Karungo Paul Thangwa

Sen. Thang’wa Senior Counsel, Mr. Katwa Kigen. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen) : May we request for equal time for cross-examination?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, on humanitarian ground, it is very sad and emotional that my dad is against the reality and the truth. He is colluding with somebody who took my money. He is calling for a refund instead of what we call facilitation. It is not a good feeling...

March 13, 2024 SENATE DEBATES 60

Sen. Thang’wa

Sen. Thang’wa Counsel Kigen, please, proceed. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Katwa Kigen) : My colleague, Mr. Ochoki, will do the cross-examination. The Counsel for the Deputy Governor (Mr. Wilkins Ochoki) : Thank you, for the opportunity, Madam Temporary Speaker. Hon. Karen, I would like to clarify a...

Sen. Thang’wa How long is he going to take? The Counsel for the County Assembly (Mr. Elias Mutuma) : Madam Temporary Speaker, at most 20 minutes.

Sen. Thangw’a Madam Temporary Speaker, I believe so because I think my brother became what he is because of the powers he is enjoying and misusing. He ended up misusing the powers and abusing his office. If he comes home, I believe he will change.

Sen. Thangw’a

Sen. Thangw’a

Sen. Thangw’a

Sen. Thangw’a

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, the justification is to remove institutional housing projects from entities that will benefit from affordable housing. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (

Sen. Thangw’a Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move- THAT Clause 9 of the Bill be amended –

Sen. Thangw’a Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move- THAT Clause 10 of the Bill be amended- Sen. Thangw’a Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move- THAT Clause 11 be amended March 12, 2024 SENATE DEBATES 23

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move- THAT Clause 10 of the Bill be amended—

Division will be at the end. There is a further amendment to Clause 10 by the Chairperson of the Standing Committee or Roads, Transportation and Housing. Sen. Thangw’a Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move- THAT Clause 10 of the Bill be amended-

Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move- THAT Clause 11 be amended Sen. Thangw’a Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move- THAT Clause 11 (4) of the Bill be amended— Sen. Thangw’a Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I beg to move- THAT Clause 12 of the Bill be amended...

Sen. Thang’wa

Sen. Thang’wa Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, I had moved an amendment that was doing away with institutional housing. However, the amendment by Sen. Abass is retaining institutional housing, which I proposed to be deleted. I want your directions.

Sen. Thang’wa Division at the end. Clause 33 The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Abdul Haji) : Proceed, Chairperson Standing Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing.

Sen. Thang’wa Mr. Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move– THAT the Bill be amended by deleting clause 35 and substituting therefor the following new clause — Agreement with private institutions and persons. Sen. Thang’wa Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir. I beg to move- THAT Clause 35 of the Bill be amended...

Sen. Thang’wa Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, having compared notes, we found that these things are the same for the Chairperson and myself. Therefore, I drop mine. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Abdul Haji) : Sen. Abass, say that you withdraw yours. March 12, 2024 SENATE DEBATES 30 Sen. Thang’wa (Question of...

Sen. Thang’wa Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I think there was confusion. Clause 39 is withdrawn. (Proposed amendment to Clause 39 by Sen. Abass withdrawn) Clause 40

Sen. Thang’wa

Sen. Thang’wa

Sen. Thang’wa

Sen. Thang’wa Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, the issue that I have with this clause is that it goes contrary to the High Court’s decision. The Court decision says that you cannot collect any taxes before you have a legal framework in place. You can only collect the tax once the...

Sen. Thang’wa

Sen. Thang'wa Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move- THAT Clause 49 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by inserting the word “before” after the word “immediately”. This amendment seeks to ensure greater clarity by inserting the word “before” after the word “immediately” (Question of the amendment...

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, having compared notes, we found that these things are the same for the Chairperson and myself. Therefore, I drop mine. The Temporary Chairperson (

Sen. Thang'wa

Sen. Thang'wa

Sen. Thang'wa

Sen. Thang'waRemuneration of the County Committee members. 31D. The Chairperson and the members of the County Committee shall be paid such sitting allowances or other remuneration for expenses as recommended by the Salaries and Remuneration Commission.

Sen. Thang'wa

Sen. Thang'wa

Sen. Thang'wa

Sen. Thang'wahas been proposed to be part of a Bill. However, you are moving too fast. Even when we want to make any comment following your proposal, it becomes difficult to catch up, particularly, on Clause 42B. I wanted to comment on your proposal just before you put the Question....

Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I think you have omitted two of my amendments; that is Clause 37 (a) and Clause 42 (a) . The Temporary Chairperson (

Sen. Abass, those are new clauses. We will come back to them. Clause 45 Sen. Thang'wa Mr. Temporary Chairperson, Sir, I beg to move- THAT Clause 45 of the Bill be amended in sub-clause (1) by deleting the words “he is” appearing in paragraph (b) (i) and substituting therefor the...

Sen. Thang'wa

Sen. Thang'wa(Loud consultations) Sen. Thang'wa Thank you, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, for protecting me. I take great exception to Sen. M. Kajwang's conduct. If it were another Senator, I would have assumed that probably he did not know the traditions of this House and what we do in Third Reading...

Sen. Thang’wa

Sen. Thang’waThe Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Abdul Haji): Sen. Abass, address the Chair.

Sen. Thangwa

Sen. Thangwa Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, just before I comment on this, I want to talk about my 10 years’ experience now that we talked about traditions in the National Assembly. On a matter which generates a lot of interest like this particular one, the Chairman will ordinarily allow as...

Division will be at the end New Clause 31 CThe Temporary Chairperson (

Sen. Thang’wa On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Abdul Haji) : Sen. Sifuna, what is your intervention? Sen. Thang’wa Mr. Temporary Chairman, Sir, you should ordinarily allow us to make points of order. (Loud consultations)(Loud consultations) Remuneration of the County Committee members. 31D....

Sen. Thangw’a

Sen. Thangw’a

Sen. Thangwa

Sen. Thangwa

Sen. Thang’wa

Sen. Thang’wa

Sen. Thangw’a Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I beg to lay the following paper on the Table of the Senate today, 7th March, 2024 – March 7, 2024 SENATE DEBATES 36 Sen. Thangw’aReport on the Standing Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing on the consideration of the Affordable Housing Bill...

Sen. Thang’wa Order, Sen. Sifuna and the Senate Majority Leader. (Sen. Sifuna spoke off record)

Sen. Thang’wa

Sen. Thang’wa

Sen. Thang’wa This was so that affordable houses could be built. I do not see why a house should be demolished, so that affordable houses are built. These people suffered so much working to earn money to build their homes, only for them to be demolished. One of the people...

Sen. Thang’wa Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do my research very well. I have the report of the Committee. It is the same Sen. Osotsi who misled this House that these reports were not signed. I have seen the signatures. Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you must vet some of these...

Sen. Thang’wa Madam Temporary Speaker, I stand to second that the Affordable Housing (National Assembly Bills No.75 of 2023) be read a Second Time. I am the Chairperson of the Committee on Roads, Transport and Housing. We took time together with the Members of the Committee and scrutinized this Bill....

Sen. Thang’wa Mr. Speaker, Sir, my good friend is lost. The report we are supposed to be discussing is about the remittance of pension by county governments to pension schemes. The counties owe the pension entities. He is talking about water companies. (Sen. Cherarkey spoke off record)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity. I also want to support this Report by the watchdog Committee led by the Senator of Vihiga County, Sen. Osotsi. I have been going through various surveys. One of the damning surveys I came across was by an international financial service provider...

Hon. Senator, can you abandon that line of contribution, please? You cannot impute improper motives on your colleagues. Kindly, abandon that line of debate. Proceed. Sen. Thang’wa Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I feel frustrated when I am standing here as a Senator of the great County of Kiambu, where...

Sen. Thang’wa Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I feel frustrated when I am standing here as a Senator of the great County of Kiambu, where I am supposed to fight for my people, but when I try to do my oversight role, I feel that there are some other things...

Sen. Thang’wa

Sen. Thang’wa

Sen. Thang’wa

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise under Standing Order No.112 for purposes of maintenance of order in the House. Could you please clarify how the money that is now being paid as a fine by governors who have been penalized by committees will be appropriated?

Sen. Thang’wa Sen. Mumma. What clarification are you seeking, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale? February 22, 2024 SENATE DEBATES 26 Sen. Thang’wa Therefore, any governor who thinks that they cannot appear before the Senate should be reminded every morning and afternoon that this Senate is not what they left behind. We have...

Sen. Thang’wa

The Senate Majority Leader.

That is true. I was speaking to the Kshs500,000 which has already been paid by the Governor of Nairobi City. The people of Kakamega would like to know how that money will be utilised now that it is in the Senate. You could use that opportunity, Mr. Speaker, Sir, to...

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, is that your contribution because that is an intervention to the Bill? Those are the things Senators should speak to. It is not up to me. I am your referee here. I cannot direct how this Bill will be crafted and how this fine will be appropriated...

Proceed, Sen. Methu.

Sen. Thang’wa, the Senator for Nyandarua County wishes to inform you. Sen. Thang’wa I wish to be informed.

Sen. Thang’wa Sen. Thang’wa, the Senator for Nyandarua County wishes to inform you. February 22, 2024 SENATE DEBATES 24 Sen. Thang’wa investments in the counties. The Standing Committees are also allowed to invite governors and ask them questions on the running of county affairs.Some governors are unable to honour such...

Sen. Mumma. What clarification are you seeking, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

Sen. Thang’wa Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I am well informed and for sure, the Senate Majority Leader is right. I was misguided by the headline that was talking about the audit of the 2022, Presidential Election. However, when you go to the recommendation, it is for sure...

Sen. Thang’wa Mr. Speaker, Sir, he is my counterpart in the highest number of votes garnered in this House, so I allow him.

Sen. Thang’wa Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity, to comment on this National Dialogue Committee (NADCO) report. Mr. Speaker, Sir, having gone through the Report, I have a few questions because the Report by itself is not conclusive. It has left gaps in the...

Sen. Thang’wa Anytime Mr. Speaker, Sir, from my Majority Leader. (Laughter)

Sen. Thang’wa Thank you very much, Madam Temporary Speaker. I also rise to give my condolences to the family of Kelvin Kiptum, especially his father, Mr. Cheruiyot, who you could see the pain when he said his only son is gone. However, as we speak, when I hear that maybe...

Sen. Thang’wa Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources regarding the rising fatalities resulting from hyena attacks in Witeithie Ward in Juja Sub-county, Kiambu County. In the Statement, the Committee...

I want to call upon Members of this House to always be - when reports of various counties are brought to adoption to look at it, debate and give suggestions on how we can improve the work of the County Public Accounts Committee (CPAC).With those very many remarks, allow me...

been informed that it has been established by the Intergovernmental Budget and Economic Council (IBEC), to validate assets and liabilities inherited from the defunct local authorities. IBEC is expected to report back between January and March, 2024. When the report is ready, we shall bring it.Madam Temporary Speaker, the Senate,...

the Machakos County Assembly running into billions of shillings contracted to lawyers and their firms as legal fees.The Committee has observed that some county entities are deliberately not utilising the offices of the County Attorney, which yours truly was instrumental in passing in the last session. They like outsourcing legal...

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.56 (1) (b) to make a Statement on the activities of the County Public Accounts Committee for the period commencing 1st July, 2023 to 30th November, 2023. During our deliberation, we noticed that there are challenges in filling in...

Sen. Thang’waFinally, Madam Temporary Speaker, the Committee held engagement talks with the ambassador of Japan, H.E. Okaniwa Ken. This was on a number of infrastructural development projects that the Government of Japan is financing through the Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA).The Committee also inspected a Japan-funded Community Road Empowerment (CORE)...

Chairperson, Select Committee on County Public Accounts. Sen. Cherarkey, you may proceed. ACTIVITIES OF THE COMMITTEE ON COUNTY PUBLIC ACCOUNTS

Sen. Thang’wa Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources regarding the rising fatalities resulting from hyena attacks in Witeithie Ward in Juja Sub-county, Kiambu County. In the Statement, the Committee...

I want to call upon Members of this House to always be - when reports of various counties are brought to adoption to look at it, debate and give suggestions on how we can improve the work of the County Public Accounts Committee (CPAC).With those very many remarks, allow me...

been informed that it has been established by the Intergovernmental Budget and Economic Council (IBEC), to validate assets and liabilities inherited from the defunct local authorities. IBEC is expected to report back between January and March, 2024. When the report is ready, we shall bring it.Madam Temporary Speaker, the Senate,...

the Machakos County Assembly running into billions of shillings contracted to lawyers and their firms as legal fees.The Committee has observed that some county entities are deliberately not utilising the offices of the County Attorney, which yours truly was instrumental in passing in the last session. They like outsourcing legal...

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.56 (1) (b) to make a Statement on the activities of the County Public Accounts Committee for the period commencing 1st July, 2023 to 30th November, 2023. During our deliberation, we noticed that there are challenges in filling in...

Sen. Thang’waFinally, Madam Temporary Speaker, the Committee held engagement talks with the ambassador of Japan, H.E. Okaniwa Ken. This was on a number of infrastructural development projects that the Government of Japan is financing through the Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA).The Committee also inspected a Japan-funded Community Road Empowerment (CORE)...

Chairperson, Select Committee on County Public Accounts. Sen. Cherarkey, you may proceed. ACTIVITIES OF THE COMMITTEE ON COUNTY PUBLIC ACCOUNTS