Wednesday, 8th June 2022

Hon. Members, we do not have the required quorum. Therefore, I order that the Quorum Bell be rung for 10 minutes.

Order, Members! The three Members who are standing out there to, kindly, come in. You are the ones we are waiting for.

We now have quorum.

We can now proceed.

I can see that there are quite a number of Chairs of Committees who want to lay their Papers. The Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Lands! He seems not ready. The Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) , are you ready?

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Kindly, give me about ten minutes or so.

Okay. The Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Sports, Culture and Tourism.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. First of all, I know that tomorrow is the last day. I wish all Members of this House a comeback and peaceful campaigns. I know that times were hard during nominations and now that we are settled, let me wish them prosperous campaigns and a comeback.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House: The Exit Report of the Departmental Committee on Sports, Culture and Tourism for the 12th Parliament, 2017/2018.

I thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

Very well. Next is the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security. I cannot see him.

The Vice-Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning, Hon. Waihenya Ndirangu. He is one of the oldest Members of this House. I think he came to the House way before Hon. Jimmy Nuru Angwenyi. He is senior in terms of having come to this House earlier than the rest of us. He was here in 1992, and I am not sure if Hon. Jimmy was still in the University of Nairobi then doing the chalk work. Proceed!

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House:

The Report of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning, on its consideration of the Kenya Revenue Authority (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 24 of 2022) .

The Exit Report of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning for the 12th Parliament. Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

Very well. Hon. Jimmy Angwenyi, however, agrees that you might have come here way earlier, but you also, hold a record of being the Member who stayed away too long. You only came back after a very long grace period –almost two decades as he claims.

I do not think there is any other Chairperson who is ready to do that bit. So, we will move to the next Order.

Majority Whip.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. On behalf of the Leader of the Majority Party, I beg to move:

THAT, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 30 (3) (b) , this House resolves to hold a Morning Sitting on Thursday, June 9, 2022 commencing at 9.30

Hon. Angwenyi.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I rise to second the Motion. It is important that we clear all priority items in our programme before we go for the sine die recess. I second.

Put the Question.

Okay, very briefly Leader of the Minority Party. I hear many Members saying that they want to wish each other well in terms of coming back here and so forth. I am giving you the opportunity to hear what you have to say.

Hon. John Mbadi

: Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I want to support this Motion that we have Parliament sit tomorrow although I am a bit engaged. Unfortunately, I will not be there tomorrow to contribute. I, therefore, want to take advantage of this time. Probably, this could be the last time I am speaking on the Floor of this House, at least for the next five years. I am not sure if after that I will want to come back again.

It has been an eventful career for me. I have enjoyed the 15 years that the great people of Suba South have given me to represent them in this House. I know as a human being I have not lived to the expectations of Kenyans in certain aspects, but I have done my best. I wish my colleagues who are seeking re-election the best of luck regardless of their parties. Of course, I would want my party to win more seats in this House and I believe we are going to do so. Those who are on the other side, we have been friends and I wish you well in your endeavours.

Thank you, I support.

Hon. Pukose, if you really want to wish your colleague, Hon. Mbadi well, you still have the afternoon sitting and tomorrow’s Sittings to do so. It has been recorded anyway. Equity treats as done that which ought to be done. So, we can move to the next Order.

Before we move to next Order, let us see if the Chair of the Parliamentary Accounts Committee (PAC) and the Chair of Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security can table their Reports quickly, then we will move to the next Order. Members, please, let us maintain the numbers. We have to put Questions on a few other items. I do not want to say that no Member will be allowed to leave the House. I encourage Members not to leave the Chamber at least for the next 10 minutes.

Proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House:

The Report of the PAC on the examination of the Report of the Auditor- General on the Financial Statements for the national Government for the Financial Year 2019/2020.

Thank you.

Well, we will have the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security then we will give you an opportunity to give your notice of Motion.

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House:

Reports of the Departmental Committee on Administration and National Security on its consideration of:

Very well. So we can now have the PAC Chairman to give notice. I can see Hon. Githiaka in the House.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to give notice of the following Motion.

THAT, this House adopts the Report of the PAC on the examination of the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for the national Government for the Financial Year 2019/2020 laid on the Table of the House, today.

Alright. We go to the next Order.

Hon. Members, be still. Order, Hon. Jimmy Nuru Angwenyi!

(The Bill was read a Second Time and committed to a Committee of the whole House today by leave of the House)

Next Order!

SCHEDULE I VOTE CODE VOTE/PROGRAMME CODES & TITLE FINAL SUPPLEMENTARY II BUDGET ESTIMATES FY 2021/22 GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES Executive Office of the President 3,525,873,881 928,890,557 4,454,764,438

VOTE CODE VOTE/PROGRAMME CODES & TITLE FINAL SUPPLEMENTARY II BUDGET ESTIMATES FY 2021/22 GROSS CURRENT ESTIMATES GROSS CAPITAL ESTIMATES GROSS TOTAL ESTIMATES State Department for Interior and Citizen Services (255,000,000) 200,000,000 (55,000,000)

State Department for Correctional Services (800,000,000) - (800,000,000)

State Department for Devolution 600,000,000 - 600,000,000

State Department for Development of the ASAL - (232,000,000)

Ministry of Defence 1,760,000,000 - 1,760,000,000

Ministry of Foreign Affairs 999,470,555 - 999,470,555

State Department for Vocational and Technical Training 47,970,156 - 47,970,156

(5,800,000) State Department for University Education 1,405,692,309 32,598,600 1,438,290,909

0506000 Research, Science, Technology and Innovation

73,132,000 -

3,500,000 State Department for Early Learning & Basic Education 94,227,000 1,457,022,388 1,551,249,388

81,627,000 State Department for Post Training and Skills Development -

(756,085) State Department for Implementation of Curriculum Reforms -

The National Treasury (978,500,000) 2,386,830,906 1,408,330,906

0719000 Economic and Financial Policy Formulation and Management

12,912,646 (440,000,000)

1,977,723 State Department for Planning 7,500,000 - 7,500,000

6,493,154 Ministry of Health 877,569,230 (4,650,105,729) (3,772,536,499)

(941,333,384) State Department of Infrastructure (450,000,000) 27,152,000,000 26,702,000,000

26,702,000,000 State Department of Transport -

0205000 Air Transport

- 0216000 Road Safety

-

State Department for Shipping and Maritime - (80,000,000)

State Department for Housing and Urban Development 230,351,630 (2,550,000,000) (2,319,648,370)

3,375,809 State Department for Public Works (31,900,000) - (31,900,000)

(8,000,000) Ministry of Environment and Forestry (25,000,000) (75,000,000) (100,000,000)

Ministry of Water, Sanitation and Irrigation (29,653,052) (3,755,500,000) (3,785,153,052)

Ministry of Lands and Physical Planning 51,200,000 238,000,000 289,200,000

289,200,000 State Department for Information Communication and Technology & Innovation - (1,500,000,000)

(1,931,000) State Department for Broadcasting & Telecommunications -

State Department for Sports 5,500,000 - 5,500,000

5,500,000 State Department for Culture and Heritage 44,200,000 - 44,200,000

Ministry of Energy (50,000,000) (8,347,000,000) (8,397,000,000)

120,000,000 State Department for Livestock (51,900,000) (60,100,000) (112,000,000)

(112,000,000) State Department for Fisheries, Aquaculture & the Blue Economy (13,200,000) 170,000,000 156,800,000

State Department for Crop Development & Agricultural Research (21,900,000) (5,076,943,800) (5,098,843,800)

0107000 General Administration Planning and Support Services

33,000,000 393,203,560

(28,000,000) State Department for Cooperatives 201,955,567 58,110,151 260,065,718

260,065,718 State Department for Trade and Enterprise Development 52,500,000 (80,000,000) (27,500,000)

(27,500,000) State Department for Industrialization 28,000,000 140,000,000 168,000,000

State Department for Labour 63,335,000 (63,335,000) -

(6,300,000) State Department for Social Protection, Senior 1,040,000,000 473,700,000 1,513,700,000

2,904,464 State Department for Petroleum and Mining 49,292,440,886 - 49,292,440,886

State Department for Tourism 678,889,000 - 678,889,000

678,889,000 State Department for Wildlife 1,790,000,000 - 1,790,000,000

1,790,000,000 State Department for Gender 6,023,200 5,521,800 11,545,000

6,023,200 State Department for Public Service 7,000,000 100,100,000 107,100,000

0710000 Public Service Transformation

1,000,000 100,100,000

State Department for Youth Affairs (13,000,000) (1,333,683,462) (1,346,683,462)

(1,346,683,462) State Department for East African Community 19,429,278 - 19,429,278

19,429,278 State Department for Regional & Northern Corridor Development 50,000,000 503,000,000 553,000,000

553,000,000 State Law Office and Department of Justice 40,000,000 6,500,000 46,500,000

24,000,000 Ethics and Anti- Corruption Commission 260,000,000 - 260,000,000

260,000,000 - 260,000,000 National Intelligence Service 1,300,000,000 - 1,300,000,000

Political Parties 969,000,000 - 969,000,000

0614000 Registration, Regulation and Funding of Political Parties

969,000,000 -

969,000,000 Witness Protection Agency (20,000,000) - (20,000,000)

(20,000,000) Kenya National Commission on Human Rights (9,000,000) - (9,000,000)

(9,000,000) National Land Commission (7,000,000) - (7,000,000)

(7,000,000) Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission -

The Commission on Revenue Allocation (19,589,554) - (19,589,554)

(19,589,554) Public Service Commission -

0728000 Salaries and Remuneration Management

-

Teachers Service Commission 2,221,286,774 - 2,221,286,774

133,000,000 National Police Service Commission -

Auditor General 41,000,000 (194,000,000) (153,000,000)

(153,000,000) Office of the Controller of Budget (6,500,000) - (6,500,000)

(6,500,000) Commission on Administrative Justice (10,000,000) - (10,000,000)

(10,000,000) National Gender and Equality Commission - 7,257,000

Independent Policing Oversight Authority (14,410,674) - (14,410,674)

(14,410,674) Sub-Total: Executive 64,903,861,186 5,861,863,411 70,765,724,597 The Judiciary 122,000,000 - 122,000,000

0610000 Dispensation of Justice

122,000,000 -

122,000,000 Judicial Service Commission (13,200,000) - (13,200,000)

(13,200,000) Sub-Total: Judiciary 108,800,000 - 108,800,000 Parliamentary Service Commission -

Sub-Total: Parliament - TOTAL 65,012,661,186 5,861,863,411 70,874,524,597 SCHEDULE II SUMMARY OF THE APPROVALS GRANTED UNDER ARTICLE 223 OF THE CONSTITUTION IN THE FY 2021/2022 SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES NO.2 Vote and Programme Details National Treasury Approval Dates Amount Disbursed/ Payment Disbursement Dates Remarks/Purpose 1021 State Department for Interior and Citizen Services 260,000,000 0629000 General Administration and Support Services 4/25/2022 260,000,000

Funds were granted

Burial of the third President of Republic of Kenya 1032 State Department for Devolution 200,000,000 Devolution Services 13/05/2022 200,000,000 13/05/2022 Provision for the Africities. Ksh200million funded by exchequer and Ksh.400million funded through AIA

1071 The National Treasury 1,000,000,000 0203000 Rail Transport 25/03/2022 1,000,000,000 Naivasha Inland Container depot- Longonot station

1091 State Department for Infrastructure - 8,650,000,000 0202000 Road Transport 31/03/2022&16/ 5/2022 8,650,000,000 6/3/2022& 2/6/2022 Funds for completion of ongoing roads construction

Funds for completion of ongoing roads construction & Kshs.650 million for the Compensation of Kenya Railways Retirees 1169 State Department for Crop Development & Agricultural Research 1,000,000,000 0108000 Crop Development and Management 4/4/2022 1,000,000,000 5/5/2022 Provision to cater for the fertilizer subsidy

1185 State Dpt for Social Protection, Senior Citizens Affairs & Special Programs 337,866,379 0909000 National Social Safety Net 14/42022 337,866,379 Relief food interventions to mitigate the effects of drought

1194 Ministry of Petroleum and Mining - 15,809,440,886

Vote and Programme Details National Treasury Approval Dates Amount Disbursed/ Payment Disbursement Dates Remarks/Purpose Exploration and Distribution of Oil and Gas 13/04/2022 & 24/03/2022& 25/5/2022 15,809,440,886 13/04/2022 & 24/03/2022& 25/5/2022 Funds to cater for fuel price stabilization

Just a minute. Let me find the amendments. The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Go to page 1710 of the Order Paper.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, for your indulgence. The Member for Mukurweini was asking what is there for Mukurweini.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 2 of the Bill be amended by deleting the words “one trillion six hundred two billion seven hundred thirty-one million three hundred thirty-seven thousand seven hundred and sixty-four” appearing immediately after the words “Kenya Shillings” and substituting therefor the words “one trillion six hundred eighteen billion one hundred fifty-one million three hundred thirty-seven thousand seven hundred sixty-four” Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. My apologies.

(Question, that the words to be left be left out,

put and agreed to) (Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to)

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:

THAT, the Schedule be amended—

Just a minute, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: All right. As Hon. Mwirigi prepares himself to prosecute his Bill, Hon. Osotsi, the business that appears as Order No. 13

(v)

is yours. So, prepare. Also, we will have Hon. Benjamin Washiali prosecuting the business appearing as Order No.13

(vi)

. We will follow that order.

Hon. Wangwe, are you standing in for the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Education and Research? Hon. Members, I have a little difficulty in proceeding with these proposals. This is because I do not see the Chairs of the Committees concerned with the proposals by Members. Let me hear from Hon. Wangwe on how to proceed with this. Hon. Wangwe.

Hon. Emmanuel Wangwe (Navakholo, JP) : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. The Chair of the Departmental Committee on Education and Research and the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Communication, Information and Innovation are absent. I am categorical about the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Education and Research with respect to the deletion which is being proposed by the Committee. There is no Member present. I am not in copy as to why they decided to undertake the deletion.

It is my humble request and submission to you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, that we drop the Higher Education Loans Board (Amendment) Bill and the Information, Communication Technology Practitioners Bill for now.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I can see that Hon. Nyamita is trying to speak. Maybe he has a contrary view. I was not able to reach the Chair. So, with your permission, you can give direction. As for the Higher Education Loans Board

(Amendment)

Bill, I am afraid...

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Hon. Wangwe, I am having difficulty accepting to go towards the direction that you are suggesting. The Movers are here. They are owners of these proposals. You can imagine how difficult it is to come up to this point.

It is incumbent on the Chairs to take their duties seriously and prosecute the Government’s agenda on these proposals. For that reason, I am giving direction that if the Movers, who are the owners of these proposals are in the House, we shall proceed. What will stand dropped are the proposals to amend or delete by the Chairs or their representatives if they are not available to

prosecute those proposals for amendment. We shall, therefore, move in this manner: we shall call each Order so that we deal with each at a time.

I had deferred the one by Hon. Osoro, and we are now on The Higher Education Loans Board (Amendment) Bill. If the Mover, Hon. John Mwirigi is ready, we can proceed.

Hon. Mwirigi, are you ready to proceed?

I am ready, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman.

I beg to move that the Committee does report to the House its consideration of the Higher Education Loans Board (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly No. 37 of 2020) and its approval thereof without amendment.

Thank you. The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Very well.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman (Hon. Christopher Omulele): We will move to the next business which is Order No.13(V).

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I am lucky to be having my Vice-Chair here. He is the sponsor of the amendment, but since I am a Member of the Committee, we will assist each other. We can proceed.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Very well. Let us proceed. Clause 3

THAT, Clause 3 of the Bill be amended by deleting paragraph (e) .

I am just waiting for some matrix here from my Clerk. Please, just give me a few minutes. I think it is already here.

The justification is that Clause 3 (e) of the Bill provides for one of the objects of the Acts to prescribe the offences for non-compliance with the requirements of registration and licensing as set out in the Act. The proposed amendment is in conformity with the Committee’s proposed amendment to Clause 19 of the Bill proposing that registration of an ICT practitioner should be voluntary.

I propose. The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Hon. Osotsi.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, as I said earlier, I was part of the process that agreed on these amendments and so I agree.

(Question, that the words to be left out

be left out, put and agreed to)

Clause 5

Hon. Temporary Chairman, I beg to move: -

THAT, Clause 5 of the Bill be amended —

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move: -

THAT, Clause 13 of the Bill be amended by deleting sub-clause (2) (d) . The justification is that the paragraph provides for additional functions of Chief Executive Officer which are not prescribed in the Bill.

I submit, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman.

Clause 19

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move: - THAT, Clause 19 of the Bill be amended—

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move: - THAT, Clause 22 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (3) (ii) by deleting the words “and all avenues of appeal have been exhausted”. The justification for this is, the provision raises the concern on, in case one does not appeal, are they allowed to remain on the register?

Furthermore, the provision creates the impression that a convicted person should then appeal even when there might not be need to do that in order to fulfil the requirements.

I move, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. Question of the amendment proposed)

Clause 25

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move: - THAT, Clause 25 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (3) by inserting the words “if satisfied that the ICT practitioner is guilty of professional misconduct or is in breach of any provisions of the Act” at the end of the sub-clause. The justification is that Clause 25 (3) fails to provide the grounds under which the council’s decision to issue or to refuse to renew the license and therefore leaving it to the council to make a decision without any parameters this could lead to abuse.

I propose.

Clause 27

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move: - THAT, Clause 27 of the Bill be deleted. As I indicated earlier, the proposed amendment is aligned to the proposed amendment to Clause 19 which provides for voluntary registration of ICT practitioners.

I beg to move. Question of the amendment proposed)

Clause 29

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move; - THAT, Clause 29 of the Bill be amended—

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move: - THAT, Clause 31 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new sub-clause immediately after sub-clause (1) — “ (1A) Despite subsection (1) , the Council may notify a member through other means indicated in the register where a person does not have a registered mail.” The justification is, the proposed amendment seeks to broaden the avenues in which a person can be informed of his or her removal from the register.

I propose

First schedule

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Let us have the Vice- Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Communication, Information and Innovation.

THAT, the First Schedule to the Bill be amended in paragraph (1) by inserting the words “for a further term of three years” at the end of the paragraph.

The justification is that the paragraph does not state the length of tenure of reappointment, and if reappointment can take place. The amendment clarifies the same.

Clause 2

The Temporary Deputy Chairman (Hon. Christopher Omulele): Let us have the Vice Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Communication, Information and Innovation.

THAT, Clause 2 of the Bill be amended—

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move that the Committee doth report to the House its consideration of the Information Communication Technology Practitioners Bill (National Assembly Bill No.38 of 2020) and its approval thereof with amendments.

we do that now, so that we complete that business. So, we are moving back to the Appropriation Bill (National Assembly Bill No.31 of 2022) for the purposes of reporting progress.

Let us have the Mover, the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move that the Committee doth report to the House its consideration of the Appropriation Bill (National Assembly Bill No.31 of 2022) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I am ready.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Very well. Let us do it.

Clause 4

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: There are amendments to this. Hon. Wangwe, you were standing in for the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning on this one. So, you will be prosecuting the amendments by the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning. Hon. Wangwe, you may proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I was to sit in for the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning, but the Vice-Chairman confirmed that he has the mandate to do so.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Is he here?

He is around. I have called him, and he says he is coming, but he has not. He said that he is the one with the mandate to do that. I am afraid I will not be able to sit in for the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning, because those are two contradicting instructions which I would not want to…

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: I see him running out there and I do not know why.

I am happy he is here. The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: That is okay. Let us give him a moment to settle down. Hon. Waihenya Ndirangu, we are waiting for you. Take a minute to settle down and then we shall prosecute this business. Are we ready to go? Vice-Chair just to bring you to speed, we had dealt with Clause 3 and now we are in Clause 4. Hon. Washiali had moved his proposal and you are also proposing to amend.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move that clause 4 be amended as…

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Let me help you so we can move quickly. There are quite a number of amendments to clause 4. For purposes of clear and clean moving of this, it is proposed you deal with subsections

(1)

,

(2)

(a)

and

(b)

first, before going to

(2)

(c)

which will be dealt with on its own.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman for your guidance.

I beg to move that clause 4

(a)

,

(1)

,

(2)

and

(3)

be amended. The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Vice-Chair move your proposals to amend clause 4

(1)

,

(2)

(a)

and

(b)

first. Then we shall deal with the others singularly as we move on. Hon. Waihenya can you see in your Order Paper where it is indicated clause 4

(1)

,

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, we have agreed with Hon. Washiali, I step down the amendments to clause 4 in entirety.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: So, you are stepping down those amendments. Just go on record clearly so we have it.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, we are in agreement with the initiator of this Bill, I step down amendments to clause 4 (1) , 2 (a) , (b) , (c) , (d) and (3) .

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: For the record, it is noted that the Committee has withdrawn its proposals to amend Clause 4. Hon. Washiali, you need to go on record because you also had proposals countering the ones by the Committee.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 4 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (2) by—

THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 5-

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 5 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) —

Also, be amended in sub-clause

(1)

(j)

.

Clause 6

THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 6 by-

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, there is a give and take in law making. In this case, let me allow the Chair to have his day.

(Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof

be inserted, put and agreed to)

The effect of that, the proposal by Hon. Washiali stands dropped because we have carried the one by the Chair.

Clause 10

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Chair.

THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 10 by inserting the following new subsections immediately after subsection (5) -

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I agree. This is just but aligning the Bill to the normal practice of hiring and firing. I, therefore, have no objection.

THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 13 by deleting –

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to withdraw this amendment in favour of Hon. Washiali’s.

Clause 17

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 17 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) —

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 18 of the Bill be amended

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 19 (1) of the Bill be amended —

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 20. This provision is being deleted because it has been moved to the miscellaneous provisions of the Bill.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Hon. Washiali, you note that you have nothing to amend. So, you cannot prosecute your amendment.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I will propose a new clause. If you look at my amendment, you will agree with me that I had also proposed to delete Clause 20 and introduce a new clause which I want to move. Can I do it?

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Hon. Washiali, you are in trouble. Your amendment seeks to delete sub-clause 1 of Clause 20 and substitute therefor a new sub-clause. However, the Chair has deleted Clause 20. So, it does not exist.

Ok. The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Very well. Clause 21

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Hon. Washiali, you have an amendment.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 21 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new sub-clause immediately after sub-clause (2) —

THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 23–

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, we have agreed with the Chair that the Institute can have its way which is different from what I had preferred to do.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Thank you. For clarity sake, Hon. Washiali had proposed to have the “Institute” and the Committee had proposed a “Council”. Sorry for that.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, it should be the “Institute”.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman (Hon. Christopher Omulele): Therefore, the Committee will withdraw their amendment, so that we move with your amendment. That will be neat. Chair.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, we agreed to amend Clause 23 as proposed by Hon. Washiali.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 23–

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, my amendment was in Clause 23 (2) .

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: It is the same thing. It has the same effect.

Fine.

Clause 24

THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 24-

Thank you Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I beg to move:

THAT, Clause 24 of the Bill be amended by deleting sub-clause (3) .

Yes, I have proposed by deleting sub- clause (3) as a whole.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. I beg to move:

THAT, the Bill be amended in clause 24-

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:

THAT, the Bill be amended in clause 25 by deleting subsection (3) and substituting therefor the following new subsection-

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:

THAT, the Bill be amended in clause 26–

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I just wanted to clarify with the Deputy Chairperson of the Committee on Finance and National Planning that he withdrew the clause that was to remove the examination body. Therefore, if he withdrew, he cannot now be correcting something that is already back in the Bill. Therefore, the examination body is not withdrawn.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: You are absolutely right Hon. Washiali. Hon. Deputy Chairman, you took it away and, therefore, you cannot have your cake and eat it.

Agreed, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. It is true we had removed that in Clause (2) .

Therefore, I drop the amendment.

Clause 27

I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended in clause 27 –

Clause 28

The Temporary Deputy Chairman (Hon. Christopher Omulele): Hon. Deputy Chairman.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:

THAT, the Bill be amended in clause 28 (1) -

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move:

THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 29 by deleting –

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I just wanted to mention generally that most of these deletions were meant to support the removal of the examination body.

For record purposes, I just wanted to point that we will look at this Bill again in detail or rather the Act; if it will be assented to, so that we can correct the omissions.

This is because, we are doing it on our feet and may not do it as effectively as we would have wished to, to know which clause is affecting what.

However, for purposes of record, I just want to point out that most of these deletions are based on the withdrawal or the removal of the examination body which, I am sure will affect the effectiveness of this Act. I support but with that understanding that when it has been done, then we will stand to amend the Bill.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: You are perfectly in order Hon. Washiali. You will have a chance even before the Bill is read the Third time to recommit. You may actually recommit. Therefore, once this is done, you can go through it and make up your mind on those parts that you wish to recommit for reconsideration of the plenary.

Clause 31

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Chair.

THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 31-

THAT. the Bill be amended in Clause 32-

Thank you Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman. Mine is not in conflict with what the Vice-Chair has moved.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move: THAT. Clause 32

(2)

of the Bill be amended in paragraph

(d)

by inserting the word “by” immediately after the word “appointed”. This is just a typographic error and cleaning up the Bill.

Clause 34

The Temporary Deputy Chairman (Hon. Christopher Omulele): Chair.

THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 34−

THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 35-

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 36. This amendment deletes provisions on appeal because the Bill should not legislate the procedure of the High Court.

(Question, that the words to be left

out be left out, put and agree to)

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: The Hon. Washiali, you note that yours now has no legs to stand on.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I wish to withdraw it now that we have adopted the decision.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Thank you. Let us proceed.

Clause 37

The Temporary Deputy Chairman (Hon. Christopher Omulele): Chair.

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 37. There already exist rules on the conduct of matters in the High Court and there is no need to legislate the same in the Bill.

(Question, that the words to be left

out be left out, put and agree to)

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: The Hon. Washiali, for the same reason, your falls.

Let us make progress.

Clause 39

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Chair, you have a proposal to this.

THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 39 –

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 40 and substituting therefor the following new section— Funds of the 40. The funds of the Institute shall consist of – Institute (a) monies payable to the Institute under this Act;

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 41. This amendment is a consequence of the removal of public funding under clause 40. Therefore, there is no need for a public audit.

(Question, that the words to be left

out be left out, put and agree to)

Clause 42

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Chair.

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 42. This is as a consequence of deleting Clauses 40 and 41. The reason is that we have removed public funding under clause 40 for private entities.

(Question of the amendment proposed) (Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agree to)

THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 43 in the marginal note by deleting the word “by an association”. This is in the marginal note for the reason that the reference of an association is in error.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Before I proceed, Hon. Washiali also has a proposal to it. It is not similar.

The amendments are similar. So, the one for the Chair can be carried.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: You have some other amendments that are not similar to the Chair’s.

Can I then just move? The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: No. Let me finish with the one for the Chair and then I will give you an opportunity because they are different. That is so that we clean it up properly.

Hon. Washiali, you may now move the others while dropping the one similar to the Chair’s.

I beg to move: THAT, clause 43 of the Bill be amended —

I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 44 by deleting the words “or Examinations Board”. This is to remove reference to the Examinations Board since the clauses establishing the Board have been deleted from the Bill.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Hon. Washiali, you may now have a go at it.

This is the confusion we are likely to experience because the Vice-Chair dropped the removal of the Examination Board. If you removed the description, I do not think it will be making sense and yet, the Examination Board is carried. So, I really wish the Vice-Chair removes or withdraws that amendment.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: You are right, Hon. Washiali. Hon. Vice-Chair, how do you want to deal with it?

I support Hon. Washiali’s amendment. The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Hon. Vice-Chair, you will have to drop yours because you have already taken it out.

I do. I support that Hon. Washiali’s opinion be carried.

I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended in Clause 45

(1)

by deleting the word “Council” and substituting therefor the word “Cabinet Secretary”. This is to provide for the CS who shall be making regulations in accordance with the Statutory Instruments Act.

(Question, that the word to be left out

be left out, put and agreed to)

Hon. Washiali, you also have something on this. You may move it.

I beg to move: THAT, Clause 45

(2)

of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new paragraphs immediately after paragraph

(a)

— “

(aa)

procedure and fees for registration of members of the Institute;

(ab)

a detailed scheme outlining procedures for qualification, issuing and revocation of practicing certificates under this Act;

(ac)

a detailed scheme or code of conduct and ethics specifying acts that amount to professional misconduct in addition to those specified under this Act.” This is just providing a way forward so that the Board can gazette its regulations.

New Clause 44A

I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after Clause 44-

Transitional provision 44A. (1) After the expiration of twelve months or such longer period as the Cabinet Secretary may declare, by notice in the Gazette after the commencement of this Act, that no person shall practise as an Insurance Professional unless he or she is a holder of a practising certificate that is in force.

I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended in the First Schedule in Item 2 by deleting-

THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting the Third Schedule. This in order for the Bill to be compliant and compatible with the withdrawal of Clause 2.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman (Hon. Christopher Omulele): Hon. Washiali.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I think it would have been better if we would know the contents of the Third Schedule. The Third Schedule is about the Examination Board which we have all agreed that it should be reinstated in the Bill. So, how do we delete the Third Schedule yet it is supposed to guide the Examination Board. It is important that we know what the Schedule contains.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Hon. Washiali, you may wish to recommit the Third Schedule. Look at it and if you are in tandem with the Chair, then there is the route for recommittal.

We had already agreed. It is just a mix up in presentation as we had agreed here that we do not need the Third Schedule because we have the Examination Board.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Hon. Washiali, let me help you. I had not yet put the global Question on this. If you are in agreement with the Chair, we can have a retake on it now so that we can retain it. The Chair can withdraw his proposal.

I will give you a minute to consult.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I drop that amendment and reinstate the Third Schedule.

Clause 2

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: There are amendments to this from both the Chair and Hon. Washiali.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I wish to withdraw all these amendments.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Very well. Hon. Washiali, you may move your amendment.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I want to thank the Vice Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning on the understanding that we have had throughout this Committee of the Whole House. I beg to move –

THAT, clause 2 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new definition in the proper alphabetical sequence— “professional prequalification” means a certificate in insurance studies that is issued by an institution approved or recognized by the Commission for University Education established under the Universities Act, 2012 or the Technical and Vocational Education and Training Authority established under the Technical and Vocational Education and

Training Act, 2013 which certificate shall be required by the Examinations Board as a requirement for candidates who apply to sit the insurance professional examinations;” We need this explanatory note to take care of colleges that have been training insurance professionals, so that they can take care of their businesses as they have done before. Later on, in terms of recognition of the professionals in the insurance sector, the institute will do it. The Examination Board that has been reinstated by this House will do it.

Thank you. (Question of the amendment proposed) (Question, that the words to be inserted be inserted, put and agreed to)

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to drop the long title.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: Very well. The proposal by the Chair to amend the Title stands dropped.

Hon. Washiali you also a proposed amendment to this.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move –

THAT, the heading of the long title of the Bill be amended by deleting the word

Do I have an amendment on Clause 1? I am lost. I do not know whether I have an amendment to Clause 1.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman (Hon. Christopher Omulele): Yes, you have an amendment to Clause 1. You may move it. It is on page 1722 of the Order Paper. It is to the same effect of registration.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move –

THAT, clause 1 of the Bill be amended by deleting the word “Registration”. This is for the same explanation that I made earlier on. That the Bill has more objects than just registration alone.

The Temporary Deputy Chairman

: That is quite in order.

Hon. Members, that will be it for the business listed as the Insurance Professionals Registration Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 25 of 2020) . We will now move to reporting progress. Let us have the Mover to report progress.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Chairman, I beg to move that the Committee doth report to the House its consideration of the Insurance Professionals Registration Bill (National Assembly Bill No.25 of 2020) and its approval thereof with amendments.

Hon. Members, at the start, we had stepped down the business listed as Order No.13 (iii) . Hon. Osoro has not made his way to the House yet and so, that business stands stepped down. That will be it for purposes of Order No.13.

in the Chair]

We shall now have reporting for all those matters that we have considered in Committee, starting with the Appropriation Bill (National Assembly Bill No.31 of 2022) . Let us have Hon. Amos Kimunya.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Appropriation Bill (National Assembly Bill No.31 of 2022) , and approved the same with amendments.

Let us have the Mover.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said report. I request Hon. Shinali to second the Motion for the Agreement with the Committee of the whole House.

Hon. Shinali.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I second.

Hon. Members, I direct that the next steps in this regard be undertaken when this matter will be set down on the Order Paper again.

We shall now consider the Higher Education Loans Board (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly No.37 of 2020) for reporting. Let us have the Chairperson.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Higher Education Loans Board (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly No.37 of 2020) , and approved the same with amendments.

Let us have the Mover.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said report. I request Hon. Shinali to second the Motion for the Agreement with the Committee of the whole House.

Hon. Shinali.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I second.

Hon. Members, I also direct that the next steps be undertaken when this matter will be set down on the Order Paper.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Information Communication Technology Practitioners Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 38 of 2020) and approved the same with amendments.

Let us have the Mover.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said report. I also request Hon. Shinali to second the Motion for the Agreement with the Committee of the whole House.

Hon. Shinali.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I second.

In the same regard, I direct that the next necessary steps be undertaken when business will be set down on the Order Paper next.

The next one is the Insurance Professionals Registration Bill (National Assembly Bill No.25 of 2020) . Let us have the Chairperson.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Insurance Professionals Registration Bill (National Assembly Bill No.25 of 2020) and approved the same with amendments.

Let us have the Mover.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House doth agree with the Committee in the said report. I also request Hon. Waihenya Ndirangu to second the Motion for the Agreement with the Committee of the whole House.

Chairperson, Hon. Ndirangu.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to second.

I direct that the next necessary steps be undertaken when the matter will be set down on the Order Paper next.

Next business.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the Kenya Revenue Authority (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.24 of 2022) be now read a Second Time.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, as Members would be aware, during the budget highlights, the Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Planning did indicate that there was a need to reenergise the Kenya Revenue Authority.

The Leader of the Majority Party, sorry to interrupt you. There is a report that needs to be tabled by the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Lands. Kindly let us allow her to do that, so that you can now move. Let us have the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Lands.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the House. Report of the Departmental Committee on Lands on its consideration of a public Petition No.71 of 2021 by the Board of Management and parents of Changamwe Primary School, Changamwe Secondary School and Changamwe Girls Secondary School regarding encroachment of school land.

Exit Report of the Departmental Committee on Lands for the 12th Parliament, 2017 to 2022. Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker.

The Leader of the Majority Party, now you may take up the matter.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. As I was indicating, this Bill is very straightforward. It basically seeks to change the name of the Kenya Revenue Authority to the Kenya Revenue Service (KRS) . This is to emphasise the core objective of the revenue body, which is to provide a service of collecting revenue and facilitating the taxpayers to make their fair contribution in taxes to the development of this country.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, it is also born out of the fact that the name “Authority” seems to have this commandeering effect. That is why the Kenya Revenue Authority has become unpopular in some quarters, as much as they have been trying to be very friendly. They keep advertising for taxpayers’ workshops to train various people. They have rebranded themselves, but there is still that notion that they are an Authority which is feared, and yet it is supposed to work

in partnership with the taxpayers. The Bill is basically meant to change that name wherever it appears within the current laws, like within anti-counterfeit, gaming, Income Tax and air passenger. All the laws that have KRA as a player will now be changed to reflect this new thinking of having it as a service.

The Bill also seeks to clean up some references to ‘minister’ and ‘permanent secretary’ that have not been cleaned up yet, and to convert them to the current nomenclature of cabinet secretary and principal secretary respectively.

I really do not want to get into a lot of details in terms of what the KRA does. We all know it. It has been quite successful in boosting the revenues of this country. We hope that when we change the name, they will become much more friendly and accessible. People who fear them will not have that feeling that they are dealing with an Authority that can take all their assets and money, but one that can facilitate them. I know that Hon. Members have been affected by this. As we are considering this Bill, I would like to ask the people at the KRA to serve Members of Parliament well. I do not know how many of you have gone for your tax compliance certificates and received them at the first instance. There is always an issue. There is an issue of reconciliation between Parliament and KRA, because the two systems do not work together. As we support them to change into a service, I want them to start thinking of integrating their systems. When we pay taxes through our payroll here in Parliament, it should be reflected simultaneously in the KRA.

The Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS) and the KRA systems do not also agree. If any Member of Parliament or public servant goes for his tax clearance certificate on the first or second day of the next month, he should receive it without being told to go and bring some stamped P9 Forms from Parliament, so that they can see that the money was deducted and paid. The two systems should work together. I want to appeal to the KRA that as we change them, let them also do some of those basic things so that people are not delayed unnecessarily. This happened the other day to a Member whom we appointed as an ambassador or one of the commissioners of the EACC. He was told that he was not tax compliant just because of the same issues. I would like to ask them to address it.

Like I said, this Bill is straightforward. We are only changing the name of the KRA, and some of those bits and pieces in terms of where there is reference to a minister to change it to cabinet secretary or permanent secretary to make it principal secretary. I do not want to belabour the point and keep talking about the obvious.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to move and ask the Vice-Chair of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning to second.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker (Hon. Christopher Omulele): Hon. Waihenya.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I beg to second the Second Reading of the KRA (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.24 of 2022) . As indicated by the Leader of the Majority Party, it is true that this is a very short Bill. Its essence is just changing the name to the Kenya Revenue Service, so that it sounds friendly.

I wish to congratulate the KRA and in particular the Commissioner General, Dr. Githii Mburu, and his team of Commissioners and officers. For the last 10 years, revenues which are collected by the KRA have grown from Kshs800 billion to close to Kshs1.8 trillion to date. The growth in revenues and their investment in Information and Communications Technology (ICT) is phenomenal. A lot of bad things have been said about the KRA by people who have been trying to evade taxes. It is important that we support the KRA because it is the one that lays the golden egg. If the KRA was not doing a good job, we would not read all these huge budgets.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I beg to second the Bill so that we can rename KRA to the Kenya Revenue Service. Thank you.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on the KRA (Amendment) Bill, 2022. The KRA has a huge task of collecting revenue and making sure that the Government is running. We have to collect revenue that will be used for development and recurrent expenditure for the country.

The KRA has improved a lot, because it has been a while since we hit our revenue collection targets. It has improved for the past two financial years. It has proved to us that it is important to facilitate them by giving them more resources and making them work better. I support that the KRA Act be amended and give it a friendly title for Kenyans to be relaxed when they are paying their taxes. We will also make sure that the Executive executes their mandate so that we can get services.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I will go to the Bill. We are giving the Board authority to delegate duties to the Commissioner-General, so that he can allocate duties to officers and departments that he feels will perform them in a better way and generate or collect more revenue for our country. Finally, on the appointment of officers in different departments, the Bill also gives the Commissioner-General the authority to determine their payment in terms of salaries and working conditions.

As I conclude, we have seen revenue collection going up every year. I just want to urge the Kenya Revenue Authority to double their efforts in collecting revenue. They need to use modern ways of engaging the taxpayers, ensure they update their skills and are not slapping bills to the taxpayers who are not supposed to be slapped with such bills. I urge the KRA that now that this House is debating how to name them, the approach when collecting revenue should be friendly to the taxpayer, so that he/she can appreciate and recognise why they have to pay taxes. In addition, they should invest more in training and cooperation with the taxpayer, so that it is easy to collect taxes and meet their intended revenue targets.

With that, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I support. The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: Hon. Kipyegon Ngeno, Member for Emurua Dikirr.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I also wish to weight in a little bit on this issue of changing the name of the Authority to Service. Someone once said that you can change the forest, but the monkeys will still remain the same. Even if we change the name of the monkeys from monkey to monkey whatever and they are still monkeys, they will remain monkeys. I am relating this one to the change of name. I wish to state clearly that I will support, even if the KRA will change into KRS, I will support only with one assurance from the Leader of the Majority Party, that let us not grapple with the...

The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: The Member for Emurua Dikirr, what are you saying? Did I hear KARES or KRS?

KRS, not KARES.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker (Hon. Christopher Omulele): Oh, very well. Proceed.

Instead of KRA, they will change to KRS.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I am supporting this Bill with the assurance of the Hon. Leader of the Majority Party that he is not just going to look at the change of name, but he should look at harnessing the functions of the KRA. You know what happens with these departments, the money we are relying on in this country, especially when doing budgets, is from collection of revenue. Many people are paying taxes in this country. People do many efforts to ensure that we have enough money to run the country. However, we are facing two problems here. One of them is the collection of the revenues by the people who are concerned with the collection of revenues. This is where I wanted the Leader of the Majority Party to take note, not necessarily the change of name.

For instance, we changed the Kenya Police Force to the Kenya Police Service. However, the police are still performing the duties they were performing before the name was changed. I want the Leader of the Majority Party to look into harnessing the process of collection of revenue. There are many people who are not paying taxes. Many businesses are not being taxed. No one is collecting revenues from them and in the process of collecting the revenues, most of the people working in the particular departments are extremely corrupt such that when they collect revenue, they have two sets of receipts. One is an official receipt which ends up at the office, and of course, they release the money collected. However, there is another set which remains with them after the collection, and that is where we are losing millions of money.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, we have in our county an area where county governments rely on collecting revenues to run the county, for example, the Maasai Mara. Before the introduction of electronic system of revenue collection, there were two sets of receipts where people collect money from morning to afternoon, and from afternoon to evening, they use another set of receipts. These other sets of receipts belong to certain individuals who used to enrich themselves until the introduction of electronic system.

Even when the electronic system was introduced, we still have the same problem because at some point, we are told that the electronic machines are not working or that there is a collapse of the electronic machines. Therefore, they resort to manual collection. This is exactly what is happening with this Authority.

Therefore, I wish to inform the Leader of the Majority Party that we will support him to change the name, but he should bring changes to the way the Authority has been collecting revenue. If we are assured that it is going to be collected electronically, obviously, we will have a way of auditing the collections which have been made and, of course, the Government will not be losing millions of money through the collection.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the Leader of the Majority Party should also look at the wastage of the revenue collected. We could collect as much as possible from Kenyans, but how do we spend the money that is collected? That is where we have a problem because corruption in the country is not through direct stealing of funds, but wastage and undue ways of spending the revenues collected. We know people sweat and toil. They do businesses day and night just to put food on the table, and the Government comes and over taxes them. Well, we will not mind being over taxed, but we mind proper expenditure of the money that is collected by the Government.

Therefore, I support and tell the Leader of the Majority Party to look at how we can change the process, the means and the methods used in collecting revenue by the Authority.

I support. The Temporary Deputy Speaker (Hon. Christopher Omulele): Hon. Oyula Maero, Member for Butula.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I also want to take this opportunity to contribute to the KRA (Amendment) Bill that is geared towards changing the name from KRA to KRS. While I support the change, I would not agree with the idea of giving the Commissioner-General more powers from the Board, because that will amount to almost creating a dictatorial Authority or Service. The Board should maintain its position of controlling the services of the Kenya Revenue Authority.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, the other thing I want to mention here is that in the old Act, the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) staff were given a commission of 2 per cent for any revenue collected above the budgeted amount. I am sure that used to create a lot of enthusiasm among the staff because they knew that if they worked very hard, they would get commission at the end of the year. That should be looked into so that they are encouraged to work hard and avoid corruption. If they do not consider that commission, the staff will continue looking for what they can do to make money for themselves. The KRA junior staff also need to be motivated. They do a lot of work but all the consideration goes to the bosses. That leaves a loophole for them to look for their own money. To reduce corruption in KRA, we also need to look for a way to motivate the junior staff and recognise them for the work they do. This recognition came about when they were getting a commission at the end of the year for any revenue collected above the targeted amount. I want that to be looked into so that the staff can be motivated and encouraged to work specifically for the development of this country.

With those remarks, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, I support the change of name. Thank you.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: The Hon. Nyenze, Member for Kitui West.

Thank you Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for giving me this opportunity. At the outset, I support the amendment to the KRA Act of changing its name from, “Authority” to “Services”: Kenya Revenue Authority to Kenya Revenue Services.

The KRA is an agency that is tasked with collection of revenue for the Government. It is also responsible for the assessment, collection and accounting for all the revenue they collect for the Government. They want to be friendly to the taxpayer by changing their name. I congratulate them because over the years they have increased revenue collection. This is very important because that funds the Government. If the KRA continues to increase the revenue, it will reach a point where we will reduce the amount of Government debt.

I support the amendment but note that they can broaden the tax bracket by being friendly especially by educating the tax payers and also ensuring that they help in improvement of businesses. As KRA collects revenue, of late, I have noticed some of the small businesses have closed. That means that revenue reduces as the businesses close. As I support the change of name to be more friendly, they should educate taxpayers, especially the small businesses, on how to improve their businesses so that as they go to collect revenue from them, the business would be strong enough and grow and revenue grows instead of closing. Most of the small businesses close down because of taxation from KRA, especially on Excise Duty. They should also take responsibility of cooperating with business owners and ensure that they do not close down but grow.

They should also embrace IT systems in their operations especially in collection of revenue. We know that especially in county governments, revenue is collected manually. If KRA can be involved in collection of county governments’ revenue, which they would do so electronically, I am sure that county governments would benefit a lot from their own revenue. This would also ensure that instead of the national Government giving county governments so much money, they could also benefit from their own revenue.

As my colleague said, they should motivate their staff. KRA employs so many people but many of them are on contract. Such staff serve on contract for a very long time. They are involved in collection of a lot of money but they get very little pay, which can tempt them to become corrupt because they are not well motivated. The KRA should motivate their staff and not keep them under contract for a very long time. Let them employ them and remunerate them in the right way.

I support the change of name from “Authority” to “Services”. They should improve their services.

Thank you. The Temporary Deputy Speaker (Hon. Christopher Omulele): Hon. Washiali Jomo, Member for Mumias East.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. Allow me to join my colleagues in supporting the change of name. This should have been done earlier because I remember when we were changing them from the defunct Customs Department to customs services and domestic taxes, that should have been the right time when this should have followed so that we change the meaning. With the new Constitution, many of the authoritarian titles have been reduced. That is why I support this.

Like the other Members have pointed out, it is not enough to change the name. We must change the title but at the same time change the manner in which they approach businesses. In an authority it is an authoritarian kind of approach but with a service, they must listen to their clients who are majorly taxpayers. I was listening to political news the other day where politicians were complaining that the Nairobi City Council used to collect more revenue in service charge taxes than today when we have the KRA. I did not understand how that would have happened when we expect that KRA should do much better than the Council. I am sure that with the change of name and change of attitude, the manner in which they handled the Keroche Industries where they forced a closure would have been different.

As we agree with the Commissioner-General to change the name from “Authority” to “Services”, we request him to retrain his staff so that they change from the manner in which they approach tax collection.

I support. The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: Hon. Baya Yaa, Member for Kilifi North.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. First, I support the amendment of changing the name of this organisation from Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) to Kenya Revenue Services (KRS) .

When you are changing a name from an authority to a service, there is something fundamental that you are doing. You are also saying we are changing the theory of management of that entity. We are also changing the way the entity is managed. It is not just rebranding. If you look at that Bill, it is very heavy. We are removing “authority” because it connotes a commandeering body, substituting therefor with a friendly and service oriented word. The change of name does not change the way operations are done, unless there is a deliberate policy shift from

authority to service. That policy shift is very important. Douglas Mcgregor, the guy who developed Theory X and Y of management, said there is a way in which you manage people and you achieve certain results using the theory of management—whether you coerce, push, punish or cajole them until you get the results from a negative perspective. There is the Y part that says you can talk to the people well, motivate them and receive or achieve better results. That is what Douglas Mcgregor says.

What we have seen of the current KRA is that they are very punitive. They are always pushing people. They want to achieve results by force. What that has done is that a negative has been their result. People are shunning away from paying taxes. People are closing businesses. People are evading tax because this is a rogue guy following up money you have made yourself. Change of name alone will not make KRA a better institution. They need to change the theory of management and mindset on how they manage the institution. There is a correlation between the huge public debts we are incurring and the way KRA is being managed. If KRA does not collect enough resources, it means we have to borrow more to bridge the gap. If KRA is not managed properly to collect taxes very well and ensure we have enough money, the reverse is the result. Because we have a gap in revenue, this country will continue to borrow externally and internally to bridge that gap if KRS as we want to name it today does not collect that money.

In a nutshell, KRA needs to change not only the name but also operations. I will give you a very interesting incident. I have very many and nice beach hotels in my constituency but the investor who has invested a lot of his money tells you I will close down and take away my investment to another place because KRA is not giving me breathing space. Several hotels have been closed down. What happens are two things. If they close down, one, the Government loses on the revenue that could have emanated from the proprietor. What also happens is that every staff who was working there, 2000 staff who were working in that organisation, also lose their salaries and, therefore, this Government does not get the taxes these employees would have paid. Therefore, KRA has a double loss—they lose excise duty and other taxes, but also lose income tax from the people who were working in the institutions. That is the sad story.

I am saying that there is a correlation between debt rise in this country and the performance of KRA. If we are giving them change, a new name, a new brand, and a new lease of life, we also would like to see them work better in ensuring that they have a good relationship with business people and companies. That good relationship can shore up the revenue they are trying to collect.

I will give you an incident of one of my friends who is an investor in Watamu. He has been a very faithful tax payer, for many years. One day, the records were not done properly. This guy arrives at the airport from Italy and when he is in Mombasa, there are people and askaris from KRA waiting for him. They arrested him, for the first time, and told him “you are a tax evader and you know you have not paid taxes for this much.” They put handcuffs on him and took him to court. When they checked the records, the problem was not that he did not pay taxes. It was that filing had not been done on time. This guy promised me: “Owen, I am closing down. I am selling and moving out of this country.” That is exactly what he did.

What I would like to say, as we move forward to changing the name and make KRA the KRS, let them also change the management of how they do their jobs so that we can collect enough taxes. If they collect enough taxes, we will reduce public debt. Like Kibaki said, we want to be self-reliant. I think we used to have the slogan “Kulipa Ushuru ni Kujitegemea”. Let Kenyans get the spirit that they are paying taxes ili waendelee kujitegemea.

I thank you and support.

The Temporary Deputy Speaker (Hon. Christopher Omulele): Hon. Mwalyo Mbithi, Member for Masinga.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, for giving me an opportunity to air my views on the change of the name of KRA to KRS.

This is a good idea. This is because, after some time or years, the institutions normally rebrand themselves to do some innovations and attract customers. For this institution, this is a service they render to Kenyans. The service is to collect revenue from the incomes that companies make and the VAT’s and so forth. Therefore, they need to appeal to their customers who are the tax payers so that they can attract them and be more friendly. This is a service they render to us simply because whatever they collect is what we develop our country with. It is what makes the country to continue servicing the Budget. This is a good idea, to do the changes by way of rebranding to KRS.

The people there also need to rebrand themselves. Even if they change the logos to be attractive and show they are working for Kenyans, they are working for the wellbeing of this country so that they can be appealing to each one of us. The KRA is friendly nowadays. Although they have tightened the noose, they have become stricter, even when you are late with a few shillings, they even send you an email. Even if you are late with Kshs50 or Kshs100, they remind you have not paid taxes for Kshs1,000. That is efficient. What they need is to collect more for them to be more efficient. Many of the Members have mentioned that the junior staff need to be motivated because they work more than the bosses. The bosses only delegate. These junior officers are the ones who go to institutions to discuss how these institutions can pay their taxes even in installments.

Sometimes Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) revokes tax compliance certificates of companies such that the companies are not able to trade or bid for tenders for contractors. The act of revoking tax compliance certificates from customers means that they cannot collect taxes from the same companies for them to earn more revenue to Kenyans. So, they need to be friendlier even as we change their name to ‘Services’. Their services should be seen to work for Kenyans. This will woo Kenyans to support the Kenya Revenue Services (KRS) as they will be paying taxes for their own good.

With those few remarks, I support. The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: Finally, let us have Hon. Oundo as the Mover prepares to reply.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker for this opportunity to contribute to the amendment Bill on the Floor of this House today.

Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker, payment of taxes is a responsibility of every citizen in any jurisdiction or any country. That is why all governments have a body mandated with collecting and disbursing of collected taxes. KRA is proposing to change from KRA to KRS. This is indeed what we call changing the forest but the monkeys remain the same. We just hope and pray that the monkeys do not remain the same as they change the forest.

We have the responsibility to pay the taxes. Indeed, KRA needs to change its mindset, from an authoritarian organ to one that serves the people of Kenya.

With those few remarks, I support the Bill. The Temporary Deputy Speaker

: Hon. Majority Leader, you may now reply.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Deputy Speaker. I am happy that so many Members have contributed to this Bill. It looks so simplistic that we are just

changing a name but obviously, as Members have expressed, the change of name is one thing and it needs to be accompanied by change of attitude and the change of doing things. I totally agree with the Members and I am sure that KRA has heard.

I forgot to say this, I know you like some of these stories. Some years, back, this story was told to us around 1990 in the United Kingdom (UK). It was to express why the tax man will never let you walk scot free and they will use all manner of ways … It happened that, as you know, income from illegal activities cannot be taxed. There is this chap who was making a lot of money and the tax officers went to him and said that they had noticed that he made a lot of money without a declaration. He said: “I want to be honest with you. My money comes from illegal activities which you are not entitled to. If I make a declaration you are going to report me to other authorities.” Even in Kenya, tax declarations cannot be shared to other agencies. The tax man then told him: “Since I need my portion, let us agree on how we describe your business.” The guy was a burglar and they agreed that he names his occupation as a ‘freelance furniture remover.’ He would then pay a percentage of whatever he would make from moving furniture from one house and reselling to another. You can pay tax on it. So that is basically how the taxman can be very innovative. I am sure we would want KRA or KRS to have the same innovative ways of getting all the incomes from the different people. The more income we have, as Hon. Baya has reminded us, the more we are able to rely on ourselves and sort out the growth of this country.

So, without having to repeat myself again and again, I am very happy that we have worked out the framework for the rebranding of the KRA to the Kenya Revenue Service and I would want to see the Service taking root immediately so that the Kenyan people can enjoy making their contribution to nation building. I do not like looking at it as paying taxes but it is making their humble contribution to the building of this nation.

With those remarks, I beg to reply.

Very well done, Leader of the Majority Party. That is a job that is completed. I will direct that the next necessary steps with regard to that particular business be undertaken when the matter will be set down on the Order Paper again.

However, I must say that this has been a very fruitful morning. We have been able to transact quite a bit of business today. I am grateful to those Members who have taken their time to just be present and to prosecute the business that we have prosecuted. This also being that time when we are likely to close business tomorrow, if I do not sit again, I want to wish all the membership a good ride in the coming elections and hope that all of us will find our way back here to continue doing what we do best. I wish you the best of luck if I do not have an opportunity to sit again. It has been quite nice serving you and you have been kind to me when I have been in this seat. May God bless you all. For the convenience of the House, I direct that we call it a wrap on this particular morning session.

Hon. Members, the time being 12.57 p.m., the House stands adjourned until 2.30 p.m.

The House rose at 12.57 p.m.