Rose Nyamunga Ogendo

Sen. Nyamunga

Sen. Nyamunga

Sen. Nyamunga

Sen. Nyamunga Sen. Murkomen, proceed.

Sen. Nyamunga

Sen. NyamungaHon. Senators, I do not seem to see the Mover. The Order is deferred.

Hon. Senators, this matter does not affect counties so it will be voice vote. I proceed to put the question. (Question put and agreed to) Next Order. ADOPTION OF SPECIAL AUDIT REPORT ON UTILIZATION OF COVID-19 FUNDS BY 28 COUNTY GOVERNMENTS THAT the Senate adopts the Report of the Standing...

Hon. Senators, I do not seem to see the Mover. The Order is deferred. ADJOURNMENT

Hon. Senators, there being no other business on the Order Paper, the Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday, 3rd March, 2022 at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 5.23 p.m. March 02, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 40

Sen. Nyamunga Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for this opportunity to move this Bill. I beg to move that The County Resource Development Bill 2021 be read a second time. This is a Bill that has taken a very long time, since when I was elected to this House as...

Sen.Nyamunga Thank you, Mr Speaker, Sir, for giving me the opportunity. I would like to support the Statement by Sen. Khaniri on the diminishing interest on agriculture by the youth. I agree with the contribution by Sen. Sakaja. However, the most important thing is that Kenya is an agriculural country....

Sen. Nyamunga Thank you, Mr. Temporary Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity again. First, I want to say that, generally, I am an independent-minded person and I do not believe in dependency. That is what motivated me to come up with this Bill. I started working on this Bill...

Sen. Nyamunga He has to put them “on toes”. If he keeps giving them money all the time, how will they think outside the box and develop resources that they have? The President has to do that. Governors must be put on toes. All county employees must also be put...

Sen. NyamungaI support the Petition by Ms. Julia Andifu and urge the House to work on it speedily for the benefit of women who are suffering or may suffer from lack of the leave days. February 15, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 4 Sen. Nyamunga I support the Petition by Ms. Julia...

Sen. Omogeni, proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for giving me an opportunity to rise in support of this Petition. We must thank ourselves as Kenyans for having passed such a progressive Constitution in 2010, which gives Kenyans a right to Petition us on an important issue such as the one that has...

Sen. Kavindu Muthama, proceed.

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Madam Temporary Chairperson, then I support Sen. Murkomen’s amendment. I will speak on mine when time comes. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Since Sen. Sakaja is not in, proceed Sen. Cheruiyot. (There was a technical hitch) Sen. Cheruiyot: Madam Temporary Chairperson, I am...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, when you look at the definition of political parties and the import, considering the comments that were made by stakeholders, they agreed that political parties should have a distinct definition and character. Looking at how it is defined here, even a cooperative organization like Lelchego in Nandi...

Therefore, it should have distinct, independent and unique characteristics. They have tried to look at the import of Article 260 and requirements of a political party in Article 91 but this one does not in any way give---Madam Temporary Chairperson, if you look at the definition of a political party...

Sen. Murkomen. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT, Clause 2 of the Bill be amended–

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : What is out of order?

Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga):

Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga): Madam Temporary Chairperson, Sen. Cheruiyot is directly trying to impute on my conduct when he talks about the last general elections and issuance of nomination certificates. I was the Chairperson of the elections board at that time and I was the one issuing the certificates. I...

Sen. Cherargei. I pressed and you did not see that I had pressed. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Cherargei. I pressed and you did not see that I had pressed. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) :It will be a forced marriage of circumstances and it will shock people...

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) :The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga): Proceed, Sen. Murkomen. Please let us stick to the point and be brief because there are a lot of interests.

Sen. Nyamunga) : Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson. I know my friend, the Senator for Kericho County had mentioned that the president of CMD is here and should have supported amendments. However, as the president of CMD, I have brought specific verbatum proposals for my political parties as provided there-in....

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I come from Kericho County. Sen. Outa is my good neighbour and friend. The last time he was announced as the January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 30

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) :amendment. It is almost a question-and-answer session. But you know we are now in debate which was there during the Second Reading.In fact, I have realized that in this House, people do not use the Third Reading in the way that it should. So, you...

Sen. Nyamunga) : Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson. You know you are my good neighbour. Sen Wambua talked to me two minutes ago. He was trying to convince me to support his amendment. We were seated there. I do not know who called him but it was something written: “H...

Sen. Nyamunga) : Alternatively, we can move to the next amendment as a matter of procedure, then he will formally withdraw. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : It is never done that way. Sen. Cheruiyot, can we confine to the comments and the issue before us.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I will confine myself but this is actually the issue before us. Due to the wordings of Clause 2, political parties will be forced to adhere to certain standards, which are alien to them. January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 31

Sen. Nyamunga): I totally agree with you Madam Temporary Chairperson that as per the Standing Orders, the amendment is withdrawn if the Member who is moving the amendment is not here. What we are addressing is the move by Sen. Olekina purporting to withdraw an amendment on behalf of Sen....

Madam Temporary Chairperson, you noted Sen. Farhiya interrupted me when I was making my conclusion but I understand her. She can never understand some of these challenges that we are mentioning. She has said we either choose or not. A practising politician understands what a political party means. In certain...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, to come into a coalition is a choice of different parties. Therefore, if they do not want to be subjected to that rigorous process of joint nomination, then they should not join those parties. The law does not prevent individual parties contesting for presidential and other seats....

The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga): Madam Temporary Chairperson, little but not so much. If a Kenyan was to challenge this constitutionality of timeline for coalition agreements, they would succeed for two reasons. One, constitutionally, a political party should be able to come together anytime. In parliamentary system...

Sen. Nyamunga) : Madam Temporary Chairperson, for the umpteenth time I will repeat to my colleagues. Please, listen to good reason. It will help this law of yours in the fate that awaits it in the courts. I will give you a very clear example. Sen. Cherargei is trying to...

Sen. Nyamunga) : Madam Temporary Chairperson, I have listened to Sen. Murkomen. There is something still constitutional about it and I wish the promoters of this Bill would listen to good reasoning. I am sure if they had listened to Sen. Orengo’s advice they would not have had this provision....

Sen. Murkomen trying to - - -The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Murkomen trying to - - -The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga): I did not know Sen. Ngugi was still here, but your consultation was--- The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : What is your intervention, Sen. Ngugi?

Sen. Nyamunga) : On a point of order, Madam Temporary Chairperson. Sen. Murkomen used very wrong words; he said: “If I cared to listen”. How do we help such a man? It is his amendments we are trying to clean up then he is using not very friendly language on...

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) :mentioned? Be it even six or seven days as he is proposing. Then you present yourself, make a case, at least you are able to-even within the intervening time- push for mitigation of whatever they are proposing in certain quarters.Otherwise, if we make it immediate...

On a Point of Order Madam Temporary Chairperson. The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : You know I have not even given you the microphone. You can go ahead anyway.

January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 36

Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga):If you read this particular Bill, because the law should be read holistically, you do not just read one Section and then assume that, that Section will help you understand the Bill properly.Since the Bill of Rights has not been negated by this Bill, the governing legislation...

Sen. Nyamunga) : Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson. I would like Sen. Murkomen to convince me because Clause 11, which he seeks to amend says that the Registrar is then mandated under the proposed Section 14A (iv) to remove the name of the member from the register within seven days....

There is the procedure of withdrawing an amendment Madam Temporary Chairperson. The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) :kangaroo process and expel the members who are with the governor. If the governor runs to court and they move with the same speed, they will just expel them and the impeachment process...

No, Madam Temporary Chairperson. The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Look at the Standing Orders.

On a Point of Order Madam Temporary Chairperson. The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) :(Loud consultations) What is your Point of Order, Sen. Murkomen?

I totally agree with you Madam Temporary Chairperson that as per the Standing Orders, the amendment is withdrawn if the Member who is moving the amendment is not here. What we are addressing is the move by Sen. Olekina purporting to withdraw an amendment on behalf of Sen. Wambua because...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, Sen. Wambua is a very honourable man. He could have decided to follow the Standing Orders by absenting himself for purposes of this thing to be withdrawn honorably. However, the voice given by

Sen. Olekina gives a different impression. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Olekina gives a different impression. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : My question is: Why 30 days and not the last seven days of the coalition? It is a completely different matter. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga)...

Sen. Nyamunga) : On a point of order, Madam Temporary Chairperson. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : What is your point of order? Division will be at the end. Clause 9 January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 37

Sen. Nyamunga): Madam Temporary Chairperson, I want you to be firm on this. Is it in order for Sen. Shiyonga to insinuate that we should convert this very important Senate to be like Chwele Market, where people converse outside before coming to sell their produce? What we are doing here...

Thank you Madam Temporary Chairperson. I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 9. When you look at Section 10 (1) of the principal Act that is amended by inserting the words, “or a coalition of parties” immediately after the words “form a coalition”. The input...

Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson. Sen. Cherargei is making a very important point here, that there is this creation of a coalition political party. I had already proposed its definition be removed in the definition political party because I do not think it is a political party. However, we must...

Sen. Nyamunga): Madam Temporary Chairperson. It is not back and forth. The Chair cannot determine the time. I agree with Sen. Cherargei that the time should be reduced. However, as I contributed earlier, the time should even be reduced to one week or seven days considering that you must give...

Sen. Nyamunga) : Madam Temporary Chairperson, I was concerned whether Sen. Murkomen is supporting Sen. Cherargei’s and Sen. Cheruiyot’s amendments. We need to be specific in order to know whether you are talking about seven or 30 days. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : They were asking for further clarifications,...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, it is a live example. (

Senator, can you stick to the amendments.

Yes, Madam Temporary Chairperson. That is why I am saying, I still think it is unconstitutional to lock political parties from forming a coalition political party or a coalition, including even the parent Act. Therefore, the wisdom that comes with this Bill and Sen. Cherargei’s proposal, is that these 120...

Sen. Cherargei is proposing.The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Cherargei is proposing.The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga): Did I say that? The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : We will check the HANSARD.

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) :The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga): You are not doing it in the manner that it should be done.

Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga): He has mentioned me, and I would like to respond. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Go right ahead.

Sen. Nyamunga): On a point of order, Madam Temporary Chairperson. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : What is your point of order? Proceed, Minority leader.

Madam Temporary Chairperson. I just wanted some clarity from the chair, although there is already precedent on how to deal with special sittings. The Gazette Notice No.429 that was issued by the Speaker on the 20th January, 2022, directed that the special sitting on Tuesday and Wednesday, shall commence settings...

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) :The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga): Hon. Senators, when you talk people listen. Can we give each other an opportunity to say whatever we want? January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 45

Sen. Nyamunga) : I was on the Floor before the point of order. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : No! Sit down. Go and sit down. I have made a decision on that. (Question of the amendment proposed) Division will be at the end. Clause 23 (Question that Clause 23...

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) :

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Madam Temporary Chairpersons, the amendments being moved here are in the Order Paper. They all have to go through the process of being heard in this House. That guarantees that every Member will have an opportunity to prosecute. I propose, as we normally do,...

Sen. Kwamboka up there. She needs to see you then you come back later. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Kwamboka up there. She needs to see you then you come back later. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) :Madam Temporary Chairperson, in fact, today I can tell you that...

Sen. Nyamunga) : You are taking too long. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Orengo) : No, Madam Temporary Chairperson! I have my time. The Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Hon. Senators, let us have some order. (Loud consultations) No, he explained from 60 days to 30 days. You should tell Lawrence,...

Sen. Nyamunga): Yes! The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Orengo) : You then came here pleading for some more time. The Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Point noted. Sen. Cheruiyot, you have two minutes and then we finish with that.

Sen. Nyamunga) : I have said “Senator”. You know you are a son of Kericho County and so, I respect you. Madam Temporary Chairperson, the Speaker gave directions and that is why we are doing what we are doing. If you remember very well, when the Speaker gave directions, he...

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Chairperson. The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) :(Laughter) What is your point of order?

Sen. Nyamunga) : Madam Temporary Chairperson, the Standing Orders cannot even allow somebody who is disorderly to raise a point of order. Many of my friends who are here are actually disorderly, if you look at the definition of ‘disorderly.’ Look at that. That is disorderly. We are allowing a...

Sen. Nyamunga) : Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson. The clarification that I need from Sen. Murkomen to help me understand--- (An Hon. Senator spoke off record) (Laughter)

Sen. Nyamunga) : You have to understand it yourself. That is concluded. Who was on the---. I will not entertain the back and forth. It cannot just be explaining the same thing back and forth. You better do the right thing; you come here and tell us why the amendment...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, it is a very important process because we are making laws. This is a House of laws and legislative process must be followed. If we use shortcuts, the courts of law will embarrass us because they will go January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 52

and overturn the laws we are making and then we will accuse the Judiciary that they are making laws instead of us.By the time you bring in the party register, registration of members, depositing et cetera, those 30 days are more than sufficient. This is because with the technology, there...

Sen. Nyamunga) : Madam Temporary Chairperson, he has begun once again. (Laughter)(Loud consultations) On a point of Order. The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Madam Temporary Chairperson, two minutes are not yet over. I was on the first minute and one second and then you interrupted....

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) :No, Sen. Orengo. It could be for another reason. You know, Kericho County people do not---The Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga): Senator, conclude.

Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga): Madam Temporary Chairperson, I am asking for a point of order and this one is standing behind me and heckling.

Sen. Nyamunga) : Madam Temporary Chairperson, please, can we have intellectual leadership from the Senate Majority Leader and not just coming here to vote. (Loud consultations)

Sen. Cherargei that it is seven days. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) :

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Madam Temporary Chairperson, in the next--- Sen. Nyamunga) :You are provoking us.(Loud consultations)

Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga): Madam Temporary Chairperson, you know for sure that Sen. Murkomen is a very angry man because he is not the Leader of Majority; and it is not my fault, really. He shows that anger every day. This Senator has talked about me without bringing a Motion...

Sen. Nyamunga) :

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : My colleague, Sen. Poghisio, knows that he has my full support. If only he can be coming to the Chamber to guide us; he cannot just come to vote. I already made my proposal in the definition section that I do not believe it...

Do not drop his amendment until we get a clarification from the Clerk’s office. The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Further amendment proposed by Sen. Kipchumba Murkomen.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, this is the real deal. If this Bill is going to collapse in a week, although I think it will not take a week if it ever reaches the stage of being law, it will be because of this Section. I am not a Judge and I...

Sen. Nyamunga) : The Division will be at the end. Proceed, Sen. Were to make the amendment. Sen. Were is not online. The amendment is, therefore, dropped. (The proposed amendment by Sen. Were dropped) Clauses 25, 26 and 27 (Question that Clauses 25, 26 and 27 be part of the...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I suspect that

Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga): Madam Temporary Chairperson, can you hear me? The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. (Dr.) Ochillo-Ayacko, do you want to say something?

Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga): I have a further amendment to Clause 31, which states that the Bill--- I have been told to hold on a bit. Let me know when I should continue.

Sen. Nyamunga) : Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 11 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new section immediately after the proposed new Section 14B– 14C (1) A political party may, notwithstanding Section 14A and 14B and upon deeming a member to have resigned...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, you are being misled because I do not have an amendment. However, I have a duty to legislate. Therefore, any amendment that is brought to the Floor of the House is duty-bound to be heard. January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 58

Sen. Nyamunga): Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson. I kept trying to get your attention because Sen. Murkomen and Sen. Cheruiyot severally mentioned that Sen. Pareno was quiet yet things are going wrong. With the not so little experience that I have had in running political parties, I can say that...

Sen. Nyamunga) : He voted Yes and No. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : The Clerk had called Sen. Kihika.

Sen. Nyamunga) :No. Sen. Kibiru was outside when you mentioned Sen. Kihika first. It is not about time. It is about doing the right thing. Just tell us why you are supporting and be brief and let others interrogate too. That is how it should be done. You have not...

Sen. Nyamunga) :Order,

Madam Temporary Chairperson, you cannot be intimidated. You are ‘unbwogable.’ Nobody can ‘bwogo’ you. You have done a fantastic job. There is no other Chair who has done this. I am not flattering you; I have been in this House for nine years. (Sen. Orengo spoke off record) She did...

Sen. Cheruyiot stood in his place) The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) :NOES: 28 ABSENTIONS: Nil. No! You have been talking here the whole afternoon. Have your seat. I will give you an opportunity. The Senate Minority Leader (

Sen. Orengo--- The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) :

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) :Sen. Cherargei, Nandi County; Sen. Kinyua, Laikipia County. Sen. (Dr.) Lelegwe, Samburu County; and Sen. Murkomen, Elgeyo-Marakwet County Teller of the Noes:

Sen. Nyamunga) :

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report. I request Sen. Orengo to second. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Orengo) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to second. (Question proposed) (Question put and...

Sen. Nyamunga) : Let the Division Bell be rung for one minute. (The Division Bell was rung) I now direct that the names be called out. Let us have the Tellers. What is your point of order?

Sen. Cheruiyot and Sen. Cherargei speak. Sen. Orengo must have walked out and has just walked in. We are all participating. He should allow us to continue. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) :Teller for the Ayes: Hon. Senators, I have heard all your comments. We are at the Committee Stage....

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I agree with what Sen. Murkomen said that you have done well in managing the process. (Loud consultations) January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 60

The Temporary Chairperson (

Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga):

Hon. Senators, when you talk people listen. Can we give each other an opportunity to say whatever we want?

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I support what Sen. Murkomen has said. You have done very well. In the amendments that Sen. Murkomen, Sen. Cherargei and Sen. Cheruiyot have put, they have executed their legislative mandate very well. However, the process must have an end. At the end of the day, the...

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Honorable Senators, it is now time to adjourn the House. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until Thursday, 27th January 2022 at (Loud consultations)

I was on the Floor. The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : You have gone back and forth until---

I was on the Floor before the point of order. The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : No! Sit down. Go and sit down. I have made a decision on that. (Question of the amendment proposed) Division will be at the end. Clause 23 (Question that Clause...

The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga): You cannot be there and arguing.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, do not allow somebody---. The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Continue, Sen. Murkomen. I have given direction on how we move forward.

I have heard you. I know how this House runs. When you go wrong, you must be ready to be told so. You are a Chairperson and cannot say you are absolute. You are not. You are guided by the Standing Orders. I am still waiting for clarification from Sen....

Sen. Cherargei and Sen. (Eng.) Mahamud. How did you jump--- The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Cherargei and Sen. (Eng.) Mahamud. How did you jump--- The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) :

We cannot deliberate on only one issue back and forth by only three Members. It will not work.

No, there is no back and forth. Sen. Cheruiyot was already on the Floor. I had my pen and paper waiting for his clarification. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Orengo) raised his point of order and by virtue of that point of order, you remove a Member from the Floor....

How do I make it before I listen to the other one? The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Just make that amendment.

Under what Standing Order will I proceed to deny my colleagues--- The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : We will come to that later, but for now---

No, this is serious. The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : We are still here. There are amendments that we have skipped.

You people are already many. So, leave us to make our case. Sen. Orengo, I told you not to heckle. You need what I am saying more than rushing the time. The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Let us have some order.

Let us have some order.

Who called you? Nobody called you. The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Let us have some order.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, next time--- (Several Members spoke off record) Madam Temporary Chairperson, protect me. I cannot even hear myself. The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : What is your point of order Sen. Wamatangi?

Let us sit down, Members. Madam Chair I propose--- (Several Members stood up in their places) January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 62

The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga): Please, let us have order. We are not going to entertain disorder.

Madam Temporary Chairpersons, the amendments being moved here are in the Order Paper. They all have to go through the process of being heard in this House. That guarantees that every Member will have an opportunity to prosecute. I propose, as we normally do, that we have a time allocation...

Under what Standing Order?

There is only one Chairperson. We are not saying that anybody is stopped from making their contribution. They should, but at the end of the day, this must end by midnight. I propose a Motion that we allow each amendment to take a maximum of at least 15 minutes. If...

Sen. Kavindu Muthama to second. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Kavindu Muthama to second. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) :

Let me make a comment on that. (Sen. Murkomen spoke off record) No, I have not given you an opportunity. Initially, I had suggested that we put timelines and Members objected that there was no Standing Order on that. The problem is that we are not going by the rule....

In the American system, you can filibuster even during Committee Stage. You can take as much time as possible or filibuster for a whole year. However, under the Parliamentary system we inherited in the Commonwealth, during the Committee of Whole Stage, the person proposing the amendment gives justification for it....

Okay. Sawa.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, in fact, today I can tell you that we have never had proceedings in the Committee of the Whole House the way we are doing now. Never; not even when

“I propose the amendment as it is in the Order Paper.” (Loud consultations)

You are taking too long. The Senate Minority Leader (

No, Madam Temporary Chairperson! I have my time. The Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Hon. Senators, let us have some order. (Loud consultations) January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 64 The Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Cheruiyot, please!

Through the Chairperson, Sen. (Loud consultations)

Yes! The Senate Minority Leader (

You then came here pleading for some more time. The Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Point noted. Sen. Cheruiyot, you have two minutes and then we finish with that.

I have said “Senator”. You know you are a son of Kericho County and so, I respect you. Madam Temporary Chairperson, the Speaker gave directions and that is why we are doing what we are doing. If you remember very well, when the Speaker gave directions, he said that those...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, allow me to make my point about Clause 22. The Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Senate Majority Leader, proceed.

Na wewe Kenya African National Union (KANU) ilikufukuza. (Laughter) January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 65

Sasa tutachemsha. The Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Hon. Senators, let us have some order, please.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, the Standing Orders cannot even allow somebody who is disorderly to raise a point of order. Many of my friends who are here are actually disorderly, if you look at the definition of ‘disorderly.’ Look at that. That is disorderly. We are allowing a group of disorderlies...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I will make my point if you also save me from the frivolous points of order, like what the Senate Majority Leader is saying. The Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Okay. Just go ahead, I have heard and I am going to be very...

Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson. The clarification that I need from Sen. Murkomen to help me understand--- (An Hon. Senator spoke off record) (Laughter)

No, Madam Temporary Chairperson, it is not my amendment. So, clarifications about Clause 22 are for him. Madam Temporary Chairperson, I need to understand---

You have to understand it yourself.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, protect me from the Senate Majority Leader who was once a victim of this same law, but has forgotten in his old days. January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 66

The Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga): Kindly, let us not divert attention. I have given you two minutes and they will be over. I will then give a ruling.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, how will I proceed if Sen. Poghisio is interrupting me and Sen. Kwamboka is shouting? Honestly! The Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Kwamboka, let us have some order. Let all of us have some order. I am giving you just two minutes to...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I will do it. We need to understand Article 88 of our Constitution that sets up IEBC. Article 88 (4) (d) , the regulations---

Kindly.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, he has begun once again. (Laughter) (Loud consultations)

Sen. Kang’ata, your amendments is still pending. Madam Temporary Chairman, Sir, Article 88 (4) (d) grants the powers of the regulation of the process by which parties nominate candidates for elections. This is a purely constitutionally granted power to IEBC. Somebody then sits somewhere and purports to send a legislation...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, two minutes are not yet over. I was on the first minute and one second and then you interrupted. So, give me my 58 seconds. The Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Go ahead.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, we need to understand; if we have got to a point where we want to seize instead of granting additional powers to independent clean set up constitutional offices and setting them in the hands of a single individual, who on the whims of the politics of the...

No, Sen. Orengo. It could be for another reason. You know, Kericho County people do not---The Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga): Senator, conclude.

Okay, Madam Temporary Chairperson. I want to conclude, but I will do so if

Sen. Orengo can grant me the peace that I want. It is difficult to talk when you are being interrupted. The Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Orengo can grant me the peace that I want. It is difficult to talk when you are being interrupted. The Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) :

I think Sen. Murkomen should respond to that.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson. (

Sen. Poghisio spoke off record) The Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Poghisio spoke off record) The Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga) :

Sen. Murkomen, please, proceed.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, you can see the Senate Majority Leader making a lot of noise. If the history of this House will be written, it will be said that there was a very silent Senate Majority Leader, who guided people on nothing in the Chamber, spoke to nothing; not even...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I am asking for a point of order and this one is standing behind me and heckling.

I can walk. The Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : No, you are not the one on a point of order. Sen. Murkomen, please, just respond and give clarification.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, please, can we have intellectual leadership from the Senate Majority Leader and not just coming here to vote. (Loud consultations)

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I am very serious. I am not out of order. We have a Senate Majority Leader who only comes here to vote from the time he assumed that position. (Loud consultations) January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 68

Sen. Kwamboka, please!

Madam Temporary Chairperson, in the next---

You are provoking us. (Loud consultations)

Madam Temporary Chairperson, let me respond in one minute.

(Laughter)

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I cannot even hear myself. If you look at the amendment provided, I made a statement of fact and it is incontrovertible. If you look at the amendment proposed, the objective is to protect the constitutional responsibility of IEBC. Once Sen. Cheruiyot appreciates, like I did--- I...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, you know for sure that Sen. Murkomen is a very angry man because he is not the Leader of Majority; and it is not my fault, really. He shows that anger every day. This Senator has talked about me without bringing a Motion and you should rule...

Yes, but somebody cannot discuss me here in your presence without a substantive Motion. You know that for sure. This anger that Sen. Murkomen carries is really causing a lot of problems not only here, but even outside there. He is still angry with me everywhere he goes. (Laughter) January...

He has to deal with that anger and should also be orderly. What makes it worse is that ever since he ceased to be the Leader of Majority, he behaves in a manner that we did not know existed in him. Now, the only thing I want to ask is...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I am prosecuting very serious parliamentary business; I am not angry. The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Please, just make your comments.

January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 70

January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 71

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I, therefore, propose that Clause 24 of the Bill be amended by deleting the new proposed —

Before I put the Question, if the amendment by Sen. Murkomen is carried, then Sen. Were’s amendment will not be moved. Sen. Cherargei’s amendment will only be moved in respect of Part (b) . (Question of the amendment proposed) The Division will be at the end. Sen. Were is not...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I am online. I do not know why you do not see online.

Sen. Were, you will move your amendment after Sen. Cherargei. Proceed, Sen. Cherargei.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, although Sen. Murkomen has expended with Clause 24, I beg to move- THAT clause 24 of the Bill be amended by-

The Division will be at the end. Proceed, Sen. Were to make the amendment. Sen. Were is not online. The amendment is, therefore, dropped. (The proposed amendment by Sen. Were dropped) Clauses 25, 26 and 27 (Question that Clauses 25, 26 and 27 be part of the Bill proposed)

The Division will be at the end. Clause 28

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT clause 28 of the Bill be amended by deleting paragraph (a) I am very happy if Members want to pass this Clause as it is, so that we can deal with it elsewhere. Sub-section 2 states that amending Section 41 of the...

The Division will be at the end. Clauses 29 and 30 (Question that Clauses 29 and 30 be part of the Bill proposed)

The Division will be at the end. January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 73

Next Clause Clause 31

Madam Temporary Chairperson it is very sad that these amendments are coming to an end. I have really enjoyed moving the amendments and it is sad that they are coming to an end. Moving the amendments has been one of my best moments this afternoon. Madam Temporary Chairperson, I do...

Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson. (Question of the amendment proposed) The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : The Division will be at the end. Let us now have Sen. Were online.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, can you hear me? The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. (Dr.) Ochillo-Ayacko, do you want to say something?

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I have heard Sen. Murkomen talk many times about the Constitution---

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I have two amendments--- The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Were, just hold on for one minute. Sen. (Dr.) Ochillo-Ayacko, I will give you time. Okay, go on Sen. Were.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- (There was a technical hitch) Sub section (3) talks about delegates in an indirect party nomination. That Section suggest that a delegate’s identification number, contact and even address be taken to the IEBC. That is exposing the delegates to danger and it can...

I have a further amendment to Clause 31, which states that the Bill--- I have been told to hold on a bit. Let me know when I should continue. January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 75

The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga): Senator, move the amendment on Clause 31 first.

Okay. Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended in Clause 31 by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (c) – “ (d) In Section 43 by deleting the words “six months” appearing immediately after the words “office at least” and substituting therefor the...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 24 of the Bill be amended in the proposed New Section 38 (G) by deleting subsection (3) . Subsection (3) talks about delegates who are supposed to elect candidates for a political party in an indirect nomination process. Madam Temporary Chairperson,...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, can you hear me? January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 76

The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga): You are not clear. Can you be clearer? Go ahead.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 11 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new section immediately after the proposed new Section 14B– 14C (1) A political party may, notwithstanding Section 14A and 14B and upon deeming a member to have resigned or finding a...

Madam Temporary Chairperson, a good example is the Senate Majority--- The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Kindly summarise.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, a good example is the Senate Majority Leader who during the old KANU days was a Member of Parliament in the morning but was not one in the afternoon. The same thing happened to me on 12th May. It was a painful process. I had to be...

Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson. I appreciate the fact that we have all been sitting for long. Therefore, I will not be detailed. Sen. Murkomen mentioned this when he was moving his amendment. If you read Article 88 of the Constitution which establishes the IEBC and confers upon it responsibilities...

Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson. I kept trying to get your attention because Sen. Murkomen and Sen. Cheruiyot severally mentioned that Sen. Pareno was quiet yet things are going wrong. With the not so little experience that I have had in running political parties, I can say that this Bill...

problem. During the party primaries, we have had other parties come to gang up against their competitor’s most popular candidate just because there is no register to verify who is voting. This will bridge the gap that had been created by the Act that we had. In fact, most of...

He voted Yes and No. The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : The Clerk had called Sen. Kihika. January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 79 Clerk-at-the-Table: No. It was

Sen. Kibiru. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga)

No. Sen. Kibiru was outside when you mentioned Sen. Kihika first. DIVISION ROLL CALL VOTING Teller of the Ayes:

Sen. Abdul Haji, Sen. (Dr.) Ali, Wajir County; Garissa County; Sen. Boy, Kwale County; Sen. Dullo, Isiolo County; Sen. Faki, Mombasa County; Sen. (Eng.) Hargura, Marsabit County; Sen. M. Kajwang’, Homa Bay County; Sen. (Prof.) Kamar, Uasin Gishu County; Sen. Kavindu Muthama, Machakos County; Sen. Khaniri, Vihiga County; Sen. Kibiru,...

Sen. Shiyonga The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga)

Order,

January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 80 NOES: 28 ABSENTIONS: Nil. DIVISION ROLL CALL VOTING Teller of the Ayes:

Sen. Abdul Haji, Sen. (Dr.) Ali, Wajir County; Garissa County; Sen. Boy, Kwale County; Sen. Dullo, Isiolo County; Sen. Faki, Mombasa County; Sen. Hargura, Marsabit County; Sen. M. Kajwang’, Homa Bay County; Sen. (Prof.) Kamar, Uasin Gishu County; Sen. Kavindu Muthama, Machakos County; Sen. Khaniri, Vihiga County; Sen. Kibiru, Kirinyaga...

Sen. Shiyonga The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga)

Order,

AYES: 4 NOES: 27 ABSENTIONS: Nil. (Loud consultations) January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 81

The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga): Hon. Senators, kindly consult in low tones DIVISION ROLL CALL VOTING Teller of the Ayes:

Sen. Cherargei, Nandi County; Sen. Kinyua, Laikipia County. Sen. (Dr.) Lelegwe, Samburu County; and Sen. Murkomen, Elgeyo-Marakwet County Teller of the Noes:

Sen. Shiyonga. The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga)

Hon. Senators, the results of the Division are as follows- AYES: 28 NOES: 4 ABSENTIONS: Nil. January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 82

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the Senate its consideration of the Political Parties (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bills No.56 of 2021) and its approval thereof without amendment. (Question proposed) (Question put and agreed to) (The House resumed) [The Speaker (Hon. Lusaka) in...

I now call upon the Chairperson to report.

Sen. Nyamunga

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered the Political Parties (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bills No.56 of 2021) and its approval thereof without amendments.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report. I request

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to second. (Question proposed) (Question put and agreed to)

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I beg to move that the Political Parties (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bills No.56 of 2021) be now read a Third Time. I request

Mr. Speaker, Sir, my pleasure to second. (Question proposed) (Question put and agreed to)

Let the Division Bell be rung for one minute. (The Division Bell was rung) I now direct that the names be called out. Let us have the Tellers. January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 83

Sen. (Eng.) Maina, unmute and vote. We cannot hear you. (Roll Call voting in progress) THIRD READING THE POLITICAL PARTIES (AMENDMENT) BILL (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY BILLS NO. 56 OF 2021) DIVISION ROLL CALL VOTING Teller for the Ayes:

Sen. Cherargei, Nandi County; Sen. Kinyua, Laikipia County; and Sen. Murkomen, Elgeyo-Marakwet County.

Hon. Senators, these are the results of the division. AYES: 28 NOES: 3 ABSTENTIONS: Nil January 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 84

Honourable Senators, I defer the other business that had been listed on the Order Paper. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE THE HERITAGE AND MUSEUMS BILL (SENATE BILLS NO. 22 OF 2021) COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE THE COUNTY OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY BILL (SENATE BILLS NO. 17 OF 2021) COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE...

Honorable Senators, it is now time to adjourn the House. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until Thursday, 27th January 2022 at

Sen. Nyamunga): Sen. Nyamunga):

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) : Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 8 of the Bill be amended— January 25, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 9

The Temporary Chairperson ( Sen. Nyamunga):be part of the Bill, proposed) The Temporary Chairperson (Sen. Nyamunga): Division will be at the end. New Clause 2A Sen. Mwaruma, move the amendment on behalf of the Chairperson, Standing Committee on Labour and Social Welfare.

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 5 of the Bill be amended by —

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 7 of the Bill be amended by inserting the following new paragraph immediately after paragraph (b) –

Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT Clause 8 of the Bill be amended—

Thank you, Madam Temporary Chairperson. I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 34. THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 35. THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 36. THAT the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 37. THAT the Bill be amended...

Sen. Nyamunga): Madam Temporary Chairperson, I beg to move- THAT the Bill be amended by inserting the following New Clause immediately after New Clause 33D- Heritage agreements. 33E (1) The National Museums of Kenya or a county museum may enter into an agreement with a conservation body, a person, or...

Sen. Nyamunga) : Sen. Nyamunga) :

Sen. Nyamunga

Sen. Nyamunga Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to make a point of order. I think we are coming to this House for the first time this year and I can see several ladies seated in this House, including myself. The way business is being conducted, I think...

Sen. Nyamunga Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this amendment Bill by Sen. Shiyonga. I support this Bill because it is timely and important that this amendment is made. I believe it will pass in this House. I support because we know that health is a devolved function. Once...

Sen. Nyamunga Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The Kenya Citizenship and Immigration (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.33 of 2021) and seek leave to seat again tomorrow. THE KENYA CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION (AMENDMENT) BILL (SENATE BILLS NO.33 OF 2021)

Madam Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the Whole has considered The Kenya Citizenship and Immigration (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bills No.33 of 2021) and seek leave to seat again tomorrow.

Sen. Nyamunga Thank you, Mr. Speaker Sir. There are two reports which would have been laid today, but I would wish to defer the laying of the first Report by the Standing Committee of Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations on the issue of the boundary.

Sen. Nyamunga Mr. Speaker, Sir, I wish to state that the Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations is established pursuant to Standing Order No.218 and mandated to consider all matters relating to devolution, intergovernmental and intercounty relations, governance and management of county governments, cities, towns and urban areas. The members...

Sen. Nyamunga Thank you, Mr. Speaker, Sir. First of all, I join you in welcoming the two sets of visitors we have. I am so glad that Kisumu County Assembly is here today in the form of Public Accounts Committee (PAC) . In as much as we do a lot...