February, 25, 2026 SENATE DEBATES 1

Wednesday, 25th February, 2026

Clerk, do we have quorum?

Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

Serjeant-at-Arms, ring the Quorum Bell for a further 10 minutes.

Order. Hon. Senators, we now have quorum. Clerk you may call the first Order. The Senate Majority Leader, proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following papers on the Table of the Senate, today, Wednesday, the 25th February, 2026.

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Next Order.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, welcome back once again to the Senate. You are before the Senate for purposes of responding to Questions No.001 and No.002, both by the Senator for Kisumu County. However, those two questions will be asked by the Senator for Bungoma on behalf of Sen. Tom Ojienda.

Sen. Wakoli, you may proceed. Before Sen. Wakoli asks this question, I have allocated 20 minutes per question. So, at the expiry of 20 minutes, we will move to the next question.

Proceed, Sen. David Wakoli. Question No.001

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. On behalf of the Senator for Kisumu, Prof. Tom Ojienda, I would like to ask the Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Economic Planning, Question No.1. Karibu sana, Waziri.

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Cabinet Secretary, you may now proceed to respond. The Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Economic Planning

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir and Hon. Members. I take your guidance very seriously that each question should take 20 minutes. However, this first question is too long. I will deal with the second one in those 20 minutes, but the first one seems to be too long. I am trying to look for a strategy on how to handle it within the 20 minutes, but let me---

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you have provided a very detailed written response, so you need not---

The Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Economic Planning

: Okay, to read to read word for word.

Absolutely. The Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Planning

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I will devise a strategy to try and summarise.

Hon. Speaker, I am here to address Question No.001 by the Senator for Kisumu, Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda, on the status of national poverty reduction programmes and resource allocation in the country. I was asked to provide an update on the implementation status of all ongoing economic and social programmes aimed at reducing poverty and elevating household economic hardships.

Allow me to give a status of poverty in Kenya. We continue as a country to implement various interventions aimed at reducing poverty levels. The poverty headcount ratio stood at 54.9 percent in 2009. This has reduced to 36.1 per cent in 2015/2016, or it reduced to 36.1 per cent in 2015/2016 and 33 percent in 2019. However, due to COVID- 19, in 2020, this ratio rose to 42.9 percent, but it has since reduced to 39.8 percent, the latest data that has been given. However, that is still very high and interventions are necessary. The Government has prioritised a number of programmes which are aimed at reducing poverty and some of these programmes target to reduce poverty directly. For example, we have social transfers. I will go to social transfers and explain what this means.

The social transfer programme has been employed by the Government to protect households or individuals who are vulnerable to poverty. We have a number of them. One of them is cash transfer for orphans and vulnerable children, targeting households

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Thank you, Hon. Cabinet Secretary. Sen. Wakoli, do you have any supplementary questions?

No.

Good. Sen. Mbugua, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Hon. Cabinet Secretary, my question is on the NYOTA programme. There was a Government policy that in all the funds, five per cent was to be allocated to Persons with Disabilities (PWDs) . There is a complaint all over the country that the PWDs are not adequately benefiting from this programme. Can you tell this House how many PWDs have benefited from this programme?

Thank you.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, take note of that question and take more, so that you respond to maybe 10 of them at ago.

Sen. Mumma, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Karibu, Hon. Cabinet Secretary. My question relates to the support for TVET institutions. You will agree that the greatest mitigation strategy to reduce poverty is enabling members of families to stand on their own. We have just learned from one committee that you have not deployed even one shilling to the new funding models for TVET institutions for the financial years 2023/2024, 2024/2025 and 2025/2026. As a result, learners from the poorest families are dropping out of school because their capitation under the new funding model has not taken place in the TVET institutions and many others have not joined TVET institutions. How can we reduce poverty if we do not honour such a basic need?

Sen. Chute.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I take this opportunity to thank the Cabinet Secretary for being here today. He spoke about investment in marginalised areas over the last five years. I would like the Cabinet Secretary to mention one project that has been started and completed in Marsabit County, which is the largest county in this Republic.

Thank you.

Sen. Edwin Sifuna.

Hon. Speaker, listening to the Cabinet Secretary, some of the figures he mentioned left me confused. In December last year, there was a report by Oxfam titled, “Kenya’s Inequality Crisis: The Great Economic Divide”. The report from Oxfam put the figure of Kenyans living under extreme poverty at 50 per cent. I heard the Hon. Cabinet Secretary talking about 39.8 per cent. They cited reasons, including the rising cost of living and inflation, which is 50 per cent higher than it was in 2020 the period before COVID-19 pandemic.

My question to the Cabinet Secretary is about the NYOTA programme. You said it has received a lot of publicity. It is because you publicise it. It is essentially a political rally. My question on the NYOTA funds is: Could you tell this House the expense side of hosting those NYOTA events? How much does it cost to put up the large tents we see?

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Sen. Aaron Cheruiyot.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have a question to the Cabinet Secretary. We are discussing an important subject on alleviating poverty among our citizens. I appreciate the interventions that have been listed and the measures that the Government is putting in place to try and help the less fortunate amongst us. There is a figure that the Cabinet Secretary mentioned that by a clean-up of the register, they were able to save Kshs2 billion in the cash transfer for the vulnerable in our society. Apart from cleaning up the register, were there any sanctions to public officers who may have been involved in populating the list with non-deserving people or ghost beneficiaries?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, the last comment on NYOTA is that I ask the Cabinet Secretary to publicise it as much as possible alongside any other programme. Any programme that helps citizens and makes their lives better should be publicised as much as possible.

I thank you.

Sen. Maanzo.

The Cabinet Secretary talked about the Galana Kulalu Irrigation Project, but I have a question on agriculture. This project was to be stabilised by flow of water from Thwake Dam where there has been no progress for the past three years. Funding had been promised by the African Development Bank (ADB) by December, but up to now, there has been no progress at all. This should trigger irrigation in several counties; Kitui, Makueni, Kajiado, Machakos and the lower counties around Galana Kulalu. What is he doing to make sure that he spurs irrigation?

You are allowed to ask only one question. Sen. Murgor, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I also thank the hon. Cabinet Secretary for availing himself. I went to Rwanda last year around November and the system around social activities there targets the whole family units to alleviate and put them on their feet. What also helps is the assessment that goes on. They go to a family, see how it has alleviated and helped and the change that has taken place.

A lot of the activities he has mentioned have been going on. However, but how much assessment is being carried to ensure that the programme is effective and is helping people? This is because, you can pump money into a system, but it does not reach where it is supposed to reach. Therefore, families continue to languish in poverty and yet, there is a lot of pumping into a system that is not reaching targeted people.

Sen. Enock Wambua.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. Poverty is a present reality in this county and is made worse by the current drought situation. I am a bit taken aback by the figures that the Cabinet Secretary has brought here. I wonder if you are relying on figures for 2022 to address a problem in 2026, then there is a problem.

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Sen. Veronica Maina.

I thank the Cabinet Secretary for coming to answer the questions in this House. We have Cabinet Secretaries who do not bother to even apologise when they are not available for this question time and yet it is crucial. More importantly, we require that when you undertake something on the Floor of the House, you ensure that it is performed.

As the Cabinet Secretary, can tell from his report, which he has prepared with caution in order to make sure that it is factual and represents the reality? We have a very poor population in Kenya. In Murang’a County, we have people living in extreme poverty who require key interventions. This report has disaggregated the counties.

Right now, there are some homes that have caught fire in Murang’a County and that population of people who have faced those fires do not have places to call their homes. What is the Ministry doing to intervene in the areas where the fires happened; Kigumo, Kangema, Kiawambogo and Kandara? This includes the old people who get rained on when they are asleep. Is the Ministry doing anything to intervene for the people living in extreme hardcore poverty in counties, especially Murang’a people? I have a line-up of seven homes who need urgent intervention.

Hon. Senators, avoid making lengthy speeches. Go straight to the question, so that we can have as many questions addressed to the Cabinet Secretary.

Yes, Sen. Betty Montet.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The hon. Cabinet Secretary talked about the social transfers. Are these transfers aimed at poverty reduction or are they poverty mitigation strategies? Also, is it not time that the figures are reviewed?

Sen. Abass.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, 13 counties are facing drought as the Cabinet Secretary has said and they are above the poverty level status. This has been there for many years.

Hon. Senators, I remind you again.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, let me ask the question. How much money was allocated for drought intervention in northern Kenya and wherever there is drought? I see food being distributed, but we cannot continue relying on food alone every time. This country has to change its policies on drought intervention.

If you look at Burkina Faso, which is in the middle of desert, today, they have surplus food production because of one person who made change in that country. What are the plans for this country to intervene on drought on time and have enough food production to avoid giving out food supplies to drought-stricken areas?

Sen. Consolata.

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Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity. I also welcome the Cabinet Secretary. He has outlined a myriad of interventions to boost economic levels. However, my question is: Which mechanisms has the Ministry put in place to inform on the selection criteria of the beneficiaries of these opportunities and which evaluation and monitoring tool is there? Which feedback mechanism has been put in place to realise the uptake of these opportunities? I am disappointed that Bungoma County has been rated highest in poverty levels.

Sen. Cherarkey.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. A quick one to Waziri. He has talked about poverty alleviation especially among the young people, through NYOTA and youth development programmes that are supposed to be in place.

Waziri, what monitoring and evaluation mechanisms have you put in place to ensure that what you are doing in NYOTA is beneficial to the young people? The issues of youth are very important and they need the attention of the President.

Secondly, what strategies are in place to ensure that these issues are addressed in the long-term, and ignore haters like Sen. Sifuna, who do not even know where the ODM certificate is?

Senator for Nandi County, we have heard your question. Take your seat.

Sen. Seki, you may proceed.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. My question goes directly to the Cabinet Secretary and issues of irrigation development programmes.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, I believe there was a budget for irrigation schemes in Rombo, Kajiado County, and in Nguruman, Magadi, for the Financial Year 2024/2025. I would really wish to know the level and processes of the irrigation schemes, because we have not seen anything so far from the two financial years.

Sen. Joe Nyutu, you may proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I refer to the response by the Cabinet Secretary on economic empowerment. I refer specifically to the NYOTA programme, where whenever these funds are being distributed to young people, the President is always in attendance. Could the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury and Economic Planning tell us exactly how much the country spends on transporting the President---

Sen. Joe Nyutu, that is a repeat question. It is a question that has already been asked, so just wait for its response.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you may proceed to respond and kindly do so in less than 10 minutes, so that we wrap up on this particular Question.

The Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Economic Planning

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. On the first question by Sen. Mbugua on the NYOTA programme and the persons living with disabilities who have benefited or are benefiting from the NYOTA programme, I wish to state that so far, 26,000 persons living with disabilities have benefited from this programme. So, it is not that they have been neglected completely. There is a component of the funding that has been designated specifically for persons living with disability.

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Order, hon. Senators. Order! Senator for Nandi County, you either be orderly or I will ask you to leave the Chamber. I do not know where that excitement is coming from. Let us listen to the Cabinet Secretary in silence.

Now, hon. Senator for Nairobi, you cannot rise on a point of order against the Cabinet Secretary. It is up to the Speaker to rule.

Proceed and conclude, hon. Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Economic Planning

: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I was just explaining that we need proper sensitisation of the youth in terms of how to run the businesses that they are going to start using the NYOTA programme.

Again, we need no lesser office than the Head of State to articulate and explain to the youth the agenda of the Government. He was elected to address the problems of Kenya. The President was not elected to sit at the State House. We need a president who reaches out to Kenyans, talks to them and explains the Government programmes.

On the question by the Senate Majority Leader---

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, the question that has been asked by the Senator for Nairobi is for you to tell the country how much has been expended.

The Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Economic Planning

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, if I were ---

If you do not have the figure--- The Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Economic Planning

: Mr. Speaker, Sir, what I know is that it has been spent within the budget of the President to run the Government. The President has a budget at the State House to run programmes.

Order! Order, hon. Senators.

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Hon. Speaker---

Sen. Wakoli, resume your seat, please. Yes, Honourable CS. The Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury and Economic Planning

: Hon. Speaker, it is true. I forgot to address three questions. I was writing them. One is by Sen. Veronica Maina.

On the issue of fire incidences in various places in Murang’a, we have a special state department dealing with emergencies and interventions like this one, the special programmes. We resource them very well when there are these emergencies because they cannot wait. So, I may not have information on what interventions have been taken, but that state department deals with emergencies.

On the issue of Sen. Abass, he asked me how much we have allocated to the 13 counties for drought mitigation. When drought or incidences of drought began in July, last year, the people we projected that would be affected were just about two million. Now, the figure has risen to 3.3 million.

The first request that I got, we gave Kshs3 billion to support in the month of August. In the month of November, we gave Kshs2.5 billion. That is Kshs5.5 billion. Then, again, in December, we gave Kshs3 billion. So, that is Kshs8.5 billion. Besides that, we also gave Kshs500 million specifically for livestock intervention. So, Kshs9.057

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What question was it?

That was Sen. Betty Montet. The Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury and Economic Planning (Hon. Mbadi) : Okay. I think I captured it wrong. Kitui Senator is Wambua, is it not?

Yes. The Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury and Economic Planning

: I got it completely wrong. Now, poverty reduction or mitigation; very thin line. When you mitigate, you intervene and mitigate poverty. Chances are that you end up reducing poverty in the long run. This is because, again, that intervention helps to give the capacity to help reduce poverty. We have seen it by the way those who are getting cash transfer, some of them may even end up saving part of that money to pay school fees. When they pay school fees, their children get educated and that is one way of giving empowerment and reducing poverty. So, it can be both. Our interventions are both reduction and mitigation.

Thank you.

Okay. I think I captured it wrong. Kitui Senator is Wambua, is it not?

Yes. The Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury and Economic Planning

: I got it completely wrong. Now, poverty reduction or mitigation; very thin line. When you mitigate, you intervene and mitigate poverty. Chances are that you end up reducing poverty in the long run. This is because, again, that intervention helps to give the capacity to help reduce poverty. We have seen it by the way those who are getting cash transfer, some of them may even end up saving part of that money to pay school fees. When they pay school fees, their children get educated and that is one way of giving empowerment and reducing poverty. So, it can be both. Our interventions are both reduction and mitigation.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for calming various voices in the background.

I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury and Economic Planning the following Question.

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Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Sen. Wafula, do you have any supplementary questions? We shall proceed to take supplementary questions from the other Senators. Sen. Alexander Mundigi, please proceed.

Asante, Bw. Spika. Swali langu ni kwa Waziri. Kulingana na the Public Procurement and Asset Disposal Act, kuna magari mengi katika Embu County ambayo yanafaa yauzwe. Najua hili swali halihusu Embu County pekee. Hazina log books, suala ambalo limekuwa katika audit query kila mara. Ningependa kujua hizo log books zitapatika wakati upi na haya magari yataondolewa wakati gani, ili magari hayo yaweze kuondolowa ama---

Sen. Mundigi, hakuna kitu kama general questions. Hakuna kitu kama hicho. Swali lako linafaa kuhusiana na lile swali ambalo limeulizwa na Sen. Wafula.

Sen. Mundigi, hakuna kitu kama general questions. Hakuna kitu kama hicho. Swali lako linafaa kuhusiana na lile swali ambalo limeulizwa na Sen. Wafula.

Lakini, before yule Spika mwingine aondoke, nilikuwa nimeuliza---

Lilipitwa na wakati.

No. Aliondoka na akasema nitauliza under general questions.

Tutawachia Waziri aamue kama ana hiyo information ili akupe jawabu. Ikiwa hana, itakuwa ni jukumu lake pengine kukuandikia kando.

Sen. Moses Kajwang’, najua umengojea lakini siunaona orodha hapo?

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Nimeona.

Nilikuwa natafuta jina lako.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I was about to ask my question in Swahili, then I remembered that it is Cabinet Secretary Mbadi in the House. I might challenge him a bit if I proceeded in Swahili.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Cabinet Secretary Mbadi is one of those people who make me believe in this Government because of the actions he has taken since he went into office.

I would like to ask on the digital credit providers. In 2000, Joe Donde moved this nation to amend the Banking Act, and we introduced Section 44 (a) , that introduced the in duplum rule. I would like to find out from the Cabinet Secretary what measures the National Treasury is taking to ensure that digital credit providers do not violate Section 44 (a) of the Banking Act, which simply states that interest should never exceed the principal. We have seen most of these online and digital credit platforms, where the interest is exploitative and sometimes is double or triple the principle.

Could the Cabinet Secretary tell us what he is doing to ensure that the digital credit providers (DCPs) are also regulated, as well as subjected to Section 44 (a) of the Banking Act. In as much as they might not be pure banks, it is important for Kenyans to be protected from exploitative interest and lending behaviours.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Thank you. Sen. Steve Lelegwe, please, proceed.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I would like to ask a supplementary question to the Cabinet Secretary regarding the first Question, Question No.0001. I am not sure whether I can proceed.

We have passed that already. Sen. Mohamed Chute, please, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir---

Just a moment. Senators, if you are not intending to ask a Question, could you, please, unclick your button, so that we can have only the Senators who want to ask questions on the schedule?

Proceed, Sen. Chute.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The Question I am about to ask is within the knowledge of the CS, which is a bit out of what we are here for today. However, if you can answer now, it is fine. If you can answer later on, it is also fine.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is Engineer Joseph Waqo Guyo, Personal Number 1986059914. The engineer died in November 2020 and to date, the dues have not been paid. His wife, the widow, asked me to ask the CS---

Sen. Chute, I am going to remind you the same thing I reminded Sen. Mundigi. You are asking a question which is outside the line Question which has been asked.

I have said it.

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Yes, you have said it, but your question is so detailed about an individual. You cannot expect the CS at this very moment to answer that question.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I said he can answer now or later on.

No, he cannot answer now or later because it is not part of the line Question.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am asking this Question---

Sen. Chute, if I am about to advise you, seek an appointment with the Cabinet Secretary to take the matter to him, because he will have to ask his officers for the file. You cannot expect him---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir---

No! We will not argue on this, Sen. Chute. Please, take a seat. We are going to take the next Question.

Sen. Joe Nyutu, please, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I refer to Question No. (b) and the response by the Cabinet Secretary, about exorbitant interest rates and what the Cabinet Secretary is doing to see to it that Kenyans are not exploited through these predatory lending practices. So, I would like to ask the Cabinet Secretary, whom Sen. Kajwang’ has described as one of the reasons that he trusts this Government, to tell us whether he thinks that the former situation that we had, where we had fixed bank lending rates, is something that we should revisit.

In my view, this was very progressive to borrowers. Does he think that we can go back to the situation where we had fixed bank lending rates? If not, tell us why he thinks that we should not go back to that particular situation.

Thank you.

Sen. Samson Cherarkey, please, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I want to find out from the Cabinet Secretary on the issue of digital credit providers. We have seen most of them are exploitative in terms of interest, and have shylock-like behaviours, called predatory lending. What mechanisms have been put in place by the Ministry of National Treasury and Economic Planning to ensure that these digital lenders operate within the Banking Act; they are not exploitative like Mshwari, in the case of Safaricom and on blacklisting? As you are aware, there was hue and a cry, especially from the youth. When you borrow, they sometimes even switch off your phone, even if it is mulika mwizi. In short, we need consumer protection, especially for digital lenders.

I ask Sen. Nyutu not to worry. There is a lot to believe in this Government. You should not be pessimistic. There is a lot that we are doing even in Murang’a, the Mau Mau Roads. I yield.

Sen. Cherarkey, why do you seek points of order for no reason? You are just supposed to ask your question.

Sen. Nyutu, what is your point of order?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, Sen. Cherarkey should stop chest-thumping all the time and take time to listen.

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Sen. Mundigi.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, mine is a point of order. It is very difficult to get these Cabinet Secretaries so that we can ask them questions on whichever platform. I know it might be easier to say, “let Eddie Oketch go to the Cabinet Secretary’s office.” However, I can tell you that I have called several Cabinet Secretaries, including the one who is here, Hon. John Mbadi, but I did not get them on the phone. So, when they come to this House---

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Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not envy you. It is very difficult to steer this House on track sometimes with the kind of interactions I have seen this morning.

I have a quick question for the Cabinet Secretary with regard to Question No.002 on these predatory lending practices by various business entities.

One of the reasons why I celebrate you, Cabinet Secretary, is that you have really demystified this position of the Cabinet Secretary in charge of the National Treasury. You are the first Cabinet Secretary in charge of finance to go to Bunge la Mwananchi and engage citizens at the level that you are doing. I would wish that you would do it more.

At your next visit, Hon. Cabinet Secretary, please interact with our young men who ply the boda boda business. You will know how much of a menace this problem is to them. Some people give them motorbikes and at the end of the paying period, they will have paid almost triple the amount it would have cost them to acquire that particular motorbike.

When you tie that to the question that was asked by your own senator, Sen. Moses Kajwang, you appreciate that these companies are completely in violation of all existing laws of the land. So, what is the State Department doing with particular focus on the boda boda sector and the loan sharks that exist in that particular space that are exploiting our young people, who slave for them? By the time they finish paying the loan of the motorbike, the motorbike is actually completely worn out. There is nothing else they can do with it and they have not made anything substantial saving for themselves. Can we curb this menace?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do not envy you. It is very difficult to steer this House on track sometimes with the kind of interactions I have seen this morning.

I have a quick question for the Cabinet Secretary with regard to Question No.002 on these predatory lending practices by various business entities.

One of the reasons why I celebrate you, Cabinet Secretary, is that you have really demystified this position of the Cabinet Secretary in charge of the National Treasury. You are the first Cabinet Secretary in charge of finance to go to Bunge la Mwananchi and engage citizens at the level that you are doing. I would wish that you would do it more.

At your next visit, Hon. Cabinet Secretary, please interact with our young men who ply the boda boda business. You will know how much of a menace this problem is to them. Some people give them motorbikes and at the end of the paying period, they will have paid almost triple the amount it would have cost them to acquire that particular motorbike.

When you tie that to the question that was asked by your own senator, Sen. Moses Kajwang, you appreciate that these companies are completely in violation of all existing laws of the land. So, what is the State Department doing with particular focus on the boda boda sector and the loan sharks that exist in that particular space that are exploiting our young people, who slave for them? By the time they finish paying the loan of the motorbike, the motorbike is actually completely worn out. There is nothing else they can do with it and they have not made anything substantial saving for themselves. Can we curb this menace?

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Proceed, Sen. Enock Wambua.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. For some strange reason, Sen. Cheruiyot seems to have asked the question that I wanted to ask, but I will ask a different one. Bw. Cabinet Secretary, let me congratulate you for what you are trying to do to rein in these predators, but the real predators will be found in the shylock space; people preying on the desperation of Kenyans, especially young Kenyans, for quick money. The repayment is as painful as the pain can get.

What would your Ministry do to ensure that you clean up that mess about the shylocks? They are exploiting young people and are bringing a lot of pain to households. I know several families that have been broken because of activities of shylocks. What are you doing about that space?

Thank you.

Sen. Maanzo, proceed?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, a very brief one on the same. Is the Cabinet Secretary aware of the credit facilities where logbooks are used to borrow monies; the practicality of the interest rates which keep on changing on a daily basis such that it becomes very difficult to ever recover your car once you have given it to these creditors who use logbooks as security for quick loans? Is the Government controlling that sector also?

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Cabinet Secretary, respond. Give

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Yes, Senate Majority Leader.

Thank you, Temporary Speaker, Sir, for indulging me before the Cabinet Secretary leaves. This is the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury and, therefore, it is important that we engage him as a House on certain things. I know that we are in the Budget Policy Statement (BPS) season. I have said that I appreciate this Cabinet Secretary because he is distinct in how he does his things. Part of the bigger problem the Senate of the Republic has always had with the National Treasury is how much they ignore the findings and the resolutions of the Senate with regards to the BPS. They never respond to them, none of it is ever acted.

So, I challenge Cabinet Secretary Mbadi, that if you want to become successful even more than what you already have become, please, take time and build into our national budget the recommendation from the Senate on the BPS. All your other previous ministers have ignored it and I do not want to say what the results have been.

Lastly, as a House, we have tried to pursue the very elusive Kshs450 billion plus shareable revenue to counties. Given that there are a few key state departments that you are now taking off main national budget by funding them through the National Infrastructure Fund programme, which the Government is introducing, as you come back to us in a month or two, Cabinet Secretary, with a budget proposal, kindly try and push it as far as Kshs450 billion. That is a request from the Senate.

I thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker.

Thank you, Senate Majority Leader. Hon. Senators, we have come to the end of Question Time with the Cabinet Secretary.

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That is in order. Thank you very much, Cabinet Secretary. Thank you very much and have a good afternoon. It is still morning, sorry. Good morning.

Please, Serjeant-at-Arms, usher in the next Cabinet Secretary. (The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence in the Public Gallery, this morning of visiting teachers and students from Mwongori High School in Nyamira County.

The delegation consists of seven teachers and 44 students. In our usual tradition of receiving and welcoming visitors to Parliament, I extend a warm welcome to the delegation. On behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I wish them a fruitful visit.

I thank you. Sen. Enoch Wambua, you can welcome them.

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Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I thank you for this opportunity to extend a word of welcome to the visiting delegation of our students and teachers from Nyamira County. I thank them for choosing to visit the Senate of the Republic of Kenya. I know that the Senator for Nyamira, who is our Commissioner in the Parliamentary Service Commission, and who sits next to me, is at home undertaking important national and county duty. I also want to thank the students and the teachers and send them to their parents to extend our appreciation from the alternative Government for the warm reception that they have given our team in Nyamira and Kisii. If we continue this way, the future is looking very bright.

I thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, Question No. 003 is about the fatal shooting of Mr. Victor Kipng’eno Mutai, by police officers. This is a question from Nominated Senator, Hon. Joyce Korir. She has requested to be apprised of the fatal shooting of Mr. Victor Kipng’eno Mutai by police officers on 23rd July, 2024 in Bomet County.

The Hon. Member particularly sought to be informed on –

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Thank you, Cabinet Secretary. Sen. Shakila, do you have a supplementary question?

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Now we move on to questions by other Senators. Senators, remember it is one question each. Cabinet Secretary, please, take note of the questions. We will ask the questions and then give you opportunity to answer all of them.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Just from the response of the Cabinet Secretary on the policy on compensation, I would like to know whether his ministry is considering, because policy is a ministerial issue, passing a policy on compensation of victims of police brutality, proposing or giving Parliament or Senate the legislative proposals for us to amend so that these victims of police brutality are compensated.

We are aware that there was an effort and some people went to court. Sometimes we do not understand these people who say we want people to be compensated, yet they are the ones who are also going to court.

I would like to indicate to the good Senator that the hon. Millie Odhiambo proposed a law to Kenya called Victim Protection Act. Also, there was a Victim Compensation Act, which---

Sen. Maanzo, are you asking a question or informing somebody? Please, ask your question.

Madam Temporary Speaker, now that the Cabinet Secretary says there is no policy, what plans does the Ministry have to establish a victim compensation policy and also an Act of Parliament to that effect, so that a fund may be set up to compensate victims of police brutality?

Thank you.

Sen. Nyutu.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I would like to ask the Cabinet Secretary what he is doing to ensure that incidents of the police killing wananchi, whether innocent or otherwise, are reduced, if not completely stopped. I ask this because in the recent past, there have been many such incidents. In my county, one man was killed in a police cell called Mukura.

Sen. Nyutu, you have asked the question. Do not use the opportunity to speak to the issues you have asked.

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Madam Temporary Speaker, sometimes it is good to show the basis of the question one is asking.

You know the rules. The basis is Question No.003. Please, sit down. You have asked your question. Sen. Cherarkey, proceed.

Madam Temporary Speaker, my question relates to Question No.003 by Sen. Joyce. I want to find out from the Cabinet Secretary, since he is always quick to speak in the media and at political rallies, the status of the investigation into the killing of Father Allois Cheruiyot Bett.

I also ask about the killings that happened in Kimwani in Tinderet Constituency, Nandi County. What is the status, including policy and any administrative action taken against senior police officers, on the youth attacked by police while playing a pool game in Nandi Hills Town, Nandi County?

Sen. Wambua.

Madam Temporary Speaker, allow me to use the Dispatch. This is the closest I can get to the Cabinet Secretary. I do not see much of him these days.

First, I wish to condole with the family of Mr. Victor Kipngeno for the loss of their kin. My question is based on the policy direction that the Cabinet Secretary is considering to give to the National Police Service (NPS) . Killings by police officers have become too common. What policy direction is he giving to the Service to ensure that everybody feels safe in the presence of police officers?

I thank you.

Sen. Veronica Maina.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. Welcome back to the Senate, Hon. Cabinet Secretary. We have not seen you for a while. You might need to give us a time slot when we can meet you. Kenyans have raised concerns against the police service for the way they manage riots and political rallies.

What policy intervention have you undertaken to ensure that the police are more friendly to the people? Citizens should not face the gun but rather engage in negotiation with the police. What are you doing to ensure that the heightened political tension in rallies does not escalate beyond control? Right now, there is heavy tension and 2027 is still far away.

Thank you.

Sen. Shakila, you already asked your supplementary questions. Is it a different matter?

It is related to the same question.

You already had your chance. That is the point I am making. Cabinet Secretary, you may now answer the questions. I have noted that Sen. Cherarkey’s questions are linked to Question No. 003 (c) . If you are not able to give the full detail, you may undertake to provide that information later. If you are able to answer, then you can answer. You may proceed.

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Hon. Senators, we now move on to Question No.4. This is a question by Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda but Senator Wafula Wakoli will ask on his behalf. You may proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I welcome Waziri Kipchumba and his entourage. I can see one of our daughters of the soil giving him tips of wisdom. Waziri knows.

Sen. Wakoli, why are you conversing instead of asking the question? Please, proceed.

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It is a question. Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you may answer the question.

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: Madam Temporary Speaker, this is a very broad question and I beg your indulgence to respond accordingly.

On the first part, on the details of the registered incidents of mob injustice and related fatalities from January 2025 to date, the following are the reported incidents of mob injustice and related fatalities in the country from January 2025 to date.

I have given the list and I do not wish to read all of it for all these counties, however, just to capture a few, you will find that in counties like Machakos, we have 22 fatalities, in Embu, we have 33, in Kisumu, we have 36 fatalities, in Vihiga, we have 20, in Kilifi, we have 18, in Kisii, we have 18, in Migori, we have 19, and in Nairobi, we have 55 fatalities of mob injustice. Sorry, Kiambu was higher with 58. That points to a very serious issue with the rule of law. People, generally, do not believe in the judicial system and the justice system of the country, all the way from arrest to prosecution to conviction.

When you ask this question all the time, why do people resort to mob justice or what mob injustice is, the answer is always that if this person is taken to court, he will be released on bail. People do not understand bond or bail. They do not also understand that the justice system requires a certain level of burden of proof. They cannot, and sometimes they blame the police when someone has been arrested, charged and released on bail.

So, some of these things are escalating this kind of mob injustice. To have 58 in Kiambu and 55 in Nairobi is a measure of something---

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Sen. Wakoli, do you have supplementary questions? We have quite a number of follow-up questions, and I request the Senators to go straight to the question so that we can give everyone a chance. Sen. Chute, please proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Our Cabinet Secretary has been in this House before and I wanted him to tell this House how we can communicate with him. We have issues of abduction and extrajudicial killings in Marsabit County. I sent a letter to him, a statement that I had made to him on---

Sen. Chute, the question is supposed to be related to this question that has been asked.

Yes, it is a communication. This issue has been raised earlier by even Sen. Eddy. I sent a letter to him on 8th August, 2025. No reply; that is on the abductions. Then, on extrajudicial killing, I sent a letter to him on 27th January, 2026, which was received in his office on 28th .

Sen. Chute, you risk me actually calling you out of order because the question is about mob injustice. So, you are supposed to ask a question that is related to what the Cabinet Secretary was asked.

Madam Temporary Speaker, what I am trying to ask is if there was mob justice, for example and I want to ask the Cabinet Secretary, how do I communicate with him if there is a problem in Marsabit County? He is here today before us.

It is noted.

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Thank you. So, again, that letter was received on 28th January, 2026. Today is 25th February, 2026. There is no reply up to date. You have many officers working in your office. You cannot ask one officer to reply to my letters. I speak on behalf of all the Senators who are here today.

Sen. Seki, please, proceed.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. A question to the Cabinet Secretary, I think you are very much aware about the police brutality in Kitengela most of the times. This brings issues of this question that is on the table and we have been wondering, why are these issues of police brutalities and killing occurring in my county particularly? Is it just because probably you had been given some instructions some time back that people should be killed? That is what I wanted to know.

Order, Sen. Seki. Please follow the rules of question time. The question is about mob injustices.

That is where---

No, what you have asked so far has nothing to do with that.

It is about mob---

No, it has nothing to do with that.

It is about that. I am asking the Cabinet Secretary to tell us why. Is it because of that instruction that you have given out that people in Kajiado are being killed?

Sen. Seki, please, order. Sen. Mandago, what is your point of order?

Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. First, the people at the dispatch box must always ensure that when the chair asks a Senator to sit, they switch off the microphone. I just wanted to ask under Standing Order No.105, whether the Senator for Kajiado---

Sen. Cherarkey, you do not have the right to just speak, okay? Let us follow the rules. Sen. Mandago is on a point of order. Could we listen? Could we hear that point of order?

I rise under Standing Order No.105 to ask whether the Senator for Kajiado is in order to allege that the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration issued a shoot-to-kill order. Could he substantiate or provide evidence? This is a House of records and we cannot allow people to make sweeping statements that are alarming.

Sen. Seki, you actually made reference as to whether the Cabinet Secretary had instructed the killings. Do you want to substantiate that? Sen. Wambua, please, allow me to coordinate this. He stood on a point of order. Let Sen. Seki respond and then you can raise your issue.

Yes, Madam Temporary Speaker. I can substantiate that, given time. If you could allow me to finish my question. My people are---

Sen. Chute, what is your point of order?

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Madam Temporary Speaker, let me refer you to Standing Order No. 51 (6) (c) . Let me start with, first of all (a) .

‘6) A Cabinet Secretary–

“May” with the permission of the Speaker, I have not granted that permission. Please, Sen. Chute---

Let me finish, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Sen. Chute, I have actually responded to you. “May” with the permission of the Speaker. Sen. Wambua, what is your point of order?

Madam Temporary Speaker, and I want you to hear this, because I want to address the Chair. Mine is a very simple plea to the Chair; that you rise on a point of order, like the one that Sen. Mandago asked, on substantiation of facts in the absence of the subject of the question being raised. The Cabinet Secretary is here. The Cabinet Secretary has capacity to respond to the question that Sen. Seki has asked. I do not see why a Senator should rise on a point of order and seek substantiation when the subject of the question is in the House. I mean, it does not make sense.

Sen. Wambua, you are out of order. Substantiation is a point of fact. Sen. Seki, you have asked for more time. The next sitting is this afternoon. Please, you will have the opportunity to substantiate. Can you finalize your question, please?

Madam Temporary Speaker, I wanted the Cabinet Secretary to clarify why these killings. We have been having public engagements and rallies in Kajiado. My people are being killed like rats and he is in the office.

In one incident, he gave instructions. Is it because of that? He needs to clarify to this House. If it is not because of that, then he needs to apologise to Kenyans why my people in Kajiado are being killed like rats by the same Government.

Proceed, Sen. Maanzo.

Madam Temporary Speaker, now that the Cabinet Secretary has provided data on mob injustice killings, does he also have data on mistaken identity killings? This is because a lot of times, mob justice or injustice scenarios are cases of mistaken identity.

Next is Sen. Kisang.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to find out from the Cabinet Secretary whether there is any plan between his Ministry and the Ministry of Roads and Transport. This is because some mob injustices arise as a result of road accidents involving boda boda riders and vehicles. Is there a plan or policy in place to ensure continuous sensitisation and training of boda boda riders on the laws?

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Proceed, Sen. Nyutu.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the Cabinet Secretary has admitted that mob justice or injustice is happening because people have little trust in law enforcement agencies.

He has said that one of the steps that the Ministry is taking is under No.4; that is, establishing accessing and structured mechanisms through which members of the public can lodge complaints or report misconduct. That includes reporting to the Police Quality Assurance Department and Internal Affairs Unit.

The other day, there was an attack on Anglican Church of Kenya (ACK) Witima in Nyeri and very few people in Kenya had heard about the Internal Affairs Unit within the police. The question then to Cabinet Secretary, Hon. Murkomen, is this. Exactly where is it based or where can our people report to and can they trust the Internal Affairs Unit of the police, where the police are the ones investigating fellow police officers who commit injustices?

Proceed, Sen. Aaron Cheruiyot.

Madam Temporary Speaker, this is a very serious matter that we are discussing because mob justice in many occasions leads to death and we have been given the statistics by the Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary should pay very close attention to this subject, particularly those that are politically instigated.

For example, I have just seen a video of a young man who was attacked by a mob this morning; people carrying machetes and rungus somewhere in Nyamira because I think he had a contrary view to the ongoings by a section of the political faction in the country.

There is a connection between politicians and their political activities and some of the mob justice incidences which perhaps the Ministry needs to give policy direction on and the desire to hold to account political players who incite young people to violence and things of the sort. They should be brought to book as a lesson because it may not be possible to arrest people who commit those acts at that particular time. At least, it should happen to politicians who instigate them, if they are known, particularly those that actively engage young people to engage in such activities. What plans does the Ministry have?

Madam Temporary Speaker, why it should be of concern to the Cabinet Secretary is because in 2021 when we were in the opposition with him, we were victims of political mob justice in London Ward in Nakuru. The only reason - perhaps he may have forgotten - is because he is quicker than me therefore, he ran faster and so he did not fall victim to the gangs like I did.

Sen. Cheruiyot, I want to cut you short because of the time left.

We have four more Senators. Ask your question quickly because we only have 10 minutes for all those questions to be asked and answered.

Sen. Hezena, you have the Floor.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I welcome the Cabinet Secretary, Hon. Murkomen, to the House. Just to remind him this: Kindly be picking our calls. Like

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Sorry for rushing you. Please just go straight to the question because the time is short.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I would like to know what the Ministry has done to ensure that police at the grassroots are strengthened and facilitated enough to deal with criminal gangs that are mushrooming across the whole country especially in urban centres. In Maralal, we had a case of a boy being stabbed---

Senator, you have asked your question. Proceed, Sen. Veronica.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity.

Cabinet Secretary, on this question of mob justice, I do not know whether you have put focus on the conflict between the boda boda sector when there are accidents because some of mob justices occur as a result of those incidences.

Secondly, from politically instigated public gatherings, Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you should have the freedom to even ban public gatherings if people are going to be clobbered, beaten and killed in the name of politics---

Sen. Veronica, please, just ask your question.

Let me then ask the specific question. Why are you not working closely with the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) to ensure that politicians who overstep their mandate in public gatherings which turn violent are brought to book and punished for those actions? Women are no longer addressing those gatherings.

Proceed, Sen. Mundigi.

Asante, Bw. Spika---

Sen. Mundigi, sio Bw. Spika.

Samahani, Bi. Spika wa Muda. Swali langu kwa Waziri ni kuhusu joto la kisiasa tunapoelekea kwenye uchaguzi wa 2027. Je, utafanya nini ili tukifika wakati huo mambo ya usalama yatakuwa sawa ndio tusiwe na shida? Inaonekana kuna vyama vingi na watu wanapigana na kulaumu Serikali- --

Cabinet Secretary, Hon. Murkomen, so far you are doing well. Madam Temporary Speaker, last weekend I was at home with members of the public---

Sen. Ogola, please, ask your question.

Cabinet Secretary, Kanyikela Ward was gazetted and people are asking when it will be operational. That is in Ndhiwa Sub County.

I do not know whether that is related to the Question.

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Hon. Cabinet Secretary, you have about 3 minutes.

The Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration

: I am almost coming to the end. On the political activities, I will reiterate what the Majority Leader said about political players. Yes, some gangs are properly and fully utilised by politicians, 100 per cent.

You saw some of the challenges we had in Kisii this weekend courtesy of political activities in that area. Both those who are campaigning and their competitors are mobilizing young people. Some of them have unique uniforms in light of the political

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Hon. Senators, it is now 1.10 p.m. Having concluded the business for which I extended the hours of sitting pursuant to Standing Order 34 (2) (A) , the Senate stands adjourned until today, Wednesday, 25th February, 2026 at 2.30 p.m.

The House rose at 1:10 p.m.

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