Murungi Kathuri

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Senators, I confirm that we have quorum. Let us transact Business. Madam Clerk, please proceed. Let hear from the Senate Majority Whip. PAPERS LAID AUDITOR GENERAL REPORTS ON FINANCIAL STATEMENTS OF VARIOUS ENTITIES

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Do you have any more Papers lay on the Table?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Next order. STATEMENTS The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) We have several Statements under Standing Order No. 53 (1) . According to the Order Paper, the first Statement was to be made by the Senator of Marsabit County, Sen. Chute. He has requested that his Statement...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, Sen. Oyomo. The Statement stands committed to the Standing Committee on Lands, Environment and Natural Resources. (The Statement was committed to the Standing Committee on Lands, Environment and Natural Resources) The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Yes, Sen. Cherarkey.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri): Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I respect your ruling on Members riding on Statements. I also respect the fact that you also recognize that at times, hon. Members, might not have a chance to attend the Committee proceedings. Therefore, when they ride on a...

Hon. Senators, Sen. Cherarkey has actually pointed out that we are trying to avoid many comments during Statements. If you can attend Committee sessions where Ministry officials are invited, then you can execute all the issues raised when Statement are read. It will save us on time.Let me balance this...

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I respect your ruling on Members riding on Statements. I also respect the fact that you also recognize that at times, hon. Members, might not have a chance to attend the Committee proceedings. Therefore, when they ride on a Statement, they are also able...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Cheptumo, what is your point of order?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)(Applause) (Laughter)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Madzayo, your Statement stands committed to the Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations. (The Statement was committed to the Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations) (Interruption of debate on Statements) (Laughter) DROUGHT AND FAMINE IN KILIFI COUNTY The...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me take this opportunity to welcome the pupils and teachers of Oldonyo Nyokie Primary School. I appreciate them for having time to be with us today because they are here on a tour to the Senate. I would like to introduce myself to them because...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to join my colleagues in the Senate to welcome the young people and their teachers and parents. I have never said hello to the young people who have been visiting the Senate. Today, I felt it necessary to...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I have not stopped counting. It is wrong for these children of Maasai origin to leave this House thinking that they come from a remote area. The words “remote area” are colonial lyrics. The whites thought that people living far away from Nairobi and cities...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)(Loud consultations) DROUGHT SITUATION IN KAJIADO COUNTY

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations regarding the drought situation that has adversely affected the people, livestock and wildlife in Kajiado County. In the Statement, the Committee should- (Loud...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you. The Statement stands committed to the Standing Committee on National Security, Defense and Foreign Relations. Let us have a few comments. We will start with Sen. Maanzo. (The Statement was committed to the Standing Committee on National Security, Defense and Foreign Relations)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Ali Roba. You have two minutes to make your comments on the Statement. Those are enough.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Give him one minute to conclude. Go straight to the point.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Yes!

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Onyonka, you have one minute to conclude.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you have got additional two minutes because you are a ranking Member of the House. However, there is no constituency called Nyambene in Meru. It is just an area.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda, do you want to make a comment on this Statement about SRC?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Mandago, proceed. I am almost concluding on this matter.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Osotsi, proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Korir, you may proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Oketch Gicheru, you may proceed. We will listen to the Senate Minority Leader after that.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also want to echo the sentiments of my colleague on this issue of SRC. This House is a replica of the county assemblies. What we are getting in this House should be reflect the county assemblies. Removing the car grants for the said members is...

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We should not be calling for the disbandment of SRC because their action affects us. Out here, matters like these; salaries and benefits that go to politicians, becomes a very emotive issue. This Gazette Notice calls upon the relevant Committee to come up with...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Are you also requesting for 30 seconds?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)Okay, conclude then kindly.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Okay. Lastly, the Senate Minority Leader. Give him four minutes if he will need. However, if you are comfortable with two minutes, well and good. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) : Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika. Jambo la kwanza ni kwamba naonelea hili Bunge la...

It is very important that we have the relevant Committee bring this Chairperson to the entire House to explain to us why and where she get these powers to reduce the salaries of MPs, Senators and the MCAs without consultation with the Members. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)(Applause)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)Ni Bi. Mengich.(Loud consultations) The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I had said you were the last contributor on this Statement. However, I can see the Chairperson of the Committee on Delegated

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) What is your point of order, Sen. Korir?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sorry! Who did you say brought the Statement?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Yes, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Sen. Faki is my good friend of mine. I would want to know the response of the Commission on this matter. Secondly, has it been implemented? Is it in order for us to call her here, when we have the...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) , to seek a Statement from the Committee on Labour and Social Welfare, on the status of white card or casual employees laid off in 2009, during a restructuring exercise undertaken...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Just a minute, Senator. Resume your seat. When any Member is on the Floor, you should resume your seat and then wait. October 27, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 25 The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Let us proceed to the other Statements and I will now be...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir for indulging me. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations regarding the insecurity situation in Kisumu County. In the Statement, the Committee should...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you. The Statement is referred to the Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources. (The Statement was committed to the Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources) HUMAN RESOURCE AUDIT PROCESS IN VIHIGA COUNTY

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, can I proceed with my next Statement? INCESSANT HUMAN-WILDLIFE CONFLICT IN LAIKIPIA COUNTY

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Land, Environment and Natural Resources on the incessant human-wildlife conflict in Laikipia County. In the Statement, the committee should- The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I appreciate the opportunity that you have given me to comment on this emotive matter. It is an issue that we have been dealing with for over two decades. The biggest challenge that we have, which all of us...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No. 52 (1) to make a Statement on a matter of general topical concern, namely; the plight of farmers whose crops are being destroyed by the ongoing illegal grazing in Laikipia County. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Laikipia County boasts of...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Olekina, resume your sit. Sen. Kinyua, proceed and finish.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is a point of debate. It will be wrong for anybody to control how I debate in this House unless I am imputing improper--- (Loud consultations) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we had the same kind of Statement that came from...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) You have 22 seconds.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)I request that we be objective when committing this Statement. Let us also consider those people because they are Kenyans and taxpayers just like others. These are the liberties and rights that I am prepared to pursue the rest of my life. Our people shall be...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is very sad. In the meaning of Standing Order Nos.121 and 122, the hon. Member has been disorderly under Standing Order No.121 and grossly disorderly under Standing Order No.122. (Applause) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, it is a little bit hypocritical...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the respect of this House, the Chair must order the Member to withdraw, apologize and seeing his arrogance, if he fails to do so, throw him out. Those are our Standing Orders. Yeah. (Applause) On a point of order, Mr....

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is very sad. In the meaning of Standing Order Nos.121 and 122, the hon. Member has been disorderly under Standing Order No.121 and grossly disorderly under Standing Order No.122. (Applause)

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)[The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) left the Chair] [The Temporary Speaker (Sen. Wakili Sigei) in the Chair]

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for the respect of this House, the Chair must order the Member to withdraw, apologize and seeing his arrogance, if he fails to do so, throw him out. Those are our Standing Orders. Yeah. (Applause) The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I dispensed of...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Senators, I have confirmed that we have quorum. So, let us transact business. PAPERS LAID AUDITOR-GENERAL REPORTS ON FINANCIAL STATEMENTS OF VARIOUS ENTITIES

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Senators, we have two Notices of Motions. Let us start with the one by Sen. M. Kajwang’. INTEGRATING CLIMATE EDUCATION INTO NATIONAL EDUCATION CURRICULUM

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you. Let us move to the next Notice of Motion by Sen. Mungatana. EFFECTS OF UPSTREAM ACTIVITIES ON RIVER TANA TO RESIDENTS OF TANA DELTA

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, Sen. Mungatana. Next Order. STATEMENTS The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Let us get Statements under Standing Order No. 52 (1) . Senator for Migori County, Sen. Oketch Gicheru, proceed. Are you ready?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Yes, Senator for Nairobi City County. October 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 5

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Senator for Nairobi City County, Sen. Sifuna, what is the Chair supposed to do after the hour, before we get to the next Order, when he is presiding and he has been given 20 Statements? Is he supposed to stop the Statements after one hour?...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed Senator, you have the Floor. CONCERN OVER PREDATORY ASSET-BASED LENDING BY MICRO-LENDING COMPANIES IN KENYA

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Okay. The Statement from Sen. Oketch Gicheru stands committed to the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget. (The Statement was committed to the Standing Committee on Finance and Budget)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Cherarkey, what is out of order?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Senators, before we go the Statements under Standing Order No.53 (1) , let us have the personal Statement from Sen. Murkomen, the former Senate Majority Leader and now a Cabinet Secretary. Waziri karibu. (Laughter) PERSONAL STATEMENT FAREWELL SPEECH BY CS FOR ROADS AND TRANSPORT NOMINEE,...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, Sen. Murkomen. October 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 13 The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)It is not a tradition of this House to allow debate on personal statements. Standing Order No.58 states as follows-“During Statements Hour, a Senator may, by the indulgence of the Senate,...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Senators, let us take at least two minutes each, so that we can make progress.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Just a minute. Sen. M. Kajwang’, are you on a point of order?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Okay. Proceed, Sen. Tabitha Keroche.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sorry, but you have conveyed a wonderful message to Sen. Murkomen. Sen. Maanzo, kindly proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I hope Sen. Murkomen has written the roads that you have mentioned. (Laughter)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Onyonka.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you. Proceed, Sen. Wamatinga.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Senators, I can see that there is a lot of interest in wishing our brother, Sen. Murkomen, well wishes. I will give more Members an opportunity to speak for them to bid him farewell. It is as if the mood of the House is...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Your time is up. The message is at home. (Laughter)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Asante. Sen. Gataya, you may proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Wakili Sigei, you may proceed. October 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 19

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Omogeni, proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Your time is up. Sen. Abass, you may proceed. Sorry, Sen. Abass. Before you proceed, I can see Senators from the right-hand side trying to wink at me while others are flashing their eyes. (Laughter)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Senators, at this juncture, you will allow me to give a chance to two more Members, especially the leadership. This is so that we have some other business conducted. Sen. Murkomen, you know, these Senators want to wish you well. Just accept that we...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Your time is up. If I do not give other Senators an opportunity to mention their roads, then I will be doing a lot of disservice to them and their constituents. They might say it is only Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale who mentioned his roads and...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Sifuna, proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) He cannot refuse your point of information.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Okay. Sen. Boy, proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Mandago, proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Montet Betty, please proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Ali Roba, kindly proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Let us now have Sen. Okiya Omtatah, party leader.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Senators, when the Senator for Busia is happy, everybody is happy. We need to conclude on this. We will have two more Senators. Sen. Methu and Sen. Shakila Abdalla on this side.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Shakila Abdalla, please proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Madzayo, the Senate Minority Leader. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) : Bw. Naibu Spika, asante kwa kunipa nafasi hii. Jambo la kwanza, nampa kongole ndugu yangu Sen. Murkomen, kwa kuteuliwa kama Waziri. Hatimaye, Bunge la Kitaifa limepitisha kwamba anafaa na anastahili kuwa...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)(Laughter)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)Hiyo ni sawa. Tafadhali,(Laughter)

Tafadhali, naomba dakika tano, Bw. Naibu Spika. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Ushamaliza dakika mbili, zimebakia mbili. The Senate Minority Leader (

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Faki, wants you to give me one hour. I do need that. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Senate Majority Leader.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, the Senate Majority Leader. Sen. Murkomen, at least we have one thing in common; both of us are born from men of God. I am also a son of Rev. Erastus Murungi. So, bear that in mind even when we meet in the...

Sen. Faki, wants you to give me one hour. I do need that. October 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 30

The point I was making is that, as a House, we demanded to sit in the County Roads, Transport and Public Works Committee as Senators. This is because we cannot oversight the operation of the county governments, if the situation is such that roads are done by the county governments...

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I just want to congratulate the Hon. CS and remind him that he is holding a very vital docket in our country. It is a docket that has a great ripple effect across other development spectrum in the whole country. I also want to...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Let us have the last contribution from Sen. Oyomo. (Laughter)

Okay. The only thing I want to ask from Bw. Waziri is an appointment so that I can discuss all these issues. October 26, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 32

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you. Sen. Murkomen, proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Senators, I confirm that we have quorum. Mr. Clerk, please proceed with the Business of the House. PAPERS LAID AUDITOR GENERAL REPORTS ON FINANCIAL STATEMENTS OF VARIOUS ENTITIES

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) The next Order is Notice of Motion. Let us proceed to the next Order if Sen. M. Kajwang’ is not around. STATEMENTS October 25, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 3 The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)Sen. Cherarkey, please issue your Statement under Standing Order No.52(1). DEATH OF MR....

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I can see several requests. Is it concerning the Statement on Mr. Waruinge? Sen. Kinyua, please proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Mungatana, MGH, please proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Osotsi.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Sifuna.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Just a minute. I need to offer guidance to the Senator for Lamu County. Senator, you cannot cross the Floor in that way. Please go up to the bar, bow and then cross to the other side. (Sen. Githuku proceeded to the bar and bowed)...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Kinyua, what is out of order?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, the Senate Majority Whip, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, you are an old Member of this House. You should not listen to non-essentials.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) That is the reason as to why I told you two weeks ago, make your Statement looking directly into my eyes and not Sen. Sifuna’s. October 25, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 7

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Let us get the last contribution from Sen. Maanzo.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) We are still under Statements under Standing Order No. 52 (1) . Let me call out again the Senator for Kisumu County, Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda. BORDER DISPUTE BETWEEN KISUMU, NANDI AND KERICHO COUNTIES

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) There is a point of order from, Sen. Cherarkey.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda, do you attend baby showers? (Laughter)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) You were mentioning the Senate Majority Leader without any good reason. Avoid that. I was a bit lenient, but I am now observant. Okay. Proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) This Statement has elicited a lot of interest. We will start with Sen. Thang’wa. (Sen. Cherarkey spoke off record) The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I cannot see him. Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, what is it?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Cheruiyot, you have the Floor. October 25, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 11

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Cherarkey, your name was not mentioned but Nandi County. Okay, you have the Floor.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Let me take two comments from this side and one more from the other side. Proceed, Sen. Osotsi.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Cheptumo.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I ruled that you must also quote the Standing Order that you are using to rise.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Cheptumo. Kindly, let us make comments on these Statements to support. Let us not debate them for five minutes.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Yes, Sen. Osotsi.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Cheptumo.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Cheptumo. He is okay. (Laughter)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Nyamu, just walk back to the Bar and bow to the Chair. (Sen. Nyamu went to the Bar and bowed to the Chair) Proceed, Sen Cheptumo. October 25, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 16

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) That was brought to my attention by a Senator on this side.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) You will now have two minutes each. Sen. Wambua and Sen. Olekina will have two minute each while Sen. Oketch Gacheru will have one minute.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Oketch Gicheru.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I hope you will do it in one minute.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) This issue on boundaries is very emotive. As Members have indicated, there are so many boundary disputes across counties. As I refer this Statement to the relevant Committees, I will encourage as many Members as possible to raise similar Statements so that they can be...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Let me give chance to one more Senator. Sen. Kavindu Muthama, kindly proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) No, we concluded on that Statement unless it is on another one---

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Kavindu Muthama, I was keenly following this list. It is a long list. You were somewhere within the list, but a bit---

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Never doubt me when I am in this Chair. (Applause)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Senate Minority Leader, you also want to welcome the students? You may proceed. October 25, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 20 The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo): Asante, Bw. Naibu Spika kwa kunipa nafasi hii.Ninawakaribisha wanafunzi na waalimu. Najiunga nawe pia kuwaambia, “karibuni...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)(Applause)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)Sporadic bandits’ attacks in several parts of Samburu County have become the norm and the county residents are living in total fear of the attacks. In a span of just one week, a bandit has led to the loss of lives of five family members.Apart from...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also rise pursuant to the Standing Order No.52 (1) to make a Statement on the matter of countywide concern, regarding the insecurity situation in Samburu County. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, months ago, Samburu County has been embroiled in bloody conflict and rising cases of cattle...

Sporadic bandits’ attacks in several parts of Samburu County have become the norm and the county residents are living in total fear of the attacks. In a span of just one week, a bandit has led to the loss of lives of five family members.Apart from the recent incident that...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Statement by Senator for Marsabit, Hon. Chute, is a matter that needs to be discussed. As the Chairperson of that Committee, we are already handling another matter where we have invited NHIF. We shall be inviting NHIF to discuss with...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) That Statement stands committed to the Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations. (The Statement was committed to the Standing Committee on National Security, Defence and Foreign Relations) Sen. Karungo wa Thangw’a, you are on a point of order. What is it?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Ninamshukuru Sen. Thang’wa kwa kuelewa ya kwamba bendera iliyoko pale sio ya Kaunti yake. Kwa hivyo, anafanya kazi yake ya oversight na kuangalia kila mahali. Ninakumbuka nilipokuwa Mwenyekiti wa Kamati ya Ugatuzi, nilikuwa nikiangalia mambo kwa kindani. Bw. Naibu...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Senators, if you are not interested in that matter, please withdraw your request. I can see requests from Sen. Lomenen and Sen. Maanzo, and they are not in this House at the moment. Sen. Olekina, do you want to say something on this Statement?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Naunga mkono Sen. Kinyua kwa sababu ulimkataza kuongea. Bw. Naibu Spika, Kenya ina majimbo--- (Laughter) Bw. Naibu Spika, naunga mkono Seneta wa Laikipia kwa sababu Kenya ina majimbo--- The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Tulimaliza mjadala kuhusu Taarifa hiyo kitambo.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not want to comment on the Statement because we are still within the Statements’ Hour. When Sen. Lemaltian was giving a Statement concerning security issues, I noted that you did not give us time to give our views on...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Land, Environment October 25, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 29

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, I take this opportunity to congratulate Sen. (Dr.) Lelegwe Ltumbesi, although I am not happy to have cut him short. I know that he takes security issues seriously and is a committed leader in this Senate. I would like to...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not want to comment on the Statement because we are still within the Statements’ Hour. When Sen. Lemaltian was giving a Statement concerning security issues, I noted that you did not give us time to give our views on that. I also thank you...

On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. (Dr.) Lelegwe Ltumbesi, would you wish Sen. Wambua to inform you on this?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Sen. Wambua can inform me.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, first, I take this opportunity to congratulate Sen. (Dr.) Lelegwe Ltumbesi, although I am not happy to have cut him short. I know that he takes security issues seriously and is a committed leader in this Senate. I would like to inform him that the Committee...

I thank you.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Bw. Naibu wa Spika, ndio niweze kuweka mambo haya bayana, ni vyema niseme ya kwamba nilikuwa diwani wa sehemu inayoitwa Mutara. Pia nilikuwa Mwenyekiti wa Kaunti ya Laikipia. Kwa hivyo, Sen. Olekina aelewe hayo. Naona Sen. Madzayo anababaika. Bw. Naibu wa Spika, nataka kwanza kuunga...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Let us start business. I have confirmed that we have quorum. COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR VISITING DELEGATION FROM THE COUNTY ASSEMBLY OF MAKUENI The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Senators, I have a Communication to make. I would like to acknowledge the presence in the...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Let me give one or two Members. Proceed, Sen. Kavindu Muthama.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Next Order. PAPERS LAID REPORTS OF THE AUDITOR GENERAL ON FINANCIAL STATEMENTS OF VARIOUS ENTITIES

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Next Order. NOTICES OF MOTIONS PARKING CHARGES IN INSTITUTIONS OFFERING ESSENTIAL SERVICES

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Kibwana, please, proceed. CREATION OF MENTAL HEALTH FACILITIES FOR MOTHERS

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you. Next Order. STATEMENTS The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Cherarkey, ‘Mr. point of order’, you can now prosecute your Statement.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for allowing me to read my second Statement and request on the Human-Wildlife conflict in Masinga Constituency, Machakos County. I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.5 (3) (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Land, Environment...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is a request for a Statement on the plight of Kenyan migrant workers in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and other countries in the Middle East. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise--- (An hon. Member consulted the Chair)...

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. This is a request for a Statement on the plight of Kenyan migrant workers in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and other countries in the Middle East. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise--- (An hon. Member consulted the Chair) The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as has been the tradition in this House, one or two Members are given the opportunity to ride on a Statement given by a Member. The Senator for Kitui County has brought a very important Statement. It is instructive to note...

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Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I had pressed it but it was not working. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise under Standing Order No.53, which allows us to make general comments on a Statement sought by a Senator. It is sad that you did not see us when we tried to...

Perhaps, time has come for us to integrate our passports, so that when a person arrives in a country, our embassies are directly informed. When your passport is stamped and the details are captured electronically, the embassy in the receiving country should also get those details. That is the only...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me, first of all, congratulate Sen. Wambua for raising this issue. I hope the relevant Committee will be seized of this serious matter. At one time, I served as the Deputy Minister for Foreign Affairs. The problem with immigrant workers traveling out of the country...

Point of order! The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Just a moment Sen. Onyonka. Sen. Kinyua, what is your point of order?

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I just wanted to seek clarification from Sen. Onyonka. I heard him say that he was a Deputy Minister and I was confused. I do not know whether he was a Deputy Minister in this or another country. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Onyonka, were...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise pursuant to Standing Order No.53 (1) to seek a Statement from the Standing Committee on Education regarding the reintroduction of the school feeding programme in public primary schools, particularly those in Arid and Semi-Arid Lands (ASALs) . In the...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I stand under Standing Order No.58 to issue a Personal Statement on the victimization by media on my court appearance as a witness. On 9th September, 2022, I received witness summons from the investigating officer to attend court and give evidence in a criminal case...

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I will allow the Senate Majority Leader to move this Motion so that we can enter into the debate. (Loud Consultations) The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I will allow the Senate Majority Leader to move this Motion so that we can enter into the debate....

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise pursuant to Standing Order 20 to move - THAT, the Senate approves the nomination of the following Senators to serve in the Speaker’s Panel and to further preside over the Senate in the absence of the Speaker and the Deputy Speaker, pursuant...

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will be very brief. The Speaker’s Panel is very important. Today, we have just established a new tradition on how to number this. The National Assembly numbers it differently. I support.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) No, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am on the list. My microphone is on.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise to support this Motion. The four are respected Members of this House. Having served in the National Assembly for three terms, I understand their responsibility is very important. I think they have the capacity and what it takes to...

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)E. Finance and Budget October 13, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 25 APPROVAL OF SENATORS TO SERVE IN STANDING COMMITTEE OF THE SENATE

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move- THAT, pursuant to Standing Order Nos.199 and 228, and the Fourth Schedule to the Standing Orders, the Senate approves the following Senators nominated by the Senate Business Committee to serve in Standing Committees of the Senate as follows– A. Agriculture, Livestock and...

Asante Bw. Naibu Spika. Kwa sababu ya kazi ambazo ziko mbele yetu, nitajaribu kufupisha mazungumzo yangu kidogo. Jambo la kwanza, ningependa kusisitiza ya kwamba katika hizi kamati zote 14 ambazo zimeteuliwa za kudumu, zote ni muhimu. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I can see the mood in the House. Is...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I join my neighbor, the Senate Majority Leader, Sen. Cheruiyot. I echo his sentiments that, this is a very important Motion. It is what sets us in the mood of starting to work. I also commend ---

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Yes, what is your point of order, Sen. Cheptumo? October 13, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 31

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I was in the process of thanking the Senate Majority Leader, Sen. Cheruiyot, who has moved this Motion. On the Minority side, I thank our leaders led by the Senate Minority Leader, and the Senate Minority Whip. Mr. Deputy...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me rephrase. It would be good if women leaders are given a chance, when Chairpersons of Committees are elected. There is also another issue which I do not know whether it only affects me or it affects some other Members....

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, we need your determination. It is provided in the Standing Orders to use a language that is respectful towards a colleague. Sen. Olekina wants to demand that he be addressed with decorum and respect, while he is calling a colleague childish....

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rose on a point of order because I was aggrieved by the sentiments of my colleague. The first thing, with all due respect, is for you to rule on the matter then I can adjudicate on the other issue. As...

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Yes. I see there is no other interest. I now call on the Mover to reply to this Motion. (Loud consultation)

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I want to give direction on the way forward. This is a Communication on Election of Chairpersons and Vice-Chairpersons of Select Committees. Hon. Senators, as you are aware and in accordance with the Senate Standing Orders, and following the approval of the House of the...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)Who is seconding you? MOTION OF ADJOURNMENT UNDER STANDING ORDER NO.37 THE DROUGHT SITUATION IN THE COUNTRY

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move- That pursuant to Standing Order No.37, the Senate do adjourn to discuss a matter of national importance namely, the drought situation in the country. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Arid and Semi-Arid Lands (ASAL) are faced with a devastating drought situation. The...

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. The ASAL counties have historically suffered from periodic droughts. However, the droughts between 1969 to almost 2020 have been averaging between five to 10 years. In the last 10 years, the situation has changed, resulting to suffering the drought situation every two to three...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the Motion and request Sen. Wambua to second.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to take this opportunity to second the Motion by Sen. Ali Roba on the issue of drought. I congratulate the Senator for Mandera for thinking and effecting his thoughts by seeking for adjournment of the House to debate this matter of national importance....

Our forefathers used to sit back and wait for the rains to come before they could start planting. If the rains did not fall, they used to starve and could walk for long distances going to areas that experienced better rains in search of food to feed their families.In this...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Asante, Bw. Spika wa Muda kwa kunipa fursa hii. Nataka kuchukua fursa hii kumpongeza Sen. Ali Roba kwa Hoja hii ambayo imeletwa wakati unaofaa. Ni ukweli ya kwamba hili janga la njaa limekumba sehemu nyingi za nchi yetu ya Kenya. Ukitembea sehemu za Laikipia Magharibi,...

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for that kind gesture. I was saying that that study had estimated that with as little as Kshs1.2 billion, we would do sand dams on every river stream to hold all the water in the county, raise the water table and carry out irrigation...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, allow me to congratulate Sen. Ali Roba for coming up with this important Motion on declaration of drought as a national disaster. This is something that is not new because we have been facing droughts year in, year out. I believe that Members of this House...

Asante, Bw. Spika wa Muda kwa kunipa fursa hii. Nataka kuchukua fursa hii kumpongeza Sen. Ali Roba kwa Hoja hii ambayo imeletwa wakati unaofaa. Ni ukweli ya kwamba hili janga la njaa limekumba sehemu nyingi za nchi yetu ya Kenya. Ukitembea sehemu za Laikipia Magharibi, Kaskazini na hata Mashariki, utapata...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Senate Majority Leader.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Let us go to the next Order. (The Clerk-at-the-Table consulted with Chair) ) Hon. Senators, I have some important information to put across. In consultation with both the Majority and Minority sides, I am re-organizing the order of business as follows: We will defer Order...

The Deputy Speaker (Hon. Kathuri) Sen. Kinyua, what is out of order? We are also interested to know the other business that you go to do when there are EALA games.

The Deputy Speaker (Hon. Kathuri) I think he meant that you play football apart from golf.

The Deputy Speaker (Hon. Kathuri) If the Majority Leader is interested in being informed, then I think it is okay because you are a good football player of Bunge FC.

The Deputy Speaker (Hon. Kathuri) Sen. Faki, please, proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Hon. Kathuri) Thank you. Leader of the Minoruty party, Sen. Madzayo, please, proceed. The Senate Minority Leader (Sen. Madzayo) : Asante Bw. Naibu Spika. Kwanza nataka niunge mkono yote aliyosema ndugu yangu, Sen. Cheruiyot, kuhusu mjadala huu. Mjadala huu ni muhimu kwa sababu unaweza kuweka ratiba ya...

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He is wearing a half of a jacket (Laughter) October 12, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 15

A half coat! I am sorry. I am not a fashion guru. In fact, I am a rural Senator, as Sen. Sifuna would put it. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Cherarkey, what did you say he is wearing specifically?

A half coat that is a replica of what we used to wear during the campaign period. It is not a campaign period. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)(Laughter)(Laughter)(Laughter) (Laughter) (Laughter) (Laughter) The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Asante, Bw. Spika. Nilikuwa mmoja wa wale watu ambao wakati mmoja nafikiria ndugu yangu...

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. M. Kajwang, I do not want to comment on your statement. You are, indeed, in good company. Sen. Maanzo, can you withdraw or apologise for your statement. It has caused a lot of tension in the House. (Laughter)

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like Sen. Cherarkey to inform me.

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Bw. Naibu Spika, asante sana kwa kunipa fursa hii. Naungana nawe, pamoja na Seneta wa Nairobi, kuwakaribisha wanafunzi na waalimu wa shule ya Leadership Academy. Sisi tunawatakia mema. Ni vizuri wamekuja kuona mambo ambayo tunayoyafanya hapa Seneti. Nawasihi watie bidi kwa masomo yao kwa sababu...

Thank you very much, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I take this opportunity, as the Senator for Nairobi City County, to welcome the students from Leadership Academy. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, that is why your decision on the discussions that were ongoing before is very critical. In fact, when students come...

Bw. Naibu Spika, asante sana kwa kunipa fursa hii. Naungana nawe, pamoja na Seneta wa Nairobi, kuwakaribisha wanafunzi na waalimu wa shule ya Leadership Academy. Sisi tunawatakia mema. Ni vizuri wamekuja kuona mambo ambayo tunayoyafanya hapa Seneti. Nawasihi watie bidi kwa masomo yao kwa sababu masomo ndio uti wa mgongo...

Bw. Naibu Spika, natoa shukrani zangu kwa kunikubalia nizungumze kwa ufupi sana. Ningependa kuwaambia wanafunzi ambao wamekuja hapa kwamba Kenya ni nchi nzuri ikiwa tutailinda. Najua wamekuja hapa kuelewa vile tunavyojadiliana kama viongozi, kwa maswala nyeti yanayohusu wananchi wa kawaida ili tuweze kuboresha maisha yao. Naona wengi wao ni wasichana...

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I rise to support this Motion. Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, this is not a normal Procedural Motion. It is a Motion that speaks to the history of the Constitution and the freedom of the legislature from the Executive. It is a Motion that we...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Kinyua, what is out of order?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Bw. Naibu Spika, sina hoja ya nidhamu. Nilitaka tu kuchangia kama Sen. Mungatana.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Bw. Naibu Spika, unajua nilikuwa katika Bunge la Taifa. Sasa nimeanza kujifunza.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Bw. Naibu Spika, sidhani kama hoja ya nidhamu ya Seneta wa Laikipia inashiria ukosefu wowote wa nidhamu wangu.

Bw. Naibu Spika, unajua nilikuwa katika Bunge la Taifa. Sasa nimeanza kujifunza. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Faki, proceed.

Bw. Naibu Spika, sidhani kama hoja ya nidhamu ya Seneta wa Laikipia inashiria ukosefu wowote wa nidhamu wangu. October 12, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 25 The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Bw. Naibu Spika, ni wazi nilivyoeleza, kwamba---

Bw. Naibu Spika, nimesema upande wa ‘walio wengi wachache’, kwa sababu inajulikana wazi kwamba chama cha Sen. Ali Roba na wenzake bado kiko ndani ya Azimio la Umoja one Kenya Alliance. Hicho ni kitu kinachojulikana wazi. Nikimalizia, ningependa--- The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Faki, naomba ujieleze kwa ufasaha ndiposa...

Bw. Naibu Spika, ni wazi nilivyoeleza, kwamba--- The Deputy

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order. Sen. Faki has misled the House on an issue that has already been determined and reinforced by the Speaker of the National Assembly. We discussed the issue as to where the Senators elected on...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the reading of Article 108 of the Constitution of Kenya alongside Senate Standing Order No.22, it is crystal clear that it is

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order. Sen. Faki has misled the House on an issue that has already been determined and reinforced by the Speaker of the National Assembly. We discussed the issue as to where the Senators elected on United Democratic Movement (UDM) party...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think we are undermining your authority which is a trend that we need not allow. When one talks of “majority” and “minority”, what is that? How can one side become a majority and minority at the same time? I respect my colleague, but we need...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, in the reading of Article 108 of the Constitution of Kenya alongside Senate Standing Order No.22, it is crystal clear that it is October 12, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 26

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Bw. Naibu Spika, hili si swala la mjadala, kama Spika alitoa uamuzi, unaweza uleta uamuzi huo kesho ili tusome.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Bw. Naibu Spika, kama hawangependa kuita walio wengi wachache, ningependa kuondoa swala hilo. Nimekubali kuondoa swala hilo.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Bw. Naibu Spika, wazo alilotoa Sen. Mungatana kwamba Bunge hili lipate fursa ya kujadili mambo kulingana na maslahi ya wananchi na Kenya kwa jumla, wangeenza wao kwa kuhakikisha kwamba uchaguzi wa wenyekiti wa Kamati zote ambazo ziko katika Bunge hili umegawanywa sawa.

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I feel harassed. Sen. Faki, do you want to be informed?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Sen. Faki wants to be informed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, but this issue will keep on emerging and you have guided that Sen. Faki should bring it as a substantive motion---

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Bw. Naibu Spika, kuna taa tatu pale ambazo zinatuongoza kuhusiana na mambo ya saa. Sijaona hata moja likiwashwa. Ningependa uniruhusu nimalize maelezo yangu. Sen. Mungatana ameleta swala nyeti kwamba Bunge hili lisimame na haki na usawa. Hii itaanza wakati upande wa walio wengi watakubali kuwa...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Faki ungependa kufahamishwa chochote naye Sen. Kinyua?

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I have a Communication on substantiation of facts that a Senator alleges to be true. Hon. Senators, as you may recall, on Wednesday, 5th October, 2022, during the debate on the presidential address on the opening of the 13th Parliament, nominated Senator, Sen. Veronica Maina...

Asante, Bw. Spika wa Muda. I have a Communication on substantiation of facts that a Senator arranges to be true. (Interruption of debate on the Motion) COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR SUBSTANTIATION OF REMARKS MADE BY SEN. OSOTSI ON WEDNESDAY, 5TH OCTOBER, 2022 The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I have a...

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I have heard you. I also had an opportunity to look at the HANSARD. The two issues that were raised were on the comment on the Kshs2 billion, where I stated that “we were told”. We all remember the former President Uhuru Kenyatta alluded...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I also said “beneficiaries of corruption.” I did not say the other side is corrupt. October 12, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 30

All the same, pursuant to Standing Order No.105(2), I was prepared to substantiate my allegations on 6th Thursday, 2022, last week because the Standing Orders clearly states ‘not later than the next sitting day’.I made the allegations on Wednesday and the next day was Thursday. I was prepared with a...

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen Osotsi, you know the consequences. You go and read the HANSARD properly on the issues that you talked about on this Floor. If you substantiate in their rallies and meetings, you should also be able to substantiate on these allegations or this Statement. I...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I have given you up to tomorrow 2:30 p.m. Kindly, we are not debating. Tomorrow, I will give you enough time to substantiate your claims. Therefore, do not bother now. Just relax. You will do that tomorrow. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, Mr....

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. (Applause) The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Next. We are back to debate the Motion. Who was on the Floor? Sen. Cherarkey, please, proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Senators, there being no other business on the Order Paper, the Senate stands adjourned until Thursday, 13th October, 2022 at 2:30 p.m. The senate rose at 4:27 p.m.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. We have heard comments from our colleagues on important issues that have been canvased. This is not limited to the last point raised by my colleague and good neighbour, Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda, SC. I want him to know that he fills very big...

October 12, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 37

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Senators, I have established that we have quorum. We can start transacting our Business. However, before we do that, I understand that the gadgets on my right-hand side have not been working for the last 10 minutes. The technical team is tirelessly doing their...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, the Senate Majority Leader. Next Order. NOTICES OF MOTIONS The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) The Senate Majority Leader, proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Hon. Kathuri) Let us go to the next Order. THANKS FOR THE PRESIDENTIAL ADDRESS DURING OPENING OF THE 13TH PARLIAMENT The Deputy Speaker (Hon. Kathuri) According to the records, the Senator for Kiambu had 13 minutes. Sen. Karungo, please proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Order Senator.

Having sought that protection--- The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) What is the protection that you need from the Chair because you are already protected and covered by the brand? What else do you need from me?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Sifuna, because you are eating into your time.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Sifuna, you wanted protection from the Chair, yet you are the one causing your insecurity. Please, let us avoid a lot of points of orders because many Senators in this room want to contribute to this Motion.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Cherarkey, what is out of order and which Standing Order are you quoting?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Cherarkey, any time you want to raise any issue, just catch the Speakers’ eye and you will be given that opportunity. Alternatively, rise up from your seat or put your hands up. All those traditional methods are acceptable. Sen. Sifuna, please proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Sifuna, do you want to be informed by your colleague friend?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Please take your seat.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Inform him of the name of that new hybrid.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Sifuna, please proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Sifuna, there is an intervention from the Senator for Kisii. Sen. Onyonka, is it an intervention or do you want to contribute to the Motion?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Okay, thank you. Proceed Sen. Sifuna. (The amber light was switched on)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Cherarkey, what is out of order?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Sifuna, you have less than one-and-a- half minute. October 11, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 17

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Your time is up. However, I am happy we have the Motion on placement of Members of this House to Committees. The Government will now engage this House on the final steps on GMOs and any other policies. I wish that you could go to...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sorry, Sen. Veronica Maina. There is a point of order.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed to prosecute your point of order.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) She is using a note book for reference. From where she is, it is impossible to read word by word. Sen. Veronica Maina, avoid looking down, at least look at me.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, Sen. Veronica Maina. Let us have Sen. Oketch Gicheru. It will be good if you can save a few minutes for the other Senators to contribute.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Senator, your time is up.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Please conclude.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Tabitha Mutinda.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Tabitha Mutinda.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, my good friend---

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Just a minute, Sen. Joe Nyutu. What is out of order Sen. Oketch?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Quote the point of order you are referring to. This housekeeping matter came up at some point.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Which Article of the Constitution?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) You are quoting the wrong Standing Order. Standing Order 121 is disorderly conduct.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) You said Standing Order No.121 in line with an Article. That is what I want to get properly. Which Standing Order?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Did you say Article 116?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Okay, proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Joe Nyutu, you may respond.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Joe Nyutu, so that we can be on the right footing, I refer Sen. Oketch to Article 173 of the Constitution, which establishes the Judiciary Fund. Proceed Sen. Nyutu.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Let us first here from Sen. Joe Nyutu, whether he is ready to be informed by the Senator for Nairobi City County.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Yes, Sen. Sifuna, proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Yes, Sen. Joe Nyutu, you may respond.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Joe Nyutu, your time is almost over, but there is another point of information from Sen. Mandago.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Joe Nyutu, you are well informed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Is there another point of order or point of information? Sen. Onyonka, please, proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Shakila Abdalla, please, proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Tabitha Keroche.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Let us now have the Senate Minority Whip, Sen. Dullo. These two ladies are in the leadership of this House. I apologize since they ought to have contributed the first day. It is good that you have been around for the three days to see...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Cherarkey, what is out of order? Sen. Dullo is doing so well. (Sen. Cherarkey spoke off record) The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Cherarkey, go to the Dispatch Box.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Mwaruma, what is out of order?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Mwaruma, this Motion is in progress and we are at the tail-end. It is not possible to limit debate at this point according to Standing Order No.111. I have been requesting Members at their own discretion, to can save some time for your colleagues....

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Cheruiyot, kindly take your seat.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Actually, you have three more minutes to finish. (Sen. Cherarkey spoke off record)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Cherarkey, I give you the opportunity to prosecute your point of order. You are both senior Members of this House and you know each other well. (Sen. Dullo spoke off record) Sen. Cherarkey, we want to know why when either of you speaks, the...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Dullo

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Dullo, kindly finish up.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) There is a point of order from the Senate Majority Leader.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Dullo, you have very few seconds to finish.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Few seconds.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) When you see the red light, you know your time is up.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you. Let us have Sen. (Dr.) Murango.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen.Kathuri) Yes, Sen. Faki. Just a moment, Sen. (Dr.) Murango. October 11, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 44

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Samahani, Sen. (Dr.) Murango! Ninaomba usisome moja kwa moja. Wewe zungumza ukiangalia Naibu wa Spika. Angalia nakala yako halafu uniangalie ukiendelea. (Laughter)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Ahsante sana. Sen. Mwaruma, what is out of order? (Interruption of debate on the Motion) PROCEDURAL MOTIONS EXTENSION OF SITTING TIME October 11, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 46

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Kinyua.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Faki. October 11, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 47

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Abdul Haji, you may proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Wakili Hillary, kindly proceed. October 11, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 49

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Just a minute, Sen. Wakili Sigei. What is out of order, Sen. Oketch?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) So, were you trying to give Sen. Wakili Sigei more information or were you giving clarification?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I did not hear that misinformation. Sen. Wakili Sigei, could you clarify?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Senators, the Members on my right- hand side are disadvantaged because their gadgets are not working. I confirm that the Members in this list are the ones who want to contribute. Confirm whether you are in my list before you sit forever and fail...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)(Applause)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I take this opportunity to welcome to the House students from Otieno Oyoo High School, which is just about five kilometres from Kisumu Town. I also welcome the teachers who have accompanied the students. It is instructive for students to note...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hold on, Sen. Wambua. What is your point of order, Sen. Ali Roba?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) It is a point of information, which does not change the facts. The facts remain the same. I do not know how it does it. If you remember, the context of my overview was about a speech that is not speaking to itself. There is...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)talked eloquently and with a lot of vigour, which made the Speech to be seen as very short.The President started by asking for cooperation between legislators of the two Houses; the National Assembly and the Senate. The President’s Speech gave hope to the young, upcoming politicians...

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I rise on a point of order on Standing Order No.122 (e) . Sen. Wambua has given inaccurate information as to the content of the Presidents Speech. If you look at Paragraph 47 of the Speech, Sen. Wambua said that the President said that for every Kshs6,000...

It is a point of information, which does not change the facts. The facts remain the same. I do not know how it does it. If you remember, the context of my overview was about a speech that is not speaking to itself. There is a saving here that is...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Members, I have confirmed that we have quorum. Let us proceed. COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR PUPILLAGE, INTERNSHIP AND ATTACHMENT PROGRAMMES IN THE SENATE

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Senators, it was not my intention or plan to give comments on this Communication, but allow me to give at least two more Senators a chance to make their comments. I will start with the Senator for Makueni County, Sen. Maanzo.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I am looking for a non-lawyer to give a comment. I know you are a lawyer by profession, Sen. Cheptumo.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) What is out of order? A minute Sen. Faki. Just a minute. I hope you have your Standing Orders with you because you must give me the correct Standing Order you are quoting.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Okay.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Which Standing Order? Do you want to contribute or make a point of order on?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen Maanzo, do you want to withdraw? Withdraw. You know there are lawyers of good repute---

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Gataya, Senator of Tharaka-Nithi. Let us close there, Hon. Senators.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I have decided to give a few more Members. I understand that we should encourage these young professionals and also get advice from seasoned lawyers like the Senator of Kisumu County. At least two minutes each. Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda SC. October 5, 2022 SENATE...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) What is out of order, Sen. Cherargei? Just a moment, Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda, SC.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Cherarkey.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) No, have your seat Senator for Kisumu County.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Cherarkey, you are out of order. I am following a very elaborate list here on my left. If you continue guiding me on how to preside over this session, you will be treading on very dangerous ground.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) They are all guided. Thank you. Sen. (Prof.) Tom Ojienda, SC, proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Sen. Mungatana.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Yes. Kindly proceed, Sen. Mungatana.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Okay. You are well protected Senator. Proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, Sen. Mungatana. However, you should know that this House does not decide who should come for pupillage or attachment. Those decisions are not made from this Floor. A different office is involved. That office should make sure we have diversity from all the...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) If I did not give you the microphone to contribute---

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I honestly agree with you, Senator. Sen. Madzayo, Senate Minority Leader, proceed. (Sen. Wambua spoke off record) Sen. Wambua, do you mean you are more senior than Sen. Madzayo in this House? Do you know there is superiority in contributing? Proceed, Senate Minority Leader. October...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Give him 30 seconds to finish.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) The last one is the Senate Deputy Minority Leader, Sen. Wambua. You may proceed.

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move the following Procedural Motion- THAT, pursuant to Standing Order No.111 (1) , the Senate resolves that debate on a Motion not sponsored by the Majority or Minority Party or a Committee shall be limited in the following...

October 5, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 10

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)Colleagues, it is important that before you approve or reject any Procedural Motion, first of all, you need to read and understand it. That is actually akin to signing a contract.Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would also like to say this before I resume my seat....

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, welcome to Nairobi. Reading from the Motion on the Order Paper, it makes reference to Standing Order No. 110 (4) . My copy of the Standing Orders has Standing Order No.111 (4) as the order dealing with the limitation of debate...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)business runs here.I wanted to inform my neighbour that even without amending the Standing Orders, the Constitution already has a very clear framework for CSs to appear before us. What I should be hearing from the Senate Majority Leader is that the President should tell his...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir! October 5, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 20

On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir! The principle of a Member being responsible for the accuracy of his statement in this House is a cardinal principle. Secondly, --- The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) What point of order are you on?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)If Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale interpreted this Article and read it in Kiswahili language, he will understand that those powers are there. The problem has been the failure by the CSs in responding to summons whenever issued by the Senate.The Senate Majority Leader, Sen. Cheruiyot, will tell...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)our farmers rely on, if we did not incentivize them and ensure that they can access markets and farm inputs at a cheaper price, then we shall never be food secure as a country.I appreciate the commitment by the President when he read his speech. He...

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I want to weigh in on the point of orders that have been raised. I totally agree with Sen. Omogeni and Sen. M. Kajwang’. It is true that the previous national executive was full of impunity. I want to assure them that we took...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Majority Whip, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I think I guided the House that we move the Motion, second and then we can continue. However, the way you are moving it, you are attracting so many points of order. Could you restrict yourself to seconding the Motion...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, certainly I cannot attempt to introduce the BBI on the Floor of this House for the reason that the Supreme Court of Kenya made a serious pronouncement which guided the entire country. Amongst other things, the Supreme Court said that the...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I want to bring the attention of the House and that of Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale to Standing Order No. 185, which that talks about general application of rules in Committee of the Whole. That Standing Order says the same rules of...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am rising on a point of order on the issue which is being introduced by my very good friend, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, whom I respect a lot. That is the issue of the CSs coming to address the House. Is he introducing the Building Bridges...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, certainly I cannot attempt to introduce the BBI on the Floor of this House for the reason that the Supreme Court of Kenya made a serious pronouncement which guided the entire country. Amongst other things, the Supreme Court said that the BBI was a mongrel that...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) What is out of order, Sen. Osotsi?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is about the President. However, I was thinking of Hon. Gachagua, the Deputy President that is why I had a slip of the tongue. I invite this Senate and the National Assembly to help President William Ruto’s Government, by doing...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale is my neighbour and a good friend. I am concerned that he seems to be discussing a Senator whom he is not mentioning by name. There is no substantive Motion to discuss a Member. Is he in order? The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the distinguished Senator for Vihiga County could be suffering from an ailment of daydreaming when his eyes are wide open. I have not stated the name of any Member, neither of this House nor the other House. The word Senator could mean, I was referring to...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)that of the 22, at least one should have come from Tana River County. I support Sen. Mungatana that exclusion is not right.Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir--- October 5, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 33

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am following what the Senator for Nyamira County has just presented before the House. Is he in order to preach tribalism and clannism at the altar of qualification? May I bring to his attention that the Kikuyus that he is talking about, represent over 30...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, --- The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)(Loud consultations)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, heckling is their profession. It is out of order to profile individuals and Kenyans that have been nominated. I am talking about minorities and majorities. It has been captured. The Cabinet is yet to be completed. The Principal Secretaries (PSs) and...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) On a point of information, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)(Laughter)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Okay, Sen. Omogeni.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I respect the rules of this House. I never rise before reading a document fully---

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I will reserve my comments on that matter until I bring a substantive Motion on that issue.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I conclude--- (Sen. Cherarkey spoke off record) I do not know why the Senator for Nandi County, Sen. Cherarkey is not a good listener.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I conclude, His Excellency the President made pledges to small-scale traders, hawkers, mama mboga and the makanga. We were told that the hustler nation will be a government formed by hawkers, hecklers and the mama mbogas. They also said that...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. (Loud consultations) October 5, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 37

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)not have the resources to pay for each and every individual to send them back to school where they belong.We risk creation of a generation of people who are going to stay at home and then become despondent. They will go back to doing all the...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, as I conclude, His Excellency the President made pledges to small-scale traders, hawkers, mama mboga and the makanga. We were told that the hustler nation will be a government formed by hawkers, hecklers and the mama mbogas. They also said that BBI was about sharing positions....

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, Proceed, Sen Ali Roba.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) No, you will have your chance to defend.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Proceed, Hon. Senator.

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)We cannot say we want to put more money in NSSF, without restructuring it, removing corruption and misplaced investments that happen in it. Mr. President, it is good to increase the deduction to NSSF but make sure NSSF is restructured so that Kenyans have confidence to...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Hon. Member---

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I look at Standing Order No.98. With all due respect, it does not ask any Senator to state any Standing Order but to explain--- (Loud consultations) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, Sir, I continue with my contribution. The President alluded to the...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Let him finish. That will mislead us further.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I stand guided. However, I would want the country and my colleagues to understand my reading of this Standing Order--- October 5, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 46 (Loud consultations)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. (Dr.) Khalwale, I confirm that what Sen. Olekina has said about Standing Order No.98 (1) , is true and correct.

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am lucky that I was one of the people who crafted this Standing Orders. The intention of Standing Order No.98 (1) , does not require that when you stand, you must say; “Standing Order No.105--- (Loud consultations) The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Let him finish....

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)(Applause)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)(Applause) (Applause)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Senator, sorry for the interruption. The Senator who has just crossed the Floor, kindly walk to the bar, bow and then cross over. (Sen. Montet walked to the bar and bowed, then proceeded to take her seat) COMMUNICATION FROM THE CHAIR VISITING DELEGATION FROM...

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have no objection. Being a ‘mono,’ I should be willing to be informed so that I learn.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. Before I get into the Speech of the President, allow me to try and settle that conflict in terms of the right position on the Expressway. I sat in the Committee on Roads and Transportation in the last Session....

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have no objection. Being a ‘mono,’ I should be willing to be informed so that I learn. The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Sen. Faki, kindly proceed.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hold on, Sen. Wambua. What is your point of order, Sen. Ali Roba?

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) That was actually a point of information, and it is okay. Maybe you can make the correction, Sen. Wambua.

The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri)

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The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) I thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir.

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. I am speaking after my colleague and friend, Sen. Murkomen, the now CS for Roads, Transport and Public Works. I join issue with him, on the question of the importance of separation of powers, given that the House as a whole, has an obligation...

However, the Judiciary budget for Financial Year 2022/2023 stands at Kshs18.9 billion. The Kshs18.9 billion was given against the projected budget of Kshs39.5 billion falling short of the requirement of the Judiciary.The Judiciary runs several courts and has a huge number of staff. Both judicial independence as an important facet...

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I propose that on the question of climate change, the Presidents’ Speech fell short. It should have been more specific on the measures that should be taken to encourage and ensure every citizen is involved in activities that mitigate the advancement of climate change. Climate change...

Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, for this opportunity to contribute on the Presidential Address to this House. I have three minutes, but as you have stated, I will continue on Tuesday when we resume. As it was stated here by Sen. Cherarkey, I would want to use the same...

I thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. ADJOURNMENT The Deputy Speaker (Sen. Kathuri) Hon. Senators, it is now 6.30 p.m., time to adjourn the House. The Senate, therefore, stands adjourned until Tuesday, 11th October, 2022, at 2.30 p.m. The Senate rose at 6.31 p.m. October 6, 2022 SENATE DEBATES 53