Tuesday, 20th July, 2016

Hon. Senators, we will start with those Senators who want to seek Statements. Is there no Senator seeking for a Statement? Let us proceed to the Statements in the appendix.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on Statement (d), the Cabinet Secretary (CS) was present during our meeting today and he informed us that the Sewage Department is not within his docket. He does not deal with construction of sewerage plants. He said that the House could, perhaps, redirect the issue to the Housing Ministry.

Why was it referred to the Roads and Transport Ministry, in the first instance?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not know for we had raised this the last time with the Speaker and we thought that it had been corrected.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I remember alerting the Chair then about this question. I told him that I thought that this question was supposed to be handled by the Chairman of Water and Irrigation Committee. I asked this question in the Ninth Parliament, I was given an answer by the Minister for Irrigation and Water and I wanted to make a follow up. She is correct when she says that the question should be rerouted.

I am just a bit surprised that it was referred to the Ministry of Roads and Transport in the first instance because it is not infrastructure.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Speaker then said he would redirect it to the right Committee. I do not know why it has appeared now in the Order Paper.

Order, Senators!.

Bw. Naibu Spika, Kamati inayo deal na swala la maji ni Kamati ya Ardhi---

What is your point of order, Sen. (Dr.) Machage?

Bw. Naibu Spika, twajua kwamba kanuni za Bunge hili zinaturuhusu kutumia lugha moja unapozungumza. Ikiwa umechagua lugha ya Kiingereza unaendelea nayo hadi mwisho wa hotuba yako. Ukichagua Kiswahili basi utatumia Kiswahili hadi tamati. Sen. Boy Juma Boy anachanganya ndimi. Anasema Kamati inayo deal. Neno deal ni la Kiingeraza?

I think Sen. Boy Juma Boy knows that he is wrong. He knows he is out of order. Could you do what is right Sen. Boy Juma Boy.

Bw. Naibu Spika, Kamati inayohusika na swala la maji na ardhi ni Kamati ya Ardhi na Mazingira. Mimi ni mwanachama wa Kamati hii na nitalishughulikia swala hili na kuleta jibu kwa muda wa wiki moja.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am worried because I do not think that is the right Committee.

I know you should be because I am also not sure that is the correct Committee. What I would want you to do, because I do not want us to lose another two weeks---. I do not even know whether this construction of Kirinyaga Sewerage Plant is a function of the national Government or is a function of the County Government. We need to be clear on this issue so as to know the exact

County Government of Kirinyaga, then the right place for this question to be raised will be in the County Assembly of Kirinyaga.

I am not sure and I am not preempting the situation. However, I do not want us to make an order that we take another two weeks, we come here and you are, once again, told that it is not possible for you to get a Statement. My proposal to you would be; let us defer this matter to tomorrow afternoon, decide and get it right as to which Committee the Statement should be directed; then bring it up again tomorrow afternoon. That would be my advice to you. However, if you want us to refer it to the Ministry of Lands, we will do it, if you do not mind losing another two weeks.

What is your point of order, Sen. Mositet?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is not a point of order. I want to put more weight on the subject. That particular question should be answered by the Chairperson of Lands because sewerage or huge water projects are implemented through the water service boards, which falls under the Ministry of Water and Irrigation. That could be the reason the CS of Ministry Roads and Transport felt that the query should be addressed by the Ministry of Water and Irrigation.

We are told that there is no Committee on Water.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we do not have a Committee on Water, but anything to do or related to it is normally answered by---

That is why Sen. Mositet, I am of the view that the ruling I have given would be right. Let Sen. Karaba make up his mind and decide to whom to direct the question.

Obliged, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

That will be looked at tomorrow. The next Statement is also sought by Sen. Karaba.

Sen. Karaba, what is the issue?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wanted to go by your direction. The advice that you have given supersedes mine. We will, therefore, go by what you have suggested to do. Over this question on sewerage---

Come up with the issue tomorrow. Raise it again and refer to this ruling or this direction and let us get it tomorrow.

Much obliged, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

The next question also has to do with you, Sen. Karaba.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Statement is ready. This was a request for a Statement on the status of Wanguru Airstrip in Mwea, ongoing renovation of the Kimbimbi-Sagana-Kagio-Kutus and Ngurubani-Kimbimbi roads.

Supplementary questions were asked by a number of Senators with regard to the ongoing renovation of the Sagana-Kagio-Kutus and Ngurubani-Kimbimbi roads. The specific questions were:-

Sen. Karaba, you may proceed.

It is not possible---

I thought she concluded.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I suppose so because the response was supposed to address the issue of the airstrip.

But she started with that one!

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank Sen. Sijeny for that elaborate answer. However, it is misleading in the sense that even the engineers themselves are attesting to the fact that they could not complete that section because of poor weather conditions which still persist. Why are they saying that they have already worked on the potholes? The weather could not allow them to fill the potholes. So far, no works have been done on that road. The current status is correct because I am always on that road. Even today I drove on that road and it is in bad shape. Could we, therefore, instruct that the engineer visits the roads to see if I am telling the truth or it is him who is being misled so that the construction works can continue unabated?

What they are saying now about the new design that they should have done earlier, is that there is an increase in population particularly in urban centres. Ngurubani is one of the most sprawling towns in Kenya where the population has outstripped the area. All the people converge on the road.

Sen. Karaba, are you seeking a clarification or making a statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am seeking a clarification as I explain why I want that road widened. It is because of the increased number of users. So far, nothing has happened.

Sen. Sijeny, the Cabinet Secretary (CS) for Roads and Infrastructure was here today. Was this one of the roads that were discussed with him?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Sen. Karaba is saying that he was not satisfied with the discussion.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is true. The last time we were in session I announced that the Cabinet Secretary would be coming today. We tried reaching Sen. Karaba, he did not turn up to interrogate the CS. We were of the opinion he was satisfied with the Statement. Be that as it may, every issue he has raised is being addressed and shall be adequately done according to the schedule and subject to the availability of funds as has been indicated.

I would like to continue with the next Statement on the airstrip. Have we finished with statement on the road? Is the airstrip part of this question? I thought this has to do with the issue of the Makutano-Ngumbani-Kimbimbi-Samson Corner road only.

Yes, I am guided accordingly, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

I have a short Communication to make. Hon. Senators, I wish to recognize the presence of the visiting students from Egerton University from Murang’a County. In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to them and on behalf of the Senate, and on my own behalf, wish them a fruitful visit.

Thank you.

On a point of order Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I join you in recognizing the students who are seated at the public gallery. They are from my university. I was a lecturer there on a sabbatical leave now. Egerton is a very renowned university. It is the only university with a distinction, North of River Limpopo and south of Sahara. I did my two degrees there. The students there might end up in all spheres of life, politics being one of them. I congratulate the students and urge them to be role models in our counties and country. They should teach their colleagues and young brethren in secondary schools that burning dormitories is not allowed and does not pay.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I join you and the House to welcome the delegation from Egerton University. It could just be a matter of coincidence that the group that came was drawn from only one county. That was not meant to represent some divisions within the University. When we were in the university, and not so long ago---

Order, Sen. M. Kajwang’! In my communication I said they are students from Egerton University who are from Murang’a County. They are not a delegation representing Egerton University. They are students from Murang’a County who are pursuing their degree courses in Egerton University. Is that clear now?

I am very well guided, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to tell the young men and women sitting up there that when we were at the university which was not too long ago, we did not have differences amongst us depending on where one came from. It is unfortunate that once we leave the university, we start imposing some of those differences which are really artificial. I encourage the young men and women at the university to ensure they live the spirit of nationalism. They should look at Kenya as a country not as a collection of counties or tribes.

Finally, I assure them that this Senate has taken, with a lot of concern, some of the issues that are coming out of Murang’a County. I hope when they go back to the grassroots they will be the champions of transparency and accountability. As young leaders, they should play their role to ensure those elected do the right thing with the public funds entrusted to them.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am delighted to see the people of Murang’a so that they can see the Deputy Speaker who is also their Senator. The Chair is a very able leader who has really guided this House. I hope they will learn something about his leadership. Therefore, may they feel welcome.

The Senate Leader of Minority (Sen. Wetangula): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I join you and the House in welcoming the students from your County who are studying in Egerton University. They are actually very few. Egerton is a great University founded by one of the top scholars from the Mulembe nation called Prof. Richard Musangi. He spent a lot of time and energy to bring that university to where it is.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I tell them that they have a good Senator who is our Deputy Speaker in this House. I always pride myself with the distinction that I proposed him to be made an ambassador. He worked with distinction in Brussels. I would also like to say that your county is not very famous in this Chamber because of the mismanagement of public funds and other transgressions. As you go through school, please join the queue of the minority of Kenyans who are upright, honest and straightforward, who know that public funds are not private property. Go and make sure your county looks better than it does now.

Thank you, Sen. Wetangula. Sen. Omondi, I am assuming that it is on this issue.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want join you to welcome the students who have visited the Senate. Secondly, I am neither happy nor convinced with the response to the Statement given by Sen. Sijeny on the Sen. Karaba’s question.

I request that we get a clarification on what the Ministry is doing to give protection to persons with disabilities using public roads in terms of talking robots to allow the visually impaired to cross roads safely, drop-out roads connecting to other roads for persons using wheelchairs and paintings used to show the direction for the hearing impaired. She should clarify whether the users who are persons with disabilities-- -

Sen. Omondi, I notice you have moved on to the statement being sought. I assume that we have finished with the students.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I join you and the House in welcoming the students from your County who are studying in Egerton University. They are actually very few. Egerton is a great University founded by one of the top scholars from the Mulembe nation called Prof. Richard Musangi. He spent a lot of time and energy to bring that university to where it is.Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I tell them that they have a good Senator who is our Deputy Speaker in this House. I always pride myself with the distinction that I proposed him to be made an ambassador. He worked with distinction in Brussels. I would also like to say that your county is not very famous in this Chamber because of the mismanagement of public funds and other transgressions. As you go through school, please join the queue of the minority of Kenyans who are upright, honest and straightforward, who know that public funds are not private property. Go and make sure your county looks better than it does now.Thank you, Sen. Wetangula. Sen. Omondi, I am assuming that it is on this issue.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want join you to welcome the students who have visited the Senate. Secondly, I am neither happy nor convinced with the response to the Statement given by Sen. Sijeny on the Sen. Karaba’s question.

I request that we get a clarification on what the Ministry is doing to give protection to persons with disabilities using public roads in terms of talking robots to allow the visually impaired to cross roads safely, drop-out roads connecting to other roads for persons using wheelchairs and paintings used to show the direction for the hearing impaired. She should clarify whether the users who are persons with disabilities-- -

Sen. Omondi, I notice you have moved on to the statement being sought. I assume that we have finished with the students.

On a point of order Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I appreciate the visit by the university students to the Senate. I want to tell them that I am the Chairman of the Committee on Education.

Therefore, they should display student life with distinction.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have noticed another group of students who have come in. I do not know if we should continue recognising them as usual. They are girls dressed in red uniform from a high school. They are welcomed to the Senate and they should enjoy their stay there.

Sen. Karaba, without trying to preempt you, you are now doing my work. I will not allow you to go to the public gallery as you are proposing. May I thank all of you for that moment? Once I get a record of who the lady students are, I will recognize them as necessary.

Sen. Karaba, we were dealing with the issue of the road and I do not know if it is over.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is not over. Sen. Mositet, you wanted to raise an issue about roads?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, having listened to the Statement which had been sought by the Senator and the answer which was issue by the Chairman, it seems Sen. Karaba is much interested in knowing whether the shoulders were well done or they are being done.

It is shocking because the roads in our county are so bad that we do not even talk about shoulders. When you drive between Ngong to Kiserian or to other parts of Kajiado and you hear a Senator talk of shoulders of a road, you see disparity in our counties.

It is high time the Ministry of Transport and Infrastructure realizes that we have some counties that have poor roads. The Ministry should make sure that when funds are allocated, there are areas that deserve more than others. I am not saying the shoulders do not need to be attended to - because I have seen that Sen. Karaba is concerned with the road users like motorcyclists and pedestrians - but the ministry should know that some areas are needy.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have not seen the regulations by the NTSA in the House. I do not know if the motor cycle association have been consulted or whether public hearings have been conducted so that they can contribute to the formulation of the regulations. It is an area that we need to know.

In terms of bumps, the KeNHA have done major roads for instance Athi-River - Namanga. However, along that road, we do not have bumps.

Sen. Mositet this is Statement hour. We are seeking Statements.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not seeking. Sen. Mositet, I hear you but we are now getting clarifications on the Statement sought by Sen. Karaba. Even if you talk about bumps on the Athi-River – Namanga Road, we will not get an answer now because we are dealing with a specific issue at the moment.

because bumps have not been erected.

Sen. Mositet, I want you to seek a clarification on the Statement issued by Sen. Karaba. If you talk about other roads at this moment and you are not seeking an answer from them, I am sure that the Chairperson of the Committee will not answer you; unless you only need a general reaction to what you are saying.

because bumps have not been erected.

Sen. Mositet, I want you to seek a clarification on the Statement issued by Sen. Karaba. If you talk about other roads at this moment and you are not seeking an answer from them, I am sure that the Chairperson of the Committee will not answer you; unless you only need a general reaction to what you are saying.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the issue of bumps was not addressed and I truly believe that any highway requires bumps. I do not know if there was an oversight by the KeNHA on that particular road or on all roads because we have that problem all over the country. The Senate Minority Leader (

that road?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, how I wish my colleagues would have attended the meeting on the issue of these roads. It is not easy for the Cabinet Secretary (CS) to come here all the time. I had announced and told my colleagues to avail themselves. Some of these reactions would have been explained into finer detail by the CS.

Be that as it may, on the issue of regulation raised by Sen. Mositet, the Committee on Delegated Legislation had looked at these regulations. There has been public participation. Perhaps what we could do is to avail the report to hon. Senators.

On the issue of the NTSA securing our road, this is something new---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I appreciate Sen. Karaba’s concerns about the shoulders of the good roads in his county. He also mentioned the issue about safety on the roads. May the Chairperson of the Committee tell this House and the country what steps the NTSA are taking to secure our roads? We have noticed that in the last four months, we have had grisly fatal accidents all over and more particularly at a black spot at Salgaa on the road between Nakuru and Eldoret. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are losing too many lives at a black spot on the road between Nakuru and Eldoret called Salgaa. We are losing entire families and many other lives. Instead of the Jubilee Government improving safety on the roads, they are recycling old guards. They moved a man who had failed in drugs called hon. Mututho to the National Transport and Safety Authority (NTSA) --- Order! Sen. Wetangula, I wish that you could raise the issue of Salgaa and other black spots as a substantive question so that we get a proper question on the NTSA as against riding on a question, but you will not get a satisfactory answer at the moment. I agree with you that the accidents and black spots are a matter of great concern. I wish that you could raise it as a substantive issue for your own statement. The Senate Minority Leader (

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. That supplementary question was not to do with the death of motorcyclists. It had to do with the road which is completely finished and in use. It is not about road users. The road is bad.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Is it in order for the distinguished lady, Vice Chairperson of the Committee, to tell this House that the NTSA is formulating policies and rules about road carnage when this country knows that a distinguished man from Murang’a, called hon. John Njoroge Michuki, became a Minister for Transport and within two months, he demonstrated ably to this country that it is not a shortage of rules or law, but a shortage of will that we have accidents. In no time, the lunacy in the matatu industry was cleared;

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, a further statement was sought about the Eldoret-Kitale-Kapenguria Road. However, I have not heard her give

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Chairperson should explain to us what punitive measures or enhanced penalties are meted out to those who misuse the roads. The major issue is indiscipline. There is no other issue. So, it is not about the rules or explanations that are supposed to be given. It comes out of individuals who do so deliberately, operate with impunity and believe that they are above the law. On our roads, the recklessness and abandon with which matatu drivers operate depicts individuals who are completely devoid of any consideration of law.

I recall that hon. Jakoyo Midiwo moved a Bill in the National Assembly that was supposed to increase the penalties that are meted out to individuals who break the law. What is the position regarding the penalties? The reason why the United Kingdom is a safe driving place is because if you commit a traffic offence, the penalty is so high but you are never warned to do it. So, can we consider or have considered any such measures?

This statement has mutated. It was on a specific road but now we are discussing the National Transport and Safety Authority (NTSA) . I am sure Sen. Karaba is confused about what is going on because he had sought to know about the shoulders of his road yet we are discussing NTSA.

Sen. Hargura, what is your point of order?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I attended the meeting today with the Cabinet Secretary. There was an issue which was requested for by Sen. Wetangula on annuity. For the benefit of the hon. Senators who did not attend, we were told that the annuity of the 10,000 Kilometres is not there. Instead, we have the low volume sealed roads. There were two batches which were done before---

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. That supplementary question was not to do with the death of motorcyclists. It had to do with the road which is completely finished and in use. It is not about road users. The road is bad. The Senate Minority Leader (

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not seeking a clarification. I just wanted to assist my Chairperson.

Are you informing the Chairperson?

good Lord rest the late hon. John Njoroge Michuki in eternal peace.Is she in order to tell us that the NTSA led by a man who does not know whether he is going or coming called hon. John Mututho is now formulating new rules when we have rules in the country?Is hon. John Mututho the Chairman of the NTSA?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform hon. Senators that there is the new low volume sealed road programme which is now being undertaken by the Ministry of Roads and Infrastructure. They have to do at least a road per county. Already 4,000 kilometres have been tendered. The next 3,300 is being tendered, that is Batch 2E. Out of the 4,000 kilometres, already tenders have been awarded for 1,700 kilometres. It is the responsibility of the hon. Senators to follow up with the Ministry to see whether their counties have been taken into account.

That brings us to the end of that statement. On the issue of the specific road, as Sen. Sijeny has said, when the Cabinet Secretary is invited to come and deal with an issue like this one, in my view, it is important that any Senator concerned with an issue like that should, as much as possible, try to avail themselves so that they can interrogate the situation in much more depth. Of course, that is an issue for the specific Senator but I agree with Sen. Sijeny on that specific point.

What is it, Sen. Wetangula? The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. In management of our programmes, sometimes information is given from the Chair that a certain Cabinet Secretary is coming – you can see how few we are now – it will be desirable for the office of the Clerk to follow up with communication by way of a memo to hon. Senators so that we are made aware to attend such meetings. When there is communication from the Chair – I know we are supposed to be here but we also know that some of our colleagues are in committees elsewhere, other meetings and so on.

I would have loved to attend that meeting but I did not even know about it. I am sure there are others who did not know about it. For instance, the distinguished Senator for Kwale did not know, Sen. Karaba, Sen. Haji and many others. Probably you did not also know. So, we need to have better communication so that we can elect to go to these very important meetings to pursue matters affecting our counties.

Sen. Wetangula, I agree with you. Sen. Sijeny had done her best. She circulated a note and said that the meeting would be in Committee Room No.5. However, as a matter of procedure, I agree with Sen. Wetangula. I direct that when a communication is made on an important issue like that one, for instance, a Cabinet Secretary coming to discuss a certain issue, a normal circular is made to hon. Senators to alert them. This information can be placed in their pigeon holes. It should not be assumed that hon. Senators are necessarily in the House all the time. It is important. If Sen. Karaba had come to the meeting in the morning, if he had known about it, I am sure we would have saved a lot of time that we have now spent

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, he is. He was recently appointed.Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as much as I appreciate that there are some existing regulations, there are certain things which are different. Times have changed. We need to harmonize them to ensure progress. By then we did not have the boda boda menace which is now extreme. We have to look at them. As we said earlier, most of the accidents are caused by lack of proper appreciation of the laws and lack of sensitization. Sensitization needs to be done in collaboration with the county commissioners all over the country. It should be devolved to the counties. By then, things were being done at the national level. That is why the Government should embark on proper sensitization to ensure everybody adheres to the rules.Sen. Kagwe, are you on a point of order? What is the issue?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Chairperson should explain to us what punitive measures or enhanced penalties are meted out to those who misuse the roads. The major issue is indiscipline. There is no other issue. So, it is not about the rules or explanations that are supposed to be given. It comes out of individuals who do so deliberately, operate with impunity and believe that they are above the law. On our roads, the recklessness and abandon with which matatu drivers operate depicts individuals who are completely devoid of any consideration of law.

I recall that hon. Jakoyo Midiwo moved a Bill in the National Assembly that was supposed to increase the penalties that are meted out to individuals who break the law. What is the position regarding the penalties? The reason why the United Kingdom is a safe driving place is because if you commit a traffic offence, the penalty is so high but you are never warned to do it. So, can we consider or have considered any such measures?

This statement has mutated. It was on a specific road but now we are discussing the National Transport and Safety Authority (NTSA) . I am sure Sen. Karaba is confused about what is going on because he had sought to know about the shoulders of his road yet we are discussing NTSA.

Sen. Hargura, what is your point of order?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I attended the meeting today with the Cabinet Secretary. There was an issue which was requested for by Sen. Wetangula on annuity. For the benefit of the hon. Senators who did not attend, we were told that the annuity of the 10,000 Kilometres is not there. Instead, we have the low volume sealed roads. There were two batches which were done before---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, by us.

Has she answered you?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not seeking a clarification. I just wanted to assist my Chairperson.

Are you informing the Chairperson?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Proceed.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to inform hon. Senators that there is the new low volume sealed road programme which is now being undertaken by the Ministry of Roads and Infrastructure. They have to do at least a road per county. Already 4,000 kilometres have been tendered. The next 3,300 is being tendered, that is Batch 2E. Out of the 4,000 kilometres, already tenders have been awarded for 1,700 kilometres. It is the responsibility of the hon. Senators to follow up with the Ministry to see whether their counties have been taken into account. That brings us to the end of that statement. On the issue of the specific road, as Sen. Sijeny has said, when the Cabinet Secretary is invited to come and deal with an issue like this one, in my view, it is important that any Senator concerned with an issue like that should, as much as possible, try to avail themselves so that they can interrogate the situation in much more depth. Of course, that is an issue for the specific Senator but I agree with Sen. Sijeny on that specific point. What is it, Sen. Wetangula? The Senate Minority Leader (

I thought you gave an answer for that.

He could perhaps read his statement for any other clarification. we shall end that statement at that point.

Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I even sent a message through WhatsApp. They should embrace digital.

morning.

Sen. Karaba, what is your point of order?

By who?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, by us.

Has she answered you?

No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I thought she answered you.

You have an answer from Nairobi County. Do you not?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is not the first time it is being given. It was there the last time and we said it was unsatisfactory and Sen. Elachi also agreed.

So you called for a meeting with them?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, for a proper response because what they gave was unsatisfactory.

When are you going to give this Statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what date will be on Tuesday after Thursday, next week?

Do you have a proposed date with Nairobi County?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Thursday, 28th of July. So, you will, issue the Statement two weeks from now.

Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I am most obliged. It is so ordered. Sen. Nabwala is not in the House. Is that yours Sen. Madzayo?

I thought you gave an answer for that.

He could perhaps read his statement for any other clarification. we shall end that statement at that point.

Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I even sent a message through WhatsApp. They should embrace digital.

I stood with you but not everybody accesses your WhatsApp page.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to seek a Statement from the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Education concerning the issue of

teacher training colleges (TTC’s) and the Kenya Medical Colleges(KMTC). In the Statement, the Chairperson should address the following:-

You have an answer from Nairobi County. Do you not?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is not the first time it is being given. It was there the last time and we said it was unsatisfactory and Sen. Elachi also agreed.

So you called for a meeting with them?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes, for a proper response because what they gave was unsatisfactory.

When are you going to give this Statement?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what date will be on Tuesday after Thursday, next week?

Do you have a proposed date with Nairobi County?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Thursday, 28th of July. So, you will, issue the Statement two weeks from now.

Mr. Deputy Speaker Sir, I am most obliged. It is so ordered. Sen. Nabwala is not in the House. Is that yours Sen. Madzayo?

I see. Sen. Wetangula.

The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Wetangula) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the answer, the Chair should also tell us the Government policy or the policy guidelines of the Government on bursaries. I say this because I encounter a lot of students every other day. You will find that a student in the university with a fee balance of about Kshs80,000 per annum is granted a bursary of Kshs3,000 and these are children from destitute families. If we really want to give bursaries to students, they must be meaningful bursaries. It is better to give a few students full bursaries to learn than spreading meaninglessly thin to a level where they are of no effect. A student may turn up with a bursary cheque of Kshs5,000 and the school receives it and sends them back home

It is so ordered.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am most obliged.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just wanted to follow up on what Sen. Wetangula said. We cannot run an education system on populist lines. Money resources are very scarce in this nation that if you spread them thin and if we allow multiple sources of giving bursaries to students, we will be playing populists and, therefore, not serious. If we are serious about higher or basic education, the Government should come up with a single policy of financing education. At the moment, education is in the hands of the national Government. Therefore, it should take the responsibility of financing education and leave governors, MPs and so on out of it because it is not working. That is being populists.

In a country like the United States of America (USA) you will find that when education is under a state government, that state government has a clear policy of education. People know exactly what their entitlements are and if you know that you cannot qualify to go to a state university, very early, your parents begin saving money for you or you borrow money and you know when you will pay it. This idea of postponing or avoiding responsibility is not working. So, rather than seeking a private audience with my friend Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, Sen. Karaba should go to the Cabinet Secretary (CS) in charge of Education and tell him that according to the Senate, this whole system of financing education is not working.

teacher training colleges (TTC’s) and the Kenya Medical Colleges(KMTC). In the Statement, the Chairperson should address the following:-

Thank you Senator. You have reiterated very well what Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o has said.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to ride on the request by Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo so that when the Chair goes to seek the answers, we need to know where the Jubilee policy of free secondary has reached, considering the fact that the Kibaki Regime gave assurances and started a policy of Free Primary Education (FPE) which is fairly on track. I would like that addressed as well.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have an additional issue to ride on item

Yes.

I would also like you to consider seriously the issue of policy as requested by the Senate. Like my colleagues have said, if a student is truly destitute – there are many students who are truly destitute – and the school demands, for example, Kshs25,000 for the first term and you give that student a bursary of Kshs2,000, that is money down the drain and money wasted because that child will stay in school for a week and then be send home afterwards. The MP will say that they have already disbursed bursaries and that is the end of the story.

The child will stay at home and that will be a waste. Therefore, it is important that we, as a Senate, are clear on policy guidelines of all the bursaries and other funds, whether devolved or otherwise, that are being used in the counties so that we do not have wastage and as many students as possible can benefit. It is important that you put all those issues that have been raised to account as you get answers for this.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Last time, I think it was the afternoon session of 14th July that began at 2.30 p.m., I had a statement that was to be issued by the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget. Actually, the statement was issues by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. on behalf of my Chairman. However, you will realise that there were two statements. One was from the CS, Mr. Rotich, who is in charge of Finance. There was also another one from the County Executive Committee (CEC) member in charge of finance from Kisumu County and the two statements did not tell the same story. We requested that the statements be referred back to the authors and make sure that we get one statement in this House that would not lead to that contradiction. Since then, I have not been told when this statement will be issued. However, as per last week’s agreement, according to the HANSARD, the Statement was to be delivered this week.

Sen. Billow, that has to do with your committee.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I seek the indulgence of the Senator to kindly repeat because I was busy consulting with another Senator.

You are seeking the indulgence of the Senator or of the Speaker?

The Speaker. Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’ Nyong’o, may I request you to kindly repeat.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me just summarize to my chair what the situation is. Last week, Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. read a statement on your behalf on the issue of financing of Jaramogi Oginga Odinga Teaching and Referral Hospital in Kisumu County. I had sought a statement to be issued on why the county government had not issued the conditional grants to Kisumu County from the Financial Year 2013/2014 up to now, according to the grants that were made. The statement from the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasurywas very comprehensive and gave reasons and the amount given.

The statement from the Executive member in charge of Finance, Planning and Economic Development from Kisumu told a different story. So, the House decided that this statement should be returned so that each entity could work with the other one to give a coherent statement to the Senate so that we know exactly what has happened to the conditional grants for Jaramogi Oginga Odinga Teaching and Referral Hospital.

Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’ Nyong’o, my tracking record shows that the answer is due tomorrow 21st July, 2016. So, now that Sen. Billow is here, I hope he is going to follow it up to know whether we are going to have a combined answer tomorrow.

Thank you Senator. You have reiterated very well what Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o has said.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just want to ride on the request by Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo so that when the Chair goes to seek the answers, we need to know where the Jubilee policy of free secondary has reached, considering the fact that the Kibaki Regime gave assurances and started a policy of Free Primary Education (FPE) which is fairly on track. I would like that addressed as well.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have an additional issue to ride on item

Yes.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is okay. We can read the statement tomorrow.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Last time, I think it was the afternoon session of 14th July that began at 2.30 p.m., I had a statement that was to be issued by the Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Finance, Commerce and Budget. Actually, the statement was issues by Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr. on behalf of my Chairman. However, you will realise that there were two statements. One was from the CS, Mr. Rotich, who is in charge of Finance. There was also another one from the County Executive Committee (CEC) member in charge of finance from Kisumu County and the two statements did not tell the same story. We requested that the statements be referred back to the authors and make sure that we get one statement in this House that would not lead to that contradiction. Since then, I have not been told when this statement will be issued. However, as per last week’s agreement, according to the HANSARD, the Statement was to be delivered this week.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the distinguished Senator from Meru County is not in the chamber, he is out there on very distinguished national duty, Co-Chairing the Joint Committee on Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) with Sen. Orengo. So, on his behalf, I would want to welcome the students and encourage them to be good students. We have not heard of any dormitory burnt in their school yet and we hope there will be none. Their distinguished Senator is much respected in this House. He is called “the King” and we hope that on his behalf, we can make you as comfortable and be able to learn as you possibly can.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for also allowing me this chance to welcome the two schools; Loreto High School, Limuru and Nkuene Girls High School to this House. I wish them the best of their stay here and luck as they continue preparing for their Kenya Certificate of Secondary Education (KCSE) exams this year. I warn them that cheating of exams which was prevalent last year---. That should be something of the past and should not be entertained. Students should be discouraged from imagining that burning of schools and dormitories is a solution to their problems. It is not a solution but a problem created to the parents.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also take the opportunity to welcome these young Kenyans to this eminent House. Remember that they are the leaders of today and they should not wait for tomorrow. They should copy the best examples and discard the worst examples and they will make Kenya a good country.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to join my colleagues in welcoming these students here and on behalf of the Kenya Women Senators, I want to encourage these young women that it is possible to become whatever you desire to be and I hope that they can see that even in the leadership in this House, we have 18 women. I want to tell them that they can be where they want to be and pick only the good things and sieve the bad ones. I say that because even in school destruction, there are very few

Thank you Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wanted to suggest, with the concurrence of the Senator, a better way of dealing with this because we have dealt with it before and like he said, we have not brought a very comprehensive answer. I want to suggest a meeting where we will get the Treasury and the county government CEC member for Finance to appear before our committee. The issue of reconciling the two figures is a matter that we dealt with earlier and were not able to get a satisfactory response because the county government argues that there are delays and the Treasury says there are no delays. So, I would have requested that if we can invite these two parties next week and the Senator joins us to get a more comprehensive statement from both.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Sen. (Prof.) Anyang’ Nyong’o, that is not satisfactory for you?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I agree with the Chair that we should invite both parties to come to the Committee, in the mean time since they have already submitted a statement to be read tomorrow, we should receive that statement and that statement be part of the discussion so that no excuse is given that we had already submitted a statement to the Senate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is okay. We can read the statement tomorrow.

So, you will endevour to give us an answer tomorrow then we can see how best we will proceed from there.

Hon. Senators, before we proceed to the next order, I have another short Communication to make regarding our students.

Thank you. Sen. Wetangula you want to say something about the students?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is a point of order on Sen. Okong’o’s sentiments.

No. I rule out that point of order. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo has given his opinion. Good or bad, that is his opinion. The young ladies will take it in that stride. They are with their teachers and they should be able to distinguish what is good or bad.

Like I joined in welcoming them, my request to them is that they consider seriously– like I said last week – the preamble to the Constitution and also the section of national values and the heritage of this country.

Next Order! Hon. Senators, as you know, there are some Committees going on right now and there are other issues that affect the quorum in the House. I will reorganize the Order Paper and defer OrdersNo.8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you for also allowing me this chance to welcome the two schools; Loreto High School, Limuru and Nkuene Girls High School to this House. I wish them the best of their stay here and luck as they continue preparing for their Kenya Certificate of Secondary Education (KCSE) exams this year. I warn them that cheating of exams which was prevalent last year---. That should be something of the past and should not be entertained. Students should be discouraged from imagining that burning of schools and dormitories is a solution to their problems. It is not a solution but a problem created to the parents.

The next Order is Order No.10. Could I have the list of the record?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I understand after Order No.10 which has only 15 minutes to go, we will move to No.19.

tell them to continue in that route and congratulations for coming to the Senate. They should pick what should apply to their lives and be where they want to be.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, since everyone is declaring a capacity, I also want to welcome the young ladies from the two schools; in my capacity as a member of the Kenya Young Parliamentarians Association, I am an active Member with Sen. Wangari. I just want to encourage the young girls that youth or gender should not be a disability. It should also not be the basis upon which you request to be considered. If you are to look at gender, the world is moving to a situation where the leading economies are now being led by women. In the United Kingdom, Theresa May has taken over. In Germany, Angela Merkel is holding the reigns. In the United States, God willing and if I had a vote, Hillary Clinton would be the next President of the United States of America (USA) .

We are going to see a future where there will be a lady leading this nation. I do hope that they will be the ones making that history, but better still, if someone can make that history before you because where the world is, it does not matter whether you are a lady or a gentleman. What matters is your character, industry and the kind of love you have for the people.So, I want to wish them well and I want to encourage them not to look at their gender as a disability or as a basis upon which they should be invited to the high table.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also wish to welcome the young ladies who are the future presidents and leaders of this country. In my capacity as the chairperson of the Kenya Women Senators Association, the next time, I will expect one of them to be standing here in their capacity. I know I am a Nominated Senator but as my colleague as just said, this is the time when women are being elected into key positions in this world and I believe through your help and support and all your relatives who are in Nairobi, you will also assist me to be elected as the first woman Member of Parliament for Langata Constituency in 2017.

I can see you are using that as a campaign platform.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me also join my colleagues in welcoming the students and the teachers. I would like to remind them that the two schools, this one in Limuru and the other one that has come from Meru County, that there is Mt. Kenya between them. If you face Mt. Kenya, bad manners disappear. I am saying this because students are “erupting” to some activities that do not make sense. Yesterday, a few burned down their dormitories. Why are they burning their dormitories? Only the other day, my school burned a dormitory only to discover that they only burned their clothes. So, the loser is not the school but the students.

I thank the girls and tell them that any time they experience a problem like that, look at Mt. Kenya and everything shall be well.

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I thought the good Professor from West Pokot County would have just used his credentials to talk to the young girls. The history that we have about facing Mt. Kenya ---

Why do you call them young girls? They are either young ladies or girls.

a rigorous programme of vetting before they were employed by the county public service boards--- We know that even the county public service boards are at the whim of the governors.

The County Public Accounts and Investment Committee (CPAIC) that is chaired by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o, and I am the Vice Chair, is now in receipt of a document from a forum called ‘Chairmen of County Public Service Boards,’ where a number of them have resigned and some are saying that their lives are in danger if they do not listen to what the inaugural governors say. We should not compare the national Government with the county governments. The structure that we have here is to make devolution work, so that people can enjoy the fruits of devolution. People should not enjoy their positions without caring what happens.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as indicated in this Bill, we are planning to put precise descriptions that will not compete with those of chiefs. Sometimes meetings are called without knowing who will address them. You will find the chiefs, the sub-chiefs, the Assistant County Commissioners and ward administrators claiming that the meeting is theirs.

We should amalgamate the roles of the national Government at the county level and the county governments and have a system that makes sense, so that we do not have problems in future. I want to assure those that are already feeling jittery that they should not waste their time and public funds by coming to Nairobi to parade themselves in Bomas of Kenya for three days trying to fight this Bill. This Bill is there to make lives better. I give that undertaking as the Mover. Together with my colleagues, we will address and shape this Bill to the desired destiny, for the good of the people of Kenya.

I beg to move. Should we put the question?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is a point of order on Sen. Okong’o’s sentiments.

No. I rule out that point of order. Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo has given his opinion. Good or bad, that is his opinion. The young ladies will take it in that stride. They are with their teachers and they should be able to distinguish what is good or bad.

Like I joined in welcoming them, my request to them is that they consider seriously– like I said last week – the preamble to the Constitution and also the section of national values and the heritage of this country.

Next Order! Hon. Senators, as you know, there are some Committees going on right now and there are other issues that affect the quorum in the House. I will reorganize the Order Paper and defer OrdersNo.8, 9, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18.

The next Order is Order No.10. Could I have the list of the record?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I understand after Order No.10 which has only 15 minutes to go, we will move to No.19.

Is that clear? The Senate Minority Leader (

helpful it is.

The second amendment is critical. It is in line with the mandate of the Senate under Article 96 of the Constitution. Article 96 (1) and (2) states as follows:-

“(1) The Senate represents the counties, and serves to protect the interests of the counties and their governments.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, yes. It is clear.

Senator, what is Kimbimbi?

Order, Senator. Your time is up. Do you support?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with those remarks, I beg to support.

attract people to work there.

I propose that a sub-county administrator must have a minimum of a degree and we agree with it. A ward administrator should have a minimum of a diploma. Members say a degree but in the wording here, I put diploma. However, we will address it during the Third Reading. This is because a number of ward administrators and Members of County Assemblies (MCAs) have degrees to the extent that you will need people who can run those positions equally. They are in the same category as a District Officer (DO). A DO today has a degree. So, it is essential that ward administrators must have a degree as well. A village administrator should have a minimum of Form 4 certificate with some qualifications particularly in management.

I had also proposed that these positions should be on contract for five years and eligible for renewal when the new government comes into place and they can earn gratuity. Members suggested that I should look at this with a view to bringing some amendment. I will address it properly in the Third Reading. These positions are strictly management and it is just like in the university where I was. For you to become a head of department, you should qualify to be a lecturer. This means that you are already a permanent member of staff. You attend an interview for that particular headship in that institution or department, where you can now earn some additional monies for the privilege to sit in that position. We may have to address it in that context. Even as dean of a university, you are not permanently there. If your term ends, you go back to your old position.

This is the direction that I am going to move as we will be seeking to amend this so that the people currently in those positions but who do not qualify in the context of the new law, will have to be reassigned other duties when the time comes and also, to give room to the new government. When a new Government comes into place, you have an agenda that you have signed with the people of that county for five years. It is not necessarily true that you may retain the administrator who was there. You can change but within the systems.

This also brings in the issues where we are currently correcting a malpractice where the inaugural governors and executives ended up employing relatives, clans, friends and political agents thinking that they will be there forever. I know that a number of them are crying that they resigned. It is true. Who never resigns from their positions? I know all of us. We are moving to an era where all of us now have to be conscious. We are moving into a performance contracting era just like we do in Parliament. Just because I am the Senator for West Pokot today is not a guarantee that I will be the Senator again for the next five years. So, I am here for five years on a contract. It does not make a person any less important in this institution.

In the over 200 parastatals that we have today, all the Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) are on contract. All the directors of departments in that institution are now put on contract. They chose to go for managerial positions consciously knowing that their time will come to leave. I want to assure the ward administrators, sub-county administrators and village administrators, if any, that their lives should not hang on the life of current governors. They should concentrate on serving the people. They are not working because

a rigorous programme of vetting before they were employed by the county public service boards--- We know that even the county public service boards are at the whim of the governors.

The County Public Accounts and Investment Committee (CPAIC) that is chaired by Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o, and I am the Vice Chair, is now in receipt of a document from a forum called ‘Chairmen of County Public Service Boards,’ where a number of them have resigned and some are saying that their lives are in danger if they do not listen to what the inaugural governors say. We should not compare the national Government with the county governments. The structure that we have here is to make devolution work, so that people can enjoy the fruits of devolution. People should not enjoy their positions without caring what happens.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as indicated in this Bill, we are planning to put precise descriptions that will not compete with those of chiefs. Sometimes meetings are called without knowing who will address them. You will find the chiefs, the sub-chiefs, the Assistant County Commissioners and ward administrators claiming that the meeting is theirs.

We should amalgamate the roles of the national Government at the county level and the county governments and have a system that makes sense, so that we do not have problems in future. I want to assure those that are already feeling jittery that they should not waste their time and public funds by coming to Nairobi to parade themselves in Bomas of Kenya for three days trying to fight this Bill. This Bill is there to make lives better. I give that undertaking as the Mover. Together with my colleagues, we will address and shape this Bill to the desired destiny, for the good of the people of Kenya.

I beg to move. Should we put the question?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.54 (3) I beg that you defer the putting of the question to a later date.

there is free primary healthcare in Kenya. We know that it is a lie. When you go to Level Four, Five or any other public hospital in this country, there is nothing like free primary healthcare.

It could be free because there is no cashier to collect money but the patient will have to go and buy the latex gloves, cotton wool and syringes. How free is that? Yet this Senate every year approves disbursement to counties of money called User Fees Forgone, which is some compensation to counties so that where they will not charge user fees, there is an allocation from the national Government.

We disburse User Fees Forgone and yet, our citizens are still being forced to buy items which should have been provided in these hospitals. We need to stand up and speak strongly about this. May be we should advocate for abolishment of this User Fees Forgone. It is not little money. Every county gets some money on User Fees Forgone in addition to the allocation on maternal healthcare. We should demand accountability for that User Fees Forgone.

Either, people get all the services free or we stop sending money to counties when they continue to impose non-tariff barriers to citizens.

Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir, the NHIF currently covers 90 per cent of the insured population which is only 18 per cent of the insurable population. This means there is a huge gap that still needs to be filled. I was in private practice in insurance. One of the last projects I was doing before I came to this House was establishing a medical insurance division in a financial services group and that entailed a lot of research and visits to find out how best it could be done.

For medical insurance practioners, this line of business is toxic and no one wants to touch it, because it is not making money for them. Of the registered insurance companies in this country, there is only one company that is making profits out of medical insurance, because they have got an eco-system where they own hospitals, research facilities and insurance companies.

The rest of the insurance companies that just operate as financial services providers are not making money. They are, therefore, not eager because they are not in business for social purposes, the way we are in politics to help people. They are in business to make money.

We must create an environment where private players get an incentive to get into medical insurance business. One key area this Senate and Parliament can help to encourage is in promotion of micro insurance. Micro health insurance has gone a long way in economies like India to increase coverage to the poor population beyond the mandatory Government schemes like what we have in the case of NHIF.

The problem with micro insurance is the attitude of regulators in the industry. They want to regulate micro insurance the same way they regulate the other property classes of insurance. They tell you that for you to start an insurance company, you need a share capital of several hundreds of millions. A micro insurer sometimes does not have that money. We, therefore, need to look at the Insurance Regulatory Authority (IRA) Act and make sure that we have got provisions that promote micro insurance and that look at it separately from the mainstream insurance classes.

still many issues that need to be addressed. First, the NHIF should not be seen as a field for political reward. All the past chairpersons of the Board are former politicians. Some of them are well known. The predecessor of the current one was Mr. Kirgotty who is a famous politician in Maasailand. We cannot make NHIF a place where we send people who have been rejected by the electorate

governments and the health function is devolved. In the Fourth Schedule of the Constitution, there is a part that assigns duties to the county governments. What interests me is part (c) which talks about promotion of primary health care. It is costly to treat diseases in this country, especially the plague of cancer. Families are sinking all their savings into treatment. I say this because two weeks ago I lost my mother-in-law to liver cancer. It was hard for me. It is hard to get affordable treatment in this country and many Kenyans are suffering. Most Senators will agree with me that a day does not go by without getting an invitation to a harambee that deals with medical expenses.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this amendment also seeks to look at how contributors to NHIF are treated in this country. We have the standard by the Government and organizations, employees and the voluntary contribution. We know that if you are not a member of the NHIF you really suffer. The way it is structured nowadays, it really helps in tackling medical bills. However, not many Kenyans are aware that they can contribute to the NHIF and the consequences of late contribution. We are staring at a crisis in terms of unemployment in the country. We have millions of young people who are out there with no formal employment. Most probably, they will be in the voluntary contribution of NHIF.

If one has a contract or employees that are covered by NHIF as required by law and delays payment by a day or two, they are charged a punitive penalty that makes them to withdraw their workers from NHIF. A penalty that is five times more is not encouraging the businesses that we are talking about. Most women and young people in the country are in private businesses because the white collar jobs are not easily available; the Government is not able to churn out as many jobs as it should. Most people are in Small and Medium-sized Enterprises (SMEs).

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we are lucky to host the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD) 14 in the country. The conference has a dedicated session to deal with the youth and women. There are hundreds of delegates from all over the country that have come to press that even as we look at the achievement of Vision 2030 and Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), we should have a friendly environment for business for young people and women, because they are the drivers of economies in most of the developing countries.

There is a simple amendment to ensure that the penalties are made affordable. For example, if somebody is working for company ‘X’ and his or her payment is delayed, they do not have to suffer by paying five times more as an upcoming entrepreneur, so as to continue with their subscription to NHIF. The first amendment is that of Section 18 of the principle Act in sub-section (1) by deleting the words “five times” appearing immediately after the words “a penalty equal to” and inserting therefor the word “twice”. This was achieved through the public participation that we did in the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare. We involved many stakeholders in terms of the reduction of these penalties. It does not make sense that we want to encourage young people and other people to contribute to NHIF, yet by law we make it difficult to sustain the contribution. That is what informed this reduction. We should encourage more people to keep

He was the Registrar of Motor Vehicles before becoming the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of NHIF.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me a chance to contribute in support of this Bill. To me, it is an important Bill and it has been brought at the right time when counties are struggling to devolve medical facilities and equipment to the counties. This Bill should have been introduced immediately we attained Independence. If you visit the countryside, you will get the surprise of your lifetime. Many people die due to lack of medical care and ignorance. The National Hospital Insurance Fund (NHIF) should provide services at the village level to reach “Wanjiku”.

This Bill is important to most Kenyans. Many Kenyans - when they get sick - they only pray to God to heal them. Some of them pray facing Mt. Kenya or wherever they believe their God resides. It is due to ignorance that they do not know what to do, and also lack of money. It is extremely expensive to get sick in the rural areas. Most times when they get sick, they eventually die because they cannot access medical care. For example, imagine somebody in the northern part of Kenya who requires specialized treatment in Nairobi at the Kenyatta National Hospital (KNH) or Nairobi Hospital. He has to be flown to save his life.

How many choppers do we have to patrol some of those areas as they do reconnaissance tours to see what is happening in the villages? How are our roads? How fast can a patient be rushed to Nairobi Hospital during peak hours in this city? It is impossible to transport a patient to Nairobi Hospital or even KNH between 5.00 p.m. and

Senator, what is Kimbimbi?

Order, Senator. Your time is up. Do you support?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with those remarks, I beg to support.

education, free shelter and food security as guaranteed in the Constitution. We need to audit the Orphaned and Vulnerable Children (OVC) programme.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.

Sen. Ong’era.

Cap. 255and come up with a better formula for the NHIF Board. This is a Board of 12 people and we are now proposing to add another person coming from the CoG; that will be a board of 13. That is too busy. When I was in the private sector, we were taught that the ideal size of a board would be a number that could best be fed on one big pizza. In other words seven or nine could be ideal. Regarding the number of members in this board, we can relook at it and offer a better approach. Some organisations that we know have become moribund.

Secondly, the Bill proposes to reduce penalties on lapses. I support that because the current plan talks of five times the amount in default. Sen. Wangari proposes that should be twice. There needs to be an argument whether when you lapse you are still under cover. We are talking of premiums. Those contributions are basically insurance premiums. So, if you do not pay your premium for a month or two, then your cover has basically lapsed. This is not a life insurance where there will be a fund, an investment and a projection of some benefits or sum assured at the end of the term of the policy.

Therefore, it cannot be that when someone lapses for whatever reason then the fine is that punitive. If it has to be punitive on anybody, it should be on an employer. We need to differentiate and say that the fine on an employer who fails to remit contributions of employees should be much higher than even the five times. Why should an employer fail to remit an employee’s contribution yet they have already deducted that from the employee? This will ensure that we have a different set of penalties for the house help who earns Kshs10,000 or Kshs15,000 and maybe has paid been late by her employer then she forgot to remit her contribution. Those two categories need to be treated separately. There can be no forgiveness for an employer who has already deducted NHIF dues from an employee and fails to remit the same. As we go ahead we can look at those two distinctions.

The third key thrust of this Bill is to drop the reference to the Workman’s Compensation Act which has become defunct. A dignified society should strive to offer certain things to its citizen. One should be food. I do not think we have reached the level of a dignified society as a nation because we still find malnourished children because that cannot get food, yet in some parts of the country, people are pouring milk and throwing away maize for lack of market. It is a good thing that this Senate has already come up with a food security Bill which I believe has become an Act of Parliament and I believe has already been assented to. That Bill was processed in this House to ensure that no Kenyan goes hungry.

Secondly, a dignified society should provide shelter. The situation where our slums like Kibera have become tourist attractions where pop idols such as Madonna come to take photos and they do so in the worst of corners of those slums so that they can raise funds globally for their own charities is completely unacceptable. We must come up with a policy which ensures that all Kenyans have a right to descent shelter which is a right already in the Constitution. We only need to come up with enabling legislation.

Thirdly, is education. Already we are toying with free primary and secondary education. Lastly, is healthcare. The National Hospital Insurance Fund (NHIF) should be the agent through which we achieve universal health care. When you listen to top

there is free primary healthcare in Kenya. We know that it is a lie. When you go to Level Four, Five or any other public hospital in this country, there is nothing like free primary healthcare.

It could be free because there is no cashier to collect money but the patient will have to go and buy the latex gloves, cotton wool and syringes. How free is that? Yet this Senate every year approves disbursement to counties of money called User Fees Forgone, which is some compensation to counties so that where they will not charge user fees, there is an allocation from the national Government.

We disburse User Fees Forgone and yet, our citizens are still being forced to buy items which should have been provided in these hospitals. We need to stand up and speak strongly about this. May be we should advocate for abolishment of this User Fees Forgone. It is not little money. Every county gets some money on User Fees Forgone in addition to the allocation on maternal healthcare. We should demand accountability for that User Fees Forgone.

Either, people get all the services free or we stop sending money to counties when they continue to impose non-tariff barriers to citizens.

Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir, the NHIF currently covers 90 per cent of the insured population which is only 18 per cent of the insurable population. This means there is a huge gap that still needs to be filled. I was in private practice in insurance. One of the last projects I was doing before I came to this House was establishing a medical insurance division in a financial services group and that entailed a lot of research and visits to find out how best it could be done.

For medical insurance practioners, this line of business is toxic and no one wants to touch it, because it is not making money for them. Of the registered insurance companies in this country, there is only one company that is making profits out of medical insurance, because they have got an eco-system where they own hospitals, research facilities and insurance companies.

The rest of the insurance companies that just operate as financial services providers are not making money. They are, therefore, not eager because they are not in business for social purposes, the way we are in politics to help people. They are in business to make money.

We must create an environment where private players get an incentive to get into medical insurance business. One key area this Senate and Parliament can help to encourage is in promotion of micro insurance. Micro health insurance has gone a long way in economies like India to increase coverage to the poor population beyond the mandatory Government schemes like what we have in the case of NHIF.

The problem with micro insurance is the attitude of regulators in the industry. They want to regulate micro insurance the same way they regulate the other property classes of insurance. They tell you that for you to start an insurance company, you need a share capital of several hundreds of millions. A micro insurer sometimes does not have that money. We, therefore, need to look at the Insurance Regulatory Authority (IRA) Act and make sure that we have got provisions that promote micro insurance and that look at it separately from the mainstream insurance classes.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, let me join my colleagues in congratulating Sen. Martha Wangari. I thought she had a third name but I can only see two here. If she does not have a third one, I will call her Esther.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, indeed, if we continue putting all our efforts the way Sen. Wangari has done here and the previous Bills she has brought, we will really be on the right track and be able to secure and make devolution which is the pride of every Kenyan work. These are the type of leaders that we will propose in future. For example, if Nakuru County needs a Senator, Martha Wangari should be elected as the first woman Senator. If she chooses to be an MP for Gilgil or the neighbourhood, it will still be okay.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I would like you to recall the phrase that was pronounced in 1963 by our forefathers when Mzee Jomo Kenyatta stood and said that there are three enemies that must be eliminated immediately the Whiteman leaves. These were ignorance, disease and poverty. If you analyse it keenly, you will realise that our successive Governments have endeavoured to fight ignorance by introducing very many schools. We have not failed in that area and we are doing quite well. Another one that we are struggling and trying but not really managing is the issue of eliminating poverty where people suffer shortage of food. We would have eliminated it if we continued with the policies of 1960s, 1970s and early 1980s where agriculture was the prime choice in the Republic and everybody thought of it. Today, it is lost and no wonder we just depend on people from outside. We import food from other countries but do not know what minerals are used in the production. Maybe that is why we have very many strange diseases nowadays such as cancer and very many others that historically we used not to have in huge numbers.

Lastly, one enemy of Kenyans and Africans that we were supposed to fight was disease. We have been defeated regarding that. Whether you are rich, in the middle income bracket or the poor who are the majority of Kenyans, disease has terrorized people seriously. That is why Sen. Wangari talked about some amendment in this prime Act in order to find a way of how people can benefit and also fight this enemy that has been becoming stronger each year. Even the rich also cry. You have heard of many cases of many Kenyans going to India. India was just as poor or, if not, worse off than us in

I now call upon the Mover and the sponsor of the Bill to reply.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank my colleagues, from the Seconder to the other Senators, who have contributed to this Bill. To Sen. M. Kajwang, there is no magic in getting your Bill signed. In fact, the Bill that I sponsored and was signed; the County Governments (Amendment) Act, was authored when the late Sen. Gerald Kajwang was in office. So, it tells you how far it goes. It has been two or three agonizing years to actually trace it from where it was. So, I share the frustration in terms of expediting our Bills which has also been cited by Sen. Ong’era. We hope that the same attention and seriousness that we give the National Assembly Bills will be given to ours so that at the end of the day, we can show our work to the electorate, who expect us to yield fruits by coming to this House.

He was the Registrar of Motor Vehicles before becoming the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of NHIF.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, did he ever attempt to vie for a political seat?

hoping that we can deal with it. The problem with NHIF is that it has been riddled with scandals and so it becomes very hard. That also brings into question the issue of appointment of the Board and how professionally they will run it. If the scheme is properly and professionally run, it should do business ---

Sen. Wangari, speak to the issues that were raised. It should not be like you are debating again.

education, free shelter and food security as guaranteed in the Constitution. We need to audit the Orphaned and Vulnerable Children (OVC) programme.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to support.

Sen. Ong’era.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity to also contribute to this Bill. Let me join my colleagues from the outset in congratulating Sen. Wangari for bringing up this very important

and fairly straightforward Bill. This Bill aims at entrenching devolution right into the counties. As we know, health services have been devolved to the counties. Therefore, amending Section 4, which I fully support so that we get a member from the Council of Governors (CoG) sitting in the board, is a very acceptable and straightforward matter. However, I feel that time has come when even the NHIF should be fully devolved to the counties. Since we have already devolved health services, I do not see why we should now have a national umbrella body that manages insurance schemes.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we know that right now, there are many insurance schemes in the world which benefit our people, just like the one Sen. M. Kajwang spoke about on micro insurance. These are the kind of schemes that we need, like the ones in the USA. When Sen. (Prof.) Anyang'-Nyong'o was the then Minister for Health Services, I remember he attempted to introduce an insurance scheme yet it was rubbished. He was made to look like the villain. Had he been given the opportunity then, that health service scheme that he intended to introduce would have really benefited our ordinary people right in the counties.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I also support the second amendment which intends to reduce the penalties which have been imposed by The National Hospital Insurance Fund Act. There is no need of making defaulters pay such a hefty penalty when this scheme is actually supposed to support the poor. You know that majority of members of this scheme are really in the bracket of what we call “the youth and young people.” Therefore, I welcome that amendment.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I can also see that there is another amendment for the recovery of compensation of damages which I also support. However, there is an elephant in this House. The elephant is that we are all the time debating on Bills which when we send to our sister House, the “Lower House” which is the National Assembly are never passed. So, I do not see why we should be wasting our time debating on Bills here in the House and yet we do not agitate through your Office to ensure that, indeed, the National Assembly passes them just as we pass theirs. We are on record in this House saying that when the National Assembly Bills come here, we do not waste our time but debate on them, just as we are honourable Senators, and pass them. Therefore, I feel that it behooves the National Assembly to pass our Bills. Right now, I believe over 39 Bills have gone there.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, with those few words, I beg to support.

I want to assure you that Members of the National Assembly are also doing something. This afternoon, they were debating the County Assembly Powers and Privileges Bill. Therefore, they are also doing their best.

Province for both livestock and cereals. There is also River Thiba which passes through and can be useful in terms of refuse disposal in case it requires water. Therefore, most people in Kirinyaga would feel comfortable to transact their businesses from Kutus, as the headquarters of Kirinyaga County.

The distance between Kerugoya and Kutus is about five kilometers and the road connecting the two towns are all weather and in good state. The other overhead infrastructure like telephone wires and electricity are provided by the relevant companies. Therefore, Kutus has been selected as the centre to be the headquarters. Once the devolved system was enacted, Kutus still remained steadfast. A total of Kshs400 million has been allocated to set up the headquarters in Kutus. Housing schemes have also come up to cater for the rising population of university students and the personnel that will work in the headquarters.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the area is also flat and not rugged like many other headquarters that we have in the country. It has minimum disruption of transport, adequate water supply and so many other factors which are relevant to an urban centre. Therefore, many of the residents of Kirinyaga prefer Kutus to be the headquarters of their county.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Since he has already moved, you cannot interrupt him. Who will second?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I ask Sen. M. Kajwang to second.

Sen. M. Kajwang if your intervention was on seconding you now have the chance. However, I want to clarify that flatness cannot qualify an urban centre to be the headquarters. When it rains you should expect a lot of water to stagnate. You can quote all other characteristics, but flatness of the area may not qualify.

issue of cash transfers. I sit in the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare as the Vice Chairperson and this is one of the issues that we have a problem with in terms of tracking and oversight of these monies. We took it upon ourselves as a Committee to use public participation as required in Article 10 of the Constitution to go to counties to find out what the issues are. We went to Kiambu and Nakuru counties. One issue that was constant was the fact that the elderly, even with the Kshs2,000 that they get, end up spending it on medical care. In fact, it is not enough. The object of the cash transfer was to afford the vulnerable people a meal. It is meant to go to food but it ends up on medical expenses.

This tells you where the gap of the National Health Insurance Fund (NHIF) comes in. If you have an NHIF card, then you can access outpatient services, most of which are needed by the elderly. There has been a very radical proposal that we were dealing with the Government taking up the contribution of NHIF of the over 65 year olds, in terms of their social responsibility as the Government. It definitely has quite a huge cash burden. However, we talk of billions of shillings that are lost – Kshs400 billion that is not accounted for in the country. So, we should explore this matter.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Sen. Kajwang talked about the issue of employers. Allow me to defend employers in this case. I am looking at a young person or group of young people who have employed a few others and are making, say, bricks or providing cleaning services to the Kenya Airways and their payment is delayed maybe by a day. Those who have Government tenders know that it happens a lot. Being a small organisation, even if your pay is delayed for a day, you should pay five times. What are we doing to these young organisations?

I know, Sen. Kajwang, as a Member of the Young Parliamentarians Association, you will agree with me that most Kenyans and young people are employed in the white collar jobs and they are looking at chances to start these businesses and keep them afloat. So, I would really push and hope that we can see the sense of reduction in that sense. This is because the contribution is supposed to be done on the first day of the month according to the Act. How many, even in your businesses, can pay salaries on the first day? If you are late by two days, you pay five times.

For me, that is the argument that, we must protect the small and medium enterprises, the youth owned businesses and Persons With Disabilities (PWDs) whom we have given a chance to do business with the Government and other organisations. However, the payments are still not as good. In fact, they say that you will be paid within 30 days. So, if you delay by a day, you pay five times. This is too punitive for these young businesses. We cannot put them in the same category as the international businesses. That is why I still insist that, yes, we need a fine for deliberate non- contribution but we also need to encourage and give these incentives that you are talking about to these upcoming enterprises.

The other issue is one which Sen. Kajwang has alluded to. In fact, when I put it on Facebook that I was to move this Bill today –new media is the way to go at this time – I got very interesting responses. The responses were in terms of how to deal with NHIF in the social aspect to give this cover but also have a minimum for commercial interest. It is

hoping that we can deal with it. The problem with NHIF is that it has been riddled with scandals and so it becomes very hard. That also brings into question the issue of appointment of the Board and how professionally they will run it. If the scheme is properly and professionally run, it should do business ---

Sen. Wangari, speak to the issues that were raised. It should not be like you are debating again.

Thank you Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. That is also an issue that we should explore. I agree with Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo and Sen. Kajwang on the composition of this Board. I agree that in the Third Reading, we should look into whether we need farmers associations, the Kenya National Union of Teacher (KNUT) and the Kenya Union of Post Primary Education Teachers (KUPPET) represented here. In terms of making it efficient, we can look at it during the Committee Stage.

The other issue is one that is quite critical. It is not addressed in this amendment. When it comes to the issue of choices of hospitals, you realise that most outpatient services are not offered in big hospitals. You cannot access Nairobi Hospital or Kenyatta National Hospital. I think we can also look at that in the Committee Stage. I remember that it was raised during public participation that we need to look into how these hospitals are settled on. This is because if you pay your premium, you should have an array of choices. They limit these hospitals to some very small enterprises and lock out the Karen, Nairobi and Kenyatta National hospitals. It then becomes very hard to attract contributors to NHIF. If you have that card and you have paid your premiums, then you should be accorded services in any hospitals of your choice.

With those remarks, I beg to move and thank all the Senators who have contributed.

Pursuant to Standing Order 54 (3) , I request that you defer the putting of the question to another day.

Okay, I defer putting of the question to next week.

Since the Mover of OrderNo.20 and 21 is not there, let us defer both Orders.

Second Readings

Second reading

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, what is your point of order?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Could the distinguished Senator for Homa Bay County describe and explain to us what he means by ‘voting machines’? In the Senate, we only have Hon. Senators, unless you have come across that terminology anywhere, can he describe what he means.

Sen. M. Kajwang, what did you mean by the word “voting machines?” Is it the ones which hon. Senators use to vote? Did you refer to somebody?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am obliged to treat all hon. Senators of this House with respect and not impute any improper motives on them. I would withdraw that and say, the operators of the voting machines have left rather than the voting machines.

Do we have operators?

Sen. M. Kajwang, you are correct when you say that for the Act to have been amended, it required a two-third. However, this was a Bill that had passed through the Senate and this House can still amend it. There is nothing wrong with the Senator coming up with the Bill and the amendments.

Further, he said this was in consultation with all the stakeholders of the county. Therefore, it is not just his views but he is representing the views of his county. It is therefore, correct. You may now second.

that he is not planning to sell his land to the county or national Government to set up some of the facilities for the new headquarters. I hope that the people of Kirinyaga County have been consulted and fully support this amendment.

Let us have Sen. (Prof. Lonyangapuo) .

Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir, I thank Sen. Karaba for bringing this amendment Bill. However, the County Government Act, Section 6 (a) which talks about location of county governments says:-

“Each of the county governments shall be located in the respective physical locations set out in the Third Schedule”.

Sen. Karaba, the Senator for Kirinyaga County, seeks to amend the physical location for Kirinyaga County as stated in No. 20 in the list where he seeks to change from Kerugoya Urban area to take it to Kutus Urban area. The procedure of change is found in the County Governments Act, Section 6 (a) which says:-

“A county assembly may, by a resolution supported by at least two thirds of the members of the county assembly and with the approval of Parliament, transfer the

The Senate has the powers to make the amendments or come up with the Bills. Therefore, even if there were no resolutions from the County Assembly in Kerugoya, at least, somebody came up with a Bill in the Senate, in consultation with the county itself. There will not be any problem. We now have one. Therefore, we have to continue.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, backed your ruling, it is my pleasure to second this Bill. In as much as I am not very familiar with the many factors that have been brought up by the Senator, I am convinced that the Senator, being the one who defends and protects the interests of devolution and represents the county where the Third Schedule of the County Governments Act has designated its headquarter as Kerugoya urban area. Therefore, there must be significant and fundamental reasons to change the physical location of the headquarters of Kirinyaga County to Kutus urban area.

As I second this particular Bill, I would like to draw our attention to some of the issues that have been going on particularly following the presidential assent to the County Governments Amendment Bill, which introduced the Third Schedule and solidified the physical locations of county headquarters in law. There are a number of counties where

the headquarters could fall in places different from those that were designated in the Act.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is no single day that everyone will agree on a particular matter. That is very difficult because humanity is wired in such a way that diversity of thought will always be there. I, therefore, urge that the residents of Kirinyaga County should ensure that they provide full political support and backing to this move. That needs to be demonstrated. It will not be a 100 per cent even though the Mover says that the assembly supports this fully. Maybe they support it 99 per cent. There will always be that person with dissenting view.

It will important that the county supports this and moves with it so that it is not seen as a creation of the Senate, sitting in Nairobi, eating good food and deciding whether the county headquarters should be without consultation of the people. I also hope that public participation has been undertaken on this and that what we have in front of us reflects the deep wishes of the people of Kirinyaga County. This will not open another battle front between the Senate and the Council of Governors (CoG) or the people of Kirinyaga County.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as I conclude, I reiterate my support, which is borne out of my respect for the Senator for Kirinyaga County who is a gentleman who is extremely committed. You will always find him in this House even when the ‘voting machines’ have left. He always remains behind as a ‘debating machine’. I am, therefore, sure that by the time he brings a Bill to this House, it is something that has been well conceptualized and reflects the wishes---

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, what is your point of order?

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Could the distinguished Senator for Homa Bay County describe and explain to us what he means by ‘voting machines’? In the Senate, we only have Hon. Senators, unless you have come across that terminology anywhere, can he describe what he means.

Sen. M. Kajwang, what did you mean by the word “voting machines?” Is it the ones which hon. Senators use to vote? Did you refer to somebody?

was printed like it was Kerugoya because most of the towns were the former towns and it also included “Kerugoya urban area”. The words “urban area” could be the contagious phrase.

Kerugoya area stretches up to Kutus. Some of you might not know the geography of that area. The difference between Kerugoya and Kutus is only six kilometres and not very far. It is almost like a walking distance to me. It is even shorter than the 21 of 42 kilometre marathons.

I thank my colleagues for agreeing with me and supporting that the headquarters be moved to Kerugoya. To me, this amendment is coming at the right time. If it does not come now the way we are discussing, it will haunt the residents of Kirinyaga for the rest of their lives. Students, sons and daughters in Kirinyaga will hold us responsible for not amending the Bill the way I am doing now. I hope that all should be well ---

Are you cursing the Senate? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, no. I am trying to thank the Senate for allowing me to move this amendment.

Pursuant to Standing Order No.54 (3) , I request that you defer putting of the question to another day.

Okay, I defer. As I said, the Division will not be done without the ruling from the Chair on the subject matter or the issues which were raised by the Seconder and Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.

Second reading

that he is not planning to sell his land to the county or national Government to set up some of the facilities for the new headquarters. I hope that the people of Kirinyaga County have been consulted and fully support this amendment.

Let us have Sen. (Prof. Lonyangapuo) .

Mr. Temporary Speaker Sir, I thank Sen. Karaba for bringing this amendment Bill. However, the County Government Act, Section 6 (a) which talks about location of county governments says:-

“Each of the county governments shall be located in the respective physical locations set out in the Third Schedule”.

Sen. Karaba, the Senator for Kirinyaga County, seeks to amend the physical location for Kirinyaga County as stated in No. 20 in the list where he seeks to change from Kerugoya Urban area to take it to Kutus Urban area. The procedure of change is found in the County Governments Act, Section 6 (a) which says:-

“A county assembly may, by a resolution supported by at least two thirds of the members of the county assembly and with the approval of Parliament, transfer the

Schedule to such other physical location as it may consider appropriate”. Section 6(3) states:-

“A county assembly shall before passing a resolution under Subsection 2; facilitate public participation in the entire county”. Lastly:-

“The county governor shall confer the status of an urban area to the seat of the physical location of the county government in accordance with the provisions set out in the Urban Areas and Cities Act, No.13 of 2011 after all the procedures have been done”.

In this context, I share the concerns given by the seconder of this Bill, Sen. M. Kajwang who asked whether there was a resolution that came from the County Assembly to Parliament which means the Senate, so that the representative for the people of Kirinyaga who is Sen. Karaba would now drive this amendment.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, in the absence of that resolution, we cannot proceed with this Bill until we have a written resolution that has come to the Speaker and then be backed up by this. If we do it without that, it means that even myself, the Senator for West Pokot who has discovered that Kapenguria Urban area has been messed up by the current County Executive, would quickly run mad, and change the location to the empty Pokot land.

Kapenguria is a very small, nice area but the governor decided to plant houses for every County Executive Member (CEC). For every CEC, there is a headquarters. So there are ten headquarters, instead of building one. The little space we had which is three acres is finished. I can easily run mad and say that we should change the location to an empty land in Pokot but there is a procedure for that. So, I will oppose this Bill until we are convinced, through your Office, that we have the resolution from the County Assembly, citing this.

I know Sen. Karaba has given us eloquent presentation and mentioned that Kshs440 million was spent to build. We visited that place when we were looking at the siting locations recently. That was done by an Ad hoc Committee that was chaired by Senator Sen. (Eng.) Muriuki of Nyandarua. We found that the governor, in his own wisdom, decided to buy land and put up his massive building very fast. Sen. Karaba being a father sympathises with the whole issue and the building is ready. When we were there, there were still some scrambles because the County Assembly and the County Headquarters were very far apart.

We are not saying that we want to deprive the people of Kutus the proximity to the governor and other services. Maybe, the population of Kutus is higher than that of Kerugoya and so on and so forth but that is not the way to do it. Just because this issue is in the Third Schedule of the Constitution, it does not mean that we just change like that and ignore the procedure that has been cited there.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we need the Mover of this Bill to certify and convince the Senate, through your Office, that, indeed, that procedure was followed. If it was not followed, then we will shoot it down and the Mover will have to go and start afresh because it is allowed. You can change it but you have to follow that procedure.

that people are trying to position themselves a lot. I am very happy that Sen. Karaba has been very consistent in fighting for the people of Kirinyaga. He has sought statements and Motions that have had something to do with them until some of us have been envious. He has talked about roads in Kirinyaga County yet some of us do not even have an inch of a tarmacked road. It has made some of us feel that he is asking too much from this Government. This is the way a leader is supposed to work and we appreciate him for that. However, I do not agree with him on this one. Let him follow the procedure that is required and we will support.

Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo, the Senator for Kirinyaga moved the Bill properly in the House and he was seconded properly. Are you doubting? You can only oppose because the Bill has already been moved and seconded. It should be debated now. You can only debate on it and say you do not support.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you know this is a very peculiar Bill. It is not an ordinary Bill because it strictly touches on the life of one county. The only way we can generously contribute is not to say “yes” or “no” but to know whether the procedure was followed. If it was followed, all of us will approval it, in fact, in the shortest time possible. If the right procedure was not followed, then we will do better by assisting our colleague to bring it here procedurally.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I beg to oppose.

I am going to allow the Mover of the Bill to reply and since Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo insisted on something the seconder had questioned, we will give out the ruling of that before the Division of the same Bill is done in this House. So, before Division on the Bill, we will give out the ruling concerning what was raised by the seconder and by Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo. Continue to reply on your Bill.

Thank you very much Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir and to my colleagues as well for contributing positively to the amendment Bill which is in the House today. As I thank my colleague Senators, it is important to note that this matter had been discussed earlier even before devolution and people agreed that we are going to have Kutus as the headquarters of the county. They agreed even before the 2013 election was done. The earlier headquarters which is Kerugoya; historically, people would have the attachment by saying they would like to have that remain the way it is. When the matter was put to the vote, the vote that carried the day was that Kutus be the headquarters. By that time, even the governors and the Senators did not know they were going to be elected because it was before the devolution government of 2013.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, as I stand here, I represent the will of Kirinyaga people that Kutus be the headquarters. The stakeholders were involved and quite a number of people were involved including the then Members of Parliament. So, I am happy that even today, Senators have found it fit to go by what I am advising because I am from there and I know what it means if this is contrary to the feeling and opinion of the majority of the people. Since I know what the majority of the people of Kirinyaga County would like me to say, I am saying it because I have no fear. There is no

was printed like it was Kerugoya because most of the towns were the former towns and it also included “Kerugoya urban area”. The words “urban area” could be the contagious phrase.

Kerugoya area stretches up to Kutus. Some of you might not know the geography of that area. The difference between Kerugoya and Kutus is only six kilometres and not very far. It is almost like a walking distance to me. It is even shorter than the 21 of 42 kilometre marathons.

I thank my colleagues for agreeing with me and supporting that the headquarters be moved to Kerugoya. To me, this amendment is coming at the right time. If it does not come now the way we are discussing, it will haunt the residents of Kirinyaga for the rest of their lives. Students, sons and daughters in Kirinyaga will hold us responsible for not amending the Bill the way I am doing now. I hope that all should be well ---

Are you cursing the Senate? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, no. I am trying to thank the Senate for allowing me to move this amendment.

Pursuant to Standing Order No.54 (3) , I request that you defer putting of the question to another day.

Okay, I defer. As I said, the Division will not be done without the ruling from the Chair on the subject matter or the issues which were raised by the Seconder and Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo.

Second reading

Hon. Senators, it is time to interrupt the business of the House. The Senate stands adjourned to Thursday, 21st July, 2016 at 2.30