David Ouma Ochieng'

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Thank you very much, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I agree with the Leader of the Majority Party and the Leader of the Minority Party. I do not think that this matter should get here every year. This House sits and approves a budget and even a...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The next chance goes to Hon. Jayne Kihara if she is in the House. (Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose and several other Members raised their hands) Do not raise your hands. This is not a high school. Hon. Julius Rutto, Member for Kesses.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') Hon. Farah.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Who is the seconder?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Buuri.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Njeri Maina, Member for Kirinyaga.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. The Member from Mombasa, Hon. Zamzam Chimba.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') Leader of the Majority Party.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) This is your chance, Hon….

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Beatrice, do you want to comment on this?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, I take it that those whose names appear want to contribute to this. The first chance will then go to the Hon. Charles Kamuren. He is the Chairperson of the Food Security Caucus in the country.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') Which other debate is this? 30th November 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 17 The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng')Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I said that financial matters are difficult. Understanding divestiture and investments may be difficult for many people. The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Wakili Muriu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Any Member of the Departmental Committee on Housing, Public Works and Urban Development?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next Order. NOTING OF REPORT OF THE KENYAN DELEGATION TO THE 4TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE EAPA-FSN IN KIGALI, RWANDA The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Do you have a card with you?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Kaguchia.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Odanga, Member for Matayos.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The next chance goes to Hon. Jayne Kihara if she is in the House. (Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose and several other Members raised their hands) Do not raise your hands. This is not a high school. Hon. Julius Rutto, Member for Kesses.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) This is your chance, Hon….

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Any Member of the Departmental Committee on Housing, Public Works and Urban Development?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Njeri Maina, Member for Kirinyaga.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next Order. NOTING OF REPORT OF THE KENYAN DELEGATION TO THE 4TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE EAPA-FSN IN KIGALI, RWANDA The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Do you have a card with you?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Beatrice, do you want to comment on this?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') Which other debate is this? 30th November 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 17 The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng')Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I said that financial matters are difficult. Understanding divestiture and investments may be difficult for many people. The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Kaguchia.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. The Member from Mombasa, Hon. Zamzam Chimba.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Wakili Muriu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, I take it that those whose names appear want to contribute to this. The first chance will then go to the Hon. Charles Kamuren. He is the Chairperson of the Food Security Caucus in the country.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') Hon. Farah.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Odanga, Member for Matayos.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') Leader of the Majority Party.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Buuri.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Who is the seconder?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The next chance goes to Hon. Jayne Kihara if she is in the House. (Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose and several other Members raised their hands) Do not raise your hands. This is not a high school. Hon. Julius Rutto, Member for Kesses.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') Hon. Farah.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Who is the seconder?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Buuri.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Njeri Maina, Member for Kirinyaga.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. The Member from Mombasa, Hon. Zamzam Chimba.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') Leader of the Majority Party.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) This is your chance, Hon….

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Beatrice, do you want to comment on this?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, I take it that those whose names appear want to contribute to this. The first chance will then go to the Hon. Charles Kamuren. He is the Chairperson of the Food Security Caucus in the country.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') Which other debate is this? 30th November 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 17 The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng')Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I said that financial matters are difficult. Understanding divestiture and investments may be difficult for many people. The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Wakili Muriu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Any Member of the Departmental Committee on Housing, Public Works and Urban Development?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next Order. NOTING OF REPORT OF THE KENYAN DELEGATION TO THE 4TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE EAPA-FSN IN KIGALI, RWANDA The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Do you have a card with you?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Kaguchia.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Odanga, Member for Matayos.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The next chance goes to Hon. Jayne Kihara if she is in the House. (Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose and several other Members raised their hands) Do not raise your hands. This is not a high school. Hon. Julius Rutto, Member for Kesses.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) This is your chance, Hon….

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Any Member of the Departmental Committee on Housing, Public Works and Urban Development?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Njeri Maina, Member for Kirinyaga.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next Order. NOTING OF REPORT OF THE KENYAN DELEGATION TO THE 4TH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE EAPA-FSN IN KIGALI, RWANDA The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Do you have a card with you?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Beatrice, do you want to comment on this?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') Which other debate is this? 30th November 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 17 The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng')Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I said that financial matters are difficult. Understanding divestiture and investments may be difficult for many people. The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Kaguchia.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. The Member from Mombasa, Hon. Zamzam Chimba.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Wakili Muriu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, I take it that those whose names appear want to contribute to this. The first chance will then go to the Hon. Charles Kamuren. He is the Chairperson of the Food Security Caucus in the country.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') Hon. Farah.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Odanga, Member for Matayos.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') Leader of the Majority Party.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Buuri.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Who is the seconder?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Putting of the Question on the Report of the House on the National Lottery Bill is deferred to Tuesday afternoon next week. ADOPTION OF SESSIONAL PAPER NO.2 OF 2023: THE NATIONAL TAX POLICY The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Members, debate on this Motion...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Leader of the Majority Party and Member for Kikuyu. We keep losing Kikuyu as a constituency.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Give him a minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thirty seconds.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)Give him a microphone.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you, Leader of the Majority Party. We will wait for Members to come on Tuesday afternoon and do the needful.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you Members, for your industriousness and patience during the Committee of the whole House. I call on the Temporary Chairlady to report to the House.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said, Leader of the Majority Party. I need to inform you that all of us are waiting for the day you will announce the members of the State capture commission. You keep on talking about it. Everyone is asking when it will be...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Leader of the Majority Party, I think the National Assembly was a party to this suit. Advise them to appeal.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I have actually given you ten minutes and you have exhausted the ten already. You have one minute to finish.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I have actually given you ten minutes and you have exhausted the ten already. You have one minute to finish.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you, Leader of the Majority Party. We will wait for Members to come on Tuesday afternoon and do the needful.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said, Leader of the Majority Party. I need to inform you that all of us are waiting for the day you will announce the members of the State capture commission. You keep on talking about it. Everyone is asking when it will be...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thirty seconds.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Give him a minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you Members, for your industriousness and patience during the Committee of the whole House. I call on the Temporary Chairlady to report to the House.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)Give him a microphone.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Putting of the Question on the Report of the House on the National Lottery Bill is deferred to Tuesday afternoon next week. ADOPTION OF SESSIONAL PAPER NO.2 OF 2023: THE NATIONAL TAX POLICY The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Members, debate on this Motion...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Leader of the Majority Party and Member for Kikuyu. We keep losing Kikuyu as a constituency.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Leader of the Majority Party, I think the National Assembly was a party to this suit. Advise them to appeal.

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the National Youth Council (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.1 of 2023) and approved the same with amendments.

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I also want to add my voice to this particular matter and agree with Hon. Otiende that there are issues... 28th November 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 15

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) There are issues we need to address going forward. I was worried when I saw the Bill in the draft Order Paper this morning. I thank you and the House Business Committee for seeing sense in putting the Bill.

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Hon. Speaker, the reason I believe this Bill is very urgent is that sometimes we think about things in a very pedantic way. Kenya is in its present state because we have allowed every Government official to conduct business in every corner. As I said...

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) But Hon. Speaker, the biggest issue... (Loud consultations)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Kaiti.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) There is pressure from other Members to speak. One more minute, Sir.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Kitui Rural, your time is up. This is now the chance for the Member for Mandera West.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, there being no other Member interested in speaking to the Motion, I request the Mover to reply.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I have no comment on that, Hon. Farah. Next is Hon. Salasya.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) You actually have one more minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Laikipia East. The next to speak is Hon. Mwangi Kiunjuri. Your microphone has a problem. Use the one in front of you.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon David Ochieng’) Next is the Member for Kisii, Hon. Donya Dorice. 23rd November 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 53

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Rangwe, please, make your point in two minutes.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Farah, I order that you sit and listen to Hon. Salasya before you leave.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Peugeot 504.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Next is Hon. Farah Maalim, EGH.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Question on this Motion will be put the next time the House sits. (Putting of the Question deferred) ADJOURNMENT The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, the time being 7.00

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Senate amendments to the County Governments Additional Allocations Bill (National Assembly Bill No.23 of 2023) and approved the same with amendments.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) There are two Members remaining who want to contribute to the Motion. I request the next speaker to mind the Member speaking after him, so that all of us can contribute. Member for Sotik.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) How do you define ‘syndicated loans’ again? Did you say they are loans that end up in pockets of individuals?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Farah, you have one more minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Nafasi hii itaenda kwa Mbunge wa Kitui Rural, Mhe. David Mboni.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Kaiti.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) There is pressure from other Members to speak. One more minute, Sir.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Kitui Rural, your time is up. This is now the chance for the Member for Mandera West.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, there being no other Member interested in speaking to the Motion, I request the Mover to reply.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I have no comment on that, Hon. Farah. Next is Hon. Salasya.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) You actually have one more minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Laikipia East. The next to speak is Hon. Mwangi Kiunjuri. Your microphone has a problem. Use the one in front of you.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon David Ochieng’) Next is the Member for Kisii, Hon. Donya Dorice. 23rd November 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 53

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Rangwe, please, make your point in two minutes.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Farah, I order that you sit and listen to Hon. Salasya before you leave.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Peugeot 504.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Next is Hon. Farah Maalim, EGH.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Question on this Motion will be put the next time the House sits. (Putting of the Question deferred) ADJOURNMENT The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, the time being 7.00

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Senate amendments to the County Governments Additional Allocations Bill (National Assembly Bill No.23 of 2023) and approved the same with amendments.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) There are two Members remaining who want to contribute to the Motion. I request the next speaker to mind the Member speaking after him, so that all of us can contribute. Member for Sotik.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) How do you define ‘syndicated loans’ again? Did you say they are loans that end up in pockets of individuals?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Farah, you have one more minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Nafasi hii itaenda kwa Mbunge wa Kitui Rural, Mhe. David Mboni.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Kaiti.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) There is pressure from other Members to speak. One more minute, Sir.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Kitui Rural, your time is up. This is now the chance for the Member for Mandera West.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, there being no other Member interested in speaking to the Motion, I request the Mover to reply.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I have no comment on that, Hon. Farah. Next is Hon. Salasya.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) You actually have one more minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Laikipia East. The next to speak is Hon. Mwangi Kiunjuri. Your microphone has a problem. Use the one in front of you.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon David Ochieng’) Next is the Member for Kisii, Hon. Donya Dorice. 23rd November 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 53

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Rangwe, please, make your point in two minutes.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Farah, I order that you sit and listen to Hon. Salasya before you leave.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Peugeot 504.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Next is Hon. Farah Maalim, EGH.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Question on this Motion will be put the next time the House sits. (Putting of the Question deferred) ADJOURNMENT The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, the time being 7.00

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Senate amendments to the County Governments Additional Allocations Bill (National Assembly Bill No.23 of 2023) and approved the same with amendments.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) There are two Members remaining who want to contribute to the Motion. I request the next speaker to mind the Member speaking after him, so that all of us can contribute. Member for Sotik.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) How do you define ‘syndicated loans’ again? Did you say they are loans that end up in pockets of individuals?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Farah, you have one more minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Nafasi hii itaenda kwa Mbunge wa Kitui Rural, Mhe. David Mboni.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Oundo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Junet, we are serious.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Okay, Hon. Melly. He says your left hand has given to your right hand and then you have put your right hand on the back.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Melly.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) No, he listened to you. He has said in the education sector, the right hand has not taken away from the left hand. In fact, both hands have received Ksh5 billion. (Programmes 0505000, 0507000 and 0508000 agreed to) (Vote 1064 agreed to) VOTE 1065...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Oundo, is that a comment or a question.

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. This Bill is very timely because for this country to survive in the next five or ten years, as a growing concern, depends on how public servants behave. Conflict of interest has been a big issue and it...

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has considered the First Supplementary Estimates for the Financial Year 2023/2024 and approved the same with amendments and, pursuant to the provisions of Article 223 of the Constitution of Kenya, Section 44 of...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. (Programmes 0201000, 0203000, 0204000, 0205000 and 0216000 agreed to) (Vote 1092 agreed to) VOTE 1093 - STATE DEPARTMENT FOR SHIPPING AND MARITIME AFFAIRS VOTE 1094 - STATE DEPARTMENT FOR HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT 16th November 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 51 The Temporary...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Oluoch.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Molo.

Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman (Hon. David Ochieng’)Hon. Rindikiri.