Senate Hansard: Thursday, 1st October, 2026 - Afternoon Sitting

Clerk, do we have quorum? (The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted with the Deputy Speaker) Serjeant-at-Arms, kindly ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) (The Clerk-at-the Table consulted with the Deputy Speaker) Clerk, if we have Quorum, you can call the first Order.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. In the same spirit, I take this opportunity to welcome the First Deputy Speaker of the Parliament of Ukraine, the Ambassador of Ukraine and the delegation accompanying you. We had a very good engagement this afternoon where we underscored that such interactions bridge gaps, encourage peaceful discussions between our Parliaments and assist us in exploring how to address various gaps through legislation.

In the same spirit, we extend our sincere and heartfelt condolences to the families who have lost their loved ones during the war. We pray that the war will come to an end. We look forward to more bilateral discussions through our Ministry of Foreign and Diaspora Affairs. We assure you that our doors remain open for further discussions. You are in a most beautiful city. This is the only city with a national park within it. We encourage you to enjoy the nature that we pride ourselves in, especially the Big Five.

Thank you and feel welcome.

Next Order. (Sen. Kavindu Muthama stood up in her place) Order, Sen. Kavindu.

Hon. Senators, Pursuant to Standing Order No.236(2)(b), I hereby report a Petition by Mr. Eliud O. Barasa concerning governance failures, financial irregularities, administrative mismanagement and systemic challenges facing VTCs in Vihiga County.

Hon. Senators, as you are aware, Article 119(1) of the Constitution states, and I quote-

“Every person has a right to petition Parliament to consider any matter within its authority, including to enact, amend or repeal any legislation.”

The salient issues raised in the Petition are as follows–

Hon. Senators, we move to Statements under Standing Order No.53(1). We start with the Senator for Embu County, Sen. Alexander Munyi Mundigi.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53(1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing on a matter of inter-county concern regarding the persistent traffic congestion at the Eastern Bypass-Thika Road Interchange in Ruiru.

The Eastern Bypass is a key component of the national road network, providing a critical link to motorists within the national metropolitan area and connecting Mombasa Road to Kiambu and other counties in the Central Kenya Region. However, persistent traffic congestion at the Eastern Bypass-Thika Road interchange in Ruiru has significantly impacted the smooth flow of traffic and increased travel time and fuel costs for motorists using the route.

In the Statement, the committee should address the following-

Hon. Senators, let me make these two brief Communications, then we proceed with the Statements. (Interruption of Statements)

Hon. Senators, this is a visiting delegation of teachers and students from Ruby Craft Adventist School in Homa Bay County.

Hon. Senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence of a visiting delegation of 10 teachers and 149 students from Ruby Craft Adventist School in Homa Bay County who are sitting in the public gallery. The delegation is visiting the Senate for an academic exposition.

On behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I extend a warm welcome to the delegation and wish them a fruitful visit.

Thank you.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity to welcome the visiting delegates from Homa Bay County. I recognise and appreciate the teachers. All of us are here because of the work of teachers. Teachers should know that they are highly considered and appreciated in this country. Along with the students that have accompanied you, feel appreciated and welcome to the Senate. We hope that the students that are here will live to the expectations of your school and the expectations of Homa Bay County as a whole. Always know that Homa Bay is a county of endless potentials.

We wish you well in your stay in the city, and come again given another chance. Thank you.

Let me also give one minute to your neighbour, the Senator for Kisii County, Sen. Onyonka.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I wanted to reiterate what Her Excellency, the Senator from Homa Bay County has said that, if you look at the students who have come, they are ladies. I encourage them that they can see if they are good enough and work hard in school, they will just come to this House. I also welcome you; ensure that you work very hard, so that you will be the leaders of tomorrow.

Thank you.

Yes, Sen. Seki.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also join you in welcoming the students from Kajiado County, Kitengela International School. This is a school that I am very dear to. Two of my children went through the school; one son finished in 2014 and the other one in 2021. I wish to tell the school administration, the teachers and the students that this is a very great school in our county.

In terms of performance, the school performs very well. One of my sons performed very well and went to Alliance High School while the girl went to Mary Hill. Thereafter, one is pursuing a degree at the United States International University (USIU) while the other one has completed his university studies and is now working as a consultant at SUNY.

You are in a great school and we look forward to seeing you also performing well just like your colleagues. We wish to see you coming here and be great people of this country. Teachers, thank you very much for the good work of producing good results in our county.

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for this great time.

Thank you, Itungati Seki. I also confirm that it is a good school. My daughter also went to Kitengela International School. (Sen. Maanzo spoke off record) Who is asking the name? Sen. Maanzo?

It is a good school. I appreciate that they are really shaping our sons and daughters in a very good way. All the best to the Kitengela International School and also the pupils from Homa Bay Adventist School. (Resumption of Statements) Next is a Statement from Sen. Essy Okenyuri.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53(1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Agriculture, Livestock

The Statement for Sen. James Lomenen is deferred. He approached me requesting to read the Statement next week.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have two Statements.

I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53(1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Health on a matter of county-wide concern regarding the increasing menace of stray dogs and the risk of rabies attacks on residents of Syokimau, Machakos County.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on Tuesday, 25th August, 2026, a young man pushing a motorcycle along Katani Road between the Veteran Hospital and Be Energy Petrol Station was attacked and bitten by a pack of three stray dogs, sustaining injuries and requiring hospital treatment, including anti-rabies vaccines. The incident highlights the

Go ahead.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53(1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Roads, Transportation and Housing on a matter of inter-county concern regarding the persistent traffic congestion and road safety challenges occasioned by the current layout and operations of the Kenya National Highways Authority (KeNHA) weighbridge and exit at Mlolongo along Mombasa Road.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the current arrangement has resulted in heavy commercial trucks merging with ordinary traffic while Public Service Vehicles (PSVs) stop near the exit points to pick and drop off passengers. Inadequate signage, abrupt lane changes and weak traffic management have worsened the situation, particularly during morning peak hours, causing significant delays and increased road safety risks for commuters travelling between Nairobi, Mlolongo and Kitengela.

In the Statement, the committee should address the following-

Very well. The Statement by Sen. Samson Cherarkey is dropped.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, pursuant to Standing Order No.57(1), I hereby present the business for the week commencing 6th October, 2026. The status of legislative business is as follows-

Very well. Are these Senators interested in making brief comments or they are queuing for Order No. 8?

Sen. Maanzo, what is your interest in this queue?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, owing to the urgency on business No.8, I thought it would be important we conclude with it, bearing in mind that it was adjourned yesterday for lack of quorum.

Are you suggesting that we go to business under Order No.8, then we come back to those who want to make comments on the Statements?

Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I saw Hon. Wakili Sigei in the House. I moved the Motion, so I could probably reply on his behalf.

This Motion is open for debate. The Senate Majority Leader laughed when you said there is urgency with Order No.8. I do not know why he was laughing. Could he be wondering why there is urgency on this matter? Anyway, let us go to resumption of debate under Order No.8. Sen. Kavindu Muthama had a balance of 16 minutes. Clerk, read out the order.

Sen. Osotsi, do you have a point of order or you need clarification? What is out of order? Nobody is debating and nothing is happening.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Senate Majority Leader has raised a very important issue in his report. He has said that we passed a law that was to give the county assemblies autonomy. Yours truly was the sponsor of that Bill. The President assented that Bill but the National Treasury has not implemented it. I request that we ventilate on this is matter before we move to the next agenda.

I was the sponsor, but not the sponyo, is that so?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, what Sen. Osotsi is inviting you to do is something very important. The House does not speak in vain and we are not a stoic creation of the Constitution. We are alive to the challenges that our constituents and the people that we represent are going through in this House.

I have raised a very important matter and what Sen. Osotsi is asking you to do is that perhaps you need to provide guidance, either through the Committee or our colleagues can say one or two things about that issue. From that, we can get to know what is happening from their experiences. Traditionally, the Speaker has no eyes or ears. The Speaker has to be moved. Sen. Osotsi is therefore moving you, as the Speaker, to guide Sen. (Dr.) (Capt.) Ali Roba and provide direction on a very important matter.

Our county assemblies are suffering. They have been left wondering of what more needs to be done. The law has been passed, assented to yet Cabinet Secretary, Hon. Mbadi, has delayed implementing a very important exercise.

Sen. Maanzo had requested me to make some determination. That is why I had guided that we first look at Order No. 8, then we come back to comments on Statements.

The Chairperson of the Committee on Finance and Budget, Sen. (Dr.) (Capt.) Ali Roba, I do not know why you are being stormed like this from every side. Can you give a commitment on the matter raised by the Senate Majority Leader on the financial autonomy of county assemblies after the passage of the Public Finance Management (Amendment) Bill, 2025? What is happening?

Let me hear from the Senator of Vihiga County, then I will give you chance to give your commitment as a Committee.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is a very weighty matter. We spent hours processing that Bill. We went through every constitutional steps required to have the Bill passed. Most importantly, the President has also spoken about this matter and he

This ventilating should not take more than three minutes for any Member that I give a chance.

Proceed Sen Onyonka.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, thank you. Majority Leader, I am appreciative of the fact that this matter has been brought to this House again. I sit in the Committee on Finance and Budget and I am happy that my Chairperson is here. When this Bill was brought to the House, and I remember how passionate you are about it, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we were trying to cure something. That the capacity and capabilities of MCAs has been so emasculated because they are not able to operate. This happens even after they pass their budgets.

Governors use the the same narrative of the national Government that they do not have Exchequer releases even when this money is actually available in the County Revenue Fund ( CRF). I emphasise what exactly our colleagues have said here. Can we make sure that whatever we have done does not go to zero? I would like to ask my Chairperson, that his engagement should be, can we actually get the Cabinet Secretary to come to our committee, so that he can tell us why he thinks this law is unnecessary?

Because we have passed it, MCAs are not able to move. Some of the Speakers are not even able to pay their allowances. The only little bird which whispers to me sometimes is that many of these governors have actually spent the money that was sent to their accounts, which are supposed to be their county accounts. They are waiting for Exchequer releases to replenish which is why they are refusing to work with the law that we passed here.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also express my disappointment with the fact that this law cannot be actualised. The county assemblies, just as Parliament, need to have autonomy of spending and designing their activities. Are we saying that a Cabinet Secretary would not implement what Parliament has passed? Are we saying that there is somebody else above us that would refuse to implement a law that has been passed?

We have 47 county governments, just as we have the one national Government. We are reducing the county assemblies to a level where they have to depend on the county executives and they can only implement their activities at the whims of the county governors. It is unfortunate. I plead that we should not allow this to happen. Otherwise, the county assemblies will always be begging at the offices of the governors to actualise their oversight. That works against the separation of powers.

That is my comment and I am indeed very disappointed.

Thank you, Honourable Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is a very unfortunate situation because you were the mover of this Bill and it came under my committee and everybody was passionate about this.

The problem still exists as Sen. Ogola rightly said. County assemblies must become autonomous from the executive. They have failed to execute their oversight just because they are not resourced. At any one given time, when they question the executive, they are denied money. They cannot even say how much money they have. They do not even know how much they get. The Bill is there, it has passed here, and there is no reason to keep that money.

As rightly requested by one of my committee members, I will make a follow-up and ask the Cabinet Secretary for National Treasury and Eonomic Planning why those funds have not been released to the county directly. The new budget is almost coming up and we need all the county assemblies to be autonomous. The most important thing is that counties have failed to do oversight because they are not independent. That money actually should be released as fast as possible.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity to comment on this. I am really disappointed because MCAs are elected just as Senators and Members of the National Assembly but they have no say on what happens in the assemblies. If they do not sing the songs of the governors, then they cannot even implement anything in their wards.

If this law has been passed, I do not see why the National Treasury and Eonomic Planning cannot implement it. Are they reducing this House to zero and to nothing, that whatever laws we pass here are nothing and they cannot be implemented?

(Applause as Senator Wambua entered the Chamber donned in a sash) Congratulations for that. Let him be cheered.

Sen. Lenku Ole Kanar, please proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I also want to add my voice on this issue of county autonomy. This is coming at the right time. However, we need to say that we are disappointed. The National Assembly and the Senate pass a law, it gets assented to, then the Executive fails to implement the directives of the law. It is important that we give directions from your seat, that the Cabinet Secretary and the Principal Secretary (PS) of the National Treasury and Economic Planning to explain in writing or even come to this House and explain why this law has not been implemented.

County assemblies need to have that autonomy, be free, and have their allocation freed. They need to allocate their monies and funds, budgets and appropriate well. We thought it was necessary for them to come out of the trap of the county executives. The National Treasury and Economic Planning is having a problem in implementing the law. It is important that we summon the Principal Secretary and the Cabinet Secretary to this House and ensure that this implementation has been done to the letter, to the last point.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Sen. Nderitu John Kinyua, please proceed.

Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika, kwa kunipa fursa hii. Hatupitishi sheria tu kwa kuzipitisha. Ila, tunapitisha sheria ambazo zinapaswa kufuatwa. Ikiwa Seneti hii impetisha sheria kusema ya kwamba gatuzi zetu, hasa mabunge ya kaunti yawe huru kutokana na gavana, inapaswa kufuatiliwa. Inapaswa kufuatiliwa na wizara zote ama mtu yeyote kwa sababu sheria ni kama msumeno unaokata pande zote mbili. Kamati ya Seneti ya Fedha na Bajeti ambayo inaongozwa na Sen. (Dr.) (Capt.) Ali Roba, imekuwa ikiongeza hela wakati gatuzi zetu zinakuja na kutuambia kwamba hizo hela hazitoshi, hasa za wabunge wetu wa kaunti. The National Treasury inapaswa kuwa inafuatilia.

Kwa hivyo, ningetaka kupendekeza, kwa sababu una uwezo kisheria kuamuru Waziri wa Hazina ya Kitaifa na Mipangilio ya Uchumi awache kuzembea katika kazi yake, kwa sababu tayari tumepitisha sheria. Sisi tumefanya kazi yetu. Wizara ambayo inahusika ndiyo inafaa kuwajibika na kufanya kazi yake kwa sababu, hawa Members of County Assembly (MCAs) wanabaki wakifuata gavana kwa sababu hawana uwezo, ila sisi tulitaka kuwapa uhuru ili wajitegemee.

Nashukuru kwa kunipa fursa hii.

Next is Sen. Wambua Enoch Kiio, Chief of the Burning Spear (CBS). Congratulations for the award.

I thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I would like to also thank my colleagues as well for applauding me for wearing this Order.

For the avoidance of doubt, because I can see Sen. (Dr.) Ali is wondering why I am wearing this and he is not, this recognition came way back in the year 2022. However, this is the day that I got the instruments. This award is not just spoken about, it is demonstrated; a demonstration that we have this title. I thank the leadership of the House, led by your office, the Office of the Speaker, for nominating me for this award. I thank you and God bless you.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to say two or three things about the autonomy of the county assemblies. I keep saying that the same article of the Constitution, the same sentence that establishes county executives is the same article of the Constitution in the same sentence that establishes county assemblies. The Constitution is very clear that there shall be county governments and the two arms of the county governments will be the executive and the assemblies. None of this is superior to the other. So, when we speak about the autonomy of the county assemblies, we should never speak about the autonomy of the county assemblies in reference to the autonomy of the county executives because none of them is superior to the other.

That is the same argument that I have been trying to get the Chairperson of the Senate Standing Committee on Finance and Budget, Sen. (Dr.) (Capt.) Ali Roba, to appreciate; that, you can never tell Kenyans that the national Government is allocating money to county governments. That can never happen. It is the work of Parliament to allocate monies to both levels of government, the national Government and the county governments.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this Senate and the National Assembly should never legislate in vain. The minute we begin to create an impression that there are resolutions or laws that we can pass here, and then leave it to the discretion of somebody in an executive office to decide whether to implement or not to, that is the time that, if we get there, then Parliament should just shut down and go home.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, you remember, and I am happy that you are here seated on the Chair today, and Sen. Kinyua is here, we have fought, even in this House, for a resolution to pay. (Sen. Wambua’s microphone was switched off)

Were you not aware that the maximum is three minutes?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I was not aware of that.

Give him one minute to conclude his thoughts. When I heard you say you have three things to say, I wondered how you would do that in under three minutes.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am sorry, I was not aware.

You have one more minute, please.

Thank you. We passed a resolution in this House on the one-off payment to former councillors. That is a matter that was canvassed seriously by this Senate. We passed that resolution. The National Assembly, led by now the person who is the Head of the National Treasury today, pushed the same agenda and passed it. However, he has refused to implement that. I would like to call upon you to use the authority vested in you by the Constitution of this country, to demand that whatever resolution is passed by this House, whatever law is passed and assented to by the President, must be implemented. There is no discretion. I mean, these are decisions taken by the House and they must be implemented.

I thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Next is Sen. Dullo Adan Fatuma.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to join my colleagues in contributing to this crucial matter. Over the years, we have had the Committee on Implementation taking up matters that were resolved by this House. I do not know why Senators did not follow up on that decision of having an Implementation Committee. If we had one, these matters should have been moved to conclusion.

Moving to the issue of independence of county assemblies, for devolution to work, county assemblies must be independent. I do not want to impute improper motives but I know governors do not want county assemblies to be independent because they still want to micromanage them and do not want to be oversighted. Currently, in some counties, their money is misused by governors because some Speakers are appointed by governors. If we are serious as a House and also as a country as far as the independence of county assemblies is concerned---

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, some MCAs do not even get salaries while some do not get their milleage allowances. Something has to be done. Sen. (Dr.) (Capt.) Ali Roba and team should summon the Cabinet Secretary in charge of the National Treasury and Economic Planning, so that this decision is implemented.

I thank you.

Next is Sen. Wakili Hillary Kiprotich Sigei, Senior Counsel.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am not yet there but I am on track to getting the coronation. However, on the flipside, I also got the award earlier. We just do not want to compete with Sen. Wambua by donning the attire and insignia that we got in the morning. Therefore, there is no harm if you congratulate me on that aspect.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me add my voice to this particular conversation that is going on.

We pass laws and those who are supposed to implement them have got no choice. The fact that this House has legislated particularly on an issue that affects devolution like this one, the Cabinet Secretary does not have a choice on whether to implement the provisions of that law or not. I believe there is more than just the delay in implementation because of what we would look at.

I want to pick the words used by Sen. Dullo that the control of county assemblies is by certain governors in order to make sure that they run assemblies under instructions

You have 30 seconds to conclude.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, just to complete the statement that if we create the impression that this House can pass laws but a Cabinet Secretary sitting in some high tower office decides not to implement because of selfish interests or simply decides not to implement, we will be creating anarchy in the country and there will be a complete breakdown of the rule of law. The only time that a law can be stopped from being operationalised is when there is a decision or pronouncement from a court of law to the effect that that law is either in vain or was not properly enacted. Otherwise once a law is passed, it must be implemented.

I thank you.

Fair enough. Before I allow Sen. (Dr.) (Capt.) Ali Roba to make his commitment and give a way forward as the Chairperson, let me say this. You are aware that I was the sponsor of this Bill and I witnessed it being assented to by the President on 13th August, 2025, during the Devolution Conference in Homa Bay. It is now one year and two months since.

In the last financial year, they said they will wait for the new Financial Year 2026/2027, so that they align their budgets properly in order to give county assemblies that autonomy. As Members have said, these and many other resolutions made by this House should be followed up by Chairpersons of committees in the absence of an implementation committee.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Senate of the Republic of Kenya did its due responsibility of making sure that the Bill was duly processed. All stakeholders were engaged and the Bill was passed and assented to. Now it is an Act of Parliament. The onus is upon Cabinet Secretaries and State Departments involved to make sure that once an Act of Parliament comes into being, they are supposed to do what they are required to.

I do not wish to politicise this issue but it is important for me to say exactly as it ought to be said. The President of the Republic of Kenya has made pronouncements and commitments on camera several times on issues of autonomy of county assemblies. A Bill was initiated, went through the due process and became law. However, you will find a Cabinet Secretary in the same Government, who has been hearing the President of the Republic of Kenya making a commitment to county assemblies and the nation, but does not pick up the issue and in time to make sure that it is implemented. Is it safe to say that some members of the Executive are failing the President?

When Cabinet Secretaries ignore laws that have an angle to a presidential directive or commitment and laws are not implemented to the letter, that failure makes the Government look bad and that is what is happening right now.

I was fortunate enough to have served as a governor for two terms. Allow me to say this. Sincerely speaking, take the example of my county and Mandera County Assembly. The 10 years that I was the Governor, Mandera County Assembly's activities were discussed from Nairobi to Mandera in every sitting because the County Assembly was vibrant in putting checks and balances on the executive and making sure that everything they did was known. The opaqueness with which some county assemblies, including mine and the county governments are operating in right now is so much such that the role of county assemblies has been forgotten in the eyes of the public. This leaves a lot to be said in terms of the governance of the counties because the vibrancy of the county assemblies is what brings out the functional responsibilities of the executive in terms of what the county assemblies do.

As to whether the county assemblies have gone to bed with the executive or whether the executive is exerting pressure on the basis that they hold the purse, necessitating the autonomy of the county assemblies and the Bill that was passed to be effected as expeditiously as possible; sincerely speaking - and saying this from my heart as a person who was part of the family that started devolution and also being the first lot of governors; what I see is the slow death of devolution and the local oversight at the grassroots level of county assemblies. This is as a result of weak institutions and the fact that they are left at the mercy of the governors to make decisions.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as discussed by my colleague Senators in the House, I undertake as the Chairperson of the Senate Standing Committee on Finance and Budget, that I will call upon the Cabinet Secretary John Mbadi to explain to us why he was unable

As a matter of urgency, in the next two weeks, we should get results. Fourteen days are enough. This is a top urgent matter in this Senate because we have spent almost 50 minutes discussing about the failure of the Cabinet Secretary to implement a decision of this House.

I also task the Senate Majority Leader in this matter, so that you can touch buttons. You will coordinate the Senate and the Executive. You work with him so that this can be implemented. (Several hon. Senators spoke off record) No, this is not the animal kingdom, it is leadership. He is the Leader of the Majority Side.

Next Order.

Majority Leader, you can proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. This is a very important exercise that we are doing concerning the constitution of the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC), a very important institution in the operations of this Parliament. I am glad that today as we speak, our commissioners have found time to be in the House. I do not know whether it is because of the closure of the Strait of Hormuz because it is rare to find them here. Nonetheless, I appreciate that Sen. Omogeni is in the House. Sen. Joyce Korir, the Vice-Chairperson of the Commission was here. Maybe she is in the Members Lounge because this is an important conversation we are having.

We are coming to the penultimate days of this session of Parliament and we are filling this position to represent us, our interests and our challenges. The PSC is a very important creature. Unfortunately, the way the drafters of our Constitution designed it disenfranchises us, the Senate.

Number one, by making the Chairperson to be the Speaker of the National Assembly and ensuring that the Speaker of the counterpart House, the Senate, is not a member of that body, the drafters of this Constitution did us a good one. This is because, the only other representative of this House apart from our Members if you were to look at it from the technical level is our Clerk but our Clerk is staff. Even when they sit in that meeting - and I say this from experience because I have served in the Commission - he sits there as a member of staff and there are certain things he cannot say on behalf of the House. He, therefore, has to rely on the wisdom of the voice of the representatives from the House of the Senate.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, structurally again, we are equally under-represented. Over the last three sessions of the PSC, the Senate by standard has three Members while the National Assembly has four out of the seven. That leaves us in a very precarious position because when it comes to aligning matters in the Commission between the two Houses, one of the Houses is underrepresented. Remember, the Chairperson is a voting member. The Clerk does not vote. He is only a secretary. When there are issues, the presiding person who is the Chairperson will only see things from the perspective of the National Assembly.

Therefore, out of the other representatives, the Senate is left with three out of five for a start. It is only these two Members and this is what I am driving at with this point, the male and the female representative of members of the public, who sometimes stand in the gap and try to assist institutions such as the Senate. However, Sen. Osotsi, we have never had these interviews to the point where we succeed to nominate a Senator. Most of the times, all the representatives are former Members of the National Assembly.

Yes, Senior Counsel, has he agreed that you inform him? Proceed then.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, my predecessor is doing well, the Senator for Kericho. I wanted to inform you, because this is a House of record, that we have one non-Member of Parliament Commissioner who is a former Senator, Hon. Muthama. I wanted you to bear that in mind. I heard you submit that this House has never nominated a former Senator as a Member. I just wanted that to be on record.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, while that is important information, you must note that Sen. Muthama served longer in the National Assembly than he did in the Senate. So, even in terms of purity of Senatorial duties, we are yet to achieve that. That is what I was trying to drive at.

Even next term, those of you who are interested in coming back to this House, when you get an opportunity by God's grace, you must push at your coalition level, both on the Majority and Minority sides that the representatives to the Parliamentary Service Commission should be switched. That three Members come from the National Assembly and four from the Senate because there is nothing wrong with that.

The other matter I wish to speak to is the work that our Parliamentary Service Commission continues to do. I have not had an opportunity to listen to what other Members have said about this institution and the work they are doing. However, I wish to remind Sen. Omogeni that before you complete your term, you must ensure, because that is your duty, that you complete the Centre for Parliamentary Studies and Training (CPST) and the Members' Facilities Centre that is in Karen.

All of us in Parliament are future former Members. We just do not know when we will become former Members, but one day, you will be a former Member of Parliament, so long as you have served in this House. We created that institution, so that there is a place where Members can interact with their colleagues in a decent environment where they will be respected.

I am sure you have seen the kind of humiliation some of our former colleagues go through when they try to interact with Members and sit in the Members' Lounge. Sometimes they are chased and made to sit on old and rickety chairs next to the toilet in Parliament. We decided to create an institution with a library where you can access some of the materials you produced when you were in this House. You can also read and undergo training, because it is a training institution. The qualification is that you have served as a Member of Parliament. It is a very important institution.

Sen. Omogeni, I do not know why it has taken you and the current Commission such an inordinately long time to complete that facility. It is extremely important and Members of Parliament need it. We do not have a very good job. Everyone imagines that Parliament is an institution of fat cats who are overfed and overpaid. Once you leave this House, you become an enemy of almost everyone yet those who serve here know the

Thank you, Sen. Cheruiyot. Sen. Eric Omogeni, you have the Floor.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you for giving me an opportunity to also contribute to the proposed appointment of Ms. Fatuma Ibrahim Ali. I read the report by the Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights (JLAHR).

First, I want to go on record as one of those Kenyans who appreciate the new Constitution and the fact that it gives an elaborate process for people to apply for jobs, be interviewed and get appointed on merit.

This lady who is before the Floor for consideration is somebody I consider to be walking on the paths of Professor Ali Mazrui. If you read the CV of Ms. Fatuma Ibrahim Ali, after her Form Four education in the old system, she never proceeded to Form Five or Form Six. With time, she worked her way to Egerton University, obtained a diploma, and then she proceeded to obtain a degree out of the country and subsequently got herself a Master's. So, for that effort, she deserves our accolade.

It should be a statement of encouragement to many people who sit for exams at all levels, and if they do not attain the high grades of As and Bs, they give up. This lady is a

Sen. (Dr.) Boni Khalwale, what is your point of order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise under Standing Order No.105. Did you hear a whole commissioner send the Senate Majority Leader to the President when we know that the Parliamentary Service Commission, where he works, is

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I always have tremendous respect for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, and I have always known doctors to be people who are keen listeners---

Just a moment, Senior Counsel. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, the Standing Order that you have cited, Standing Order No.105 actually puts you out of order. You did not listen to what the Senior Counsel was talking about.

In his submission, he never mentioned the budget. He did not mention the budget. On that point, you are out of order. (Sen. Cherarkey spoke off record) What is your point of order? (Sen. Cherarkey stood in his place)

Sit down, Sen. Cherarkey. Sit down.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

Point of order on who?

A point of clarification, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. Point of clarification.

Very well, proceed.

Mr. Speaker, you know Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is the encyclopaedia of this House because he has served for long. In line with Standing Order No.105. I listened to Senior Counsel, Sen. Okong’o Omogeni, Commissioner, saying that Sen. Aaron Cheruiyot or Aruna Telwa, because of closeness with the President, should whisper to him that the National Assembly gets four commissioners and the Senate should also get four.

In the Senate, we have three commissioners at the moment but the National Assembly has four. So, our only concern and I agree with Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, that we already have the Parliamentary Service Commission Act. We just need to amend the Act to increase the numbers. We do not need to disturb Sen. Telwa; he has a lot of issues to discuss.

Sen. Cherarkey, as you have put it-- -

Yes, Sen. Cheruiyot.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I can forgive my friend, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, because probably he did not get the gist of the argument that Sen. Omogeni was following. It had nothing to do with the budget and influence, Sen. Boni Khalwale. What Sen. Omogeni is arguing is distribution of the seats amongst the coalitions, which is something that is done at the political party level. That is why he was saying, at party leadership level, you can convince the party leader that this time, unlike in previous occasions where four members have always come from the National Assembly, we make sure that four members come from the Senate and three from the Assembly.

That is not undue influence, Sen. Khalwale and Sen. Cherarkey. On that account, I think they are being unfair to Commissioner Omogeni.

Thank you, Sen. Cheruiyot for making it clear. You just took the words out of my mouth; Sen. Cherarkey did not give me time to talk to Sen. Boni Khalwale.

Sen. Boni Khalwale, can you please apologise and withdraw?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, you can help me by telling me what you want me to apologise for and what it is that you want me to withdraw. I have never in my life heard of an apology being made on a point of order.

Standing Order No.105 speaks to the responsibility for the factuality of what a Member says. That is what I was interrogating, which I can merely disagree with. We have to be careful about the rulings we are starting to make because even the ruling you are going to make now on what you have told me, will set a precedent. That precedent can be used subsequently, that Members be apologising in that kind of manner. I am afraid you want to set a very dangerous precedent.

Very well, Sen. Boni Khalwale, I was giving you an opportunity to redeem yourself, which you have done by pointing out the obvious.

You should also have corrected Sen. Cherarkey. He is making a statement that we should amend the Parliamentary Services Act. Sen. Cherarkey is a lawyer; I like nurturing young lawyers, not correcting them. I do not know whether he has taken his licence for this year, but he is a lawyer. If he takes time--- (Sen. Cherarkey spoke off record) Can I continue?

Sen. Cherarkey, I have not given you an opportunity---

Sen. Okong’o Omogeni.

What has he said?

I am an advocate of the High Court of Justice and a member of the Supreme Court. He can check online on the Law Society of Kenya (LSK) portal---

Very well.

(Off record) ---young people must stop in this House, because you can be old but a fool.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we never refer to advocates as members of the Supreme Court, we normally say “advocates of the High Court of Kenya.” We must keep on nurturing Cherarkey, so that he can speak like a lawyer.

Secondly, I advise him to consider reading very carefully Article 127 of the Constitution. That is where the distribution of membership of the PSC between the two Houses is domiciled. Sen. Khalwale, that is the point I was making; that, in future, coalitions should consider allocating four slots to the Senate and three to the National Assembly under Article 127. I have not mentioned anything to do with the budget. I am very happy that Sen. Cherarkey is a good student; he has agreed with my interpretation of the Constitution.

The point I was really making is that this Constitution of ours introduced a new concept of meritocracy. Even judges of the High Court of Kenya, Courts of Appeal and the Supreme Court, including the Chief Justice, apply for their positions, get interviewed and are picked on merit.

Let us discourage some of the bad habits that we are seeing from some of our colleagues. I have seen people making pronouncements to the effect that teachers who should be recruited on a merit-based process get letters of appointment from us, politicians. Worse still, I have seen a Member of Parliament (MP) in our constituency parading newly graduated police officers saying he is the one who delivered letters to these officers. I mean, when I look---

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, point of order.

What point of order? Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, we must nurture this democracy of ours.

What is your point of order, Sen. Cherarkey.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise under Standing Order No.105 on Statement of Facts. Did you hear the distinguished Senator, Sen. Okong’o, who is a Senior Counsel, saying that there is an MP from his county who is parading recently graduated police officers and saying he hired them? He knows that under the National Police Service Act, the only people allowed to recruit competitively, the young

Yes, Sen. Sifuna. What is your point of order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.121(1), specifically Part (b) and (c), which speaks about knowingly raising false points of order and unnecessarily interrupting proceedings in a disruptive manner. We are coming to the end of the term of this Parliament and the Speakers in this House have never ever enforced this particular Standing Order.

Repeatedly, people targeting to interrupt other people's flow of thought and ideas are rising on frivolous false points of order. Please, put an end to this charade for the purposes of the respect of this House. I wish when the term of this Parliament comes to an end, we get a printout of the HANSARD and just see how it is possible that on every sitting day, only one Member has the eyes and ears to see when there is a point of order to be raised, that you can raise 10 points of order in a single sitting. What is so special about this one Member? He is disruptive and always trying to make sure that people do not make their points.

Allow Senior Counsel to make his presentation here; he will also get his opportunity. This culture where people just rise up every single day with 15 points of order should stop.

I have heard people calling us names. Now, I want to give him another name; he is the Mr. Point of Order of this House.

Sen. Roba, what is your point of order?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, thank you very much. I rise on Standing Order No.105. Sen. Sifuna has spoken, but I wish to reinstate what Sen. Cherarkey said.

He merely stood up on a point of order because the honourable Senior Counsel Omogeni made a statement saying that there are MPs, respectable leaders, who are dishing out Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC) appointments and who are dishing out letters of appointment to police recruits. It is very important that it is not considered a passing statement because it paints the leadership of both Houses in bad light. That is all that the Senator asked and that is in order.

I do not believe it is out of order. Probably, there are many other points of order that he may have raised that could raise questions, but on this one, I wish to request that Senior Counsel clarify.

Thank you.

Sen. Omogeni, can you clarify your statement?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I am very careful in the way I choose my words. I said that I have seen and read that some Members of Parliament are making statements that they have dished out Teachers Service Commission (TSC) letters. I did not say PSC; I said TSC and the police.

This information is in the public domain. I do not want to embarrass some of the senior leaders who have spoken about this.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, allow me to inform our good friend and Senior Counsel, former Chairman of the Law Society of Kenya (LSK), that proceeding under the provisions of Article 117 of the Constitution--- I am informing you that the Speaker of the National Assembly is one sitting Member of Parliament who actually said that he received letters for police officers and teachers and that he gave out those letters to Members of Parliament who he walks with. So, you are perfectly in order. Let the country see how the Government of Kenya is discriminating against other children by allowing children related to certain leaders to be the only ones having an opportunity to join the TSC and the Kenya Police Service.

Sen. Omogeni, do not take the route that Sen. Khalwale is advising you on. Just clarify your statement and proceed to conclude your submission.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, and Sen. Cherarkey, you know we are in a democratic Parliament. You must allow us to have a debate in this House. You do not dictate what we have to say. We are the people's representatives.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, there is a culture that is evolving where you want to build a Chinese wall around our views. You have to say what you have to say and we will say what we must say. That is how democracy works. (Sen. Cherarkey spoke off record) I speak for the people of Nyamira; I do not speak for the people of Nandi. You can speak for the people of Nandi. I speak for the people of Nyamira. We must learn that we are in a democracy. It does not mean that every day I come here, if I see Sen. Cherarkey speaking, I start yelling. It is childish; I will not do it. Listen to my views, when you have the opportunity---

Sen. Omogeni, let me direct you to go back to your submission and leave these issues out. So, make your submission now that you have clarified.

Proceed with your debate.

The only problem is that--- You also need to protect me from Sen. Cherarkey.

You are protected, so proceed.

Every time I am making a point, he keeps popping up like popcorn.

Proceed, Sen. Omogeni.

The point I am making is that, having passed this Constitution, it was the hope of Kenyans that opportunities would be accorded to Kenyans to apply for jobs, get a chance to be interviewed, and if you qualify and merit, you get the appointment. Not every Kenyan has a connection to a politician. Many people will never access a politician.

Those are the Kenyans who should be accorded an opportunity. When they see an advert, they should apply for a job, be interviewed and if they merit, they should be recruited. That is not only for TSC or for police officers, but also for the Public Service Commission. That is the spirit of our Constitution 2010.

I want to urge my colleagues, especially Sen. Cherarkey, to always know that your tenure on that side is five years. Things can change. You may find yourself on this side. (Sen. Cherarkey spoke off record) Do not swear. If you are a democrat, that is how you look at life.

You heard Sen. Cheruiyot telling you that at one point you will be a former Senator. That is the reality of life. So, when we are in this House, we want to fight for fairness, justice and democracy. That is why I am saying that this lady, Fatuma Ibrahim Ali, if she merits and I believe she does, let her get an opportunity to serve, not because she is connected to any powerful force, but because she has gone through a process that has given her an opportunity to serve the country.

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I will always salute the good work that the Judiciary does in this country. Sen. Cherarkey, whether you are a President, Cabinet Secretary, or a Senator, when your rights are infringed, there is nowhere you will run to other than the Judiciary. Even when retired President Uhuru Kenyatta found himself in trouble, he rushed to the Judiciary for protection of his fundamental rights. I agree with you that we should have mechanisms to check any abuses within the Judiciary. However, in any democracy, we should always support an independent, functioning Judiciary.

There is a mechanism. You may not agree with the mechanism that we have in the Constitution. Just as some Kenyans sometimes think we do good work, some think we do not do good work. So, I agree. Even you, as a citizen, may at times think the Judiciary does not do good work, at times it does good work. Remember, when you were sitting on the Opposition last time, and Sen. Mwaura was kicked out of this House, it was the Judiciary that brought him back to this House. Even you, Sen. Cherarkey, it is the Judiciary that rescued you. So, let us respect our institutions, especially the Judiciary.

You know some of those officers work and retire at 70. You will serve your five years and leave the Senate. When you go to court, you will find the same judges there. So, let us support those who are doing good work. If there are any rotten eggs, let us use the existing mechanisms to file our complaints with the Judicial Service Commission. They will be processed and action can be taken. However, we should not condemn the

Thank you, Senior Counsel. Proceed, Sen. Beth Syengo.

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. I rise to comment on the Report on the appointment of a non-member Commissioner to the PSC. I start by thanking and appreciating my party, ODM, for nominating Hon. Fatuma Ibrahim Ali to the PSC.

Allow me to thank my political party. I would also like to remind Kenyans of goodwill, members and supporters of the Orange Democratic Movement (ODM) that we are in October, the Baba month. During this month of October, we will be remembering and marking the anniversary of Hon. (Dr.) (Eng.) Raila Amollo Odinga. May his soul continue resting in peace. We will start by lighting candles at Uhuru Park and across the country to remember this great leader who rested.

This party is focused on empowering women. As the leader of the Women's League in ODM, I recommend Hon. Fatuma Ibrahim Ali. She is loyal, committed and has walked the talk when it comes to serving the party and Kenyans. She is an expert in gender mainstreaming. I am sure that in her position as a Commissioner, she will take care of the gender within the Parliamentary Service Commission (PSC).

She is also a good advocate of human rights. We have been complaining and suffering because we have always felt that we are not adequately represented in the PSC. I know that she will add a lot of value because she is an advocate of human rights. I highly recommend Hon. Fatuma. She is a former Member of Parliament, the pioneer Woman Representative of Wajir County where Sen. Abass comes from. They can bear me witness that during her tenure, she served with integrity and commitment. The people of Wajir still long for her leadership because she is a good leader.

A time like now, I feel proud to be a Kenyan because of what we witnessed yesterday, His Excellency Dr. William Samoei Ruto launching the Kenya oil refineries in Lamu. This refinery will create employment for people in this country. It will also improve the economy of this country. When the economy improves, women are happy because we can have money in our pockets, our children will get employment and our husbands will come home smiling because they have money. I am a proud Kenyan because we will have an oil refinery in this country.

On a point of order, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir.

What is your point of order, Sen. (Prof.) Ojienda?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I rise under Standing Order No.109 on a point of order. This Motion has been debated for two

Do you have a seconder, Sen. (Prof.) Ojienda? (An hon. Senator spoke off record) Very well. Can you go on record, Senator?

Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I do second Sen. (Prof.) Ojienda.

Senator, what is your point of procedure?

Surely, Hon. Temporary Speaker, Sir--- (Sen. Beth Syengo spoke off record) Just a minute, Sen. Beth Syengo. I beseech that you allow, especially the lady Senators, to speak on behalf of the women that they represent. I may no longer be in good books with my party, but this is the president of the Women’s League of the ODM. Sen. (Prof.) Ojienda found her in ODM and he should show some respect when the president of the Women’s League is submitting. We were all given an opportunity to speak on this matter, hence it is only fair that the president of the Women League--- (An hon. Senator spoke off record) Just a minute. It does not look very neat to interrupt the Senator mid-speech. (Several Senators spoke off record)

Order, Senators. Let us hear the Senator in silence.

I beseech that you let her conclude her remarks.

Sen. Sifuna, you stood on a point of procedure. There was nothing unprocedural in the way things were done. The point of order Sen. (Prof.) Ojienda stood on is in the Standing Order and once it has been read and seconded, it is my duty to put the question.

Okay, we are going to defeat that question, Hon. Temporary Speaker, Sir, because it is very unfair. We are debating a female nominee and it is the president of the Women’s League that is on the Floor, then a man stands up and cuts her short. This is the reason this Government is so unpopular with women.

I have to put the question. (Question that the Mover be now called

Thank you, Hon. Tempoary Speaker, Sir. I will start by appreciating all the colleagues who have commented on the candidate for the position of non-member Commissioner of the Parliamentary Service Commission. I appreciate them for the accolades and the support that they have given to the Motion.

I also appreciate those who have raised issues on the process of voting and I want to confirm that the approval hearing that was conducted by the Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights borrowed heavily from the interview process that was conducted by the Committee that was chaired by the Speaker of the National Assembly, none other than the Hon. Moses Wetangula, that approved the nomination of the Hon. Fatuma Ali.

I want to equally confirm that the approval hearing that was conducted by the Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights found it best to approve the nomination of the Hon. Fatuma for the position that we are about to vote on and approve.

The vetting process considered every aspect that the statute provided and we confirm that Hon. Fatuma Ali indeed fits the bill. Her qualifications are apt. The curriculum vitae produced before us was rich in terms of experience, the human rights aspect and public service that she has rendered. This is particularly considering that she is a former Member of Parliament representing an entire county. Out of her experience and good work, she was later on elected to represent the country in the EALA. There is no other candidate than Fatuma Ali who would fit into that position. I confirm that she is the right choice.

One of the very basic and important comments she made in answering the questions before the Committee, was a report tabled in this House, where quite a number of employees of the PSC were found, from an audit process, to have been devoid of relevant qualifications. As a Committee, we found that to be very profound because she had gone out of her way to establish the basis upon which that happened.

She was committing herself and committed to ensure that any other future recruitment process that will be conducted must comply with the law, so that we get the best personnel to serve this House and the National Assembly.

I without a doubt also support the approval of Hon. Fatuma Ali to the position of a member of the PSC.

I beg to reply.

Clerk, do we have quorum? (The Clerk-at-the Table consulted with the Temporary Speaker) Hon. Senators, I put the question. (Question put and agreed to)

Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir. The debate had concluded and mine is just to reply.

First, I equally would love to appreciate the honourable Senators who contributed to this Motion. Running through the Motion, the Petition by Mr. Laban Omusundi opened minds.

Listening to the debate, Members appreciated beyond just the nomination of MCAs. This House was entertained by serious conversations around the process of nomination, independence of political parties, the role of members who have been nominated, and the loyalty to the political parties that nominated them.

It was not confined to the time limit that Mr. Laban Omusundi had in his proposal sought to introduce in law. The country was, therefore, equally made to appreciate the fact that this House indeed has got commitments in terms of understanding representation at every level, whether it is from the county assembly where the Petition had been anchored or the National Assembly as well as the Senate.

The debate went to the extent of having an engagement on the role that we have, including giving advice to the members of this House. Quite a number of the nominated Members supported the initial proposal that for purposes of preparedness of members who have been nominated, they should be ready to serve for a single term, and thereafter, seek for an elective position.

Devoid of that, we would not have got an opportunity to understand and appreciate the fact that quite a number of our Members in this House, and those who sit in the “lower House”, appreciate the need also to ensure that for efficiency of membership in terms of representation at the Senate, National Assembly or the County Assembly, there is need to give opportunity for members to serve for more than one term.

The putting of the Question has so been deferred to the next Sitting. (Putting of the Question on the Motion deferred) Hon. Senators, looking at the Order Paper, we seem not to have the Chairpersons of the Committees for most of the Motions. We will, therefore, defer Order Nos.10 to 17.

It looks like we do not have numbers. Therefore, we shall also defer Orders Nos.18, to Order No. 25.

That brings us to the end of it. (Sen. Cherarkey stood in his place) Sen. Cherarkey, please, take your seat.