Murungi Kathuri

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me also take this opportunity to welcome the students from Egerton University in Nakuru County. Happy to have you here today. I wish you all the best. Whatever you learn from here, may it help you achieve what you are looking for. Thank you, so...

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the opportunity. I also stand to join the other Senators who have spoken before me to congratulate the Committee on Energy on the Report on the inquiry into the high cost of electricity in the country. One of the things in the Kenya...

Sen. Sifuna, please proceed.

Thank you, Sen. Sifuna. Next is Sen. Wakili Sigei.

Thank you Senator. Next is Sen. Veronica Maina.

Just a minute, Sen. Veronica Maina. What is your point of order, Sen. Cherarkey?

This shows that you really doubt what you heard. Perhaps, Sen. Veronica Maina can make a clarification.

Proceed, Sen. Joe Nyutu.

Next Order. THE WATER (AMENDMENT) BILL (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY BILLS NO.33 OF 2023) Thank you. Hon. Senators, on this Bill which is a resumption of debate interrupted on Thursday, 30th November, 2023, from my records, Sen. Oketch Gicheru had a balance of two minutes. If you are ready to proceed with...

Kindly start driving, I will see whether you are engaging the gears.

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, as a legislator, you have all the powers to come up with the possible amendments that you might like this Senate to consider. You have that benefit. You have keenly gone through the report. So, come up with those amendments or issues that you need to be...

Thank you. Sen. Oketch Gicheru, I can see you are on the queue and you have already spoken to this Bill. Proceed, Sen. Wamatinga.

Thank you. Next is Sen. Olekina, the Minority Whip.

Sen. Olekina, there is a point of order from Sen. Kinyua. What is your point of order, Sen. Kinyua?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, when Sen. Wamatinga finished his statement, he said ‘with amendment.’ I do not know whether he is not agreeing. Which Standing Order are you using to prosecute your point of order?

Which Standing Order are you using to prosecute your point?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, my point is clear. We are debating. So, it is for me to either agree or reject. In my debate, I pointed out clearly that what my good friend, the Chairman of the Committee on Energy has said, does not hold any water. He said that...

Sen. Olekina, you may proceed to clarify, if you have to.

He has accepted. That is the point of information.

Sen. Wamatinga, you must seek his consent. Has he accepted to be informed?

[The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Wakili Sigei) in the Chair]

Thank you, Sen. Tabitha Keroche. Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Agriculture is not present. Chairperson, Standing Committee on National Cohesion, please proceed. ACTIVITIES OF THE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL COHESION, EQUAL OPPORTUNITY AND REGIONAL INTEGRATION

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I will try to limit to the extent of the time line that you have indicated. Hon. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.56 (1) (b) of the Senate Standing Orders to make a Statement relating to the activities of the...

Thank you, Chairperson of Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights (JLAHR) . Next, is the Chairperson of Committee on Trade, Industrialization and Tourism. ACTIVITIES OF THE COMMITTEE ON TRADE, INDUSTRIALIZATION AND TOURISM

Thank you, Chairman. Chairman Standing Committee on Tourism, Trade and Industrialisation, kindly table the Report. (Sen. Seki laid the document on the Table) Next is the Chairperson of National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations. ACTIVITIES OF THE COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY, DEFENCE AND FOREIGN RELATIONS

[The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) left the Chair] ACTIVITIES OF THE COMMITTEE ON ROADS, TRANSPORTATION AND HOUSING

The next Statement is by the Chairperson of the Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights ACTIVITIES OF THE COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE, LEGAL AFFAIRS AND HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVITIES OF THE COMMITTEE ON LABOUR AND SOCIAL WELFARE

Thank you. Next is Statement under Standing Order No. 57 (1) . The Senate Majority Leader. (Sen. Cheruiyot consulted with Sen. Methu) Sen. Methu, you are out of order. I can see you are on an intervention for a point of order. What is your point of order?

Thank you, Senate Majority Leader. Hon. Senators, you will allow me to re-organize the Order Paper. What is it, Sen. Cherarkey?

Sen. Cherarkey, your time is up. Sen. Orwoba, you have the Floor.

Sen. Kisang’, you may proceed.

Sen. Cheruiyot, you have the Floor.

I hope that has gotten to the Chairpersons. That is the language we speak in the Liaison Committee. Let me give the last two. . Mungatana, please proceed then the last one will be Sen. Crystal Asige.

Sen. Crystal Asige, please proceed.

Sen. Crystal Asige, you asked for some direction from the Chair. If your Statement was under Standing Order No.53 (1) , then you get your response from the relevant committee. The Statement under Standing Order No.52 (1) is like a personal Statement. So, you should not be worried. Your Statement...

That is what I am saying will be replied to by the relevant Committee on Education. Hon. Senators, I want to reorganise our business this afternoon. Business appearing as Order Nos.8,9,10,11,12,13 and 14 will be handled in the next sitting and are therefore deferred. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE THE EQUALIZATION...

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, what is your point of order?

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, that is a point of information.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you should not talk to your colleague directly. I am not here by chance, but to moderate the debate. If you start communicating with your colleague directly, you better tell me to go pluck tea in Meru.

Sen. Faki, you may have the Floor.

What is your point of order, Sen. Cherarkey?

Sen. Cherarkey, Members of the Committee also have a lot of information that you do not have. Balancing the two sides is better, so that Members can also benefit from those who did the investigation. Leave that to me. I do not want to explain what I am doing here....

Samahani Sen. Faki. Kuna hoja ya nidhamu. Sen. Cherarkey.

Sen. Cherarkey, I was trying to listen to Sen. Faki on whether he was talking about the conduct of Cabinet Secretary, Prof. Kithure Kindiki. He has only mentioned an observation that is in this Report but he has not gone in the area of discussing his conduct. Sen. Faki, do...

Sen. Faki, malizia.

Sen. Sifuna, what is it?

Sen. Sifuna, if you also check Standing Order No.101, you can raise a substantive Motion in this House to discuss the conduct of another Senator. You can have that list for us to discuss them and put them in order. So, you have that space to do that. No point...

Senate Majority Leader, please proceed.

Proceed, Sen. Mungatana.

Thank you, Senate Majority Leader. The Ad hoc Committees actually belongs to the Liaison Committee. They are born in the Liaison Committee. The Liaison Committee finances the Ad hoc committees. To make sure that the money given by Liaison Committee is properly utilised, they should report back to that committee,...

That is fair enough, but to satisfy the Liaison Committee that you have concluded your work, they need the whole Report from the Ad hoc Committee, and then they can give recommendations to the various standing committees. Do you have a problem reporting to the Liaison Committee?Am with you also...

Yes, Senate Majority Leader.

Maybe for future reference, when our children and grandchildren shall be reading this Report, they will never tell where Sen. Mungatana was serving. The secretary should note that this is the Senator for Tana River County. All these names are just blank. That is my observation as the Chair. I...

The Temporary Chairperson, Committee of the Whole, please, report progress.

Thank you. Let us have the Mover of the Equalization Fund Appropriation Bill (Senate Bills No.3 of 2023)

Who is seconding the Bill?

Hon. Senators, I want to reorganize our business this afternoon. I therefore defer Orders No. 9, 10,11,12,13 and 14. We proceed to the next order. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE THE COUNTY LICENSING (UNIFORM PROCEDURE) BILL (SENATE BILLS NO.9 OF 2022) COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE THE AGRICULTURAL AND LIVESTOCK EXTENSION SERVICES...

[The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Mumma) in the Chair]

Hon. Senators, we are now reporting progress on all the Bills, starting with the County Licensing (Uniform Procedure) Bill (Senate Bills No.9 of 2022) . Proceed, the Chairperson, Sen. Abdul Haji.

The Mover, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Who is seconding?

The second Bill is The Agricultural and Livestock Extension Services Bill (Senate Bills No.12 of 2022) . Proceed, Chairperson.

The Mover, Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, is not in the House. The Majority Whip, you can move on her behalf.

Who is your seconder?

Thank you. (Question proposed) (Question put and agreed to) THE MUNG BEANS BILL (SENATE BILLS NO. 13 OF 2022) Now, we go to The Mung Beans Bill (Senate Bills No.13 of 2022) . Proceed, the Chairperson.

The Mover.

Sen. Ogola.

Now, we go to The Start-Up Bill (Senate Bills No.14 of 2022) . The Chairperson, you may proceed.

Mover, Sen. Crystal Asige.

We move to The Persons with Disabilities Bill (Senate Bills No.7 of 2023) . Chairperson, proceed. THE PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES BILL (SENATE BILLS NO.7 OF 2023)

Mover, Sen. Crystal Asige.

We move to the last one, The Kenyan Sign Language Bill (Senate Bills No.9 of 2023) . Chairperson proceed. THE KENYAN SIGN LANGUAGE BILL (SENATE BILLS NO. 9 OF 2023)

Mover, Sen. (Prof.) Kamar.

Sen. Crystal Asige, proceed.

Clerk, let us move to the next Order. REPOSSESSION OF MOVABLE ASSETS BY LENDING INSTITUTIONS DUE TO NON-PERFORMING LOANS In the last sitting, Sen. (Dr.) Oburu had a balance of 11 minutes. If he is in the Chamber, he can take advantage of this. If not, any other Senator can...

Next Order. ADOPTION OF REPORT ON THE PROLIFERATION OF RELIGIOUS ORGANISATIONS more than 95 deaths in Shakahola, Kilifi County laid on the Table of the Senate on Thursday, 19th October, 2023. The Mover of this Motion, Sen. Mungatana who was chairing the Ad Hoc Committee has a balance of 25...

Sen. Tabitha Mutinda, you may have the Floor.

Thank you, Sen. Tabitha Mutinda. (Question proposed) I can see Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale intends to contribute to this. Please, proceed.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I can see that our time for this session is up. You will have a balance of 19 minutes when we resume the next sitting. ADJOURNMENT

Clerk, confirm whether we have quorum? (The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted the Deputy Speaker) Serjeant-at-Arms, ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) What is the situation now Clerk? Are we okay? (The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted with the Deputy Speaker) Ring the Quorum Bell again for another 10 minutes....

Cabinet Secretary, it is your turn now to respond to the Member. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen) : Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is always very nostalgic to be back home. I consider the Senate my home even more than the Ministry where I...

Okay. You now have the opportunity to ask two questions. Maybe you can allow other Members to ask their questions, if you want to settle down first. Sen. Seki, proceed.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary (CS) , please, respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first of all, this is part of the roads in the country that were constructed under low volume seal. You will agree with me that almost all counties, including...

Hon. CS, please, respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the El Nino phenomena is a big problem now, and this is a whole topic on its own. The northern part of the country is severely affected. The North Eastern part of...

Cabinet Secretary, that is a very direct question. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is not that I do not want to answer the question. However, I need your guidance even if it is not now, but for future. Is there...

I think that is a similar question that Sen. Seki had asked. However, I can give just one minute on that dilapidated road. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen) : It is not true, as the Senator has said, that KeNHA did part of the road. The...

Cabinet Secretary, you may respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen) : Following your directions, I will just be brief. That road is extremely important; it is strategic. Konza Techno Polis is a Silicon Savannah and it is very important for us to make sure that we...

Sen. Tobiko, I also want to understand. Do you mean the road is continuous from the Ukambani side, crosses the tarmac and then the other side is continuous?

Sen. Kavindu Muthama, that was a point of information not a point of order. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I agree with Sen. Tobiko that a number of roads have been done in Machakos County on the left side of...

Hon. Cabinet Secretary proceed. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen) : The bypass from Kitengela to Rongai is about 24 kilometers. It is at the design stage. At the moment we are at the same fate; we want to see how to raise funds. Initially in the...

Proceed, Hon. Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I agree with the Senator of Tharaka-Nithi County, my friend Sen. Gataya Mo Fire. I have visited that road and his village when he was the Member of County Assembly (MCA) of...

Order, Sen. Dullo. Sen. Gataya Mo Fire cannot concentrate.

Hon. Cabinet Secretary, proceed. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, while I may not have an answer to why Tharaka Nithi County has been marginalized in the past, I have seen some people being jittery when I attribute the historical problems like...

Hon. Senators, we are doing so well. In the next 10 minutes, I will open the Floor up to 11.30 a.m. for Senators to ask any general supplementary questions. Cabinet Secretary, this is a direct one again. Please respond in two minutes. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon....

Okay, ask Question No.060. COMMENCEMENT OF UPGRADING OF MURURI-KIUMBU ROAD IN MWEA CONSTITUENCY

The Cabinet Secretary, please respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to state that the project for upgrading to bitumen standards of Sagana-Kathaka-Thiguku/Mururi–Urumandi-Ngucui-Mahigaiini-Nyamindi- Kianugu-Kiumbu all the way to Kangaita roads has commenced. However, the project has registered a slower...

The Cabinet Secretary, please respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, on the compensation, I will follow up with Kenya National Highways Authority (KENHA) as to how many people have been documented to be compensated. These are the roads that form the...

Cabinet Secretary, please respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen): Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am pleased to appraise this House on the information sought regarding the status of the upgrading of Kakamega Airstrip to an international airport as requested by Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale and...

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, can you be very specific on your question, not the history of voting.

Not the history of voting and what happened, just go specifically to what you need to be addressed.

The best is to wait for the answer. You wait for it, then later on, you can react to it. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have maximum respect for Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, not just because we served together in this...

Hon. CS, please proceed. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I thank my learned friend, Senator of Nairobi City County, for the clarification. I understood you initially to be asking about the passengers that are arriving. You mean the passengers that are...

I know you are talking to the people of Kakamega County, but the CS has requested Kakamega County leadership to have a meeting. That is where you can converse all these things.

Let us conclude that matter. What we can say is that your question is not satisfactorily answered. Then we have another opportunity for the CS to answer. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen) : Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, two things: One, I appreciate the passion demonstrated by...

Kindly take two minutes, maximum. The Cabinet Secretary for Roads and Transport (Hon. Murkomen) : Okay, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. First of all, I thank my--- Cabinet Secretary, you know these are issues on El Nino. Just give a statement that will cover all the issues of El Nino. The...

Serjeant-at-Arms, ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) I can confirm that we now have quorum. Clerk, please proceed to call the first Order. COMMUNICATIONS FROM THE CHAIR STATE OF THE NATION ADDRESS TO PARLIAMENT BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT PLENARY SITTINGS TO CONSIDER PROPOSED...

Senate Minority Leader, you now have permission to second. I had not given you. Proceed. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) : I thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the guidance. I do agree with what my brother, Sen. Cheruiyot has said. (Question proposed) Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, the Senate...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, is the Senate Majority Whip in order to revisit a debate which was closed on Tuesday, this week, as to whether we go Plenary or Committee? A resolution of the House was made that we go the Plenary way and there is no need to revisit...

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, in the Communication from the Chair on that day, he advised Members not go into the substance of that Motion before it gets to the day appointed for that discussion.

Sen. Tabitha Mutinda.

Sen. Wafula.

Okay. Let me test the mood. Hon. Senators, the mood in this House is that Members want to close this debate. I want to put the question whether you agree with that position, so that we have democracy in this House.I will, therefore, put the question. Okay. Let me test...

Sen. Osotsi, order! There is a point of order from Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, have your seat. The hon. Senator has not mentioned any individual during his presentation. He was giving the qualities of a good Speaker. He did not mention any Speaker by name. If he had targeted me; he would not be speaking now. Conclude your comment in one...

Sen. Osotsi, this Petition is on academic qualifications. Comment on whether the issues raised are okay or not so that we make progress. Proceed to conclude in the next 30 seconds.

Hon. Senators, according to our Standing Orders, comments on a Petition should not take more than 30 minutes from the Members interested in making their comments. If we allow free discussion, only two or three Members will give their comments. Members, strictly use two minutes to make your comments. Sen....

What is your point of clarification, Sen. Sifuna?

Sen. Sifuna, this is a special session because of the business we have in the Order Paper. I am trying to help you so that you can make your comments. Sen. Mandago, are you ready? Sen. Cherarkey, proceed to make your comments.

There is a point of order from Sen. Dullo.

Sen. Cherarkey, use parliamentary language. Withdraw that statement.

Sen. Wambua, proceed.

Thank you, Senator. However, this is not a Motion. This is a Petition and I am allowing Members to comment. Checking on the list, as the Chair, I should balance issues. Sen. Tobiko, proceed.

Your time is up. Sen. Sifuna, you may have the Floor.

Sen. Kisang, you may have the Floor.

Sen. (Dr.) Oburu, you may have the Floor.

Sen. Abass, you may have the Floor.

Sen. Oketch Gicheru, you may have the Floor.

Sen. Mandago, you have the Floor.

(Applause)

(Applause)(Laughter) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Looking at the Constitution of Kenya, it has specified that the Chief Justice must be properly schooled in law. That is one arm of Government. The other arm of Government, the Executive; the President must have a degree. What is wrong in insisting...

(Loud Consultations)

Sen. Veronica Maina, you are accused of misleading the nation and the House.

(The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted with the Deputy Speaker) Hon. Senators, pursuant to Standing Order No.238(1), the Petition is committed to the Committee on Justice, Legal Affairs and Human Rights. In terms of Standing Order No. 238 (2), the Committee is required in not more than 60 calendar days from the time...

Thank you. I want to give two or three Senators an opportunity to make brief comments. Proceed, Sen. Maanzo.

(Applause)

Sen. Chute, I am not comfortable with the words you are using to describe those contractors.

Can you use better wording to express yourself?

[The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Veronica Maina) in the Chair]