Tuesday 4th November, 2025

Clerk, do we have quorum?

Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes.

We now have quorum. Clerk, you may call the first Order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table of the Senate, today, Tuesday 4th November, 2025-

Report of the Auditor-General on financial statements of Machakos County Climate Change Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2025.

Report of the Auditor-General on financial statements of Trans Nzoia County Elimu Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2025.

Report of the Auditor-General on financial statements of Trans Nzoia County Youth and Women Development Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2025.

Report of the Auditor-General on financial statements of Trans Nzoia County Climate Change Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2025.

Report of the Auditor-General on financial statements of West Pokot County Climate Change Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2025.

Report of the Auditor-General on financial statements of Uasin Gishu County Inua Biashara Fund for the year ended 30th June, 2025.

I beg to lay.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the Senate, today, Tuesday 4th November, 2025-

Report of the proceedings of the High Level Political Forum (HLPF) of the Inter- Parliamentary Union (IPU) held in New York, Unites States of America (USA) on 22nd July, 2025.

I thank you.

Next Order.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to give notice of the following Motion- THAT the Senate notes the report of the proceedings of the High-Level Political Forum (HLPF) of the Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) held in New York, United States of America (USA) on 22nd July, 2025 laid on the table of the Senate on 4th November,

Proceed, Sen. Hamida Kibwana.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I beg to give notice of the following Motion-

THAT aware Article 42 of the Constitution guarantees every person the right to a clean and healthy environment, which includes access to safe energy options; FURTHER AWARE THAT, over 900 million Africans, including more than 90 per cent of households in Kenya’s rural areas, still rely on traditional biomass (firewood, charcoal,

animal waste) for cooking, resulting in high levels of indoor air pollution that cause premature deaths, particularly among women and children;

CONCERNED THAT, in Kenya, indoor air pollution has been linked to over 23,000 annual deaths, with women and girls bearing the disproportionate burden of time spent collecting firewood and cooking, limiting their education and economic opportunities;

NOTING THAT, traditional cooking methods contribute significantly to deforestation, greenhouse gas emissions and climate vulnerability at the county level, undermining national commitments under the Energy Act, 2019, the Climate Change Act, 2016 and Kenya’s Nationally Determined Contributions (NDCs);

RECALLING THAT, the Africa Clean Cooking Summit (Paris, 2023) mobilised USD2.2 billion in commitments for clean cooking and the International Energy Agency has recommended urgent financing and policy action to achieve universal access by 2040;

ACKNOWLEDGING, the efforts of some counties, development partners and private sector actors in piloting clean cooking projects, but recognising that these remain small-scale and fragmented;

NOW THEREFORE, the Senate resolves that-

Next Order.

Statements pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) . The hon. Senator for Taita Taveta County, Sen. Mwaruma. That Statement is dropped.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare on a matter of inter-county concern regarding the failure by Nolturesh Water and Sanitation Company Limited (NOLWASCO) to pay court-awarded compensation to 48 former employees.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, 48 former employees of Nolturesh Water Company limited have endured emotional and socioeconomic turmoil since 2018. They were dismissed by the company without notice, settlement of their salary arrears and remittance of statutory deductions dating back to 2017. The Employment and Labour Relations Courts, in a ruling delivered on 21st September, 2023, directed the company to pay the former employees a total consideration of Kshs157,331,253. This amount remains unpaid to date.

In the Statement, the Committee should address the following-

Next Order.

Clerk, do we have the requisite quorum?

I will proceed to put the question.

Now, hon. Senators, for the convenience of the House, pursuant to Standing Order No.45 (2) , I will rearrange today's Order Paper. We will move to Order No.16.

Clerk, proceed to call that Order.

short duration that they are offered and that the stipend offered to PSC interns is insufficient with an average stipend ranging from Kshs15,000 to Kshs30,000 per month which is not sustainable especially to interns living in major cities like Nairobi, Mombasa and Kisumu where the cost of living is too high;

NOW THEREFORE the Senate resolves that the Cabinet Secretary for Public Service and Human Capital Development, in consultation with the Public Service Commission, reviews the Guidelines to the Public Service Internship Programme of October, 2019 with a view to-

Hon. Senators, when debate was interrupted on 30th October, 2025, Sen. Methu had the Floor and had a balance of 12 minutes.

I notice he is not in the Chamber and, therefore, I will call the Senate Majority Leader to take the Floor.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you for the chance to comment on this Motion by Sen. Cherarkey. I am not sure if he would be very pleased with some of my comments, but I would rather hurry before he comes into the House. I have certain concerns regarding the drafting.

While I support what this Motion seeks to do, in broad perspective, I have concerns about item number one on the to-do list in terms of the resolution that this House is to pass. Sen. Cherarkey wants this House to resolve and propose to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Economic Planning, because that is where all this eventually ends; to request the National Assembly, which is a House that passes budgets, to increase the stipend offered to interns to cushion them against the high cost of living.

While at the very sight of it, it appears very noble, there is a serious concern in the country and there is a conversation that, as leaders, we must have devoid of emotions and appreciate where we are as a country. Have a hard look at the facts and see if the trend that currently obtains is sustainable.

I appreciate that Sen. Cherarkey has just walked in and this is his Motion. So, I will have a take on what I said earlier for the benefit of the Mover of the Motion. I agree with you, Sen. Cherarkey, in broad perspective regarding the quality of training environment that our interns have, because an internship offers a young student the opportunity to familiarise themselves with the work environment. However, I was quick to raise the fact that I do not agree with Resolution No.1, which is the desire to increase the stipend offered to interns and cushion them against the high cost of living. I have

expressed that we need to have a conversation in this country about the earnings of public workers, as we are facing a very difficult decision. Was it yesterday or earlier this morning that I saw the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Economic Planning in one of the news items?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is unfortunate that since our media Houses started competing with bloggers, it is very difficult to trust anything they post on serious issues, unless you hear the voice of a particular Cabinet Secretary to understand or put context into what they are saying. Broadly speaking, the Cabinet Secretary, Hon. Mbadi, reminded the country that we are currently spending close to Kshs90 billion every month on paying public workers across the country, from teachers to doctors to Members of Parliament (MPs), and all the people who earn from our taxes.

The cumulative bill for all the people that earn from our taxes, including doctors and we, Members of Parliament, is Kshs90 billion. The question that was being asked is whether that is sustainable in light of the amount of money that we collect, knowing fully well that last year, which is the best year in terms of revenue performance, we collected slightly above Kshs2.5 trillion. Out of Kshs2.5 trillion, nearly 40 per cent of that amount goes towards paying the salaries of public workers, who in my estimation are--- I do not know the figure; I need to get the numbers correctly.

This is a conversation that we shall soon be having because we are about to begin consideration of the Budget Policy Statement (BPS). If you compare the amount being spent, the people earning vis-a-vis those that are contributing, there is a serious discrepancy.

I gave the example a few weeks ago when I was moving a Bill in this House, that in my own county, when I did the county oversight conference, I demonstrated to the people of Kericho why it was not sustainable to have 4,000 workers, which is the total number of public servants earning close to 40 per cent of our shareable revenue in a county of one million people.

In as much as it is important to employ public servants, we must reduce expenditure and these are things that we have to tell each other. It may not sound popular, but even those that are being employed, should be concerned. This is because of what benefit will it be for you to carry a piece of paper saying it is unemployment, yet at the rate at which we are moving, very soon, we may not be able to afford salaries of public workers.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the rate at which our public wage bill is growing is unsustainable and that has been the case for the last decade plus, but nobody had the courage to confront these statistics and ask the people of Kenya that we perhaps relook and have a conversation about what our priority areas are.

Finances or economy has no emotion; it is plain facts and figures. This is what you have; this is what you need to do. Out of the things that you need to do, if the resources are not enough, you do what is called a priority list. It is no different from what you do in your household. You know the number of things that you need to do, but you prioritise and say: “I would wish to do this, but I know because I do not have the resources now, let me list a priority of the things that I need to do.”

Unfortunately, we have never had this conversation. I heard the Cabinet Secretary, Hon. John Mbadi, speak about it, I think yesterday. He said that, as a country, we must speak under full realisation. We need to move this conversation not just from counties. As a Senate, we have done a good job of highlighting how much is being spent by our counties on personnel compensation. We need to move this conversation also to the national Government because our scope cannot just be limited to what is happening in the counties. It also affects the shareable revenue. Part of the reason we cannot hit Kshs450 billion is because we are being told that we need to pay, I do not know how much, in terms of salaries.

Sen. Cherarkey, I agree with you that we must highlight the plight of our interns, ensure that they have a decent training environment and that they get the competence that is required in learning how to work in the Public Service Commission (PSC). While that is important, Resolution No.1 is in conflict with a very important national conversation that this country has been yearning to have for the last 10 years plus, but nobody had the courage to speak about it.

I must thank Cabinet Secretary Mbadi and register my appreciation to him, because since coming into office, he has pricked our conscience as a country to appreciate that there are certain decisions that we make as a country, which in the fullness of time, will ensure that---

Order, Hon Senators. May the Majority Leader be heard in silence?

Proceed, Majority Leader.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. The point I am making is that this is a timely conversation which we are having here as a Senate. I hope that the Cabinet Secretary can reveal to us, so that we appreciate. There is nothing wrong with this culture of talking to each other about what is available and what is not available.

The problem we have in this country is that we make conversations about taxes and revenue to be emotional. Many times, you hear people say that we need to employ more people, do this or that, without a conscious realisation of what will be the dynamo effect on the rest of the economy eventually. That is something which, we, as leaders, must learn to be honest with ourselves.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the unfortunate bit about it is that we are yet to realise that we need to prioritise the needs of the country in comparison to the resources that are available, so that we appreciate what we can afford or cannot afford at the moment as a country. I feel that is not something that we can postpone for too long given the harsh economic realities that we continue to face as a Republic in this day and age.

Look at a country such as the USA. The US Government has been on a shutdown for several weeks because people could not agree on a budget. This is because they know that you must operate within a certain fiscal frame, which if you burst, you are

endangering the sustainable standards of living in that particular country and burdening the future generations.

How did we get to the levels of debt that we have today? It was because of emotional decisions that were made at the spur of the moment; trying to appease certain sections of society, without realising that in the fullness of time, we would affect every corner of the Republic.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I agree that in terms of human capital development that is charged with the Public Service Commission (PSC), it is important that we ensure that we have skilled public workers who can offer services to citizens and be assured of the future generations. This will ensure that when you walk to a public office, you get competent and timely service.

While that is important, we need to have that conversation outside the scope of limiting it to only increment of stipend. I believe there are other things that we can do for our interns that will ensure sustainability beyond just increasing their stipend. We should do it in the full realisation of knowing how much is being gobbled up by public workers in this day and age.

Sen. Cherarkey, you may want to do more research on this particular topic that you want us to converse about, so that you guide us to appreciate the impact some of these decisions will have on the economy, even as we make them.

Nowadays, I have seen a trend, but I am not sure I want to wade into that conversation anyway because it is very alive. As I speak, I have messages about that particular topic on my phone that I do not want to get into at this particular time. However, we must be serious, as a country and as a leadership. The same way we are pushing counties to stick within the provisions of Regulation 25 of the Public Finance Management (PFM) Act, which is to keep personnel emoluments below 35 per cent, we must push the same at the national Government. We must have a capping.

These are some of the things that we talked about when we passed that Motion last year in June, 2024, after the protests. We must have the realisation that it is just not possible to satisfy everything at every time. That being the case, we must begin to ask ourselves about what we should prioritise at this point and what is it that we can pay. We must have a limit and say that beyond a certain limit, there is nothing that we can do. You just tell people that it is not possible. The issues of selling hope on matters finances is what has made our life very difficult.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, other countries are honest with each other. They are able to inform people the maximum number of people they can employ at a particular time and that they will have that conversation if things get better. Somehow someway, in this country, we always believe that it is possible to push the limit slightly beyond. That is what has messed us up and got us to this point where we are consuming Kshs90 billion every month.

In fact, that conversation is not complete. During my days in the Committee on Budget and Finance, we always asked why in this day of advanced technology, Artificial Intelligence (AI), and in this country where technological penetration is in levels higher than the rest of our peers in Sub-Saharan Africa, it is so difficult to establish the accurate number of public workers. I know for a fact because I read through our budgets.

Over the years, I think this is a project that the World Bank began with the National Treasury in 2005, but up to date, there is no legitimate way of checking. There are people within the structures of public service who resist any attempt to establish the accurate number of public workers. This will help us know the number of people who are consuming Kshs90 billion every month, that Cabinet Secretary Mbadi is telling us about. How many are teachers, Members of Parliament (MPs), doctors and how many work in the core civil service? We need to know, so that we can have a proper conversation that is informed by figures. This will help us know where we can trim; be honest with each other and decide on a sufficient a number to have.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, all we read and fight about is that we have a shortage of police officers and, therefore, we will be employing 10,000 this year. That conversation cannot be complete unless the National Treasury leads the country in having a conscious conversation about earnings in the public service. That will only happen if they are open with the figures. It is not enough for the Cabinet Secretary to just tell us it is Kshs90 billion. This Kshs90 billion is paying who and where?

I believe that until those figures are brought to fore, this conversation is not complete. Therefore, while I agree with what Sen. Cherarkey is proposing to us, I feel that for him to do proper justice to his Motion, he has to add the numbers that we are asking for.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, with those many remarks, I thank you.

Sen. Sifuna, proceed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first, I must apologise to my colleague, the Senator for Busia County; I know he is watching us from the USA. I was not able to take his statements that he had delegated to me. I am sure I will get an opportunity to do them tomorrow.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, first of all, I think the Motion is well intentioned. However, we have to have difficult conversations with the Senator for Nandi, the way the Senate Majority Leader was saying. When this Motion was brought, I have advisors on public service whom I sought their---

Sen. Cherarkey may have heard something else - is that even the stipend that is paid is not really a salary. I am told that it was fixed at around Kshs25,000.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not know where you went for your pupilage, but I went for my first pupillage at a law firm called Kairu & McCourt. Mr. McCourt, my pupil master, told me on the first day that the things that he will teach me at that law firm will be more than anything that I had learnt at the university. Those of you who went to pupillage under Mr. McCourt remember he had a favourite term for all pupils; the term was “idiot”. This was because according to him, the universities were delivering to him people who were not properly baked.

I will always appreciate everything that I learnt under Mr. McCourt. In 2005, he was good enough to be paying us a stipend of Kshs7,500, but the experience that we got was invaluable. At that particular point in time, he used to joke that we should pay school fees to the law firm. This is because we paid in the university, but he was doing more teaching than anything else. I remember it was very tough because surviving in Nairobi on such a stipend was very difficult. He used to make it even more painful that instead of just giving you the Kshs7,500 across the counter, he would write you a cheque. This made us feel like he just wanted to spite us some more because then, you had to wait for cheques to mature. I do not know if that happens anymore nowadays. The matter that has been brought by the Senator is on such amounts to survive.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is a yearning for young people to gain full employment. In my opinion, the problem is that we have failed to create enough opportunities for young people to work. People want to work. If you saw the sheer number of people who apply for jobs when an advertisement is put out, these are not lazy people who think they want to earn an easy living. They want to work for the country. It is for us, as a leadership, to create these opportunities for them. So, even when somebody lands an internship in the public service, they actually see it as a job and are always looking to see if they can be confirmed in those roles and to push the envelope as much as possible, because after you finish that internship, you go out there and there are no other opportunities for you. That is where the problem is.

In terms of the amount, however, these ones are doing a bit better than the Junior Secondary School (JSS) teachers, who are earning Kshs17,000 as a full-time salary. Surviving in this City on Kshs17,000 is almost a miracle. When I hosted the teachers for the Wild Teachers Day on the 5th October, they told us stories. That, first of all, as a man, there is no way you can bring your wife, if you are married, to Nairobi to stay with you under that Kshs17,000. The wife has to remain at home, upcountry, yet you know the strain that it puts on marriages when there is such a distance between the husband and wife.

It is impossible to find decent housing. I do not know what the global recommended amount of money or percentage of your salary that you should spend on accommodation, but at least 30 per cent should go to finding you accommodation. If you did 30 per cent of Kshs17,000, it is just slightly above Kshs5,000. Show me where in Nairobi, a teacher will find a decent place to stay for Kshs5,000? Some of these teachers are suffering in silence. If you speak to them, they will tell you even the rate of suicide is high.

What I would like to tell them, since I know they are watching, is that we want to help them. We want to help, but please, do not harass us. They distribute your number to all of their members and spam your phone. This behaviour started with the other union that we were trying to push for permanent and pensionable terms. I think it was the Universal Health Workers (UHC) workers. Instead, get organised like the other unions by, for instance, getting one of the leaders in the union or whoever it is, and have a sit- down. We are reasonable people. Have a conversation with us, and we will represent you.

The idea of spamming leaders from morning to evening--- You cannot read any other messages on your phone; it is just confirming Junior Secondary School (JSS) teachers to permanent and pensionable. I want to look at them in the eye and ask them, are you really helping yourselves by spamming the very people who you want to help you? This is an issue that I have interacted with for a very long time, and the truth is, it is very difficult to survive on Kshs17,000, let alone Kshs25,000, in this country or town.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, there is another factor for Sen. Cherarkey to consider. That, it is possible for the Public Service Commission to say they are going to enhance that stipend, like you have proposed in your Motion. However, the unintended consequence might be that there is a reduction in the number of opportunities that are offered to the young people for training. So, unless the National Assembly allocates more money towards this internship programme in the Public Service Commission, when you consider what the spirit of that programme was, it might be very difficult to enhance, without having a reduction in the number of people who are offered those opportunities.

Lastly, there is something to consider, that the Public Service Commission (PSC) is an independent commission. They are not subject to the direction of the Ministry of Labour and Social Protection. Sen. Cherarkey has said that when we pass this Motion, the view is to direct them to increase the stipend offered to interns, to cushion them against the high cost of living. I do not know how we are going to circumvent the fact that we are dealing with an independent commission. Perhaps, there could be another way of having this conversation with the PSC, because I am sure they are reasonable people, and especially if we are able to persuade them and the National Assembly, specifically, to increase the allocation towards this programme, so that we can have not only more young people joining the programme, but also living on a proper stipend.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is incumbent upon us, as a leadership and country, to create opportunities for young people. I do not think there is any other way. The reason I was late is because we had been invited to have a conversation with the Ambassadors of Germany and France, and they talked about the business environment that has been created in the country. That, they would want their companies from France and Germany, who would want to invest in this country, but you have to create a level playing field for all the companies in the world to be able to do business.

For instance, the motor vehicle assembly line said, the Bayerische Motoren Werke (BMW) assembly line in Stuttgart, does not care, as a plant, where it is in the world. You can plant it in the middle of Naivasha, but there are certain things you have to put in place. For instance, you must have proper infrastructure, affordable electricity and an environment that protects the business itself. They are willing to invest. As leaders, we

must look at the circumstances of doing business in the country, as well as the taxation regime that we put in place.

Additionally, as far as the dispute resolution mechanisms are concerned, one of the reasons you see many of these international contracts have clauses for arbitration or settlement of disputes through arbitration in foreign jurisdictions is because they have no faith in the Kenyan judicial system to resolve disputes, yet disputes are commonplace in business. It can be a dispute about anything.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, that is where the responsibility for leadership lies; that, we are able to look at all of these things to create a level playing field for all business people from across the world, and they will most definitely invest. We discussed about the regime that supports privately initiated proposals and private-public partnerships. The law is that we are required, as a country, to let the whole world know what the priority projects for which we are seeking partnership are. It should not be a secret like how we handle the airport. It was a terrible way to handle a project of that magnitude. Let the country and world know that we want a second or new runway at the Jomo Kenyatta International Airport (JKIA). Then, when you receive a proposal, because it is privately initiated, we know it will come to a specific person who has a responsibility to disclose.

I would like to thank the Cabinet Secretary for the National Treasury and Economic Planning, Hon. Mbadi, because after that debacle of Adani, I saw him publish in the newspapers some guidelines on how to handle those privately initiated proposals. Those are the conversations we want to have, because some of us are believers in the Constitution. If you look at Article 10, everything that is done in this country requires to follow those guidelines in Article 10, including transparency. Let us not wait to see on social media that the airport has been sold. No! That communication needs to come from the Government, saying we have received this proposal, we are looking at it, and this is what they are saying we should do. This will encourage investors to invest in our country and create the employment that is needed.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we had a delegation here in Parliament from the Germany’s Bundestag, last week. One of the problems that Germany is grappling with is immigration. Who is the source of that immigration problem? It is Africa. This is so because we have not created an environment for our young people to want to stay here. Ukiwa na njaa--- A hungry person will cross the ocean to look for food for their children. There is no way you can wake up every day and your child is looking at you and asking: “Daddy, today we have not eaten.” Some of us would go to the ends of the world for our children.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, the conversation we are having is even as Europe grapples with the question of immigration, the source of the problem is here. Can we create an environment in Africa, in our countries, that discourages people from going out? I do not know why anyone would be proud of being sent out there. Basically, you are piggybacking on efforts of other countries to create opportunities for their people, then you say we have sent 10,000 Kenyans there. How many of them are coming here to work in businesses that you have built? That is the question we need to ask. How many Kenyans have you provided opportunities for?

Mr. Speaker, Sir, although this was just to do with internship, there is a greater conversation on whether we are creating an environment that can absorb all the young people who tell us every day that they would want an opportunity to work. They do not want freebies, but they want to work. They also want to put into practice the things they went to school to learn, and that is our responsibility as leadership.

With those remarks, I support with the riders that I have given the hon. Senator for Nandi. I hope there can be a lasting solution to the problem of unemployment in Kenya.

Sen. Wamatinga.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this important debate. I will start by picking from where Sen. Sifuna left it. He said he does not know how many people come back here. I am one of those who got an opportunity to go through the dual education system in Germany. It opens the opportunity for you to develop experience especially, in the technical field, but at the same time advancing your studies.

As much as someone would want to say that Wamatinga is an uneducated kagege, I want to clarify that I am a software engineer, trained through a dual system, worked for an international company, IBM and later did a postgraduate diploma with Siemens AG. Those were then the creme de la creme of the IT companies in Europe.

more affordable. Most importantly, we have small nuclear reactors that can produce batches of up to 200 or 300 megawatts for about 80 years.

The best investment like wind is that you have a life expectancy of 20 years, while investing so much money. Right now, Kenya has gone and is almost getting where we can invest our pension funds in some of our development projects. It is time we re- looked at some of the dynamics that attract investments.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we will not achieve that unless we ensure that the cost of energy has been brought down. The marginalised counties that make about 80 percent of the landmass in Kenya remain unconnected to the national grid. You cannot expect to produce a product that can compete with any product from other parts of the world, when you are running a diesel generator. Therefore, it is the time we adopted modern technology.

As we look at mainstreaming, our schools should have duality now that we have the CBC system, where children from Grade Four can be introduced to a day or two per week; where they go and make a choice that is informed of what they want to be, and not wait until they do exams, so that exam results choose for them what to become. Most of us waited until we graduated in order to know what we wanted to become in life, because of the competition that was there. We did not have the luxury of having such opportunities.

That is unlike developed countries like Germany, where a child can make a choice right from kindergarten; that they want to become this and that, and they get an opportunity to visit those kinds of industries or service providers, make their decisions and affirm that is what they want to do. That is what can ensure that we are able to absorb the younger population into the job market.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we must also realign ourselves with the changing technology. We must also be able to leverage the way we do things with the Internet of Things (IoT). That cannot be done unless we embrace Artificial Intelligence, to ensure that we align that to the interests of the younger generation. Most importantly, to also align it to production. This is because, as much as people may not agree with me, Artificial Intelligence is going to become an important production factor, the way capital, land and labour are.

If we do not address the issue of the power shortage we have and with a spending reserve of less than 10 per cent, there is no serious investor who will come to this country. Without attracting enough serious investors and without value addition, this will not be possible if the cost of power becomes high. It is time we relooked at the model.

I am a proud supporter of the Kenya Kwanza Government because for the first time in 62 years, we can use our pension funds to invest in our infrastructure development projects. We have for the last 62 years been relying on pension funds from foreign countries, including the Western countries, whereas our people have been retiring after working for 36 years, with savings of only Kshs98,000.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it will be possible to grow our own pension. It will also be possible to save on the foreign exchange that we have been losing annually on repaying debts, and most importantly, to safeguard the consumers from the fluctuation of the hard currency. Those are some of the things that we will be able to do. We will also ensure

that as we move the younger generation into the next phase where they will need to move this country to a developed country, we must relook at the way we are doing our things.

I thank Sen. Cherarkey, again, for this wonderful Motion. However, I would like to tell him that a lot needs to be considered. One of the things that we may need to relook is the capitation to schools and the creation of dual systems, where children start from an early age to be mainstreamed in their areas of interest and they also participate in production that will go into meaningful use.

Sen. Wambua.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to also add my voice to the Motion by Sen. Cherarkey. The internship programme by the PSC is important because it taps into millions of young people who have left school and colleges and are not engaged. The programme gives them opportunity to choose and sharpen career paths that they choose.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, from where I sit, unemployment in this country is perhaps the single most serious threat to national stability. I have a different way of looking at engagements with the young people, especially those in major cities. When politicians and church leaders call for a meeting, a rally or a crusade during the week and you see tens of thousands of young people attend those meetings, rallies and crusades, it speaks to the problem of unemployment in this country. It shows that we have young people who are not engaged. When such things happen, we, as leaders, must think.

I worked in the media industry for quite a while. There is a category of reporters in media houses who are hardly recognized and properly rewarded; the correspondents or stringers for media houses. These people carry the heaviest burden for media houses. They are usually on the ground collecting and filing stories for the newsrooms. However, when it comes to recognition and reward, they are the least paid and recognized.

In his Motion, Sen. Cherarkey raised the issue on compensation for interns taken in by the PSC. I want to add my voice to it. Perhaps, it is time we begin to ask ourselves the big question: what is the contribution of the interns in the production sector of the economy?

I want Sen. Cherarkey to hear this because he is the Mover of this Motion. We are sitting on a time bomb. It does not matter which government or political party is in office. When we have an opportunity to collect money from the public, that money must be used in a proper way, to ensure that we create opportunities for young people to prosper and be engaged.

There is a subject that is not very sweet with many people, but it is one that we must confront. I was discussing it here with the Senator for Mombasa County a few minutes ago. We do collect housing levy from people who have payslips and there are projects taking place in some places, but it is agonizing to hear that part of that money has been invested in Treasury Bills.

This administration had an agenda and those of us in the Azimio Coalition also had the agenda of creating and equipping at least one factory in every county. That was very clear for us. The public service and the private sector need to get into the space of creating opportunities for young people, in order for them to be profitably engaged.

This programme, as rolled out by the Public Service Commission in 2019, is good. However, there are opportunities and room for improvement. We have many young people out there who graduated from schools and colleges but are not engaged. We should, therefore, make it mandatory that every Government institution must create avenues for internship for young people. The private sector institutions can also improve. If that is done, we will absorb our own people and give them opportunities.

In it, there should be clear career progression paths. A young person joining an institution as an intern will know that if they perform well, there will be an opportunity for them to be absorbed after a period of time. Secondly, they will have an opportunity to progress through the ranks of that institution or organisation to the top level.

Some of us take pride of sending X number of young people to work in Asia, Europe and the Middle East, but I think that it is something that we should not be proud of. We export young, energetic and talented people to go and help other economies to grow and prosper. As leaders, we have to make sure that young people get opportunities locally once they graduate.

Some county governments have done a good job. They run youth programmes which absorb X number of youths in their counties. They give them opportunities to undertake important roles in the development of the counties. After a period of time, they train them and ask them to invest in their own businesses.

This is an important Motion and it is something that we need to seriously think about. We should ensure that it does not just happen with the Public Service Commission. Instead, we should expand the scope to other institutions, the private sector and the county governments. With that, we will take in more young people and they will be engaged in useful and profitable activities.

With those many remarks, I support.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, Sir. First and foremost, I want to thank Sen. Cherarkey because most of his Motions are usually on welfare. He does look into issues that affect sportsmen, youth and women. I am impressed with that.

Engaging young men and women who have graduated from the university as interns is an important thing because it helps build their confidence and gives them exposure. They actually learn from each other when they interact in workplaces. In the past, when we were in university, we used to have field attachments. We used to go to different parts of the country and would make new friends and learn new skills. Actually, what we learnt in the field was more helpful and more practical that what we learnt in the classrooms.

I have noted that many students are exiting the university in this country. Our education system has also changed and we now have Curriculum Based Education (CBE) . We will soon have millions of Kenyans exiting universities. Soon, we will have more young men being admitted into universities just for them to be unemployed.

We, therefore, need to change our programs and policies. We cannot have our people looking for office jobs. We must also be skill-oriented; technology must have improved. We must also get new avenues for the people to do jobs; to be self-employed. Most of the Kenyans are only looking for jobs to work in offices. One place that is so untapped is the agricultural sector.

If you look at this country, we are only becoming consumers. We are importing food from our neighbours and from outside. Millions of monies are given as relief to drought-stricken areas every year. That food comes from outside this country, yet we see chunks of land that have been left idle.

It is high time that we have a land tenure system that will compel the owners of those big chunks of land that have remained idle for many years to be taxed or produce food, or allow them to be used by the same men and women who are ready to do farming and increase food production, so that this country is food is secure.

As I speak, we have a lot of idle land. The land tenure system in this country must be changed. We are dividing our lands into small pieces of two acres or three acres, and therefore, we are not able to produce food. Today, we are getting food from our neighbours, and if things continue, then this country will become a country of consumers and white-collar jobs.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is high time that we changed our priorities. We must tell our students and people that they must learn to till the land. They must produce their own food and sell it to the Government. We are spending so much money buying food from the neighbours. We have policy issues that we need to change.

One other thing is that we have Jua Kali and students who are in the Technical and Vocational Education Training (TVETS). We need to now think about how these people will not only be moulding metals and making buckets; they should also be thinking about producing some parts of the vehicles. It is very important to have things like discs and rims. Kenyans must be able to produce those kinds of things, so that at least we can get into that industry. Our people can produce enough spanners, wheels, rims and many other parts of the vehicles that can be done in this country.

We must now be self-employment oriented, not looking for jobs. The interns should be given money for self-employment. They should be able to farm their food and sell because that is the most productive and engaging activity today in this country.

There is no one time; even if you become a vegetable farmer, you will always have it in the market. If they produce maize, the government should be able to buy from them, so that everyone is given time, they are motivated to know that they can get employment and produce food for this country, so that we are food secure in this country.

In addition, our education system is more of raw memory than real protocol. Most of these people, even the kids in other countries, are producing computers and you see them producing a lot of beautiful things. The same technology has actually been taken to learning institutions. The students are learning a lot of things, but this business of telling students to go and draw something, go and cut boxes and mould is not what we want to do.

We need to have at least a technology-oriented learning for our children in their early years so that they can produce or make computers, or at least make something that will be able to serve this country. We are wrong, even in our education system and we need to review it.

The most important thing is that this intern business should also go to counties. In the counties, if you look at the books, the amount of money that is spent on personnel emoluments is just too huge. Some counties are going up to 72 per cent to employ people.

They are not even productive. So, we need to streamline the systems of engagement of the people who are looking for employment.

The PSC must produce and control the people who are going to be employed. The counties are actually employing people on their own. We have no systems that say that you have a success in employing people. Interns should go for internship and get a little money and thereafter end up in the streets.

We need to create a system, a database where interns are engaged, and their skills are known so that at least if it is going to be the National Youth Service (NYS), they can go back to the forces. If it is going to be food production or crop production, whatever, for farming, then they go for farming, and they are encouraged actually.

We need to look at our systems of production, our systems of labour, our systems of employment, and harmonise the schemes of employing people as it is. As it is, we are haphazardly doing internship and this kind of internship is not going to help the people.

With those few remarks, I beg to support the Motion.

Sen. Maanzo, you may proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to contribute to this very important Motion.

The young people in this country are very aggressive, and most of them aspire to have a big future. Unfortunately, the trouble we have now is worldwide, with young people and with opportunities.

The idea of internships is very good, and, in fact, in the Senate Standing Committee of National Cohesion, Equal Opportunities and Regional Intergration, every time a government agency comes over to Parliament to meet this committee, one of the questions we do ask is how many interns are in the organisation, and indeed, quite a number have been posted.

We also find out what the distribution of these interns is, in terms of ethnicity and also regional balance, to make sure that when interns are posted, they are able to pick and balance the country and give an opportunity at least to a young person.

It is true that the money is very meagre, and they may not be able to do much about it, although some of them have developed into a full job out of this internship. Unfortunately, that cannot take care of all the young people in the country. There are quite a number of young people who, after university, have decided to go into farming.

I watched a television programme, and a few from Uasin Gishu County, particularly in Hon. Oscar Sudi's Constituency, are growing and exporting chili. From the interview, you could see they are very knowledgeable about agriculture. Some of them never went through agricultural training, but they are able to read on the internet and get to find the best practices and ways to make sure that the crop grows well.

From their look, they do look like they are young people who come from ordinary villages. These young people, most probably come from well-to-do families and are unable to find a job, have decided to create jobs through farming, and of course, are well- funded to have the capital to be able to do something, and actually employ several young people in this country.

I believe many young people, given an opportunity, will really go into manufacturing, agriculture and cattle keeping. They will be very professional about it and

be able to earn a living and create jobs for others. Therefore, job opportunities are not only with the government. An internship is not the final solution. An internship cannot employ all the young people in the country.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, all over the world now, everybody is being sent to their home, especially if you come from Africa. If you go to Germany right now, most of the demonstrations in town are because some young people who were born in Germany of African origin, or half-cast, are being told to go back to their homes. Even those who have already been working and living there, there comes a time when they need to go back home.

It is even now impossible to send money home for the young people working abroad. Every country has come up with very stringent measures and taxes, such that you cannot send money home now for other people to benefit and to begin small businesses.

It is a worldwide challenge and it calls really for a nation like ours to do certain things in a certain way, to make sure we encourage creativity. There is a lot of work in the creative world. There is a lot of work through Internet writing. There is a lot of work if we use information technology. However, it cannot grow into a fully functional city without access to water. The Thwake Dam Project, which is critical to this development, has stalled for the past three years. We need all the necessary infrastructure in place, so that Konza City can become a center of employment. It can host thousands of workers, including those in digital spaces, enabling job creation through internet-based work. It can also accommodate interns, who can gain valuable experience through online companies, learn new skills and eventually employ themselves.

We must begin to look seriously at self-employment and future job creation. As Sen. Wamatinga has said, when the cost of electricity and fuel is high, the cost of investment also becomes high and discouraging. Manufacturers, such as the Senator for Nakuru County, can attest to this. High energy costs directly impact on the cost of investments.

Therefore, we must introduce incentives for young people and other investors. When investors like the Senator for Nakuru County invest, they create thousands of jobs. Some of those hired become salespeople. I know individuals from my own village who have become millionaires after working with her. They learnt the business culture, went through internships and today, they run successful enterprises, doing the same kind of business and supplying goods, earning a decent living.

These are not individuals with advanced education. They are people with basic education who learned practical business skills from the Senator for Nakuru County. Many other business leaders can do the same, help others grow, teach marketing and support the development of new companies. This must come from a place of encouragement. Young people must be motivated, supported and inspired to love their country and contribute to its growth.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we should all love our country. One of the best ways to express that love and contribute to nation-building is through voting. However, what we are witnessing today is troubling. Young people are not registering as voters. I had hoped to see them organize maandamanos to demand voter registration. I expected that when the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) opens registration, they would show up in large numbers, ready to change the nation and live the future they envision.

Some of these young people aspire to participate in elections and come to this Parliament to serve in the Senate. However, unless they register as voters, how will they ever become Senators? How will they become Members of the National Assembly? How will they become Members of the County Assembly (MCAs)? How will they create change?

We must also address the need for a change in attitude. Experts say that 90 per cent of success originates from the attitude one adopts. Today, we are seeing growing depression across the world. Look at what is happening in Sudan and all around us. In Russia after the war with Ukraine, young people are returning home mentally disturbed, some with missing limbs. When they see a black person walking in Europe or in a train, it leads to attacks. This is a worldwide problem, but we must narrow our focus to our own country.

While it is commendable that the Government is training young people through the Ministry of Foreign and Diaspora Affairs, the Ministry of Interior and National Administration and other national corporations, we must also encourage local investment and creativity. We must inspire young people to start businesses, no matter how small, and grow them.

We must also revive and support local industries. Many engineering graduates join companies, often run by businesspersons of Asian origin and work in industrial areas earning between Kshs20,000 and Kshs30,000. This gives them hope. It provides experience, which is often a requirement for employment. After some time, they become artisans, practice engineering and gain control over their lives. However, when we increase taxes, when the cost of living rises, when companies migrate and investors leave due to frustration with high taxes and instability caused by riots, it becomes impossible for businesses to thrive.

We cannot build our country by neglecting the environment necessary for investment. We must create an environment that is suitable for investors. When investors feel confident and supported, they bring in more interns across various fields, especially in engineering, manufacturing and other technical sectors. This leads to meaningful engagement of our youth, who gain valuable experience and a sense of purpose.

As the Senator for Nairobi City County has said, when a graduate living in Nairobi earns Kshs17,000, they face immense pressure. They are of age to marry, often have families in rural areas and are expected to support those who invested in their education. They are unable to meet the expectations of their villages, families and communities. That is why expanding internship opportunities is important.

There are also many employment opportunities within the religious sector. Churches can offer internships to young pastors and other youth who wish to serve.

However, there are frustrating practices and restrictive laws that hinder the growth of emerging churches. These institutions play a vital role in mentoring young people’s souls, guiding their spiritual development and helping them stay close to their God. When young people are grounded spiritually, they are more likely to prosper.

To sum up, the main idea is to build an industrialised nation, one that invests in agriculture, business and local enterprise. We must create an environment where investors feel comfortable, so they can accommodate and empower young people. When youth earn a living, they gain hope and the economy grows. This also boosts sectors like tourism, where many young people can find meaningful work.

Sen. Cherarkey, why are you interrupting the Members when they are contributing to your Motion? If you do not want them to contribute, then I call on you to reply and we move on.

You know the procedure for giving information to the Members, not just heckling someone who is contributing to your Motion.

The next is Sen. Consolata Nabwire Wakwabubi.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for according me this opportunity to contribute to the Motion. Most of the issues have been tackled, but I have a rider to what the four Senators have presented.

One is concerning the monetary stipend. There is also a need for us to support the welfare of these interns. We need to enhance other aspects, like having some health insurance for them, providing a transport subsidy and improving digital tools, since the youths are so much in the digital space.

I also want to add the issue of having transparent reporting and oversight mechanism that can be added to that Motion by Sen. Cherarkey. We need to have some public defender, somebody who can be a voice of the citizen to articulate the issues of the youth, and that can be in form of an ombudsman or “ombudslady,” because I am gender sensitive.

There is also need to have a legal or other regulatory backing to push the legal rights of the interns in their internship spaces, since some of them tend to encounter some injustices. Therefore, it is important to have such framework. So, the internship guidelines can be amended to some level.

From the perspective of one of the Committee on National Cohesion, Equal Opportunity and Regional Cohesion that I serve, I would also propose that we have equitable distribution of internship opportunities, so that we also decentralise them to the counties or grassroots. This is because most of them are centralised in urban centres such as Nairobi, Mombasa and Kisumu. Therefore, that hampers the participation of other youth.

As a Kenyan, a leader and a representative of the people, I want to point out that the youth bulge tantamount to a demographic bomb that we are just sitting on. Instead of looking at the demographic dividends that we need to fetch as a country, we are silently watching and, therefore, that is why we are having a lot of unrest from our young generation. This is because they are idle. That is why they are engaging in substance abuse, drug abuse, drug trafficking and various vices. So, as a country, it is important that we utilise this youth population to boost our economic growth and development, since I believe that the youth are highly productive as compared to the advanced age where I also belong. However, I am not negating the fact that I need to be here. I need to be here so that I articulate issues on their behalf back at home.

So, I would also advise that the Ministry of Public Service and Human Capital Development in consultation with the human capital development can carry out a cost- benefit analysis to establish if this thing is viable. Let us look at it and carry out a cost- benefit analysis, because it will propel us to have informed choices or decisions to accommodate our youth. We need to establish clear transition pathways that have realistic job prospects, so that the youth do not find the internship spaces just for free labour or as empty spaces for running errands. This is because they also need to build on their skill sets and develop their skills.

We also need to promote innovation and reward outstanding interns, so we can create an incentive scheme where we also reward and appreciate them. You can give them certificates or even opportunities for further training. We are wasting our young population. We are really staring at having brain drain instead of brain gain.

Therefore, as a country, we need to look at that. There are so many points, but I know that most of them have been captured by the distinguished Senators. So, we only keep beefing up. So, I also accede to this Motion by Sen. Cherarkey. I acclaim you for proposing that Motion.

I support.

Very well. Let us have Sen. Joyce Chepkoech Korir.

Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker. Much has been said by the Hon. Colleagues, but let me congratulate Hon. Cherarkey for the effort that he has really put forward in terms of making sure that a number of issues are addressed.

The Motion that is before us affects our youth. A number of colleagues have mentioned a number of things. On the request by the Mover of the Motion in terms of making sure that there is increment in terms of the salaries or the stipends that are being given, with the common sense, life has become so hard and it is only prudent if we can try as much as possible to increase it. I know this issue will affect the two Houses in

terms of budgeting and it will be prudent for the two Houses to give a special consideration to this because this is the only way that we can assist our youth.

A number of youths are suffering back at home. They have utilised their time; a number of them are so learned, only find no space to work. Despite the efforts that has been put forward by the Government in making sure that they have lent a hand to a number of youths through a number of programmes, ranging from affordable housing, which I think a number of youths are operating there; I know that they are paid peanuts, which at the end of the day, might not sustain them. However, it is a way the Government is trying as much as possible to make sure that it assists them.

I know a number of Ministries also have been able to absorb a number of youths, including the Teachers Service Commission (TSC), which has played a key role in terms of making sure that a number of teachers are absorbed. However, a number of teachers who graduated back in 2010, 2011, the P1s, are still unattended to.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is indeed a challenge despite the fact that we have all these programmes. The Ministries have invented a way of taking the youths abroad, but there should be a clear way. Sometimes they take ages for them to even actualise the issue of documentation, I believe if the public service gives them the opportunity to serve as the interns, they should be given the first priority when it comes to jobs abroad. This is because at the end of the day, they have gained experience and got the opportunity. They can exit so that others can also get the opportunity to be trained and gain that experience.

The fast-tracking of the documentation is what we are also requesting the Ministry of Labour and Social Protection, through the assistance of our committees, so that at least when these youths are done with their induction or their internship, they can transit to the next place. This is because there is no need of them just being given the opportunity to serve for three months and then they just come and vanish again within the villages.

It would be prudent for us, as Government, to make sure that at least there is a proper transition of these interns to a better place. Not only that, I also know that there are a number of programmes, for example, the National Youth Opportunities Towards Advancement (NYOTA) Programme that is trying to assist those who have not even gone to schools. It is a challenge. Of course, the Government is trying to make sure that at least there is some engagement with the youth. However, I also want to believe that it is always prudent for them to be taken through some induction, so that even if they are going to be given these monies, they will be able to utilise it and make sure that it changes their lives.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are a number of youths that are stressed in this country and even engaged in drugs. They just want to avoid the responsibilities which are so huge compared to what they are earning.

I also encourage the Government, especially the Cabinet Secretary for Trade, Investments and Industry to try to assist the investors in terms of the requirements. That way, we can have a number of investors who can assist us and develop a number of factories that can also allow our youths to be employed and earn their daily living.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is good that we also have funds that enable our youths to do their innovation and developments. These include the Youth Fund and the Hustler Fund, which I do not know how far it has gone.

This was a fund that was established to assist our youth. I know a number of them could not continue because of the challenges that they are getting because of lack of inductions and room to learn from those who are well established.

I request that maybe we go further to make sure we allocate the budget, so that we can allow the CS to implement and make sure that our youths are really attended.

I support.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have been around for some time. I thought maybe I had been forgotten.

This is a well-thought Motion by my good friend, Sen. Cherarkey, that touches on a number of issues bedevilling the country right now. As much as the Public Service Commission (PSC) is doing a great job in absorbing these young people as interns, much more needs to be done.

We are sitting on a very serious crisis in the country because I think unemployment is a menace that is eating into our society. Every other day we are producing young ones from the universities, tertiary colleges and mid-level colleges. The job opportunities in this country are very scarce.

It is a matter that needs a lot of deliberation or discussion. We need to have a very serious conversation, as a country, on the future of this nation as far as unemployment is concerned.

how we are supposed to put up job-absorbing opportunities for our young people. We have so many opportunities that are supposed to be exploited in this country.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, if you go to some counties such as Tharaka-Nithi, where I come from, you rarely find a place where a young person would wake up one morning and say he has gone to maybe to look for a hustle and get maybe Kshs1,000 or so. That is across the board, maybe save for some other few places where people would go to coffee, tea or milk factories here and there.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we need to make sure that our counties have industries and factories. All counties have different potential. There are some counties with some great potential with mangoes, others are agriculturally endowed and doing so many issues here and there. That is why we are supposed to have that conversation and make sure that our country is industrialized. That is the only way out to make sure that our youth are absorbed in the job market.

If you go to the villages today, maybe with high-end cars, like the ones that we drive; the Prados and so forth, the people that you get along the roads everywhere are the young people. Most of them are graduates and very skilled yet, they are there jobless. Most of them have even fallen prey to being used by some politicians here and there as goons and hooligans. This is purely because they want to make a living out of some funny undertakings. It is a time bomb and serious menace that, as a country, we are supposed to have a very sincere discussion around.

It is very pathetic that, today, as parents we want to take our children through the education system, to the university and colleges. We are not even sure whether this child will get a job. They say there is no job guarantee in this country anymore. The ones that are there are very scarce. It is an issue that is supposed to bring on board great minds, as a country, so that we have a very clear conversation on how we are supposed to make sure that this joblessness, which has bedevilled the country, is addressed once and for all.

That is the only way we can even minimize crime. Crime is not even the preserve of the uneducated anymore. I know of a certain county, that I do not want to mention, where some young people have created some very serious systems and they are siphoning money out of some bank account from some unsuspecting clients.

The only way out we can address some of these things is to make sure we engage our youth in meaningful employment. That is the only way we can make sure that this country moves forward. I think it is a collective responsibility for every leader, politician and every person who cares about this country.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Motion is supposed to guide, not to compel. We can have very wide interventions and discussions on the Motion that ends up finding itself in our dustbins here without even finding its way to any government agency.

So, let us not do these things in futility. Let us make sure that this Motion now graduates into a Bill that compels some of these institutions to make sure that we address the menace. It is shameful that 60 years down the line, we are still struggling to feed our young people who are out of school. It is shameful that 60 years down the line, the country is still struggling to make sure that we absorb our young people in the job market.

Sen. Cherarkey, please, make sure that this Motion is implemented by the relevant agencies, so that we can have our young people--- You cannot have a situation where you pay somebody Kshs15,000. That is a shame!

With those few remarks, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to support the Motion. Let us not have this Motion find its way to the dustbin, just like very many other Motions that are processed in this House. I hope this Motion is going to get the attention of the intended Government entities, so that our young people are taken care of and respected. It is being disrespectful to pay a graduate Kshs15,000 in this economy.

I thank you.

Sen. Mo Fire, there is a time someone told another Senator that he was doing his first term in the Senate. The advice you have given Sen. Cherarkey, who is a seasoned legislator, is the route he could have taken to help the interns. Maybe you should get the advice of Sen. Gataya next and do the right thing.

Proceed, Sen. Keroche Tabitha.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity to also support this Motion, which was brought by Sen. Cherarkey.

I also want to take this opportunity to congratulate the Public Service Commission for providing internship opportunities to many of our youth in various Government Departments and Agencies for a period not exceeding one year. The programme has provided practical experience to graduates and enhanced employability.

I also thank the private sector because they have also been providing internship opportunities to many of our youth. They have been doing it freely by getting money from their pockets. Mine is to request the Public Service Commission to partner with the private sector, to ensure that we have more numbers of our youth getting internship opportunities to enable them get the practical experience, in order to get to the next level.

I know that our Kenya Kwanza Government, headed by our able President Dr. William Ruto, is working very hard to ensure that it transforms this country. We have seen a lot of things happening in the country. One of them is the Affordable Housing Programme (AHP) that is providing a lot of job opportunities to our youth.

The Public Service Commission should be worried about where our youth go after internship. As our President works hard to transform this country, I pray that he continues

supporting local entrepreneurs and create an enabling environment for both local and foreign investors, to ensure that after internship, our youth get job opportunities.

When those kids of ours get internships that come to an end, I think they are affected psychologically. They have the practical experience that they were looking for and they become better. Therefore, they stand a big chance to be employed, but when they walk around the country, they do not get jobs or opportunities available to them.

Being an entrepreneur, I know this country has many entrepreneurs. All they need is to get an opportunity so that they expand and ensure that we create jobs in this country. We need to create job opportunities for our youth. One of the issues in our manifesto is to industrialise this country, and that is doable.

I do not know whether Sen. Joyce has left. I can see she is still around. The NYOTA Programme is not meant for people who are not educated because it is for everyone. I urge the youth to take advantage of the opportunity that is provided by the Government. They can start a business with Kshs50,000.

The youth know that white collar-jobs are no longer available. Therefore, they need to become more innovative, so that they become job creators and not job seekers. What the Government of Kenya is doing is to provide that opportunity, through the NYOTA Programme, to ensure that our youth become job creators and not job seekers---

Point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Tabitha Keroche, would you like to be informed by Sen. Joyce Korir?

I do not know whether she wants to inform me---

Are you interested to be informed?

Maybe you correct it after I have finished. According to me, the Government is doing all it can to ensure that our youth become job creators and not job seekers. As we continue putting structures in place, I think the youth should become part and parcel of industrialisation of this country.

I agree with Sen. Cherarkey that the stipend of Kshs15,000 that interns is given to the interns is very little. Therefore, it should be increased to Kshs30,000. We should also put in place mechanisms to promote and reward innovation by interns. If interns become innovative, I am sure they will be our next entrepreneurs in this country.

We should also have a way of keeping track of our youth when they undertake internships. We should know how many are getting job opportunities and how many are creating their own jobs. The youth should know that there is a track record in place. If they know that we are following them up, perhaps, they will not get frustrated. We are seeing what is happening. Our youth are undergoing depression and we should try to prevent that.

The Motion brought by Sen. Cherarkey is something that we, Senators, should not leave at this. Like many of us have said, we are sitting on a time bomb. If the issue of job opportunities is not addressed, it will be a problem in the long run. It will not even be

long but soon. Therefore, we need to address the issue of creating job opportunities for our youth.

The Government that is headed by His Excellency Dr. William Ruto is able. They are burning the midnight oil to ensure that we transform this country. The first thing should be to ensure that jobs are created, to ensure that our youth are well catered for. They should get jobs after graduation in order to move forward. The youth should also go out of their way to become job creators and not just job seekers.

In our case, we got employed then left the jobs to become who we are today because of believing in ourselves. So, they just need to believe in themselves. They have a Government that is providing free money to do business in this country. During our time we never got even a free shilling. We had to think and go knock at the banks.

I assure them that the money in the NYOTA Programme is enough to ensure they start a business and become job creators and not job seekers. Within a short while, they will be employing another one or two people. In the long run, they will be having many people.

If the Public Service Commission (PSC) partners with the private sector, I believe we will be giving more internships to our youth because the private sector has been doing it freely. I have been a Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of a company for the past 25 years and I know every year we had 10 interns. If we were supported by the Government, I am sure these companies can give more internship opportunities to many people.

It is true that when they go to companies, they will have a different mindset. If they see things being done by other people, they will also think twice on how they can also become entrepreneurs in their own country after they have left the gate.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I support Sen. Cherarkey. I believe that if we push this Motion further, to ensure youth job creation, it will become part of what will be helping the Government think outside the box on how our youth should be catered for in this country.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika, kwa kunipa nafasi hii ili nichangie Hoja hii kuhusu pesa finyu ambazo vijana wanaofanya mazoezi ya kazi katika taasisi mbalimbali.

Nimesikiza michango ya waheshimiwa hususan yale ambayo Serikali Kuu yapaswa kufanya ili kuinua maisha ya vijana ambao wamepewa kazi kwa muda mdogo wa miezi mitatu. Ieleweke kwamba katika nchi ya Kenya, kuna awamu mbili za serikali; Serikali inayoongozwa na Mhe. Dr. William Ruto na serikali za ugatuzi zinazoongozwa na magavana na wabunge wa kaunti.

Changamoto ambayo ningependa kuwapatia wenzangu na serikali za ugatuzi ni kwamba, mchakato mzima wa kuboresha maisha ya vijana na kuwapa nafasi ya kuboresha taaluma zao haupaswi kuwekwa kwa mabega ya Serikali Kuu pekee yake. Hii ni kwa sababu serikali za ugatuzi zinapewa pesa kutoka Serikali Kuu na vile vile, zinakusanya ushuru ama kodi kutoka kwa washika dau katika kaunti na pia bunge za kaunti na mamlaka ya kutunga sheria kama vile sisi tunavyofanya hapa.

Mimi ninawapatia changamoto Maseneta wenzangu kwamba tuwarai magavana watenge fedha za kuajiri vijana kwa muda mchache, jinsi Serikali Kuu inavyofanya kwa majukumu ambayo yamegatuliwa.

Sekta ya kilimo ni sekta ambayo kaunti zikikita mizizi vizuri, vijana wengi walio katika vyuo vya ukulima, wanaweza kuboresha mapato na tija ya ukulima katika kaunti zetu zilizo na mifugo, samaki, kaunti zinazopanda mahindi, ngano na kadhalika. Niliona mfumo ulioandikwa na wakulima na watu wa biashara ama agroprenuers kutoka Serikali Kuu na wale wa kaunti.

Kuna mkataba wa Serikali Kuu na kaunti, lakini tunataka kuona serikali za kaunti zikichukua vijana kutoka shule anwai na kuwanyoosha katika kuendeleza ukulima na biashara katika kaunti zetu.

Mhe. Rais anazuru kaunti zote huku nchini akizindua mfumo wa uboreshaji nyumba ambao wananchi wanaweza kujikimu kulipa. Ningependa kuuliza wenzangu na magavana: Ni vijana wangapi katika vyuo anwai ambao wamesomea ufundi, wamepewa nafasi ya kufanya kazi ili wapate ujuzi huku wakisoma? Hizi ndizo mbinu ambazo tunaweza kutumia kuwapa vijana nafasi.

Tumeona taasisi mbali za kilimo kama vile Kenya Agricultural and Livestock Research Organisation (KALRO) na Kenya Agricultural Research Institute (KARI) zikitoa madawa ya kupambana na magonjwa ya mifugo. Taasisi hizi zimechangia kivipi kuwapa nafasi vijana ili wanaporudi nyanjani, wanachangia uboreshaji wa nchi ya Kenya?

Nikimalizia, mfumo huu umekuwepo miaka mingi lakini, nimeona vijana kwenye simu yangu ya rununu wakiuliza ni mbinu zipi, mfumo upi na mikakati ipi inatumiwa kuwachukua hao vijana ambao wanapata hiyo Shilingi 15,000? Je, hao vijana wanatoka pembe zote huku nchini?

Iwapo sisi sote ni Wakenya, vijana hao wanasema kwamba wanapo chapisha majina ya vijana hawa, wanafaa kuwa na majina kutoka sehemu zote za nchi ya Kenya. Vijana kutoka Bonde la Ufa, kutoka kwetu ingoo kule Bungoma, Nyanza, Turkana na Mombasa wanafaa wakuwe katika orodha hiyo. Hii ni kwa sababu wanapofanya kazi katika taasisi za Serikali, waweze kujua kwamba nchi ni moja na nafasi za kujenga nchi pamoja zipo kwa sisi sote. Isiwe kwamba wanapokutana ni kama mahindi moja katika jangwa lisilo na mmea wowote.

Naungana na Sen. Cherarkey kusema kwamba Serikali ya Mhe. William Ruto inasema tuungane pamoja, tupige vita ukabila na yote yanawezekana iwapo nafasi hizi zitapewa Wakenya wote, pasipo kuzingatia misingi ya dini, ukabila au jinsia.

Kwa hayo mengi, naunga mkono Hoja ya Sen. Cherarkey. Asante Sana.

Sen. Olekina, are you ready now?

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to contribute to this Motion, which in my view, requires a complete transformation and complex policy shift from the current one. Remember, when we talk about a comprehensive transformational policy shift, that has pros and cons. The question that we must ask is if this programme has been able to absorb interns into permanent jobs since it was started. To me, it is not about benefits.

I have read the Motion as presented by the distinguished Senator from Nandi, but for me, the question is not about an internship programme; it is about what happens after these qualified Kenyans--- The courts in this country have actually ruled that if an intern is performing a task which is aligned to their skills, they must be treated as employees and must be protected by the law.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the question then begs, what do we need to do? What policy shift do we need to adopt as a country in order to ensure that the younger generation is taken into consideration and provided with job opportunities? The first question we ask is; since this programme began, how many people has the public service absorbed? How many interns have they been able to place in all government ministries? The answer is simple. Every year, the Ministry of Public Service and Human Capital Development, absorbs approximately 3,000 to 3,500 interns and places them in government ministries. In fact, it was only in 2023 or 2024 that the Ministry absorbed about 8,000 interns and placed them into different government ministries. When you look at the level or the percentage, this was only about 7.71 per cent and now the Ministry has moved to about 8 per cent. Is that really a solution? No, it is not. So, we need to think seriously.

I have listened to my colleague, Sen. Mo Fire, coming in with a good proposal saying that this Motion will end up in a dustbin. It is not going to be anything unless we come up with a legislation that guarantees interns jobs. You are talking about increasing their benefits, but, in fact, you are not even looking at the entire welfare. You are only talking about them receiving Kshs15,000 to Kshs30,000. What about paternal, maternity and sick leaves? What about innovation benefit? Those are some of the things that we need to propose, and that is why I began my argument this afternoon by saying that we need a complex transformative policy shift in how we deal with these interns.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have a few proposals, which I hope that the distinguished Senator will note and ensure that this Motion does not remain as a Motion, but is transformed into a piece of legislation. By then, I would hope that this House will have all the 24 delegations, so that we move it. I have not witnessed what I am witnessing here in the last Parliament. I want to be very candid.

In the last parliament, our side and the other side would be empty during the end of the term, but now it seems everybody is busy out there trying to figure out and that is very difficult. If you look at the Order Paper, you will see that we have so many Bills and we cannot pass them.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the following are the proposals that I want to put on this Motion. I hope the distinguished Senator will give me an ear, and that my colleagues will listen to this.

Currently, the Kenyan Government has proposed a tax incentive to the private sector where the Government will give a rebate of up to 50 per cent of the salaries paid to private companies that are providing internships to young Kenyans who are graduating. That is the path that we need to take. The Government will not be able to solve this problem. There is no African country that has absorbed all interns; it is not possible. The government is not an employment bureau. It should make it easy and create an enabling environment for the private sector to be able to create jobs.

So, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, one of my proposals would be that the distinguished Sen., Cherarkey from Nandi County, should not only look at a review of the guidelines of the public service, but propose a complex transformation of the policy on interns to guarantee jobs.

The only way that the private sector would be able to play ball is if the Government came up with a tax incentive. Currently, there is this programme, I hope people know, that if a company employs up to 10 interns, they can receive up to 50 per cent rebate on the salaries that they pay. We need to encourage that.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the day I become president of this country, and that day will come, is the day when we will be able to practice what we preach. Today, we do not practice what we preach. Instead, we preach, preach and preach and we forget that yesterday we said ABCD. We have to scan our current horizon to see what is going wrong, come up with and build scenarios, and ask ourselves, what if we did this? The scenario that I want us to build here today is; what if the National Treasury came out during reading of the budget and said that the private sector would receive a tax rebate if they employed or took interns to end unemployment? What would happen?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is not quantum physics. The first answer would end unemployment in this country. It would reduce unemployed youth who are running around in this country. I was listening to Sen. Mo Fire, whom, if you listened to, was actually speaking sense. He said that, due to challenges faced, a lot of youth in this country, become innovative. They become hackers. They are able to get into your account and continue living a good life. You work your butt off and by the time you go home, you think you have so much money, and yet, because they are unemployed they use their skills to get your money for them to continue living their lives.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, there are many things that we talk about in this country, but the day we practice what we preach is the day we will see this country change. Yes, we have come up with new innovations but we are not rewarded. The Government has come up with a programme that gives youth Kshs50,000 to start a job. I do not want to equate that to what the former Senator of Kiambu County did.

One day, he had one of his empowerment programmes and donated pigs to people. Instead of those pigs being multiplied by those who received them, they slaughtered them and had food for a week. So, what if you give a youth Kshs50,000 today? They might decide what to spend and what to keep. Maybe they are used to spending Kshs5,000 a month. So, they may spend that for 10 months and survive. That is a big challenge. That is a challenge that all of us here, individually and collectively, must sit down and critically think about a solution.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am currently grappling with a very complex issue where I have a hundred students who I am sponsoring at the university in Maasai Mara. I have been asking myself, once these students graduate, what will I do with them? If I give them some small seed capital, would it help them? If I placed them on internships, would they be able to get jobs or would I have just wasted my money and that of other partners to educate these youth? That is one of the biggest problems that I am having at the moment. When I see this Motion, the only thing that I can think about is coming up

with a legislation, not a Motion, that clearly identifies a path to full employment, cognisant of the fact that government is not an employment bureau.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I end, I would like to give some certain statistics which are important. That, since 2019, this programme has only placed 25,200 interns, an average of about 3,000 to 3,500. The absorption rate has only been about 7 per cent. What happened to the other 93 percent? Are they wallowing in poverty or in debt? So, we need to be alive to the fact that it is very difficult for the Government to absorb all the interns. We must review the guidelines before we develop a legislation, and if we can implement fully, then we would need to review the guidelines to include the following.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, one of the concerns that the distinguished Senator is having is with the interns in Nairobi, Mombasa and Kisumu. What about those ones who are in the hardship regions like Turkana, Narok and Nandi? We need to think thoroughly and critically. Think outside the box and say, it is now time for us to review this policy and include, sick leave, paternal and maternity leaves and most importantly, align the interns with their skills, so that they can be market ready. That is critical.

I worked as an intern at the European Business News in London and the first thing I did was to print the news and take it to the newsreader. During that process, I was able to understand how a script is drafted and what is important. I was aligned to my practice and career and I was market ready. That is important.

It is also important that once we review this policy, we develop a standardised recruitment process that is clear. It should be able to provide equal opportunities for everyone. There are young people who just need an attachment.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, just add me 30 seconds, I finish my words. For this attachment, unless they know you or the Senator, then they cannot get it. I, therefore, support this Motion and hope that Sen. Cherarkey will take the advice we have given.

Sen. Hezena Lemaletian.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to contribute to the Motion by the hon. Senator for Nandi, Sen. Cherarkey. As a youth Senator, I cannot afford not to put my words across as far as this Motion is concerned. I also agree with my colleagues that there is need for a policy change in this country, but more importantly, a shift in our mindsets.

Why do I say this? Interns go through a lot and most of them are breadwinners. Most of our youth working in various government institutions are breadwinners. If we were to rank the level of depression in young people in globally, Kenya would rank among the top. That is why you see them appearing very much aggressive on social media and on the streets. It is because of the level of frustration that our young people are going through.

We need a shift in our mindset regarding our country, as far as the administration is concerned. We need to think about programmes and projects that would create a producing rather than a consuming economy. We have so much potential in this country and we are capable of being one of the largest agricultural producers across the continent and globally.

We have very good climate. We have very good soils. We have enough rainfall in most parts of this country. We have enough land and if we can convert these huge tracts of land into agricultural fields and plantations then we could secure the future of our country as far as food security is concerned. I feel pained when I see that we have to import maize or some agricultural produce when in reality, many of our young people are sitting idle and yet, these are hard-working people. I know that most of the youth right now are late Millennials and Gen Zs. These are people who are very hardworking and who can get into business.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have just come back from Ethiopia. We realised that Ethiopia has beaten us as far as agriculture is concerned. We were there with our Committee on Agriculture, Livestock and Fisheries. There is a policy in Ethiopia that the administration has put in place that restricts land fragmentation. What is the consequence of this? The consequence is that we have enough land for production and citizens are constricted into planned housing development. Once you put citizens to live at a certain place, then we get enough land for people to produce.

Shockingly, in Ethiopia, agriculture is making up over 50 per cent of the country's Gross Domestic Product (GDP). You tell me, how much would Kenya make given that we are gifted in everything? We have minerals, the manpower and brains. Our youth have brains. They are able to spur development in this country and take us to the next level.

I also believe that the Government has done a lot as far as trying to reduce the level of unemployment in this country, but who is talking about it? Who is marketing what the Government has done? How many people are talking about the programmes that are put in place? Who is this bridging the gap between the Government and the youth because there is clearly a huge gap?

When you hear the President talking about the things he has done to secure the future of this country and the youth, you ask yourself; who is telling the youth what is being done because they are totally oblivious? In my view, there is a need to create an independent ministry for youth affairs. This is because, the youth make up the largest demographic segment in this country. We make up the largest voting bloc in this country. We make up over 75 per cent of the population of Kenya. That means we cannot afford to have youth affairs being put under culture and sports. Those are diverse things. I do not even see the correlation between the three. If we had an independent youth ministry, we would have a budget for the youth and we are would streamline all government operations through the Ministry, so that we take care of the business of the youth because it is a huge business.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank my Party Leader, Raila Odinga, because he had a dream. Baba had a dream in his last campaign. He wanted the Ministry of Youth to be an independent Ministry because the youth occupied a central part of his heart. He understood that the country was going nowhere if we did not talk about the youth, and that the country was doing nothing if we did not prioritise the largest demographic of our country.

I worked in several ministries before I became a Senator. I was working in the Department of Finance and I remember one of the ladies could barely see what was on the computer. She was struggling to see what was written on the computer. Such a person

needs to retire because the youth are jobless. However, she could not be fired because the boss, the top dog in that State Department, was from her tribe. I was the only young person in that Department of Finance. I would be given heavy workload and was being punished for being young and new, and maybe, for being a minority. Such opportunities should go to the many young Kenyans, the youth, who are your children, for your information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

If the administration could shift its mind and start thinking about producing rather than consuming, then we would start thinking about the manufacturing sector and factories. We would start thinking about farms. Kenyan youth are very talented and gifted. You can see what they are creating with Artificial Intelligence (AI). Is what they are creating with AI controlled within the Republic of Kenya? There is so much potential for our young people in technology. Kenya ranks high in internet consumption in the continent. It ranks lower than South Africa, but it has beaten Nigeria, and yet Nigeria has a larger population of over 250 million compared Kenya’s 50 million. The main reason for this is that internet is expensive in Nigeria.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, how are we utilising affordable internet in Kenya to benefit our youths, the largest demographic group in our country? I will say the same thing I always say when campaigning which is; “you cannot think of taking care of a nation without taking care of the largest population of that nation.” We would kill so many birds with one stone if we secured the youth by giving them opportunities in agriculture, technology and manufacturing. We would actually secure the future of Kenya as far as food is concerned. We would no longer borrow.

It is shameful for a nation to borrow food from outside, yet its youths and land are idle. We should think about how we can provide water to the nomads in the north for them to farm their lands. How many investors are coming to set up factories in Kenya? What are we doing with our policies to ensure that our country is an attractive destination for manufacturing? What are we, as state officers, doing to ensure that we do not ask investors for bribe when they come to our country?

What happened when Aliko Dangote tried to set up a cement manufacturing plant in Kenya? He ran away because of corruption. How many opportunities would the Dangote cement factory have brought to the young people in Kenya? How much frustration is being put on local investors who have been here for so long?

There is need for us to think about the youths as our children and a people who deserve decent life, decent wage bill and decent employment. There is need to make the National Youth Service (NYS) mandatory. The young people should be paid something while they are in school. The success story and growth of all nations that have developed since time immemorial are rooted in investment in the future of the youth.

When you look at the West African countries that have just gone through a coup, you will realise that those leaders have invested in agriculture and manufacturing. Burkina Faso relaunched its airline while Kenya, a nation that developed years ago, is still being defeated by small nations. How much are we producing to be able to borrow loans?

Personally, I am embarrassed to borrow when I know I can get my hands in the mud and get it. I sold pancakes and mandazis because I could not get a job in this

government, simply because I did not know anybody. I speak for the youths because I have lived and walked their journey. This happened to me four or six years ago.

We must shun nepotism and tribalism in this country. Fellow Senators, be ready to employ somebody whom you are not related to. State officers and Government agencies should employ somebody even if they do not know them as long as they are qualified. The requirements for one to be employed should be reduced.

We cannot continually impoverish families by not giving the young people jobs. Parents and families impoverish themselves to educate young people, for those young people to wait for close to ten years to get a decent job. It is ironic that the same government then wants to take care of the same parents that it has impoverished. This is repetitive circle of poverty which we have the power, as a nation, to change.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Hon. Senators, this Motion has surpassed the time allocated to it. Sen. Cherarkey, the Mover, has 15 minutes. If you are magnanimous enough, you could share your 15 minutes with Sen. Mumma and Sen. Mandago. The choice is yours.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you know I am always generous. I will allow three or four minutes to Sen. Mumma and three to four minutes to Sen. Mandago.

Very well, let us hear from Sen. Mumma.

Thank you so much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, and thank you, Sen. Cherarkey, for the opportunity to contribute to this.

First, I thank you for bringing this Motion. This Motion is pregnant with issues beyond what you have raised. I hope you will pick something from all the contributions and later move beyond this Motion and bring something more substantive akin to a policy or possibly a legislative framework that can assist us.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the internship programme, as guided by the Public Service Commission (PSC) is a drop in the ocean of what is required. If you look at the numbers that have participated in this programme since 2019, you will realise that it is possibly less than 2 per cent of what is required. Internship is not always---

I do not think that three minutes have lapsed. Surely, what are you trying?

Internship is not necessarily done after qualification. In most or nearly all universities, internship is a pre-qualification requirement. Many of us do not appreciate the fact that many students in this country have never qualified or got their degrees because they never got an opportunity to intern.

I am cognisant of the time, and therefore, I will hurry. As we look at these issues, I want us to come up with a law that will give fair opportunity and equal access to every graduate or learning student to intern. They should not do it just because they know somebody, but because it is their right to go through it if they are qualified. For this to happen, we need a deliberate cooperation between industry, private sector, the universities and the tertiary institutions. As we do so, there is a second issue in

terms of abuse of internships. We do have workplaces that actually abuse internship. They employ few people compared to what is required of their workforce then have interns whom they pay less.

We have doctors and other professionals who continue to be paid internship salaries. They are asked to stay on condition that they will be paid the intern salary. In my view, that is abuse of labour practices. So, if we come up with a law, we must also protect interns who are vulnerable from workplaces that want to abuse their resource to enrich themselves.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I said, there is an even bigger problem. If we use the statistics of students who graduated last year, 2024, you will realise that about a million left O-levels, but only 300,000 were up-taken in the tertiary institutions and universities. This means that we have a whopping 600,000 and something, who have not been taken in any tertiary institution. We have idle Vocational Training Centres (VTCs) that are under the control of governors. Sen. Hezena, you will be sad to know that when we met with Samburu County, we got to know that Samburu has only one VTC that was built in 199---

Sen. Mandago, you have the Floor.

Thank you, Deputy Speaker, Sir. Thank you very much, Sen. Cherarkey, for allowing us to use your time to contribute to this Motion. First, let me say that internship is a very good programme. However, the current numbers being taken by the PSC are way below what one would expect the institution to have in order to help the many young people we have in the country.

Currently, the PSC takes 9,000 interns, which translates to about only six youth in every ward in this country. The distribution has not been fair and equitable. My proposal to Sen. Cherarkey, even as he considers this, is that he should first make sure that all internship positions are distributed per ward level to ensure they reach every part of this nation.

Secondly, interns should not only be placed in public institutions, but they should also be in the private sector, but paid by the government. This is to ensure that they are not treated as tea-boys, messengers, tea-girls and so forth, instead of actually participating in the areas they trained in.

There is a need, in this country, and we must have a candid conversation as a nation and the Senate must lead this conversation. We have to increase the number of interns from 9,000 to around 300,000 for the programme to make sense in this country. That would call for a budget provision. It would call for a cut in some of our expenditure in the budget. Even if it calls for cutting on infrastructural development to make sure that these young people are given the opportunity to acquire skills further and be engaged meaningfully, even as they mature, the period would also allow them a to mature, make progress in life and be able to make some quality decisions even as they live under supervision in government.

My proposal is to have interns taken for three years and after three years, they should be given a three-year contract. What does that mean? That means the unions in this country must also wake up to the reality that there are very minimal employment opportunities currently existing.

It would, therefore, be profitable for this country to make sure that we are able to take these interns to the next level by giving them contracts. They must be ready. We must change the employment model we have in the country. We are not going to stick to permanent and pensionable when it is not a reality. What is the point of sticking to permanent and pensionable when in a year public service can only recruit 5,000 people? We should now move to the contract.

As a measure on that, so that we are able to achieve it, we should freeze employment in public service and state departments and parastatals and provide the subsequent accruing funds for internship and make it possible for these people to get a chance.

We must also realise that the current PSC of Kenya does not reflect the face of Kenya. This internship is an opportunity to make sure we set aside 150,000 slots for the marginalised and bring them up to speed and make sure we have a sufficient workforce from all the communities in the country. There will be no other opportunity. This internship will provide that opportunity.

The question people will ask is where the money will come from. I have proposed to Sen. Cherarkey that we must consider a cut in the money we are spending on roads. There is no need to do a tarmac for everybody to go to--- This is so that we have these interns.

There is money lying somewhere and some banks have been enjoying this money quietly for a while. This is money accruing from unclaimed assets. As we speak today, that money is close to Kshs30 billion. Some banks somewhere are just enjoying interest rates. That is a free customer who has given you Kshs30 billion. We could utilise that Kshs30 billion on internship programmes.

The Government can always budget Ksh2 billion or Kshs3 billion to pay the assets that people claim. However, this has accrued over time. We are asking the President of the Republic of Kenya to change from subsidising consumption to subsidising production. That is how interns are going to be supported and that is how this country is going to move forward.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir and thank you very much, Sen. Cherarkey.

Sen. Cherarkey, now reply.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, for this opportunity. I want to thank you and many colleagues whom I will mention. However, let me make the following observation.

First, I want to thank colleagues who have taken their time. The issue of youth unemployment is a ticking time bomb. I have noticed that most Kenyans or most people do not understand that young people are segregated into two or three groups. One, there are young people who are graduates and looking for jobs. There are young people who are in the boda boda sector or the informal sector who are doing businesses and agriculture. There is a final group of youth who are still school-going youth, who want bursary and support.

The same energy we use to organise empowerment programmes for the young people in the boda boda sector and other sectors to start up their businesses is the same

energy we must use to give opportunities to many young people who are graduates. Therefore, I agree that the role of the PSC should be extended to county governments and the private sector. I want to appeal to the Government that any private sector that is ready to take interns, in this republic, should be given tax incentives or tax exemptions for them to pay young people in internship.

I believe that Kshs15,000 or Kshs25,000 to the PSC interns is not sufficient. We must live within the economic realities and ensure that the young people earn from Kshs50,000 and above. I agree they must be provided with a transport subsidy. We must also consider providing digital tools to the interns. We must also consider giving them health insurance, especially enrolling them in the Social Health Authority (SHA) programme.

We must also ensure that there are mechanisms or incentives for protecting patents to innovations that are done by interns. When these interns are working, they sometimes do innovations that must be protected by the intellectual property law of this Republic.

I am aware there is also consideration of leave and off days, and even maternity or paternity leave, because the fact that they are interns does not deny them their labour rights as part of Article 41 of the Constitution of the Republic of Kenya.

I have noted that the government has really tried, even with the introduction of Kazi Majuu; the introduction of the NYOTA Programme; and the introduction of the Hustler Fund, to try and provide opportunities to many young people. However, this one does not capture graduates. We are targeting graduates for them to have an opportunity; whether they are graduates of a certificate, diploma, or even a degree programme. All must be allowed.

We must audit how many young people have been employed under the PSC. Sadly, the distribution of internship slots is not uniform in the country. We must push for equality and equity and ensure every ward in the Republic of Kenya is given a slot under the PSC, county government or the private sector.

It is sad and I want to inform the House that out of 250,000 graduates, the PSC only takes 9,000 interns. That is less than 10 per cent of the 250,000 graduates that we have.

I agree with the youths under the National Youth Service (NYS). They assisted us and I want to thank the NYS. Whenever we have problems, during big functions; like when we were receiving Baba Raila Amolo Odinga’s remains here in Parliament, in Kasarani, in Nyayo Stadium, in Bondo, in Kondele, and at the Jomo Kenyatta Stadium in Kisumu, most of the workforce support was from the NYS.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to call upon the Ministry of Interior and Coordination of National Government to ensure that anyone who has gone through NYS is transitioned to the police paramilitary training or the Kenya Defence Forces (KDF), so that we do not lose these young people who are trained.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, finally, I want to acknowledge the messages from the Junior Secondary School (JSS) interns. We have heard you. You do not need to spam our phones with SMSs. The 20,000 JSS interns will be confirmed by January 2026, as per the presidential directive. I am aware they are paid a mere Kshs17,000 per month. I received

an SMS from a JSS intern in Nairobi, a teacher, saying that amount cannot sustain a family or even cover basic needs like uniforms and clothes.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, please add me 30 seconds to conclude.

You have two more minutes.

Thank you. The JSS intern, I know there are many in Meru County and all over the country, told me that they cannot even afford to buy clothes. When they go to class, their students tell them; “Mwalimu umerudia nguo ya jana.” This is a sad reality. Some are even losing spouses to older men and sponsors in the city since the Kshs17,000 cannot sustain their livelihood.

I thank the following Senators. I know that Parliament does not exist in vain. I thank Sen. Okenyuri, Sen. Eddy Oketch, Sen. Karen Nyamu, Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, Sen. Osotsi, Sen. Hamida Kibwana, Sen. Methu, the Senate Majority Leader, Sen. Cheruiyot; Sen. Sifuna, Sen. Wambua, Sen. Abass, Sen. Maanzo, Sen. Wakwabubi, Sen. Korir, Sen. Mumma, Sen. Mandago, Sen. Lemaletian Hezena, Sen. Ledama, Sen. Wakoli, Sen. Tabitha Karanja; and, Sen. Gataya Mo Fire for the invaluable support.

I assure the interns that Parliament will stand with you to ensure you are confirmed to permanent and pensionable terms.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.66 (3) , I request that the putting of the question be deferred to a later date at the convenience of the House.

I thank you.

Thank you. Your request is granted.

Next Order.

Can the Senator sit down, please? Take your seats.

I do not see the Chairman for Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources. That is deferred.

Next Order.

That is deferred. I do not see the Chairman for Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources. Next Order.

That is deferred. The Chairman for Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources is not here. Next Order.

I do not see the Chairperson, Standing Committee on National Cohesion, Equal Opportunity and Regional Integration. That is deferred. Next Order.

That is deferred. The Chairperson, National Cohesion, Equal Opportunity and Regional Integration is not here Next Order.

The Mover, the Senate Majority Leader, is not here. That is deferred. Next Order.

Sen. Mwaruma is not here. That is deferred. Next Order.

Sen. Seki is not here. That is deferred.

Next Order.

The Deputy Speaker is not here. That is deferred.

Hon. Senators, there being no other business on the Order Paper, the Senate stands adjourned until tomorrow, Wednesday, 5th November, 2025 at 9.30 a.m.

The Senate rose at 5.33 p.m.