OUNDO, WILBERFORCE OJIAMBO

Thank you, Hon Deputy Speaker. As we debate the Presidential speech as provided for under Article 132 (1) , let me join my colleagues in welcoming back Mhe. Kirwa. We pray that Almighty God gives you strength to recover fully as soon as possible. The Constitution of Kenya under Article...

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. First of all, allow me to continue with the debate initiated by my neighbour. This is Question time and not Debate time. Fine, I will also ask some questions to the Prime Cabinet Secretary on the issue of families crossing the border. One, what efforts is...

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to request the Prime Cabinet Secretary to clarify on two damaging articles that appeared in the New York Times in the course of this week: one reads, “New York Times reveals Kenyan official profiting from workers abuse in Saudi Arabia”; they named insurance companies,...

Hon. Speaker, it is just a matter of procedure. We have raised this in this House numerous times and, unfortunately, our voices have never been heard. I want to address you on two issues. When we were in Naivasha in February, we entered into a gentleman’s agreement that, at no...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I join my colleague in empathising with the victims of the Wagalla Massacre. While working in 2016, I travelled by road from Moyale to Wajir. Along the way, one of the guides showed us the famous Wagalla Airstrip, where the massacre occurred. There was a...

This is my supplementary question. Let me rephrase it.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Let me rephrase my point of concern for further clarification, which might not have an answer now. But when the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs sits, they can apply their minds to it. What can we do as a country? First, we need...

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I rise on a point of order under Standing Orders 181 and 199 of the National Assembly. I would like to go on record... Which Standing Order? Standing Orders 181 and 199, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I raise this with deference and with great respect to my colleagues...

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute. For sure, this Bill has been with us for far too long, but we must get it right. Any unresolved mistake or issue will lead to unnecessary litigation, delaying the intended objective of making it operational. I am attracted...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. When I finish, I will join my colleagues from the World Scout Parliamentary Unit (WSPU) , in a cocktail hosted by the Right Hon. Speaker of the mighty National Assembly of Kenya. Allow me to also make comments on the National Assembly Bill No. 40,...

Precisely.

Precisely, Hon. Temporary Speaker. That is why I said the Bill has contradictions. It talks about funding through money appropriated by the National Assembly. They are saying that they are self-financing and profit- making, and therefore, they intend to put some money in the Exchequer. On that account, Hon. Temporary...

It is okay, Hon. Temporary Speaker. As a teacher, when a brilliant student in class stands up and says he wants to assist you, you listen,

Hon. Temporary Speaker, the Bill, as it is, is well intentioned but has many gaps. I hope that when it went for public participation, the experts and the lay leaders pointed out these gaps. I also want to refer to the point raised by the Member for Mbooni on Clause...

Hon. Speaker, pursuant to the provisions of Standing Order 43, I rise to make a Statement regarding the hosting of the 11th World Scout Parliamentary Union (WSPU) General Assembly scheduled to be held from 6th to 13th November 2025, in Kenya. The World Scout Parliamentary Union (WSPU) is an international...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I empathise with the Vice-Chair for the Statement and being a conveyor belt. I want to bring to his attention, and I hope he is listening, an idea that they can explore at the Committee's level, as well as with the responsible accounting officers and...

Even with those 10,000 police officers…. Yes, 10,000 police officers and 24,000 teachers will be hired. The ratio of police officers to the population is still much lower than the United Nations (UN) standards. We are unlikely to reach a point where you can rely solely on police officers for...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to support this Report, as presented by the Committee on Implementation. I would like to go on record as saying that any system that removes subjectivity and brings objectivity to public finance management and procurement-related activities should be welcomed. This is because we...

Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I also rise to support the two Petitions, particularly Petition No. 22/2025. When the Cabinet Secretary was here yesterday, it seemed like we were talking at cross purposes, as a country. What the Cabinet Secretary and the lecturers are saying are completely different things. We...

On a point of order. What is out of order, Member for Funyula? Hon. Temporary Speaker, I wish to draw your attention to Standing Order 80. If you permit, let me read. This I direct to my colleague who is on the Floor: “No Member shall read a speech, but...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. In the last Parliament, we used to say, “Madam Speaker, Sir.” Let me also join my colleagues in supporting this Bill ―The Intergovernmental Relations (Amendment) Bill (Senate Bill No. 12 of 2024. We established devolution to move activities from the centre to the periphery. We...

Allow me to continue.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, this is a new clause. It is not an amendment to an existing clause. Clause 13 of the Bill reads: "The Principal Act is amended by inserting the following new sections immediately after Section 20." They are inserting Section 20A, which purports to originate from the Senate,...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, you are aware that a Member can stand at any time during debate in the Second Reading and question the constitutionality of a Bill. That is what I am doing. Are you contributing or raising a matter of constitutional importance? I think that is different. I am...

On a point of order, Hon. Deputy Speaker. What is your point of order, Hon. Oundo? Let it be the last one. Hon. Deputy Speaker, we appreciate and respect your ruling because the speaker's ruling cannot be challenged. It is not my ruling. I have read the Standing Orders. I...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Allow me to ask the Cabinet Secretary two questions. Number one is on the issue of capitation. There are many new schools that we have established through the National Government- Constituencies Development Fund (NG-CDF) , which already have a code from the Ministry of Education...

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. What is your point of order? Hon. Temporary Speaker, when you were in the House yesterday, Hon. Donya raised an issue. There was a suggestion that when the Cabinet Secretary comes here, we offer these suggestions to him, so that when he...

Thank you.It is gratifying to note that the Cabinet Secretary is considering alternative means of adjudication so that we do not continue punishing our children and burdening the parents to take kids very far distances. Probably we could also make it a policy to look for the most central places...

As we said earlier, it seems the Cabinet Secretary is under-informed. I do not want to say misinformed. He is under-informed. Frantically, even as today morning, the sub-county director of education of Samia District told the head teacher and the board members, ‘mobilise resources from the community to get yourselves...

I am okay on this issue, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. What is your point of order, Member for Funyula? Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I hope the Cabinet Secretary is not distracted. Do not distract the Cabinet Secretary. Through you, I want to pass a message. Cabinet Secretary, the people of Funyula...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, this is a timely amendment. However, I must note that probably, it is a kind of over-legislation because the Capital Markets Act, the Competition Act, the Trade Remedies Act and a plethora of Acts already provide for such kind of arrangement. But since we have enough paper...

Hon. Chairlady, we need your guidance because similarly, on clause 4, there is an amendment by the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning which seems similar. Then there is this amendment by the Public Debt and Privatisation Committee. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : Member for Funyula, let...

While I support the amendments because they open up to many categories of Kenyans, I do it with reservations because privatisation is an extremely technical process with a whole professional body to deal with it. I am going to use some derogatory statements. Opening up to everybody will overwork or...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, this is also a good amendment but, without anticipating debate, national security interests have not been defined in clause 2. Probably, it would be neater for clarity to clearly define. Otherwise, it will remain very amorphous and difficult to enforce. Probably somewhere, we need to be clear...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I also have an amendment on the same, but now the amendment by the Committee fully addresses our concerns that we had in the Second Reading. I support. When it comes to my amendment, it will go on record that I have withdrawn mine. Or do you...

Let me also join the Leader of the Majority Party in commending the drafters on the issue of, 'reservations or proposed amendments'. Hon. Temporary Chairlady, it speaks to the provisions and the spirit of Article 111 (5) where it was never intended that anybody else could make law. The same...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I want the Mover to listen very carefully. In Clause 25, the words used are 'reservations or proposed amendments'. In Clause 26

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 29 of the Bill be amended in subclause (1) by deleting the word “eight” appearing immediately after the word “exceeding” and substituting therefore the word “five”.The amendment will reduce the privatisation programme from the lengthy eight years to a reasonable period...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, when I saw the proposal in the Bill, I was left wondering how enforceable it is. If it goes for an Initial Public Offer (IPO) and is listed on the Nairobi Stock Exchange, I do not know what miracles or safeguards we can put in place to...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I had a similar amendment. I am happy the Committee consulted widely and saw the need of having an interim or an initial evaluation report. An investment proposal without a valuation report is hoodwinking Kenyans. I have been in this space for long. They started privatisation in...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I have dropped the amendments so that we can move on. (Proposed amendments by Hon. (Dr) Oundo dropped) (Question, that words to be inserted be inserted, put and agreed to) (Clause 35 as amended agreed to) Clause 36 The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : Member for...

This is a very well-thought-out amendment. We can probably go further. However, in the fullness of time, even where they have other companies that have got beneficial interest... Let me put it very clearly. For example, an entity that is beeing privatised has bought shares at the Nairobi Stock Exchange...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. I had actually wanted to move an amendment to the clause, but I hesitated because, many times, matters dealing with finance or money Bills require approval from the National Treasury. So, it might have been rejected. However, I think this is a very good amendment....

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, at least now we are a listening Parliament. We raised these concerns during the Second Reading and it is good that it has been addressed. My only point of discomfort was another layer. Privatisation is a timely assignment and the process through a tribunal, the High Court...

Chairman, we need clarification in view of the amendments we made in Clause 10, which deleted possession of a degree in either economics, accounting, finance, or another relevant degree from a recognised institution or having 10 years of work experience, of which five shall be at a senior management level....

No. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : We did not get you. Go again.

Hon. Temporary Chairman, it is not true. Allow the Chairman and the Leader of the Majority Party to consult the technical team just for a second, so that we can get clarity. There seems to be a contradiction … The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : There is confusion. Yes,...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, New Clause 37A provides for instances where Parliament will extend the period of doing anything that was required for under the Act, for circumstances beyond its control or other emerging issues. The justification the Chairman has given is completely misplaced and wrong. But as we said, we...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, perhaps, we need to seek their way of thinking with the Leader of the Majority Party because I had raised the issue of the definition of ‘national security interests’ when we were debating clause 21. I thought it would have been right to seek clarity and have...

I second. (Question proposed)

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Let me also comment on the NYOTA Programme. Our youth in this country who did not have the ability to go to universities and the premier colleges and those who are disposed towards entrepreneurship and business have been routinely left out. Uwezo Fund and the...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I stand to sympathise with my colleague because when road designs are made, they must accommodate every aspect of the road. Those of us who are old like you, remember the story of Kipipiri where electricity poles were dropped and taken away immediately after the...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The beauty of our new Constitution is that any member of the public can petition Parliament on any matter falling under the sun. The Petition has raised pertinent issues. Many of us have listened to the Petition. We are, to the very least, baffled that...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I want to be very clear from the onset. Unlike what my colleagues are alluding to, we are dealing with a Sessional Paper. Our Report on a Sessional Paper is not a privatisation proceeding, in respect of the privatisation of the KPC. People need to...