normally, the councils were all disbanded by the CS when he came into power. He discovered that most of the council members in the then system were doing fishy things. That is why they were disbanded. Right now, they are recruiting others and the recruitment is also governed by the Universities Act,

Order, Members! We have taken a lot of time on this statement. We need to make progress. What is it, Sen. Sang?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You will appreciate that in responses given by the Chairman to the general issues and riders with regard to this statement that I sought, is fairly well articulated. However, the particular issue with regard to Moi University isspecific. You have heard the Chairman say that some details are confidential. What is confidential in the appointment process of a vice chancellor of a public university? The Chairman is telling us that he cannot give us the details of the persons or the candidates who were shortlisted, those who went through the interview by the council and the outcome. This is central to this question. If the Chairperson will not

interview by the council and the three names that were forwarded, the question would not have been answered. The reason why this is important is that it points to complaints being raised. Public universities are public institutions. Council members of the public universities are people that we live together in this society. They approach us when the universities have issues and when they need us to lobby for extra funding to these universities. Therefore, as they do recruitment processes of vice chancellors, they will in one way or another share this information.

Order, Senator. Please, conclude.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, can the Chairman with regard to this matter share the details of the persons who were shortlisted, those who went through the interview by the council and the outcome? This is for the reason that they can share details of the process for us to establish the integrity of the process. If this information is provided---

Order, Sen. Sang! That is sufficient. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, what is your point of order?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Is Sen. Sang he in order to insist when the Chairperson has actually confirmed what takes place in the identification of a vice chancellor? For example, professors work and sweat their way to the top. They get a Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) , become tutorial fellows and they are nominated by fellow professors to become associate professors. They are then promoted by fellow professors to become professors. Could the Senator for Nandi County be doing this country a service by limiting himself to other administrative positions like accountant, administrator, cooks, watchmen and staff like that?This is an area where the Government can possibly have no role. However, professors have their own way of going to the top and you know this

Order, Senators! Let us retire this matter to the Chairperson of the Committee on Education. Let him respond to what Sen. Sang sought. What Sen. Madzayo has stated is true. All we need is information and you must give it.

For the benefit of Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, the information that is sought will determine what you are saying.Whether it is fellow colleagues or by appointment. That is exactly what we need to know. So, both ways, the Chairperson is under obligation to furnish this House with that information.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am treating this one like an examination because it goes through an examination. Once there is a vacancy as a result of retirement

Order, Senators! Let us retire this matter to the Chairperson of the Committee on Education. Let him respond to what Sen. Sang sought. What Sen. Madzayo has stated is true. All we need is information and you must give it.

For the benefit of Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, the information that is sought will determine what you are saying.Whether it is fellow colleagues or by appointment. That is exactly what we need to know. So, both ways, the Chairperson is under obligation to furnish this House with that information.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am treating this one like an examination because it goes through an examination. Once there is a vacancy as a result of retirement

review all the characteristics and features of the qualities of what they will do. All that is supposed to be vetted by the Cabinet Secretary (CS) and his committee. That is what happens.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. You have pronounced your ruling from the Chair, agreeing with Sen. Madzayo and Sen. Sang that the information they sought is public information and must be provided to this House. We are entitled to it. You have given direction to the Chairperson to bring the information and he seems to be challenging your ruling. Is he in order to do so?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to give the Statement requested by Sen. Bule on the state of drought and famine in the country. I have the Statement with me. However, I seek your guidance because it is about 15 pages with some tables. I just want to concentrate on the first part of this Statement.

This Statement answers three questions raised in the Senate on 19th October, 2016 and communicated to the Cabinet Secretary (CS) , Ministry of Devolution and Planning in a letter dated 1st November, 2016.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to give the Statement requested by Sen. Bule on the state of drought and famine in the country. I have the Statement with me. However, I seek your guidance because it is about 15 pages with some tables. I just want to concentrate on the first part of this Statement.

This Statement answers three questions raised in the Senate on 19th October, 2016 and communicated to the Cabinet Secretary (CS) , Ministry of Devolution and Planning in a letter dated 1st November, 2016.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir.

What is it, Sen. Bule?

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. According to his list, Tana River County is not among the counties affected by this severe drought.

Order, Sen. Bule! Do you have a copy of the response?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have given it out to be photocopied so that Senators can have their copies.

Order, Senator! When you seek a statement on whether your county is affected or not, the response is there. If it is not affected, maybe it will not be there. So, he is perfectly in order. It is you to challenge that position.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, he said --- Order, Sen. Bule! Let the Chairperson respond.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, indeed, Tana River County is one of the counties that is stated in the very first statement which have just read.

The Government is aware of the drought and food security situation across the country since this is monitored closely on a monthly basis. The drought monitoring system is managed by the National Drought Management Authority (NDMA) and is well established.

A brief summary of the system now follows for the information of hon. Senators.

Emergency Recovery It is important to note two things. First, there are the drought phases for the county as a whole but the drought monitoring system pinpoints particular areas within a county that are at higher or lower levels of risk. For example, the drought phase for Kilifi is currently alarm, but its livestock and ranching zone has just reached the emergency phase while its cash cropping and dairy zone remains in alert. Similarly, Baringo is experiencing normal conditions for the season but its pastoral livelihood zone is in alert.

Secondly, the level of suffering witnessed in a particular area is a consequence not just of the severity of drought but of the population’s underlying vulnerability. Equally, a “normal” drought phase does not mean that a county faces no food security challenges. For example, the impact of drought on access to water in Tana River is particularly severe at present because the state of the country’s water infrastructure is generally poor.

This is a development problem that needs addressing through the county development plan and other mechanisms. It seems that comparatively modest drought conditions are having much bigger impacts than they did in the past because the underlying challenges of poverty and inequality are not yet being satisfactorily addressed. By focusing on drought alone, we may fail to address the root causes of the problem.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the second question was about what the national and county governments are doing to support the people affected in the areas and to mitigate on the problem. The national Government has established an Inter-ministerial Technical Committee to investigate and monitor the progress of the drought and its impact and to recommend the necessary interventions. One of the committee’s first tasks was to meet with the representatives of the county governments to establish what is currently being done and what the gaps are.

Following these consultations, the Technical Committee estimated that an additional Kshs5 billion will be needed between November, 2016, and January, 2017, to support the estimated 1.5 million people, of whom 1.3 million are in ASALs and 200,000 are in other counties.

The Technical Committee has prepared a Cabinet Memo for Cabinet approval for the release of the funds. The national Treasury has already released the first months’ funding for November to cater for relief food and other activities in sectors such as water, livestock, agriculture, health and nutrition and peace building and conflict management.

The following is a summary of actions being taken by the national and county governments.

wide range of sectors including water tinkering, livestock vaccination, relief food distribution among other drought mitigating activities.

moderately malnourished children have been reached with ready-to-use therapeutic and supplementary feeds. A minimum essential service package or reproductive health is being provided while mass nutrition screening for children and integrated outreach services are ongoing in arid counties.

Chairman of the Committee on Devolved Government, you are on Page 6 and we have 15 pages. Could you just give us the highlights?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am on Page 6 and there is only one more page to read because other pages are tables. So, I will manage.

Okay, proceed and do it faster.

Please allow me to do that without the interruption from the Senator from Tana River.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Bule, we have one more page.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we do not want a summary because that is corruption. So, we need details of the report so that we digest and argue where necessary.

Sen. Bule, you are completely out of order. On several occasions, we have had highlights and that cannot translate to corruption. What do you mean?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we want the details of the report. Therefore, we do not want a summary of the report.

Sen. Bule, you already have the report, is that not so?

Yes.

Then you already have the details because you already have the report with you.

Chairman, proceed.

Mr. Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Indeed, the people of Tana River would wish to know and follow what we are saying in the House here. This is a very detailed---

Chairman, proceed. Okay, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

investigations or assessments at this stage but of course will keep this under review.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. While appreciating the good job done by the Chair, what I have realised is that Kenyans are good in paperwork and framing things. As at now, the situation is getting worse in Tana River County. We appreciate the steps taken by the national Government and the county government. However, the levels and the standards of assistance are inadequate. Tana River County is at a stage which we have never experienced before. So, the report is not up to date. The NDMA report is not valid. As I raise this problem, Tana River County is in a very bad state. The situation is alarming.

I appeal to the Ministry and the Government to ensure that the lives of the people and the livestock of Tana River County are taken seriously. We read in the newspapers that we were among the first five affected counties. However, today, the report has been changed and we are seeing some other counties being given priority over Tana River County.

Sen. Bule, you are supposed to be seeking a clarification.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the clarification I am seeking is whether the report that the Chair has is valid. Is he satisfied as the Chair? Our system is what is failing us. If we had the Cabinet Secretary here, it would have been better. I am just

whether Tana River County is at an alarming or alert stage? Can he confirm that?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have listened to the Chairman of the Committee running through a long Statement on drought mitigation interventions. It is unfortunate that in this country, an ordinary herder will not understand when rainy seasons begin. Our problem as a nation is clearly indicated in the Statement that talks about the policy and institutional issues. The only Statement we hear here is the Draft Disaster Risk Management Policy and Bill is currently with the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government. It has been there for many years. This is the wrong time to run around and establish technical committees. That should have been a permanent institutional structure in terms of coordination between the various Ministries. This is the failure of this Government and the previous Governments.

By the NDMA is actually a routine piece of work. This is not what we expected. There is a delayed response for drought. Drought has become a major occurrence in almost all ASAL areas and the Government should actually have responded as early as 15th of October. We have the Meteorology Department which can share information with the Ministry of Devolution and Planning and Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government. They are now running around talking about Kshs5 billion. I want to ask both in the short-term and long-term since these are very short interventions, what does these Ministries or generally this Government has in terms of building drought resilience for these communities? There should be drought resilience projects and not piecemeal projects. Also, how are you coordinating much more effectively between the county governments and the national government to see that we do not have this repeated mistakes that our people have faced for many years?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I also join my colleagues who have torn this report. My first question to the Chairperson of Devolution is: Did you, as a Committee, sit down and interrogate this report? Secondly, as he was reading part of this report, you could think it was written in the academia world and not the real situation. They even have time to say we have people who are trying to monitor, people who are doing a, b, c, d and a particular county is in this stage. This is a serious matter. The issue of drought, people going without food and animals dying should be treated just like security. It should be an issue where on daily basis the entire country, including the President must know how each particular area in this country is. Committees cannot be formed simply because a particular Senator or Members of County Assembly (MCA) or a Member a Parliament (MP) or even a priest have said that the people in that area suffering.

When it comes to Kajiado County, things are worse. In fact, I heard the Chairman talking about Taita-Taveta and how things are worse and we border Taita-Taveta County. In the area of Loitoktok in Kajiado South, we have not had rains for the last two years. Yesterday, it rained and the few animals which were remaining were swept away by water. We are living---

What is your clarification?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we have a table here showing that many things have been done. This is not correct like taking water browsers. The day

Services Board to get us a water bowser but he did not help us. The day before yesterday, some children almost died because of lack of water in a place called Ortiaseka. I doubt whether what is in this report is true. In Kajiado County, we have so many areas which are suffering. In fact, schools were forced to close early because of the drought.

We need to come up with a proper policy so that we can have the national Government represented at the county level or the ward level. This should be taken seriously so that there could be flow of information instead of waiting for somebody to sit and say an area will be categorized there is alert or alarm and all that. The Ministry of Devolution and Planning is not serious.

Hon. Senators, let us seek clarification on the basis of the statement given to us, or you ask for more details. Let us not make general statements yet we have a statement here that we need to interrogate.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise to seek some clarifications. First, I want to echo the sentiments of Senator of Wajir County. I participated in the drafting of the Disaster Management Risk Bill. It has been sitting in the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government for the last six months. Unfortunately, this country since Independence does not have a Disaster Management Policy which is an embarrassment. When will the national Government table the Bill and when will the policy which is the first in this country be activated?

Secondly, the Senator from Kajiado mentioned this, I would like to know the reason why the national Government or Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government in setting aside Kshs145 million, they thought the category of livestock should take 50 per cent of that amount. Without diminishing the livestock farmers, I would think that they would consider having a better budget for buying of what now appears to be a disaster already at national Government in terms of bags. There are only 731,000 90-kilogramme bags of maize in our national strategic grain reserves. When will the national Government pass the additional proposed budget of Kshs5 billion on page 4 as proposed by the technical committee?

Thirdly, what is the reason why the national Government did not use the contingency fund that is already in the budget as opposed to waiting for this Cabinet memo that is proposed here?

Lastly, according to this report, in Makueni County alone, the budget for coordination is 784,700 and the budget for water is Kshs862,000. What is the basis upon which the national Government or NDMA thinks that they should put more funds in coordination and not water? Who decided this budget and in what areas? Since national Government and some of its officials have been known to use these funds or this relief food for their own aggrandisement, what areas that are covered under Table 2 that are supposed to benefit specifically from the kitty that is proposed by the national Government on page 5?

Hon. Senators, if you want to seek clarifications, you put under request and not interventions.

Asante, Bw. Spika wa Muda. Nimehakiki hii ripoti ya Mwenyekiti vyema na imeandikwa kwa utaratibu sana. Ukweli wa mambo ni kwamba u

Mimi nimeihakiki katika ukurasa wa nne.

Mimi nimenakili katika ukurusa wa nne unaosema kwamba Serikali imepeleka magari ya maji, kudunga mifugo sindano na kupeana vyakula.

Bw. Spika wa Muda, ukienda Kilifi, utajua kwamba mambo sivyo yalivyo katika hii taarifa hii. Ni sharti wale wanaohusika na mambo kama haya waeleze vyema walivyotumia pesa hizo. Sisi ambao ni wakaazi wa Kilifi hatujaona vitu kama hivi.

Jumamosi iliyopita nilipeleka chakula kule. Katika shughuli hiyo ya ugawaji wa chakula, sikuona hata gari moja ambalo lilileta msaada wowote. Katika ukurasa wa tano, inasemekana kwamba vitu kadha vimefanywa mwaka huu na hazina ya kukabiliana na ukame. Kufikia hivi, sasa utumiaji wa pesa hizo ambazo ni Kshs19 milioni hauko kwenye hesabu za Kilifi. Sijui Mwenyeketi ataweza kutueleza vipi kuhusu jambo hilo.

Vile vile, kuna---

Sen. Madzayo, seek clarifications.

Bw. Spika wa Muda, nauliza swali kuhusu kila ukurasa. Nahitaji majibu kutokana na taarifa ya Mwenyekiti.

Be brief and ask your clarifications, so that we can make progress.

Bw. Spika wa Muda, ikiwa kuna bima ya mifugo, mbona mifugo katika Kilifi wanauzwa kwa bei ya chini kwa sababu ya ukame? Je, kwa nini hakuna bima ya mifugo katika Kaunti ya Kilifi?

Nikimalizia, taarifa ya Mwenyekiti inasema kuwa Serikali inafanya mipango ya kusaidia. Huu si wakati wa kupanga. Taarifa hii inafaa kuongea juu ya mikakati ambayo imewekwa kukabiliana na janga hili. Ahadi kama hizi zingefaa kama hatungekuwa na janga la njaa. Hivi sasa, janga la njaa limetukumba na lazima tutafute suluhisho. Watu wamekumbwa na baa la njaa na mifugo wanaendelea kufa ilhali hakuna suluhisho mwafaka kutoka kwa Serikali.

Bw. Spika wa Muda, mzigo kama huu haufai kuwachiwa serikali za kaunti pekee yake. Hivi sasa mzigo huu umewachiwa serikali ya Kaunti ya Kilifi ambayo haikutenga pesa za kukabili baa la njaa.

Je, ni mipangilio gani inaweza kufanywa hivi sasa ili kukumbana na baa la njaa linalokumba taifa nzima haswa watu na mifugo katika Kaunti ya Kilifi tukikumbuka kwamba kulingana na Katiba, maisha ya binadamu yako katika mikono ya Serikali? Serikali inafaa kuwapa watu wa Kilifi msaada mwafaka.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, from my understanding of the Chairperson’s presentation, there are two things that are related to drought; that is, water and food. We generally do not have water to grow food or grass. The second issue is that there is no food.

In the livestock subsector, they are talking about acaricides and tsetse flies. The cows are not sick; they are hungry. These are two very different treatments. When a cow is hungry, you do not inject it with insecticides and so on. It would have been better if the Chairperson told us that in view of the fact that the cows are very hungry, they have moved several bales of hay from Eldoret or elsewhere to Kajiado or Wajir. To tell us that a hungry cow needs acaricides is an insult to this House and anybody who has got any intellectual capacity at any level. That is why the Senator for Tana River County is angry.

Government intend to dig in order to mitigate drought? That is the issue. Where do both the national Government and the county government intend to get hay from, so as to save some of the cows in areas where there is drought? The idea of the Government buying the affected cows to save the situation is not working.

The clarification that I seek is basic and simple. The problem is straightforward and the solution is clear. Could the Chairperson specifically explain to us what drought mitigating measures the Government is taking?

Very well. Let us have two final clarifications.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I believe that Tana River County is named after River Tana, which is the largest river in Kenya, rising from the water shade of Mt. Kenya all the way down through Garissa and Tana River into the Indian Ocean where it empties its water.

What the Chairperson has read us was written from a desk. Nobody went to see the river meander, where it wastes its alluvial deposits and the kind of devastation that people face during the floods. Why can we not save the water before it is emptied into the Indian Ocean? There is a lot of good water that goes to waste into the Indian Ocean. Elsewhere in the world, people who live along the rivers make sure that agriculture is influenced by the river. Why can the Ministry of Devolution and Planning not think of how to utilize rivers?

Secondly, can we not have people instead of writing all that literature to go to Tana River and other related counties along the river to start irrigation works which is easy if not boreholes because of lowering the water table?The other one is about the Meteorological Department. To me, it is a department that does not function in this country. The Meteorological Department does not tell

us the truth about the pattern, distribution of rainfall in totality and precipitation.

What is it, Sen. Bule.

I have information about the issue of irrigation which the Government is undertaking---

Order, Sen. Bule! I think that is not right especially from him.

Proceed, Sen. Bule.

Bw. Spika wa Muda, natakakusema ya kwamba, Serikaliiko na uwezekano ya kusaidia watu Tana River lakini haitaki kwa sababu kuna mradi wa kunyunyuzia maji wa Bura, Galole katika MtoTana. Kwa hivyo, iko kando yake. Mradi huo wa kunyunyuzia hauwezi kuwalisha watu wa Tana River na Bura kwa sababuS erikali imeshika mkono wa kushoto kwa watu wa Tana River. Kwa hivyo, Serikali isaidie watu wa Tana River. Pia, kuna mradi wa kunyunyuzia maji wa Galana lakini hauwasaidi watu wa Kaunti ya Mto Tana.

Sen. Bule, what do you mean by kushika mkono wa kushoto?

Bw. Spika wa Muda, kushika mkono wa kushoto nikusema irrigation iko, haipatiwi nguvu ya kufufua hizo irrigations na watu wa Tana River wako chini ya mto wa Tana na wanakufa njaa.

Proceed, Sen. Karaba and conclude. Thank you for the information. The other thing that we are having and it is not functioning is the Meteorological Department. My clarification is that can we have that department reactivated so that they can tell us the truth.

Sen. Ongoro.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Chair, hope you have noted all these comments and clarifications.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was in the Senators’ Lounge when I listened to the Chair’s response to this statement. I want to state that I was not convinced that the statement should be read in the Senate because this statement that has been sought is of such enormous importance to this country because if not well addressed, we will be talking not about animals dying but ripple effects of losing human beings.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, most of these communities we are talking about that depend on livestock draw their welfare from the same livestock. So, giving us a shallow answer that indicates that the Government is trying to buy the dying animals; does the Government realize that most of these areas are referred to Arid and Semi-Arid Areas (ASAL) ? That means that cattle rearing is the source of livelihood. Withdrawing the dying animals and giving them money that they cannot use to buy anything because there is nothing in the markets, has the Government ever known that people die with money in their pockets because there is nothing to buy in the markets? If a Government that cannot feed its people has no responsibility or any business being in governance.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, it is also a constitutional provision that this Government should provide security including food security. The Chairman should tell us what mitigation measures that will impact in the lives of not the animals but the people whose livelihoods depend on these animals to keep alive.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, drought problem has been with us all the years. I cannot remember the year that Members of the National Assembly or the Senate have never called upon the Government to take care and think more about drought problems. t is something which is with us. It is something which we have not been able to decide which direction to follow. We deal with it in piecemeal situation but we hear of the cases of Machakos or Laikipia. So, it is a problem which is known by everybody. We do not need to employ experts. We just write and ask chiefs to give the details and the matter is over. If we cannot trust ourselves; I would like with your permission to appeal to the honourable Members that we should also consider the other side of the drought famine and hunger. This matter has increased the number of Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs) .

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when you border with people who have no water and grass for their livestock, you would want them to be assisted so that they do not disturb you. I know you are trying to look at the time but I think it is important not just to look at the hunger of the people but also the provision of water. We should ask ourselves; have we done anything to tackle this menace? The answer is no. The cry came out with the report we got from Sen. (Prof.) Lesan. I asked myself whether they sat down and talked to the county government and the people who run those counties to justify that an

everybody is agreeing. Can Sen. (Prof.) Lesan go back and give us in a two page letter what they have done. It should include what they have done and what they are intending to do. I am sorry if that language is not allowed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, look at the United States (US) – if you allow me to say something about that.

That is not part of seeking clarification to this statement.

I have already done my clarification and asked several questions and I hope they will be responded to.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I have heard the comments and sentiments Senators have made about the serious issue of drought and famine. This is a serious issue which involves the loss of lives both human and animals. Therefore, the sentiments expressed by the Senators are valid. It is important that the Government addresses them.

As requested from this House because I have read the statement, but I admit that it has shortcomings as expressed by Senators. However, there are a few areas which have been touched. For example, on recognition of the seriousness of famine and drought in this country, the Government has actually established the NDMA which is the one that handles this. In the first place, this is in recognition of the seriousness of this issue. The body is in the process of collecting information.

In Tana River County around Galana, there is some activity that the Government has done. The water in canals is being channeled to the irrigation schemes. This has been done as a way of mitigating the lack of water in various areas. This has---

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Sen. Bule, this is a response to your statement. The Chairperson is addressing the clarifications that you sought.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as part of handling the persistent drought and misuse of water in the tunnel, the Government started an irrigation scheme in Tana River County, the Galana/Kulalu Food Security Project and it produced some maize. In fact, 56, 000 bags of maize from this scheme has actually been distributed as famine relief to the people of Tana River County and part of Kilifi County. Indeed, last week, the Cabinet Secretary (CS) of the Ministry of Devolution and Planning and some Senators were in parts of Kilifi County. I know a Senator who was among the team ---

Hoja ya nidhamu, Bw. Spika. Bw. Waziri na wenzake walikuja kwa ndege na wakaondoka bila kugawa chakula.Walikuja tu kuangalia jinsi hali ilivyo. Kwa hivyo, huyu Mwenyekiti asijaribu kuepusha ukweli hapa Bungeni. Hilo analosema si ukweli hata kidogo.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Many of our colleagues have told Sen. (Prof.) Lesan that the statement is extremely academic. Sen. G.G. Kariuki has suggested that he comes with another statement. We have asked several questions that we do not need him to do public relations with. Would I be in order to suggest that since this is a serious issue, he takes it seriously, goes back to the drawing board and brings the answers as opposed to what he thinks or feels so that he does not get the sort of objections from Senators? I suggest that ---

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I join my colleagues in demanding for a better response. Allow me to give just one example. He spoke about the establishment of the NDMA. It is an empty shell. They distributed Kshs146 million from the European Union (EU) to 10 counties. This was not from the Kenyan Government. What we need is a very specific response in terms of interventions in water and health. These are very generalized responses.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I join my colleagues in demanding for a better response. Allow me to give just one example. He spoke about the establishment of the NDMA. It is an empty shell. They distributed Kshs146 million from the European Union (EU) to 10 counties. This was not from the Kenyan Government. What we need is a very specific response in terms of interventions in water and health. These are very generalized responses.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, Sir. How can we ask the Chairperson to bring a statement about something that does not exist? The whole idea would be for him to go and seek more information on the issues to table it here. It does not exist. Would I be in order to suggest that the CS involved ---

Order, Senator! What does not exist?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, all the things that we are asking for here like being shown how many boreholes have been dug, policy and so on, do not exist. Therefore, I am proposing that the Speaker, using his office, invite the CS concerned to sit here in a Kamukunji with us so that we can propose to him things that he should do. We will then be addressing the issue of drought management. Even if you send the Chairperson back, he will come with another theoretical statement.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, when I started answering the question, I appreciated the magnitude of the issue under discussion. It is an issue of farming and to do with life. Indeed, I have gone through the statement and I know some of the shortcomings. Senators have rightfully pointed out and it will be very important to follow up this issue in order to save this country from having answers like these which do not mitigate the issues at hand.

There are some things that I thought I could just mention. For example, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. has mentioned about things to be done. One of them is the draft Bill. I now go back to asking, how come this draft Bill is sitting in the Ministry when it is one of the vehicles that we require to use? So, these are issues that I could go back for. I am also a Senator in this country and aware of these. I know that there are places in this country with very good weather and have lots of food. I also know some farmers are struggling with where to store the plentiful food that they have. Therefore, there are issues even about distribution capacity to save the people, which I think are not contained in this answer here.

However, I know the piecemeal places that activity has been taken, implementation is going on in certain places and I have mentioned some of them. I have clearly heard that because of the seriousness of this, we would rather have to hear these from the horse’s mouth. As directed, if you would, I would very kindly and dutifully ask

brilliance and amount of knowledge that Senators have in this House, that will, probably, activate the bureaucracy of Government to handle this issues much more seriously.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I am a very disturbed person. We are talking about drought. We are being told that there is drought.

Here, we are talking about drought, water shortage and starvation. Kenyans are starving but when you read this answer, it is talking about an Inter-Ministerial Technical Committee being formed to investigate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I agree with the request that the Cabinet Secretary be invited so that he can give us a direct answer on what mitigation efforts are in place to help Kenyans who are starving.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, this is something for you to consider. It is not only the Cabinet Secretary for Devolution and Planning that may respond to all that we need but we have a number of areas that we require the Cabinet Secretaries (CS) of the Ministries of Interior and Coordination of National Government, the CS for Water and Irrigation and other relevant institutions. If we can have a joint session with all those relevant Ministries, it will help us; probably two or three of them

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Relief food should not be used as a campaign tool. If the same thing could be put forth to the Chair, that would help him in his response.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I was listening to this debate in the car and I am happy the Chair has suggested that he will invite the Cabinet Secretaries here. However, we have always had a practice in the Senate where the Committee first satisfies itself about the Statement before coming to read what has come direct from the Ministry so that in future we avoid the Chairs being taken to task with such enormity.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, am I in order to request the Chair to give us the way forward? We have had this Statement for one hour and 40 minutes. It is one Statement out of about 10 Statements expected today and a lot of legislative agenda and Motions are undone. I do not think it is fair for us to dwell on one Statement for two hours. If we continue like this, we are heading in the wrong direction.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.The discussion this afternoon is a matter that touches on the livelihoods of millions of Kenyans. Is the Senate Majority Leader in order to underestimate the gravity of this matter? This is a matter that is touching on people’s lives. Unfortunately, he also comes from an arid area and he does not appreciate. The people of Tharaka-Nithi County do not understand what their Senator is saying on the Floor of the House. Is he in order to underestimate the gravity of this matter?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I have a lot of respect for the Senate Majority Leader and the manner in which he has led us in this House. However, on this occasion, I think he has underestimated the significance of what we are talking about. We are talking about the situation where Kenyans are starving, livestock dying and there is shortage of water. This House has a right and, in fact, I take an objection that the Senate Majority Leader is trying to intimidate the Chair of this House to the extent that the Chair

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I appreciate that this is a serious matter that generates a lot of emotions. However, I beg your indulgence. If I heard the Senate Majority Leader well, he asked that the Chair gives us a direction. For a Chair to give direction, it is not about making the issue light but about responding to the issues that our colleagues have been raising the whole afternoon. It does not matter how long we stay in the House and speak about the issue. I think it is in order that we get directions from the Chair on the request brought about by my colleagues. The more we stay, the more we become repetitive. Let him respond to the issues that have been raised. That is the plea we are making.

Hon. Senators, the point of order raised by the Senate Majority Leader was directed at the Chair. The Chair does not need any help on this matter.

The Senate Majority Leader rose on a point of order requesting that the matter has taken the better part of the afternoon and that is a fact. However, this is a serious matter. The problem is compounded when the Senate Majority Leader seems to suggest that we have taken more time when the reason is that your own Chairperson has been unable to provide a satisfactory answer to this House.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will be very brief. I want to issue a statement regarding the Status of Bills.

Before I do so, just for the record, I still believe that we need to use our time well. If a matter is very important, the process is you adjourn the House and discuss about it.

The Senate Majority Leader, you are on the Floor to deliver Statement (i) on the Status of Bills.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will be very brief. I want to issue a statement regarding the Status of Bills.

Before I do so, just for the record, I still believe that we need to use our time well. If a matter is very important, the process is you adjourn the House and discuss about it.

The Senate Majority Leader, you are on the Floor to deliver Statement (i) on the Status of Bills.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, which I am delivering.

You will be completely out of order to go back to a matter that this House has concluded.

I am not going back on anything, I am explaining why I will be brief.

The Senate Majority Leader, do not invite the wrath of the Chair.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, what do you want me to do?

Read the statement of the Majority Leader Statement on the Status of Bills.

Reading. Two Bills are due for First Reading because they were passed by the Senate and referred to the National Assembly last week. Four other Bills were passed yesterday evening and they will be sent to the National Assembly today. Therefore, out of the Bills that have come from the Senate to the Assembly, only 10 have been concluded.

Reading. Two Bills are due for First Reading because they were passed by the Senate and referred to the National Assembly last week. Four other Bills were passed yesterday evening and they will be sent to the National Assembly today. Therefore, out of the Bills that have come from the Senate to the Assembly, only 10 have been concluded.

accordance Article 110(3).

I now table this Statement and its annexes on the Table of the Senate. Thank you.

Thank you, the Senate Majority Leader. The proposals that you have put forward are quite in order, especially in reference to the 111 Bills that have been passed without concurrence of the Senate. That brings us to the end of Statements.

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., you have not even logged in, but I will allow you the opportunity to tell us what this very urgent issue is.

Madam Temporary Speaker, it is not a matter of urgency, but what we agreed last week. Was this document supposed to be tabled and availed to the rest of the Senators?

Which document?

Madam Temporary Speaker, the document that highlights what has been done and what has not been done was supposed to be tabled here and provided to the rest of the Senators, so that we can deliberate on the issue as a House. The proposals that you have accepted were most likely not acceptable to us. This is because the Committee on Implementation cannot do anything, unless the leadership of this House goes to the root of the problem. This is a question of leadership at top level. The Committee on Implementation cannot force the other House to do anything. We know what happened last time and I can tell you from what I know that this Senate will not go to court. Therefore, it is absolute public relations to suggest that. Therefore, any political action can only be by decisions made here by all the Senators via debate.

Madam Temporary Speaker, that is why I am suggesting that the House Business Committee ought to discuss on how we will deliberate on this issue whether via a kamukunji or a Motion. However, it must be a collective decision of the House. All of us are politicians and we cannot leave this to the Office of the Senate Majority Leader. We have left it to them, nothing has happened and chances are that nothing will happen.

Thank you, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr.. I have just consulted with the Clerks-at-the-Table. I did not have the benefit of being here last week, but the Senate Majority Leader was in order to table the report as agreed last week. I am informed that it was also agreed that you were to circulate the report, so that all Senators could interrogate and debate it. Therefore, I wish to add that part to my earlier statement. I still agree with the report, but do the other part of printing enough copies and bringing them to the House. If the Senators could have the report tomorrow, it will give them an ample time to interrogate it. We will then have time allocated for that discussion.

deliberated upon when they next appear on the Order Paper.

We need to move to Orders Nos.8 and 9; Committee of the Whole.

- THAT, Clause 3 of the Bill be amended –

- THAT, Clause 4 of the Bill be amended in the introductory clause by deleting the words “physical planning or” appearing immediately after the words “engaged in”.

amendments in terms of definitions. I am fortified by my proposal to the extent that in the new Constitution, the word “physical planning” does not appear. It reads: “Land use planning”. In the Land Policy Paper passed by the Grand Coalition Government, in particular, by Sen. Orengo when he was the Minister for Lands, the words “land use” are the ones that are proposed in the land policy.Lastly, under Article 67 of the Constitution, the mandate on land use planning has been given to the National Land Commission (NLC) and the words used are “land use planning”. Therefore, the objective in most of the amendments is to delete the words “physical planning,” which are not part of the law.(Question of amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

The Division will be at the end. Clause 5

THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 7. Similarly Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I propose that Clause 7 be deleted in similar terms as Clause 6 on the set up of the national platform which is superfluous under Article 67

(h)

of the Constitution.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Mositet)

: Division will be at the end. Clause 8

- THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 8 and substituting therefor the following new clause – The National Land Commission shall, in relation to the matters set out in this Act –

The Division will be at the end. Clause 6

- THAT Clause 9 of the Bill be amended –

of the Cabinet Secretary shall be to formulate a national policy on physical planning while the approval function over the same should be done by Parliament.

(Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Mositet): Division will be at the end. Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr, could you move your amendment on the same clause?

THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 10. This clause seeks to establish the Office of the National Director of Physical Planning and National Director of Physical Planning to advice the Cabinet Secretary. The same will interfere with the work of the National Land Commission. It is absolutely not necessary. That is the reason why the law has suggested to amend the existing practice which seeks to leave this work at the national yet it has been devolved and it is the work of the National Land Commission.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Mositet)

: Division will be at the end. Clause 11

THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 11. By proposing to delete Clause 10, then the functions of the National Director of Physical Planning do not apply and the same will apply to any other clause that has the National Director of Physical Planning for the reasons stated herein before.

Division will be at the end. Clause 8

- THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 8 and substituting therefor the following new clause – The National Land Commission shall, in relation to the matters set out in this Act –

- THAT Clause 9 of the Bill be amended –

THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 12. In view of the deletion in Clause 10, the role of the National Director of Physical Planning will not apply. I propose to delete it.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Mositet) : Division will be at the end. Clause 13

- THAT Clause 13 of the Bill be amended by deleting paragraph (b) and substituting therefor the following new paragraph-

THAT the Bill be amended at Clause 13 by-

THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 10. This clause seeks to establish the Office of the National Director of Physical Planning and National Director of Physical Planning to advice the Cabinet Secretary. The same will interfere with the work of the National Land Commission. It is absolutely not necessary. That is the reason why the law has suggested to amend the existing practice which seeks to leave this work at the national yet it has been devolved and it is the work of the National Land Commission. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 15. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, Clause 15 repeats Clause 10 insofar as it puts the qualifications as the same as that of the National Director of Physical Planning. I propose to delete it in its entirety.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Mositet) : Division will be at the end. Clause 16

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I propose to drop the amendment to Clause 16 because we have established it under Clause 14 of the Bill.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Mositet) : Did you say you are dropping the amendment?

Yes, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir.

The Temporary Chairperson

(Sen. Mositet)

: So, there are no amendments on Clause 16.

Yes, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Mositet) : Division will be at the end. Clause 17

-

- THAT, Clause 18 of the Bill be amended –

- THAT, Clause 19 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by –

Division will be at the end. Clause 12

- THAT Clause 20 of the Bill be amended –

THAT Clause 12 of the Bill be amended by deleting paragraph (b) and substituting therefor the following new paragraph-

THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 12. In view of the deletion in Clause 10, the role of the National Director of Physical Planning will not apply. I propose to delete it. The Temporary Chairperson (

- THAT, Clause 22 of the Bill be amended–

Division will be at the end. Clause 13

THAT Clause 22 of the Bill be amended by deleting sub-clause (3) and substituting therefor the following new sub-clause-

- THAT Clause 13 of the Bill be amended by deleting paragraph (b) and substituting therefor the following new paragraph-

THAT the Bill be amended at Clause 13 by-

drop the amendment to Clause 13 (b). Deleting paragraph (b) is not necessary now that they have amended it to be in conformity with the law.(Question of the amendment dropped) The Temporary Chairperson (

- THAT clause 25 of the Bill be amended –

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 15. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, Clause 15 repeats Clause 10 insofar as it puts the qualifications as the same as that of the National Director of Physical Planning. I propose to delete it in its entirety. The Temporary Chairperson (

- THAT, Clause 26 of the Bill be amended by deleting the words “A Regional Physical Development” appearing in the introductory clause and substituting therefor the words “Inter-County Land Use”.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Mositet) : Division will be at the end. Clause 27

- THAT, Clause 27 of the Bill be amended by –

Did you say you are dropping the amendment? Yes, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. (Proposed amendment by

Clause 28

So, there are no amendments on Clause 16. Yes, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. (Question, that Clause 16 be part of the Bill, proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

- THAT Clause 29 of the Bill be amended –

- THAT, Clause 18 of the Bill be amended –

- THAT, Clause 19 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by –

and not the Standing Committee on Land and Natural resources. So, you are completely out of order. You need to take some coffee.

I propose that I put the questions for both the amendments but during division stage, we will allow each of you to make a presentation before we take a vote.

The Division will come at the end and each one of you would be given a chance to highlight why we should vote for the amendments.

- THAT, Clause 21 be amended –

- THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 30 and substituting therefor the following new clause–

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 31 and substituting therefor thefollowing new clause –

- THAT, Clause 32 of the Bill be amended –

preparation of inter-county land use plans, integrated county land use plans, city land use plans, urban area land use plans and sectoral plans on the National Land Use Plan.

- THAT, Clause 24 of the Bill be amended –

- THAT clause 25 of the Bill be amended –

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 35.

Clause 36

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 36.

Clause 37

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 37. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the reason I have proposed to delete sections 33 to 47 is because this is a duplication of the County Governments Act. Therefore, any further work on development plans should actually have regulations in the County Governments Act as opposed to the Physical Land Use Planning Act which ideally should just provide the framework

Division will be at the end. Clause 27

- THAT, Clause 27 of the Bill be amended by –

Clause 28

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting clause 39.

Clause 40

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 40.

Clause 41

members in charge of the counties in participating in the Inter-County Land Use Plan and to approve separate plans and submit the same to their respective county assemblies.The Temporary Chairperson (

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 43.

Clause 44

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 44.

Clause 45

So, you cannot reconcile?

Mr. Temporary Chairman,Sir, what Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., is saying is correct. There was a disagreement and we have not reconciled the amendment. So, we do not know what to do in the circumstances. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, from the beginning, I said that it will be a contradiction to have a National Director of Physical Planning while this is the role of the National Land Commission. Therefore, to attempt to reconcile their proposal with mine will be in conflict with the amendments I have proposed because physical planning is now a devolved function. This Bill is attempting to take away the role of the planners at the county level and set up a national structure which appears that every time you are in Kajiado County, you will have to seek approval at the National Land Commission Director of Physical Planning in Nairobi. That is a contradiction of the fact that this is a devolved function. It will not only set up a conflict but it will also rob the counties of the physical planning role, a jurisdiction that they have under the Constitution. That is where we have a disparity but the Senate will determine. The Temporary Chairperson (

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting clause 45. The Justification is duplication under Section 110 of the County Governments Act and Sections 38 to 41 of the Urban and Cities Act.

Clause 45

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I have heard the argument advanced by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., but Standing Order No. 138 gives us guidance on this.

It provides that:- “No amendment shall be moved which is inconsistent with any part of the Bill already agreed to or any decision already made by the Committee and the Chairperson may, at any time during the debate of a proposed amendment withdraw it from the consideration of the Committee if, in the opinion of the Chairperson, the debate has shown that the amendment contravenes this paragraph.”

If the Committee had made a decision, which is contrary to what Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. proposes, then at any given time during the debate, you have the power to withdraw it from the consideration of the Committee if in your view the amendment contravenes the paragraphs. In other words, the decision of the Committee on this would take force.

and not the Standing Committee on Land and Natural resources. So, you are completely out of order. You need to take some coffee.

I propose that I put the questions for both the amendments but during division stage, we will allow each of you to make a presentation before we take a vote.

The Division will come at the end and each one of you would be given a chance to highlight why we should vote for the amendments.

- THAT Clause 29 of the Bill be amended by deleting sub-clause (1) and substituting therefor the following new sub-clause–

- THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 30 and substituting therefor the following new clause–

- THAT, Clause 50 of the Bill be amended–

- THAT, Clause 51 of the Bill be amended–

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 33.

Clause 34

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 34.

Clause 35

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 35.

Clause 36

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 36.

Clause 37

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 37. Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the reason I have proposed to delete sections 33 to 47 is because this is a duplication of the County Governments Act. Therefore, any further work on development plans should actually have regulations in the County Governments Act as opposed to the Physical Land Use Planning Act which ideally should just provide the framework

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, that Committee does not need division of Clause 37 all together. Instead, we are proposing an amendment on the basis shown on the Order Paper and this amendment was proposed merely to correct the typographical error. The Temporary Chairman (

- THAT, Clause 63 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (2) by deleting the words “physical development” appearing immediately after the words” any regional” and substituting therefor the words “land use”;

Clause 64

THAT, Clause 64 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (2) by deleting the words “physical development” appearing immediately after the word ”All“ at the beginning of the sub-clause and substituting therefor the words “land use”.

Clause 65

Clause 66

Clause 67

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 38.

Clause 39

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Clause 68 is part of Part VI in its entirety. It begins at Clause 67 VI. That is the reason I had suggested to amend the whole of part VI which sets up a National Physical Planning Liaison Committee. The whole of Part VI speaks to the committee, its functions and work. If you allow, there is no reason for me to go clause by clause. In view of the deletion of the National Physical Forum Committee at the beginning and its role, it will be a contradiction to leave this one because it falls in the same category as it is unnecessary bureaucracy when a matter is devolved function and as the National Land Commission to set up another Physical Planning Liaison Committee with National Environmental Management Authority (NEMA) , Director General of Kenya National Highway Authority, Chief of Defense and Council of Governors; it is absolutely unnecessary.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Mositet) : Senator, because the Chair will also be having amendments, we will have to read every clause. We are now on Clause 67 Part VI.

Clause 68

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, that is why I suggested that we should read Clause 67 to the end because in the Order Paper, it appears as Clause 6. So, it is going to be technical when we come to explaining if we go clause by clause.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Mositet) : When we talk of Clause 67, it will mean the entire clause.

The whole part which is from Clause 67 to the end. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Mositet) : You want us to be specific? I propose that Part VI which begins at Clause 67 to the end of Part VI speaks about the same thing. From the way we have put it in the Order Paper, if we go clause by clause, we will end up having a problem.

The Order Paper reads: “That the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 6”. We are now reading Clauses 67, 68 and 69. That is the part that I do not understand.

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 40.

Clause 41

If it was a typo, then I beg to move:- THAT Clause 68 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new paragraph (1)-

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. This does not look tidy at all. In fact, it is going to be messy at the end of the day and it is not going to be a good reflection on us, as Senators, and the Committee I represent. We consulted with Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and agreed that we can stop at this point, do more consultations as a Committee, invite the Senators and see if we can sort this out in a manner which will be amicable and bring dignity to the proceedings of this House.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I agree with the Chair because the amendments seem to be so numerous. Now that with the proposed amendments – the proposer and the Chair are both in the House and they have agreed to refer it back to the Committee, we should go by their decision and move to the next Order.

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Mositet) : Chair, you want us to say we have done the amendment until Clause 66 and then you will consult for the rest as a Committee with the Senator?

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, that is my proposal after consulting with Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr..

The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Mositet) : Senator, can you second?

So, after I propose, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. will take over and when we will be voting, we will allow each of you to explain to the House why you want your amendment to be adopted. Clause 45

- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting clause 45. The Justification is duplication under Section 110 of the County Governments Act and Sections 38 to 41 of the Urban and Cities Act.

Clause 45

- THAT the Bill be amended in Clause 45 by-

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, maybe three weeks. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Mositet): Three weeks to think through? Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, okay. Let us try two weeks. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Mositet): Okay. You just need to consult and even one week is enough.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, give us two weeks, please. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Mositet): Okay. I am told that we are just about to go on recess again. So, one week is enough. The Chair has ruled.

- THAT, Clause 47 of the Bill be amended-

sub-clause and substituting therefor the words “land use”;

- THAT, Clause 49 of the Bill be amended–

- THAT, Clause 50 of the Bill be amended–

- THAT, Clause 51 of the Bill be amended–

the words “sub-section (3) the” and substituting therefor the words “land use”;

- THAT, Clause 52 of the Bill be amended–

- THAT, Clause 53 of the Bill be amended in –

- THAT, Clause 54 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (2) by deleting the word “planning” appearing immediately after the words “permission from the” and substituting therefor the words “land use”;

Clause 55

THAT, Clause 55 of the Bill be amended in –

- THAT, Clause 62 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by deleting the words “physical development” appearing immediately after the words” by the relevant” and substituting therefor the words “land use”;

Clause 63

- THAT, Clause 63 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (2) by deleting the words “physical development” appearing immediately after the words” any regional” and substituting therefor the words “land use”;

Clause 64

THAT, Clause 64 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (2) by deleting the words “physical development” appearing immediately after the word ”All“ at the beginning of the sub-clause and substituting therefor the words “land use”.

Clause 65

Clause 66

Clause 67

The Temporary Chairperson (

Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. intends to delete Clauses 68-83 under Part VI of the Bill, while the Chairperson wants to come up with some amendments. You will have to explain to the House before we go to the division. I will allow you to move the amendments and the Division will come later and at that time, each of you will be given time to explain. Clause 67 Part VI

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Clause 68 is part of Part VI in its entirety. It begins at Clause 67 VI. That is the reason I had suggested to amend the whole of part VI which sets up a National Physical Planning Liaison Committee. The whole of Part VI speaks to the committee, its functions and work. If you allow, there is no reason for me to go clause by clause. In view of the deletion of the National Physical Forum Committee at the beginning and its role, it will be a contradiction to leave this one because it falls in the same category as it is unnecessary bureaucracy when a matter is devolved function and as the National Land Commission to set up another Physical Planning Liaison Committee with National Environmental Management Authority (NEMA) , Director General of Kenya National Highway Authority, Chief of Defense and Council of Governors; it is absolutely unnecessary. The Temporary Chairperson (

Senator, because the Chair will also be having amendments, we will have to read every clause. We are now on Clause 67 Part VI. Clause 68 Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, that is why I suggested that we should read Clause 67 to the end because in the Order Paper, it appears as Clause 6. So, it is going to be technical when we come to explaining if we go clause by clause. The Temporary Chairperson (

When we talk of Clause 67, it will mean the entire clause. The whole part which is from Clause 67 to the end. The Temporary Chairperson (

You want us to be specific? I propose that Part VI which begins at Clause 67 to the end of Part VI speaks about the same thing. From the way we have put it in the Order Paper, if we go clause by clause, we will end up having a problem. The Order Paper reads: “That the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 6”. We are now reading Clauses 67, 68 and 69. That is the part that I do not understand.

If it was a typo, then I beg to move:- THAT Clause 68 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new paragraph (1)-

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. This does not look tidy at all. In fact, it is going to be messy at the end of the day and it is not going to be a good reflection on us, as Senators, and the Committee I represent. We consulted with Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. and agreed that we can stop at this point, do more consultations as a Committee, invite the Senators and see if we can sort this out in a manner which will be amicable and bring dignity to the proceedings of this House.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I agree with the Chair because the amendments seem to be so numerous. Now that with the proposed amendments – the proposer and the Chair are both in the House and they have agreed to refer it back to the Committee, we should go by their decision and move to the next Order. The Temporary Chairperson (

Chair, you want us to say we have done the amendment until Clause 66 and then you will consult for the rest as a Committee with the Senator?

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, that is my proposal after consulting with

Senator, can you second?

It is important to agree that the reason I sent the amendments in advance was for us to synchronize but I believe wisdom comes at a time like this. I agree with Sen. Obure, being my senior, that it is better if we sort it out at the Committee level.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.139, I beg to move that the Committee do report progress on its consideration of The Physical Planning Bill (National Assembly Bill No.46 of 2015) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow. The Temporary Chairperson (

So, how much time will you need to consult? Mr. Chairperson, make sure that you really adhere to Article 96 of the Constitution and we hope that you are all reading from the same script.

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, it is very difficult to estimate the time that we will require. The Temporary Chairperson (

Two weeks?

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, maybe three weeks. The Temporary Chairperson (

Three weeks to think through? Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, okay. Let us try two weeks. The Temporary Chairperson (

Okay. You just need to consult and even one week is enough.Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, give us two weeks, please. The Temporary Chairperson (

Okay. I am told that we are just about to go on recess again. So, one week is enough. The Chair has ruled.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to report progress; that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Physical Planning Bill (National Assembly Bill No.46 of 2015) and seeks leave to sit again tomorrow.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report.

Next, Order.

November 9, 2016 SENATE DEBATES (SENATE BILL NO. 11 OF 2016) THE CYBER SECURITY AND PROTECTION BILL (SENATE BILL NO. 12 OF 2016) THE WAREHOUSE RECEIPTS SYSTEM BILL (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY BILL NO. 12 OF 2015)

challenges facing Kenya’s sovereignty identified at independence, namely; poverty, illiteracy and disease;

APPRECIATING the gains made following the implementation of the free primary education program in 2003 and cognizant of the principles set out in the Basic Education Act of 2013 whose objectives include promotion and regulation of free and compulsory basic education besides providing for accreditation, registration and management of basic education institutions;

NOTING the substantial resources invested by the national and county governments, parents, sponsors and development partners in the provision of basic education;

FURTHER NOTING that pursuant to the Basic Education Act, the County Director of Education is vested with numerous responsibilities including facilitation of auditing of all basic educational institutions in the respective county thereby leaving fundamental gaps of governance especially in the management of the available resources;

NOW THEREFORE, the House recommends to the Cabinet Secretary for Education to facilitate the creation of the office of an auditor to specifically audit the basic education institutions’ funds to enhance transparency and accountability and improve governance in the management of these institutions.

(Motion deferred)

Hon. Senators, there being no other business, the Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 10th November, 2016, at