Margaret Kamar

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar Proceed, Sen. Kinyua.

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar Sen. (Prof.) Ongeri. June 21, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 26 Sen. (Prof.) Kamar now been revived. A number of things came to mind at that time and they touched on Petitions. I thank this House and the Committee on Roads and Transportation because they went ahead to deal...

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. I just wanted to respond to what Sen. Cheruiyot has raised which is very important. The provisions say that each parliamentary term has the opportunity to amend the Standing Orders. If you look at the timing, which he has really talked about,...

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar): Sen. (Prof.) Kamar):Clauses 25 THE SUGAR BILL (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY BILLS NO. 68 OF 2019)

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) : Yes, Madam Chairperson. I rise on a point of order, pursuant to Standing Order No. 148. I beg to move – THAT the Committee of the Whole do report progress on its consideration of the Sugar Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 68 of 2019) and seek...

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) : Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) : Madam Chairperson, I beg to move: THAT Clause 5 of the Bill be amended-

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 9 of the Bill be amended in paragraph (a) by deleting the words “growers and millers” appearing immediately after the words “or levies upon” and substituting therefor the words “value chain players”. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Chairperson ( Sen. (Prof.)...

Clauses 25

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) :47West Pokot 559,953,126- 114,909,62 - 10,538,600 11,000,00018,793,436 -70,759,700 - 226,001,356 Total32,343,890, 3,563,132, 1,999,970, 119,997,01 5,900,000, 667,000,00 517,000,00 775,134,77 825,000,00 1,199,810, 2,700,000, 5,433,000, 23,700,044, Division will be at the end. New Clause 5A June 16, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 46

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, the Bill be amended by inserting the following Clause 5A immediately after Clause 5- Equalization Fund. 5A. Additional allocations to the respective county government from the Equalization Fund for the financial year 2022/23 shall be as set out in the Third Schedule. (Question...

FIRST SCHEDULE FY 2021/22 FY 2022/23 June 16, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 47

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar): Sen. (Prof.) Kamar):The second one is The Sacco Societies (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bills No.55 of 2021).I put the question, which is, That Clause 2, Clause 3, Clause 4, Clause 5, Clause 6, Clause 7, Clause 8, Clause 9, the Title and Clause 1 be part of...

SECOND SCHEDULE June 16, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 49

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar): Sen. (Prof.) Kamar):

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar): Sen. (Prof.) Kamar):

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) :The Chairperson ( Mover, please proceed.

Madam Chairperson, I propose that the amendments be dropped. (Amendment withdrawn) The Title and Clause 1 (Question that the Title and Clause 1 be part of the Bill proposed) June 16, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 55

Hon. Senators, the next Bill is the Community Groups Registration Bill (National Assembly Bills No.20 of 2021) . Hon. Members we are now ready for Divisions. Can we Whips continue to whip Members to prepare to vote. The Senate Majority Leader, please approach the Chair. (Consultations) THE LANDLORD AND TENANT...

Hon. Chairperson, pursuant to Standing Order No.148 (1) , I beg to move that the Committee of the Whole do report progress on its consideration of the Landlord and Tenant Bill (National Assembly Bills No. 3 of 2021) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow.(Question proposed)(Question put and agreed to)The...

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) : Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said Report, and ask Sen. (Prof.) Ongeri to second.

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar

Sen. (Prof.) KamarCounty; Sen. Kibiru, Kirinyaga County; Sen. Madzayo, Kilifi County; Sen. (Dr.) Mbito, Trans Nzoia County; Sen. Moi, Baringo County; Sen. Mutula Kilonzo Jnr., Makueni County; Sen. Ndwiga, Embu County; Sen. Nyamunga, Kisumu County; Sen. (Dr.) Ochillo- Ayacko, Migori County; Sen. Olekina, Narok County; Sen. Omogeni, Nyamira County; Sen....

Mover.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said Report, and ask Sen. (Prof.) Ongeri to second.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I second. (Question proposed) (Question put and agreed to)

Mr. Speaker Sir, I beg to move that The Sustainable Waste management Bill, (National Assembly Bills No. 22 of 2021) be now read a Third Time. I request Sen. (Prof.) Ongeri to second.

I second.

I thought this was the Sacco Societies (Amendment) Bill?

We are done with The Sacco Societies (Amendment) Bill. (The Clerk-at-the Table consulted the Speaker) (Question proposed) I defer Division to another time. The next Bill is The County Government Additional Allocation Bill. June 16, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 71 THE COUNTY GOVERNMENT ADDITIONAL ALLOCATIONS BILL (SENATE BILLS NO.2 OF 2022)

Mover

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said Report, and ask Sen. (Prof.) Ongeri to second.

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to join you and all Senators in mourning the death of our third President, April 27, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 6 Sen. (Prof.) Kamar)One amazing thing that the late President Kibaki did is that...

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar): Sen. (Prof.) Kamar):

Sen. (Prof) Kamar

Sen. (Prof) Kamarprofessionals in their line. Same to KSL, which is used to train deaf children to grow to their maximum potential. However, interaction between our children is one thing that is extremely important.Madam Temporary Speaker, as we look at the rights of the learners with special needs, we need...

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I congratulate the sponsors of the Bill, Sen. (Dr.) Musuruve and my neighbour, Sen. (Prof.) Kamar. This is a very straight forward Bill. The reason for this Bill is found under Article 43 of the Constitution on Economic and Social Rights. The right to access...

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar): Sen. (Prof.) Kamar): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, Clause 4 of the Bill be amended- THE COUNTY GOVERNMENTS (AMENDMENT) BILL (SENATE BILLS NO. 38 OF 2021)

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, Clause 4 of the Bill be amended-

Sen. (Prof) Kamar) : Sen. (Prof) Kamar) :

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar): Hon. Senators, we shall now move to report to the House. Sen. Olekina is standing in for the Chairperson. Please start with the the Heritage and Museum Bill (Senate Bills No. 22 of 2021) . Division will be at the end. Clause 19The Chairperson ( Sen. (Prof.)...

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar): Sen. (Prof.) Kamar): Madam Deputy Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee on the said report. Sen. (Prof.) Ongeri I second. (Question Proposed) (Question put and agreed to)

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) : Madam Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, Clause 5 of the Bill be amended — Division will be at the end. Clause 5

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, Clause 5 of the Bill be amended —

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, Clause 6 of the Bill be amended—

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, Clause 7 of the Bill be amended—

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 9 and substituting therefore the following new clause— Standards, accreditation and procedures No.of

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that- THAT, Clause 10 of the Bill be amended by deleting subclause (1) and substituting therefor the following new subclause—

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, Clause 16 be amended in subclause (1) -

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT clause 17 of the Bill be amended—

Hon. Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following new clause immediately after clause 8— Development of action plan. 8A. (1) The Cabinet Secretary shall, in consultation with the National Council for Persons with Disabilities and the Council of Governors develop a Kenyan sign...

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 2 of the Bill be amended — THE COUNTY HALL OF FAME BILL (SENATE BILLS NO. 9 OF 2021) THE KENYA CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION (AMENDMENT) BILL (SENATE BILLS NO. 33 OF 2021)

Madam Chairperson, pursuant to Standing Order No.148, I beg to move that the Committee of the Whole do report progress on its consideration of the Kenya Sign Language Bill (Senate Bills No.5 of 2021) and seek leave to sit again tomorrow. (Question proposed) (Question put and agreed to) (The House...

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar Hoja ya nidhamu ni gani, Sen. Madzayo? (Laughter)

Hoja ya nidhamu ni gani, Sen. Madzayo?

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to support this Bill. I congratulate Sen. Kajwang for articulating the Bill very well. This is a Bill that was introduced to the House in the 11th Parliament but did not see the light of...

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) : Senator Kinyua? Senator there is a point of order from Sen. Kinyua.

Senator Kinyua?

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) : Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) : Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to inform him so that there can be clarity. In Laikipia County, we did not have the rogue NPRs. My Colleague has mentioned we went to Laikipia County. In fact, the people of Laikipia County were very...

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) : Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) :In the last Parliament, Sen. (Prof.) Lonyangapuo brought a Bill in this House and he wanted the police reservists to be recognized, adopted and paid some form of salary in order for them to do a good job. In fact, there are some...

Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to inform him so that there can be clarity. In Laikipia County, we did not have the rogue NPRs. My Colleague has mentioned we went to Laikipia County. In fact, the people of Laikipia County were very excited to see Sen. Wetangula. They were very...

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) : Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) :Thank you, Senator. Can we hear from Sen. (Eng.) Hargura? Is he online? He seems not to be online. Let us hear from Sen. (Rev.) Waqo.

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) : I know what he is going to say, Mr. Speaker. Sorry. He always says that, but since he is my Deputy Leader--- The Deputy Speaker (Sen.(Prof.) Kamar): Only that his Kiswahili is so tough sometimes we do not know how to respond. I can see a...

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) : Madam Deputy Speaker, Sen. Ngugi is in my Committee. I did not want to disrupt his train of thought, but it has been the tradition that when you are the beneficiary of a Motion you do not contribute to it. Sen. M. Kajwang‟ has a point...

Madam Deputy Speaker, Sen. Ngugi is in my Committee. I did not want to disrupt his train of thought, but it has been the tradition that when you are the beneficiary of a Motion you do not contribute to it. November 2, 2021 SENATE DEBATES

This Motion leaves Sen. Ngugi as having been placed in a Committee. I advise him and seek your indulgence that unless he wants to extricate himself from these committees where he is being proposed, he should allow other Members of the House to be the ones to discuss his suitability.It...

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I stand guided. I was speaking on behalf of the silent majority.

Sen. (Prof.) Kamar) : Sen. Cherargei. Sen. Cherargei, I hope you are not talking to yourself. That would be very worrying.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I think we need to give him some water. He might be thirsty. I believe it is time we tried to create forums in some of these committees. The changes that have been proposed by the SBC today are to replace some of our colleagues who have...

I persuade my colleagues that whenever we get such a Motion, we should all support it so that we can continue doing our jobs. In Parliament, we do our job both in plenary and committees.I support.

Sen. Cherargei.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I oppose this Motion for various reasons. One, you gave us a break two or three weeks ago and we had a kamukunji. We agreed on a draft reasoning and the kamukunji meeting was co-chaired by the Senate Majority Leader and the Senate Minority Leader. There was...

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.

There is a point of order from Sen. Dullo.

Madam Deputy Speaker, Sen. Cherargei has mentioned a Member of this House who has been mentioned in a security report and has been put in the Committee on National Security, Defense and Foreign Relations. I think it is important that he should give evidence because he is completely out of...

Thank you, Senator. However, it is not the Senator who says that someone is completely out of order. You ask whether somebody is in order, then we can gauge. Sen. Cherargei, it is true that you have made two statements that attracted the attention of Members. You do not really...

Madam Deputy Speaker, I was just trying to be honest. I think that the Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations had been properly populated. I think that Sen. M. Kajwang‟---

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. November 2, 2021 SENATE DEBATES

There is another point of order, from Sen. Farhiya.

Madam Deputy Speaker, Sen. Cherargei is affirming what he had said without a substantive Motion to discuss a Member. What Sen. Cherargei is insinuating is not right. He has done it again even after you tried to make things better for him.

Sen. Cherargei, the only way that you can confirm the truth is with evidence. That is what is required. You are a lawyer. Please stick to the debate of whether these Members can join these committees or not.

Madam Deputy Speaker, let me put it clearly. Somebody has said that some committees are not well populated. I remember that there was a Motion that was brought and Sen. M. Kajwang‟---

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.

There is another point of order from Sen. Dullo.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I think we have made a very clear intervention here. Can Sen. Cherargei provide evidence or withdraw a statement that he has made on the Floor of this House that there is a Member that has been implicated in a report on the security of Laikipia County?

Sen. Cherargei, are you ready to substantiate or will you withdraw?

Madam Deputy Speaker, there is a Member of the Committee on National Security, Defense and Foreign Relations. It is in the HANSARD. If you can give me time, I can retrieve it.

Not the HANSARD. Is there a report that is implicating?

Madam Deputy Speaker, it was made by a Member of the Committee on National Security, Defense and Foreign Relations. It is on record in the HANSARD.

What was made?

It had been mentioned that during their visit to Laikipia County, some of Members of this House---

Sen. Cherargei, I hope that you are not repeating what that Member said if it was just a mention. It means that both Members are really putting the House is disrepute. Is there evidence? You have to defend yourself.

Madam Deputy Speaker, for the interest of the House, I withdraw and reframe it.

Thank you very much.

Can I have my last minute?

You said that you have withdrawn and---

I want to make my final comment on---

No, you need to apologize because I can see that Sen. M. Kajwang‟ and Sen. Olekina are ready. November 2, 2021 SENATE DEBATES

Madam Deputy Speaker, what is happening? I am not getting why Members are ready. Over what?

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.

There is a point of order from Sen.

Madam Deputy Speaker, we need to be extremely careful with how we prosecute business in this House. Just a week or two back, it was mentioned on the Floor of this House that Sen. Cherargei wasted taxpayers‟ money by going to the United States of America (USA) to inspect Boeing...

Sen. M. Kajwang‟, he has withdrawn. According to our Standing Orders, what he has not done is apologize. (Sen. Cherargei spoke off record)

Sen. Cherargei, let us not go there.

Madam Deputy Speaker, it will be unfair for this to go on record. All foreign travel is approved by our office. Sen. M. Kajwang‟ just came back from the USA using taxpayers‟ money and he is yet to table any report. It means that he is casting aspersions to your...

Order, Sen. Cherargei.

Madam Deputy Speaker is he casting aspersion on your office, because both local and international trips are approved by your office? Does it mean that you do not have the capacity to approve some of the trips?

Sen. Cherargei, let us not divert.

Sen. M. Kajwang‟ must apologize.

Order, Sen. Cherargei. Do not take us away from the point under discussion. Since you have withdrawn, can you apologize so that we move on? We only have three minutes.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I apologized to the leadership and withdrew that part.

Thank you. Kindly conclude.

Madam Deputy Speaker, in conclusion, let us avoid being dishonest. When we had a Kamukunji, many resolutions were made. We agreed that Members who have specific interests should not be populated in committees that they November 2, 2021 SENATE DEBATES

have had adverse conflict of interest. My question is simple. Why is the leadership of this House, who are always absent, so interested in---

Sen. Cherargei, you are taking us back. You apologized and withdrew yet you are taking us back. We are not going to discuss the leadership of the House unless you will come up with evidence. If the leadership did not receive any evidence, then they do not have any reason...

Madam Deputy Speaker, I sat in that Kamukunji and you gave us a break---

Order, Sen. Cherargei. The

Madam Deputy Speaker, can I conclude?

Yes, you can.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I propose.

Proceed, Sen. Farhiya.

Madam Deputy Speaker, you should have made Sen. Cherargei withdraw again because he continued in the same line.

You are also going in that direction. I would like to caution you. Please contribute to the Motion.

Madam Deputy Speaker, one of the resolutions of the Kamukunji included the composition of the County Public Accounts and Investments Committee (CPAIC) . As you are aware, CPAIC is a sessional committee whose term ends on 2nd December, 2021. A new Committee will be constituted anyway. If there will be...

I beg to support this Motion and ask other Members to support.

Proceed, Sen. Nyamunga.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to add my comments to this Motion on the constitution of committees. I do not think that it is right for us to hold our committees at ransom making them unable to operate. We are here to serve the...

Sen, Cherargei, what is out of order?