Catherine Muyeka Mumma

Sen. Lemaletian, you may proceed.

Sen. Joe Nyutu, please, proceed.

Sen. (Dr.) Oburu, please, proceed.

Sen. Okenyuri, please proceed.

Sen. Maanzo, please proceed.

Sen. Seki?

Proceed, Sen. Okiya Omtatah.

Proceed, Sen. Ogola.

Proceed, Sen. Mungatana.

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, proceed.

Madam Governor, just answer the question, please. Gov. Kawira Mwangaza: They have the right to print the--- Dr. Muthomi Thiankolu: Yes, therefore, you will acknowledge that all they needed to put this matter to rest if there was no embezzlement was to log in and print. Correct or incorrect? Gov....

Counsel, you are insisting that she has typed and she is saying that they did not. Can you re-ask the question so that she can answer directly? Dr. Muthomi Thiankolu: On its face, the document in your defense, is it generated from IFMIS or manually typed? That should be clear...

Counsel, what is your question? Dr. Muthomi Thiankolu: Is it the county officials in Meru who keyed in the data on IFMIS? Governor? Gov. Kawira Mwangaza: Yes, it is the county officials for our case. Dr. Muthomi Thiankolu: Therefore, you will agree with me that if there is any misrepresentation...

Can you be clearer in your question? Dr. Muthomi Thiankolu: When an officer takes an imprest, are they not given cash. Is that not why it is indicated as prepayment because they have been given cash to expend and later account? Gov. Kawira Mwangaza: It depends on whether---

Counsel, can you ask clearly? What question do you want her to answer? Dr. Muthomi Thiankolu: The question, Madam Governor, that I am putting to you is that your answer is that officers take imprest and then later on when money is disbursed from the Treasury they are paid, that...

Counsel, sorry to interrupt. I would like to alert all parties of the timelines that we are going to follow and we are going to strictly adhere to this- The cross-examination will end at 7.10 p.m. without any extra minute. The re-examination will start from 7.10 to 7.30 p.m. The...

Hon. Governor, please answer the questions as asked. Gov. Kawira Mwangaza: Counsel, I have never appointed any of these--- Hon. Governor, just hold on. Counsel, can you ask the question and can she answer it?

Madam Governor, they want a yes or no answer. Just answer whether you delegated or not. Gov. Kawira Mwangaza: No one has been sourced from outside. These are directors at acting capacity awaiting substantive recruitment.

The team from the County Assembly, kindly assist.

As the team for the County Assembly prepares for re-examination, we will be strict with time. (Interruption of presentation of the case of the Meru County Governor) COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS TO PARLIAMENT BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT Hon. Senators, I have a Communication to...

Thank you, Counsel. We now move on to clarifications by Senators. I request that we strictly adhere to the 2 minutes so that we give as many Senators an opportunity. We will begin with Sen. Wakili Sigei. This session will end at 7:50 p.m. as I had said earlier. It...

Five minutes.

Order, Senators! Sen. Cherarkey and Sen. Madzayo, you are disrupting the House. Please, sit down.

Senate Majority Leader, proceed.

Hon. Members, we go for seven minutes. It is a good balance. Proceed Sen. Cherarkey. (Sen. Cherarkey crossed the Floor without bowing to the Chair)

Order, Sen. Cherarkey! Can you follow the correct protocols of this House? (Sen. Cherarkey bowed to the Chair) They will get the full pleasure of seeing their Senators debate. The Motion that is present on the Floor is a Bill known as the Equalization Fund prepared under Article 204(1) of...

Madam Temporary Speaker, I would like to assure them that we appreciate the role they play in the transport sector of this country. We are aware that these young people work under difficult circumstances, both environmental, law and social. We appreciate the role the boda boda play in getting all...

Order! Sen. Nyamu, this is an honourable House. Can you do what you are supposed to do? You need to bow when you get into the House. (Sen. Nyamu bowed to the Chair) Thank you. Continue, Sen. (Dr.) Oburu

I will also give one minute to Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale who will at a later date move a Bill on boda-boda.

Sen. Cherarkey, it is possible to consult without disrupting the House. Consult in low tones.

Sen. Omogeni, proceed.

I mean even if you drive through Bomet County, you will realise that the best- grade cows are found in the County of Bomet. However, we are telling Kenyans that Bomet is one of those marginalised counties. That is not proper.

Sen. Cheruiyot, proceed.

Order, Sen. Omogeni!

Hon. Senators, can I have a point of information from Sen. Wambua. Let us hear him and then I will give you time. He said that he had a point of information. Sen. Omogeni, please sit.

Order, Sen. Wambua! No, you are not. You are playing the role of the Speaker. Can you pass on the information that you have?

Senator, are you explaining or you are responding? What is the point of order?

Order, Sen. Wambua!

Order, Sen. Wambua! No, you are not. You are playing the role of the Speaker. Can you pass on the information that you have?

Thank you, Sen. Wambua. (Laughter)

Madam Temporary Speaker, I have not referred to any location. I have stated that I disagree with the formula by the CRA where only 34 counties are benefiting. So, what do I need to substantiate? Where I come from in the County of Nyamira for your information--- Senators, please allow...

I want to be informed by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Madam Temporary Speaker, the opinion of Sen. Omogeni, remembering that he is a Senior Counsel and his experience in this House, forces me to refer to the constitutionality of what he has said. Article 204 of the Constitution provides as follows- ‘‘ (1) There is established an Equalisation Fund into...

I am now encouraging him that there were areas in this country called counties that had been marginalised. It was agreed that there was poverty in many parts of Kenya. However, the poverty in these areas was as a result---.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you cannot be the one ruling on your own. Sen. Omogeni, I hope you have heard me clearly. You are entitled to your opinion, but you will name which county was included that should not have been included or withdraw.

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, please sit down. The fact that is required for you to provide is the ‘undeserving’ counties.

Sen. Omogeni, you are trying to make a point about the formula. That the poverty index is the wrong formula. Is that your point?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, what information are you giving to Sen. Omogeni?

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, you are out of order. You cannot just interrupt when somebody is speaking. It is not acceptable.

The fact that is required for you to provide is the ‘undeserving’ counties.

a reservoir created for those people to be able to get water for their animals and own consumption.Madam Temporary Speaker, if you go to Narok South in Narosora, you will be shocked. There is no road. There is a place in Narok South, up in Loita called Limpumputia where there...

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, you are out of order. You cannot just interrupt when somebody is speaking. It is not acceptable.

Sen. Thang’wa, please proceed.

Proceed, Sen. Olekina.

Madam Temporary Speaker, I begin by supporting this Bill because when I was trying to make my case, I was interrupted severally. It is about time that I see the people of Mosiro and Loita getting water. I am happy and I will take what I am given. Every time...

Sen. Thang’wa okay. Proceed, Sen. Olekina.

It is a point of order I was asking for when Sen. Olekina was speaking.

Hon. Members, we will continue with the debate. Sen. Oketch Gicheru. (Sen. Nyamu stood in her place)

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this Bill. There are some misconceptions that have been shared in this House about the role of the Commission on Revenue Allocation (CRA) . I wanted to debunk them given that I sit in the Committee of...

Madam Temporary Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to contribute to this debate. This is not the first time we are interacting with this Bill. We are happy that finally we are going to get these funds disbursed to our counties and see the difference that it will make...

I wanted you to contribute. I have not given you that chance. It is okay, let her raise the point of order. I have allowed it.

Madam Temporary Speaker, we even see the Kenya Electricity Transmission Company Limited (KETRACO) power lines--- Your time is up Senator. Proceed, Sen. Osotsi. You used your position differently, sorry. Sen. Nyamu, sit and I will give you an opportunity.

Sen. Nyamu, I have not changed my sex yet.

Sen. Wambua, you may have the Floor.

Secondly, I know there is matter that is pending before this House. I call upon Members of the County Assemblies (MCAs), in the areas that have been listed as marginalised and therefore benefiting from this fund. I want these MCAs to realise that there will be additional allocations to their...

Sen. Osotsi, your time is up. Sen. Nyamu, proceed.

Sen. Nyamu, I have not changed my sex yet.

preparation of a Report for submission to the Leadership of Kenya Kwanza and Azimio Coalition and thereafter, to Parliament;NOW, THEREFORE, the Houses of Parliament resolve to extend the mandate of the National Dialogue Committee by a further 30 days from 28th October, 2023 and consequently, the Committee shall be required...

Hon. Members, I will call upon Senators to contribute. Pursuant to Standing Order No. 34 (4) (a) , I wish to extend the time by 15 minutes. (Applause) Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I rise to reply. I thank all my colleagues for the support that they have shown for...

The Mover to reply. (Applause)

On the issue of governance, I like what Sen. Madzayo has spoken about on how the police officers treat the hon. Members of Parliament. We need to address that so that there is an honor on how you treat MPs.I assure you, Sen. Madzayo, that we shall address that issue...

Sen. Wambua, you may proceed.

Proceed, Sen. Madzayo.

The Mover to reply.

Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order No. 84 (1) , I wish to make the determination that this matter does not affect counties. (Question put and agreed to) ADJOURNMENT Hon. Senators, it is now 6.45 p.m., time to adjourn the Senate. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until tomorrow, Thursday 19th...

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise, pursuant to Standing Order No. 53 (1) , to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations regarding measures put in place to address insecurity in Turkana County, including cross-border conflicts. In the Statement, the Committee should -

Proceed, Sen. (Prof.) Tom Odhiambo Ojienda. CIVILIAN DEATHS AND INJURIES CAUSED BY COUNTRY-WIDE DEMONSTRATIONS

Proceed, Sen. Okenyuri. SOCIO-ECONOMIC IMPACT OF THE HUSTLER FUND

We will defer the Statement by Sen. Mundigi. I think he is somewhere else. STALLED GOVERNMENT IRRIGATION PROJECTS IN EMBU COUNTY ALLEGED SHORTAGE OF CERTIFIED SEEDS FOR FARMERS HIGH PREVALENCE OF CANCER IN MARSABIT COUNTY

Proceed, Sen. Mwaruma.

Sen. Mwaruma, hold on a bit. I ask the Vice Chair of the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare who is present to quickly respond to Sen. Chimera’s concern. If you are able that is.

Can the relevant Committee ensure that they provide a response at the next Sitting? Sen. Mwaruma. UNDERPAYMENT OF RETIREMENT BENEFITS TO FORMER EMPLOYEES OF HFCK

Sen. Sifuna. ALLEGED GRABBING OF TOM MBOYA SOCIAL HALL IN MAKADARA CONSTITUENCY

Hon. Members, Sen. Crystal Asige’s Statement is deferred. She is away officially. (Statement deferred) COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR VISITING DELEGATION FROM THE COUNTY ASSEMBLY OF MURANGÁ

Thank you. I now wish to invite Sen. Omogeni to move a Motion. NOTICE OF MOTION EXTENSION OF MANDATE OF THE NATIONAL DIALOGUE COMMITTEE

Next order. THE PUBLIC HOLIDAYS (AMENDMENT) BILL, (SENATE BILLS NO.31 OF 2023) THE PARLIAMENTARY POWERS AND PRIVILEGES (AMENDMENT) BILL (SENATE BILLS NO.37 OF 2023) THE PUBLIC TRANSPORT (MOTORCYCLE REGULATION) BILL (SENATE BILLS NO.38 OF 2023) First Reading THE PUBLIC FINANCE MANAGEMENT (AMENDMENT) BILL (SENATE BILLS NO.40 OF 2023) THE STREET...

Next Order. ADOPTION OF REPORT ON APPLICATION FOR CONFERMENT OF CITY STATUS TO THE MUNICIPALITY OF ELDORET Sen. Maanzo, proceed. Sen. Orwoba, proceed? Did you log in to speak? Sen. Cherarkey, proceed.

Proceed, Sen. (Dr.) Oburu.

What is your point of order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale?

Order, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale! I think Sen. (Dr.) Oburu said that some called it magendo. I do not know whether he admitted to any responsibility. Sen. (Dr.) Oburu, you can clarify.

Sen. Cherarkey, what is your point of order?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, what is your point of order?

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, Sen. (Dr.) Oburu has conceded that they come from Nyanza and Western.

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker for giving me the opportunity to support this Motion. I congratulate the Standing Committee on Devolution and Intergovernmental Relations for a job well done. I say so because I happen to have become a friend to the Committee on the last day of their tour...

Sen. Joe Nyutu, please proceed.

Yes, electronic evidence can be tabled in this House.

Madam Temporary Speaker, Sen. Thang’wa has suggested that this Motion was moved to protect criminals and a political party whose leaders look like they support the victims. If he is speaking in good faith to help resolve this problem, he needs to name the party and the leaders who are...

On a point of order, Madam Temporary Speaker.

Madam Temporary Speaker, can the hon. Senator tell us who is protecting fraudsters among the people who have spoken?

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker, for the opportunity to contribute to this. This Motion came because of the sad pictures of people's houses being brought down. What we are discussing today is an issue of ensuring that this country gets back to law and order. We have court rulings from...

This House needs to move in a manner that we can even set an inquiry to get to the bottom of this. This is recurring every so often. In 2011, 1,100 families were evicted in Garissa County and the courts found that Government did this wrongly. It also happened in...

Thank you, Madam Temporary Speaker. I believe I have one minute going. As a House, I am pleading. Many departments have slept on the job on this matter. Rather than look at this politically on who is speaking and who is doing what, as a House, we need to be...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I second. (Question proposed) So, Senators, I will not put the question now. I will put all the questions together. (The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted with the Deputy Speaker) AYES: 35 NOES: Nil ABSTENTIONS: Nil.