Serjeant-at-Arms, ring the Quorum Bell. (The Quorum Bell was rung) Okay, Hon. Members. We can now start our business. Clerk.

Hon. Members on your feet, take your seats. I have two short recognitions of delegations.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. At the outset, I thank you and your officers, led by your able Clerk of the National Assembly, for all the support you have given our caucus, particularly our visiting colleagues. This is one of the oldest friendship groups in the Kenyan Parliament, particularly in this National Assembly. Globalisation and conflict have sparked international panic. The whole international community is in a panic mode, seeking to redefine the very tenets of the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations of 1961 because of this unpredictability. This is why parliamentary diplomacy plays a critical role in strengthening both bilateral and multi-lateral relations between States and quasi-state actors. I know lobbying and parliamentary exchanges were never part of any nation's governance. Still, as foreign policy dynamics change in many countries, parliamentarians play a critical role in parliamentary diplomacy.

As our friends from Turkey have done, I urge my colleagues that it is our responsibility, as elected representatives, to strengthen that bilateral relationship. I also thank you because, as a former Minister for Foreign Affairs, Turkey has played a very important role in the stabilisation, peace and security of the Republic of Somalia, where we come from. We all know what would have happened if Somalia had continued in the crisis it has faced.

On my behalf and on behalf of this House, I thank the Government of Türkiye for the critical role it has played. I request you to give one second to Hon. Salah, who hosts one of the biggest refugee camps, Hon Adan Haji and two other Members in the group.

Thank you. Hon. Speaker.

Thank you, Hon. Keynan. Hon. Kaguchia, you have one minute.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I welcome our friends from the Türkiye Parliament. We are happy to have this co-operation and friendship, which strengthens the relationship between the Parliament of Kenya and the Grand National Assembly of Turkey and supports parliamentary diplomacy that is likely to bolster trade between the two countries.

A friendship group is important because it helps us achieve a lot in boardrooms and in more relaxed environments, beyond strict and serious diplomatic meetings. For this reason, I laud this friendship between the two Parliaments. Kenya has participated in quite a number of engagements with Türkiye, including the Antalya Diplomacy Forum, the SAHA International Defence, Aerospace and Space Industry Exhibition, and the Turkey-Kenya Joint Economic Commission, which was signed in 2004, implemented in 2009, and has already held three sessions. These are some of the areas that have built that friendship and strengthened relations between our two States. I know we have encountered a few challenges, but we have overcome them.

I gave you one minute.

Hon. Speaker, as I conclude, there was an earthquake that hit this country in 2023. I am happy that, at last, through this friendship this year, we have kept the promise we made to this country back in 2023, when they were hit, and 51,000 lives were lost. I believe that, in future, this friendship group will also help us address some of the smaller issues that may have arisen over the years between these two countries, including the repatriation of the four Turkish nationals. I believe that, in future, this Parliament will help us manage some of those issues so that we do not fall into the trap of serious challenges in the international community.

That is enough. Hon. Farah, you have one minute. If you go beyond that, I will switch off your microphone.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to welcome the Parliamentary Delegation of Türkiye. We welcome them to Kenya and extend great gratitude to the Türkiye Government, through this delegation. As my constituency is one of Kenya’s border constituencies, the Türkiye Government has helped stabilise Somalia. That stabilisation is of great deal to my constituency. By hosting 400,000 refugees, stabilisation of Somalia is welcome news to us, and we thank them. Türkiye Government has extended great cooperation with the County Government of Garissa. They supported the first County Government of Garissa by helping us with six garbage compactor trucks. They have opened health facilities in Ijara Constituency and dug a number of boreholes in my constituency.

Thank you. Hon. Shinali, you are the last one on this. Are you also a member of the Friendship Group?

Yes, Hon. Speaker. Thank you for giving me this chance to welcome our counterparts from Türkiye. I thank the Government and Parliament of Türkiye. We have had a long-standing relationship which has remained very warm. In addition to our Kenya-Turkey Parliamentary Friendship Group, chaired by Hon. Keynan in the 12th Parliament, the Türkiye football team hosted us in Turkey to participate in the Scandinavian Parliamentary League, which lasted 10 days.

Your minute is up. Give him half a minute. There you are.

Hon. Speaker, with your permission, we will hold a meeting and a lunch with the delegation and the Departmental Committee on Trade, Industry and Co-operatives. I welcome all committee members and anyone who would like to welcome this team to join us.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. DK, hata wewe? I saw you in the meeting yesterday. Take one minute. Give DK the microphone.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for that gesture. I take this opportunity to welcome our friends from Türkiye. I hope they have enjoyed their time in Kenya. Among the few things we agreed to expedite… I want to assure you that this House will expedite the ratification of the current pending defence agreements. Secondly, parliamentary diplomacy will be key in partnering in other areas like agriculture and tourism. As the delegation can see, the Members here are well dressed. 90 per cent of their clothing comes from Turkey, and that is the partnership we have.

Thank you very much.

I do not know if that is a statement of fact. Hon. Members, in the Speaker's Gallery, I also acknowledge Blair Serem School from Keiyo North Constituency, Elgeyo Marakwet County; Chyemen Primary School from Belgut Constituency, Kericho County; and teachers and students from Mwarano Primary School from Kigumo Constituency, Murang'a County.

In the Public Gallery, we have Model Junior Academy from Teso North Constituency, Busia County; PCEA Boru Haro Junior School from Saku Constituency, Marsabit County; St.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I welcome all the students here to enjoy this session of Parliament. I specifically welcome the students from Kigumo. We have two girls who performed exceptionally well in the music festivals, emerging top in the whole country: Charlene Njeri and Tracy Wambui. We are very proud of you as a constituency. I know your principal, Mr Kiiru and your teachers accompanying you. Enjoy the session, observe what we do here in Parliament, and I encourage you to continue in that spirit. We take great pride in you. One day, you will also have the opportunity to either sit where I am or occupy the Speaker’s seat.

Karibuni sana.

Hon. Munyoro, they won that in the Speaker's county of Bungoma. Yes, Member for Kitui Central, Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu.

Thank you very much. I also join my colleague in welcoming all the students, particularly the team from my constituency, Kithambangii Primary School. This is where we carry out our work. We oversee the Executive, make laws, and then prepare the budget. My wish for them is to work hard and aspire to be in this House one day. Karibuni sana.

Yes, Naomi Waqo

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to welcome all the students and, in particular, those from Marsabit County, from North Horr Constituency and also Saku Constituency. As their representatives, we are glad that they are all here. I encourage them to work hard and succeed in their education so that, in the near future, they can represent us even better. I know some of them may become Members of Parliament. I wish them all the best, along with their teachers and support team. We are proud of you. Welcome to the Parliament of Kenya, where we make laws and represent and oversee.

Thank you.

Next Order.

Members, on your feet; take your seats.

Yes.

On which one?

Both.

Go ahead

On the one on human-wildlife conflict, you know, when I listen to it, it is something that has been raised here many times. I remember some time back the Cabinet Secretary came and had an interesting solution. She suggested that we carry all the monkeys and bring them to the city. So, I do not know...

She said she would arrest monkeys in Kandara and bring them and dump them in Nairobi.

Yes. To avoid these petitions, maybe, we need a clear policy addressing human-wildlife conflict. I found the petition submitted by Dr Kevin Osore on harmonising salaries between veterinary doctors and medical doctors interesting. The training for those two cadres of staff differs, and the pressure of the work does too. Human medicine is definitely different from veterinary medicine. I do not know how they can be harmonised. Even in occupations such as driving, drivers of saloon cars, such as taxis, are paid differently from drivers of lorries. Similarly, pilots who operate aeroplanes, earn more than drivers of ordinary vehicles. So, I wonder how the two can be harmonised. The Committee will have a very difficult time sorting that one out.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Rindikiri.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I think the Petition on the menace caused by monkeys is serious and important. The KWS needs to take it very seriously. I say so because, once the farmers have planted, particularly during this dry season, whatever they have planted is just wiped out by the monkeys. There has been a very high increase in the number of monkeys. The monkeys are giving birth at a high rate. One even finds a herd of almost 1,000 in an area and yet, one had left them at 200. At the rate at which they are increasing, I think they attract one another, or they give birth at night. This is becoming a very serious issue in Meru County.

We are known for offering maternity services for elephants, but they are a bit civilised because they come to specific areas and then leave. In contrast, monkeys have become a menace; they are everywhere. They are in homes, farms, and even towns. This matter needs to be taken very seriously. I urge the KWS to develop effective measures to prevent those monkeys from entering villages. The biggest question is: What is the economic value of monkeys?

I thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Karani.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to comment on the first Petition, the one on veterinarians. I want to declare my interest. I am a veterinary doctor by profession. I support the Petition because it is very important. Veterinary doctors, just like their counterparts, human doctors, undergo very rigorous training. They inspect the food we eat across the country and ensure we consume food that does not harm us. Therefore, when they ask to be treated just like their counterparts, the human doctors, in terms of their remuneration, I support that very strongly.

I thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Milemba.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I may not be strong on the monkey Petition. However, I want to comment on the one concerning the harmonisation of salaries between medical doctors and those in the veterinary sector. Harmonisation of salaries - and maybe the Leader of the Minority Party should listen to this - is something that is already being done and has been discussed by the International Labour Organisation (ILO). Wage differentials in the same sector are supposed to be at a minimum of 25 per cent. Therefore, when they speak about harmonisation, it may not necessarily mean that the salaries should be the same figure for figure, but that they are in the same sector. Wage differentials should be brought together to not more than 25 per cent.

We also have wage bands in salary scales. You will find that the wage band for veterinary doctors would stop at a very low level, while that of medical doctors goes far beyond. We face the same issue even in the teaching fraternity, where a teacher's wage band goes up to Grade D5, while a civil servant's goes well beyond S and T. That is what I think the Petitioner is looking for. Therefore, the Salaries and Remuneration Commission (SRC) and the

Go ahead, Hon. Tom Odege.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to declare that when veterinary doctors were pursuing risk allowance alongside medical doctors, I participated in the negotiations. Today, if the veterinary doctors are also appearing here to seek harmonisation of their remuneration with that of medical doctors, I once…

What risks are there in being a veterinary doctor? Go ahead.

They are doctors. They have studied medicine. The only difference is that one practises human medicine while the other practises animal medicine. The risks they face when performing their duties are the same. Now, when they come here to seek harmonisation of their remuneration, we need to support them. What they are doing is similar; the only difference is that animals do not talk, while human beings can talk and complain. If you look at how veterinary doctors examine and treat animals, it is almost the same as the way medical doctors examine and treat human beings. I support the Petition and urge my colleagues to help veterinary doctors get what is rightfully theirs.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Wangari.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to comment on the Petition, specifically on the matter of monkeys being included as animals that threaten people and cause serious conflict. In areas in my constituency known as Gong, Majimoto, and Kikopey, monkeys threaten national food security. One reason is that they do not fear women. They can run away from a five-year-old boy but not from a grown-up woman. Do not forget that they are very patriarchal.

Those monkeys go to the farms anytime there is anything, including carrots, and dig them out. They will come when you are cooking your githeri and even put it down. They go to a clothes-line and actually get your clothes off. We may think it is a laughing matter, but it has seriously threatened this country's food security. Last term, I actually had to go to the primates’ organisation to help us move the monkeys from that area. We moved them. But if you leave one female or one male, they repopulate that area within a year. That is what Hon. Murwithania was talking about—their population is growing by the day, and they are destructive.

About 90 per cent of farmers in the fields are women. The monkeys will not respect them, and they will keep destroying food. They are patriarchal monkeys, and they make sure they cause havoc. So, we must get to KWS, because they have not even been able to compensate for all other animals, including hippos. A few weeks ago, people from my constituency had a boat capsize in Lake Naivasha because of a hippo. We have not dealt with hippos and buffaloes, but monkeys need to be on that list. I support the Petition, and I hope the Committee will review it comprehensively.

Yes, Whip of the Minority Party.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I support the Petition and, of course, I agree with Hon. Martha that monkeys are very patriarchal in nature. They do not respect women. Besides that, because monkeys are not seen as threatening, people never take them seriously as wild animals. But they affect crops in many places. In my own constituency, in a place called Kamato, monkeys are a menace around the game park. People there face other challenges. Along the lake, we are dealing with hippos and crocodiles. In the valley, we face monkeys. As Members of Parliament, we should enact a law on this. When we brought the law here, many people did not support it. But it is high time we

So, what happened?

You want to know what happened? Hon. Speaker, I know Hon. Raphael Wanjala likes this.

Ignore Hon. Wanjala! He has a profane mind.

Hon. Speaker, I am a bad girl and even monkeys know that. It stood its ground, and I stood my ground. I threatened it, and it peed, left, and jumped out the window. Monkeys do not respect women. But because we cannot train them to respect women…

Are you saying they do not fear women or they do not respect women?

Both, Hon. Speaker. I would say that they do not fear women. But they copy from the male counterparts here. You are the ones who do not respect women. (A Member spoke off the record) No, it is not you because you are the closest man. But you can even see what the men did to the women in Homa Bay County. These men are very mannerless people.

Point made. Hon. Otiende Amollo. (Hon. Raphael Wanjala spoke off the record) Hon. Wanjala, I will come to you. I will give you an opportunity after Hon. Otiende. Thank you.

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

Yes, Hon. Wanjala. What is out of order? Hon. Otiende Amollo, take your seat.

Hon. Speaker, you have heard Hon. Millie Odhiambo say we men are mannerless and do not respect women, yet in her county last weekend, a woman governor organised gangs and gave them pangas to go and cut men.

Order, Hon. Wanjala. You are out of order. Hon. Otiende Amollo.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I wish to support that Petition. As I delve into it, I wish to assure my sister Hon. Millie Odhiambo that many of us men really respect women. We do not just respect women; we even fear them, unlike what she was talking about. Some of us have even gone further to join associations like

Hon. Mathenge.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Nyeri Town Constituency shares eight kilometres of the Aberdares Forest fence. In those eight kilometres, about 300 households were settled in the 1960s on three-acre farms. That is where I was born and brought up. We are eight in our family. As a result, the land available for cultivation has seriously diminished. Despite the electric fence surrounding the Aberdares, my home area has become completely food insecure. Despite serious conversations with conservationists, the problem remains. A community that was once food secure has been rendered vulnerable to hunger because it shares its food with sky and blue baboons and monkeys. This threat is increasing as the country pushes to increase tree cover.

Lastly, there is no revenue-sharing formula between the income that is generated by the national parks and local communities. We cannot continue to impoverish local communities at the expense of our wildlife. Therefore, it is necessary that, as a House, we pronounce ourselves on this petition. We must also vote for a sufficient budget to compensate. At this point, my people who have claims with the Ministry of Tourism and Wildlife have been waiting for about 13 to 14 years.

Point made. Yes, Hon. Jaldesa. One minute.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. As much as we respect the Petitioner's call to harmonise medical and veterinary professions, they are not the same. The university entry requirements are different. The length of training is different. The work that the people do is different. Making a mistake in treating a goat or a dog is not the same as when treating a child. The issue of harmonisation does not even arise, but it is good to let them try their luck. However, to the best of my knowledge, veterinary and medical professions cannot be equated by any standard.

Thank you.

Hon. Wanjala will be the last one. Hon. Ruweida, you also want to say something on monkeys? (Hon. Ruweida Mohamed spoke off the record) Take one minute each.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. As the Chairman of the Committee on Implementation, I rise under Standing Order No. 91…

You are out of order, Hon. Wanjala. We are dealing with petitions. There is a petition on veterinary professionals and on monkeys. How does implementation come in?

This was in a petition that was here yesterday, and there were some things I wanted to correct.

You should rise at the right time. We are now dealing with Petitions. Hon. Ruweida.

Ahsante, Mhe. Spika. Ninaunga mkono ombi la hawa nyani kuwekwa kwenye orodha ya malipo. Nataka kama Bunge, kando na kuunga mkono, tuhakikishe Bajeti itengwe kubwa zaidi ya afya na barabara. Kwa sababu itakuwa ngumu kutofautisha ni mnyama mgani aliyeharibu hiyo mimea. Kwa hivyo, tujitayarishe na tuweke Bajeti kubwa.

Mhe. Spika wanaume wa Kenya wamekuwa kama nyani. Hawaheshimu magavana wanawake. Sisi wenyewe tuko wachache ila wao wanazidi. Kila ubaya inasemekana kwa magavana wanawake tu hapa Kenya. Ni kama wanaume ni wasafi sana. Tunataka tuongezeke tuwe wengi, lakini hao kidogo ambao wako saa yote wanakandamizwa. Huyu Gladys Wanga ni mweupe pepepe…

Yes, Hon. Wanjala.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I rise, pursuant to Standing Order No. 91 concerning a statement made by the Leader of the Majority Party on the Floor of this House on 18th August 2026 during the afternoon sitting. The statement related to the status of a report allegedly tabled by the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning on asset financing firms accused of exploitative lending practises against boda boda operators. The enquiry concerned Mogo Motorcycles and other asset finance firms, following allegations that boda boda operators were subjected to exploitative lending practises. The allegations included high interest rates, hidden charges, unfair and unclear repayment terms, and repossession of motorcycles after minor defaults, which left many riders...

What is the point you are trying to make, because you are reciting something strange to this House?

Hon. Speaker, I am getting to it soon.

Go to what you want.

My issue here is that the Committee chaired by Hon. Kuria Kimani has held hearings with more than 50 affected riders. But to date, the report has not been tabled in this House. Yet yesterday, it was being said that the resolution had been made. The Committee on Implementation deals only with resolutions that are passed by the House. Therefore...

Noted. Thank you, Hon. Wanjala. Point clarified. I was in the Chair. The Leader of the Majority said you have not implemented a resolution. You are saying there is no resolution. Right? Let the chips lie where they fell.

Take your seats. Hon. Members, I have committed those two petitions as I directed. One on veterinary doctors to the Public Petitions Committee and one on monkeys to the Departmental Committee on Tourism and Wildlife.

Hon. Speaker, I beg your indulgence on the ruling that you have just made, on the matter of the medical doctors going to the Public Petitions Committee. How I wish we would take them to the Departmental Committee on Labour so that there is broad determination. Petitions can be very strong. We once held one here, and it has stood the test of time to this day. Therefore, the Departmental Committee on Labour can properly deal with the issue of harmonisation of salaries.

Thank you.

Leader of the Majority Party, is that all right?

I agree. I think labour issues are best dealt within the Departmental Committee on Labour.

I, therefore, direct the Petition on harmonisation of remuneration between veterinary doctors and human doctors be sent to the Departmental Committee on Labour. Yes, Hon. Millie Odhiambo.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to request permission to welcome the Ugandan delegation.

Go ahead on behalf of all of us.

On behalf of the entire House, I wish to welcome the Ugandan delegation. As a neighbouring country, we have a lot of things in common. Aside from the colonial boundaries that were drawn, you can clearly see my name is Hon. Millie Odhiambo, and I heard you say a lot of Os. You never know; maybe some of them are my relatives who remained in Uganda. But that is on a light note. On behalf of Parliament, I wish to welcome them.

I do not think they are Luos. They sounded like Tesos.

Tesos and Luos are also relatives.

Tesos are closer to Turkanas than to Luos. Hon. Members, allow me also to acknowledge, in the Speaker’s Gallery, Kamahindu Junior School from Lari Constituency, Kiambu County; Kipkeino School from Turbo Constituency, Uasin Gishu County and in the Public Gallery, Dukana Junior School from North Horr Constituency, Marsabit County. On my behalf and on behalf of the House, we welcome the students, the teachers and those accompanying them to the House of Parliament.

Next Order.

Deputy Leader of the Majority Party.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. From this desk, I also want to welcome the Ugandans. Oh! They have left.

They are gone.

Thank you. You know, I went to the Parliament of Uganda and learnt interesting things there. Where the army sits on a bench in Parliament, which I think is very interesting.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following papers on the Table of the House:

Thank you, Hon. Owen. Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs, Hon. George Best.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table:

Report of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs on its consideration of the Criminal Procedure Code (Amendment) Bill, (National Assembly Bill No. 55 of 2025).

Thank you. Hon. Members, as we go to Questions and Statements…

Members on their feet, take your seats. Hon. Wanjala, take the nearest seat. Thank you. (Question put and agreed to) Next Order.

Members on their feet, take the nearest seat. (Question put and agreed to

Hon. Donya, take the nearest seat. (Question put and agreed to) Next Order.

Thank you. Hon. Bedzimba, take your seat. (Question put and agreed to) (The Bill was read a Second Time and committed to the Committee of the whole House)

Hon. Members, we will now go back to Order No. 7. Can you call it out?

Hon. Owen Baya, can you search and bring to the House the Cabinet Secretary (CS) for Education? Have you found the Cabinet Secretary? Cabinet Secretary, welcome to the House. Yes, Owen?

Hon. Speaker, under your instruction that I search and find the Cabinet Secretary for Education, I want to report that I have searched, found and delivered him to this Chamber for the process to continue.

You search, find, capture and bring him to the House.

Yes, I did that, Hon. Speaker. Much obliged.

Thank you. Before we call out the first Question, in the Public Gallery, there is St. Joseph's Girls Kakamega from Lurambi in Kakamega County. We welcome the students, the teachers and those accompanying them to Parliament.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. We are aware that insecurity cases in Bahati have continued to rise, including incidents of sexual and gender-

Hon. Njoki, which Question are you reading? Your Question in the Order Paper is not what I am hearing from you. What are you saying?

I am reading the Question: Could the Cabinet Secretary state what measures the Ministry is putting in place to review and harmonise school reporting times in public institutions to ensure the safety, welfare and well-being of learners, while maintaining effective learning hours and explain whether the Ministry has assessed the insecurity risks that are faced by learners who are required to travel very early in the morning?

Are we having the same Order Paper? What you are reading is different. Do you have today’s Order Paper? Can you be furnished with it from the Table?

Can I read what is in the Order Paper because this is what I had written?

Hon. Njoki, you know very well that you do not come here to read what you wrote. You come to read what is in the Order Paper.

It is the same. It is the same. It is here.

The Table Office normally edits Questions when you write them, to give them a clearer meaning. However, carry the same.

It is the same.

Go ahead.

Sorry, Hon. Speaker. It is the same. Let me just repeat it again.

Could the Cabinet Secretary state the measures that are being taken by the Ministry to review and harmonise school reporting times in public learning institutions to safeguard the safety, welfare and well-being of learners, while ensuring that adequate learning hours are maintained?

Correct.

Clarify whether the Ministry will issue appropriate guidelines to heads of public learning institutions to review and adjust reporting times, particularly in areas that are experiencing insecurity and increased cases of sexual and gender- based violence, including Bahati Constituency? Outline the immediate measures that are being taken to enhance the safety and security of learners and ensure their unhindered access to education.

Thank you. That is what we have. Cabinet Secretary? The Cabinet Secretary for Education (Mr. Julius Ogamba): Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Thank you, Members, for the invitation to respond to these Questions.

In response to the first Question, the Basic Education Act of 2013 and the Regulations thereunder established the legal framework governing official opening hours, learners' reporting times, and the safety and welfare of all our learners. Regulation 84 of the Basic Education Regulations of 2015 prescribes the official operating hours for day public and private institutions. The official operating hours for all day public and private institutions shall be from Monday to Friday, as follows:

From 8.00 a.m. to 3.30 p.m. for class hours and 3.30 p.m. to 4.45 p.m. for co-curricular activities. Regulation 84, subsection 2 of the Basic Education Regulations 2015 stipulates that no day institution of basic education and training shall require learners to report earlier than

Let us have Hon. Mrembo.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker, for those answers. But I am a bit worried because I asked the same question earlier and I was given a similar response. I wrote directly to the Ministry and I was given the same response. Maybe, the Cabinet Secretary may need to emphasise to school heads the importance of all the policies in place and of students reporting cases of abuse early. I have suffered because many of my children have experienced sexual-based violence (SBV). The latest incident is of children who had acid poured on them. We may need to issue circulars. That would be important.

Thank you. Cabinet Secretary, you have outlined very good policies, but the Questioner thinks they are not disseminated to schools and enforced by your teachers. Let us have one joyrider. Yes, Member for Mandera South. Go ahead.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I thank the Cabinet Secretary for the response. I wanted to know whether the Ministry has mapped out specific schools and sub-counties as high risk for insecurity or SBV, and whether there exists

Thank you. Is that Hon. Gikaria?

Yes.

Yes, Hon. Gikaria. (Hon. David Mwalika’s phone rang) Who is the Member whose gadget is making noise? Serjeant-at-Arms, who is the Member doing that?

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. First of all, I thank my dear sister for asking this very important question. As you have alluded, we have very good policies that are never implemented in schools. So, it is up to the Ministry. For example, how much are schools supposed to charge in fees? There are circulars to that effect, which are never followed by the principals of those learning institutions.

It is usually very sad as I am coming to Nairobi on Tuesdays to see tiny little kids on the road at around 5.00 a.m., waiting for matatus to go to school. That matter should be addressed to ensure the safety of learners. The Cabinet Secretary should raise that issue with the regional offices, so that they implement and follow up on the same. We appreciate the existence of the policies, but implementation is most important.

Thank you.

Point made. Let us have Hon. Ruweida as the last one on that.

Mhe. Spika, suala hili linafaa kuangaliwa sana. Mvulana mmoja wa shule iliyomo Lamu Mashariki aliuawa ndani ya shule. Mzazi alipeleka mtoto shuleni akasome lakini akaletewa maiti. Je, skuli imechukua jukumu gani? Waziri anafaa atuambie kama inafaa shule ichukue jukumu maanake inauma sana. Inafaa Waziri atuelezee kuwa jambo kama hili likitokea, skuli inafaa ichukue jukumu ndio tukio hilo lisitokee tena siku nyingine.

Cabinet Secretary, Hon. Njoki Mrembo’s and Hon. Gikaria’s were comments. They do not deserve your response. Just deal with the last one, although Hon. Ruweida has not given any particulars of the child. It is just fiction. The Member just said a child went to school and a corpse was brought back home.

It happened in Faza Secondary School. I have forgotten the name of the child, but it the incident occurred in Faza Secondary School. I can bring the name.

Cabinet Secretary, in the context of safety, that is the only way you can answer it since you do not have specific facts.

The Cabinet Secretary for Education (Mr Julius Ogamba): In the context of safety, Hon. Speaker, where such a situation happens, the police are called in to investigate. If it is found that there was negligence on the part of the school, the law takes its course. However,

Hon. Ruweida, subsequent to that, you can furnish details to the Cabinet Secretary so that he can look at that specific case, if what you are saying is true and I believe it is.

Question 016/2026

Hon. Geoffrey Odanga, Member for Matayos. (Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo spoke off the record) You know the rules, Member for Funyula. There is no general public interest. If any Member wants you to ask the Question for him, they write to the Speaker to nominate them as a proxy to ask the Question. Do you have any writing to that effect?

Hon. Speaker, not necessarily.

Order, Hon. Oundo. There is nothing like not necessarily. Rules are rules and they are your rules. You wrote them. Take your seat.

Question dropped. (Question 16/2026 dropped) Question 17/2026

Hon. Robert Basil, Member for Yatta.

Order, Hon. Oundo. Take your seat. For you to start walking in a menacing manner towards the Speaker…

I am harmless.

From the recent utterances I have been hearing from you, you are not harmless.

Bring the next Cabinet Secretary. Is Hon. Julius Sunkuli in the House? Is Hon. Ken Chonga in the House? Is Hon. Parashina in the House?

Yes.

Excellent. Joyriders should be ready on that. Members, if you file Questions and you cause the Speaker to summon Cabinet Secretaries to the House, the very least you can do is, if you know you are not going to be available, write to us. Furnish us with

Hon. Speaker, I totally agree that rules are rules but remember Standing Order 1 gives you the discretion to deal with matters of public interest. The question that was filed by Hon. Odanga is of public interest, but it is now overtaken by events. We would have dealt with it because those of us who are on the ground know the magnitude of the problem. I was just seeking your advice.

Hon. Oundo, you know very well that Standing Order 1 talks of matters not provided for in the Standing Orders. It is provided in the Standing Orders that a Member who is not present or not likely to be present writes to the Speaker and nominates another Member to ask the Question or make request a Statement on their behalf. I am sure you know that.

Is the Cabinet Secretary present? Hon. Owen.

Hon. Speaker, I have searched and found that the Cabinet Secretary for Wildlife and Tourism is in the House. I am happy to present her to you and to the House.

Thank you very much., Hon. Speaker. (The Cabinet Secretary was ushered into the Chamber) Cabinet Secretary, take your seat. Welcome to the House. We have three Questions filed to your Ministry. I hope we will be done in 40 minutes. The first one is No.018/2026.

Hon. Julius Sunkuli, Member for Kilgoris. Question 18/2026

Hon. Speaker, defend us from the harmless. (Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo stood along the gangway)

Hon. Speaker, I beg to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife the following question:

Could the Cabinet Secretary:

Cabinet Secretary.

Hold on, Cabinet Secretary. Hon. Wanjala, are you the one who is engaged in an animated discussion? (Hon. Raphael Wanjala spoke off the record) Go on Cabinet Secretary.

The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Ms. Rebecca Miano): Number three is building local capacity and increasing community participation in tourism and this is for the regional economic development. The establishment of the campus will contribute to the direct and indirect economic development of Ildolisho and the wider Narok region by creating a new centre of economic activity.

Number three was to clarify whether public participation was conducted prior to the approval of that project. The Kenya Utalii College Council established the need to open a branch in the Mara region and approached the community represented by the Board of Management of Ildolisho Primary School resulting in the identification and provision of approximately 15.98 acres of community land for the proposed campus. Accordingly, stakeholder engagement is also being maintained throughout the project implementation process.

Number four was to provide the estimated cost of the project by indicating the total funds allocated and the actual expenditure incurred on the construction of the Ildolisho branch. The estimated cost of the project is Ksh486 million. The total funds allocated in the first phase is Ksh50 million and the actual expenditure to date is Ksh17 million for phase 1, which entails the construction of perimeter fence and a gatehouse.

I submit, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Sunkuli.

Hon. Speaker, very interesting answer. I got the…

The Question is even more interesting because it is like you do not want the college.

I really want the college, but I do not want a ‘white elephant’. First of all, on this question of public participation, if the Cabinet Secretary could explain whether apart from the people of Ildolisho Primary School, was any other member of the public consulted and whether it is the policy of the Ministry not to involve elected leaders or administration at all in public participation?

On the question of Ksh17 million and Ksh50 million, is that all, Madam Cabinet Secretary? Was that project actually planned? Is there any other money voted for it in this particular regard because it seems to me like Ksh50 million is from the Tourist Fund only. Is there more money and how do you hope to finish this project in 2027/2028, if all you have right now is less than Ksh50 million? Is that really planned?

Yes, Hon. Shinali.

Thank you Hon. Speaker. I would like to congratulate the Cabinet Secretary for the policy by the Government that training by Utalii College should be decentralised to where tourist attraction is. What I would like to inform the Cabinet Secretary is that there are a lot of tourist attraction areas in Western, including Kakamega Forest, the Crying Stone, Mount Elgon and many tourists come to that area throughout the year. What is the plan of establishing a college in Western region, to cater for that region? Thank you.

Hon. Millie.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Let me also raise a question and proudly say that the CS was my classmate at the university. I may use that to bribe you on a light note, but to request also in the same manner and say that my constituency has a lot of tourism potential, like the bird-watching islands of Mbasha- Namakhulo and many others. Many people come, even to Ruma National Park, which we share with two other constituencies, Suba South and Ndhiwa. I think more recently we saw the roads and people are laughing, but that has tourism potential. It is the last home of the Roan antelope. I am just wondering, because you can even hear the entire Western circuit has no college, but if you look at it, my place actually has greater potential, including water sports and all that. When do you intend to initiate one in Suba North?

Hon. (Dr) Pukose, then Hon. Rindikiri and then Cabinet Secretary you answer before we go to the next Question.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to thank the Cabinet Secretary Miano for the responses. My question is almost similar to what Hon. Shinali has raised. We have Mt. Elgon National Park and there is Mt. Elgon Lodge. Initially, when Hon. Osero Kibagendi was the Chairman of the Tourism Board, Ksh20 million was set aside to renovate the Mt. Elgon Lodge but, up to date, nothing has happened. Is there a plan by the Cabinet Secretary now that you are devolving Utalii College to various places? I can hear my colleague, Hon. Sunkuli, seems not to be happy that it is being devolved to Narok. Can she devolve it to Mt. Elgon because I do not think we need public participation for you to do that. But we will be happy if you can convert Mt. Elgon Lodge to be part of the Utalii College so that our children there can train well and also serve in the tourism sector in that region of Western Kenya.

Yes, Hon. Sunkuli?

Well, my great former Chairman who we worked with in the Departmental Committee on Health, is misrepresenting a fact. I have not said we do not want Utalii College in Narok. I am asking about a particular village and I have not gone into personal issues. The Cabinet Secretary knows the reasons it was put in that village. It has no relationship with the Mara at all and I wish that it could be put in the Mara.

Hon. Sunkuli, I do not see any logic in what you are saying because you want a college, you are resisting a college, you want a college, you are raising technicalities about the college. As a lawyer, you know the difference between form and substance. Yes Hon. Rindikiri?

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Madam Cabinet Secretary, the Eastern circuit of tourism extends from Samburu all the way to Meru National Park, Lewa Conservancy, which is in my constituency.

You also want a college there. Just ask the question.

Yes, Hon. Speaker. I was giving the background because she may not be aware of the potential, particularly in my constituency. We have Lewa Conservancy, Garidari, Nkunga Forest, where we have the largest elephant breeding areas in Kenya. Sirimon Gate and Mount Kenya National Park are in my constituency. We also have the only Bongo Park in this country and other small areas that need a lot of focus. The Ministry has not given sufficient attention to the potential in this region. One way of realising its economic potential is by developing infrastructure that can support the tourism sector in the region.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Cabinet Secretary, you can respond to those five short interventions. The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Ms Rebecca Miano): Thank you, Hon. Speaker. In regard to public participation for the Eldorisho Campus, I can confirm that it is our policy to conduct public participation. The information I have is that public participation resulted in the donation of community land. We will, however, continue to engage the Member of Parliament on any outstanding issues so that we can work together to establish the campus.

Regarding the budget, we have a provision in the 2026/2027 Budgetand in 2027/2028. We will also have a provision to complete the project, as the project cost is Ksh486 million. The initial funds provided were for the outer infrastructure, including the fence and the gate for the project area. That is what has been released, and so far, Ksh17 million out of Ksh50 million has been spent.

We have divided the country into nine tourism circuits. The western circuit is richly endowed, including birdwatching, Ruma National Park, Rusinga Island and many other tourist attractions. We have mapped all the tourism facilities and attractions in the 47 counties. We had a meeting with all the County Executive Committee Members (CECMs)...

Cabinet Secretary, save us time. The questions are: From Hon. Shinali, why do you not have a college in the West, and do you plan to have one? From Hon. Millie, why do you not have a college in her region, and when do you plan to have one? From Hon. Pukose, why do you not have a college in the Mount Elgon area, and when do you plan to have one? From Hon. Rindikiri, why have you neglected the area from Laikipia and Samburu all the way to Meru National Park? Are you planning to have a college there? Quod erat demonstrandum (QED). Members, are those your questions?

Yes. The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Ms Rebecca Miano): Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I am aware that, so far, the ones that have been approved are colleges in Kisumu, Kitui and Kilifi. We will continue to consider the others so that, in the coming financial year, we can complete the feasibility studies.

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

Yes, Hon. Millie.

Hon. Speaker, paradoxically, the marginalisation of the Suba area was manifest on Sunday. I have said it on this Floor before, but people do not take it seriously. I have no problem with you establishing a college in Kisumu—even Suba people are people, and they belong to this country. You have seen how terrible our roads are. However, if a college is being established in this region, Kisumu should not be the only priority. Establish it in Kisumu, but prioritise Suba first.

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Hon. Rebecca Miano): Point taken. We shall prioritise Suba.

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

Yes, Hon. Wanjala. What is your point of order? Use the microphone. There is one there.

On the same note, Hon. Speaker, Western Kenya, right from Kakamega to Budalang’i along Lake Victoria, has very good scenery for tourism, very beautiful islands and clean, fresh water. This means that even cable cars can be installed there. The Cabinet Secretary has not visited those places. They focus on Mombasa and, when it comes to Western Kenya, Kisumu, instead of investing in tourism in areas where they can benefit more, particularly Budalang’i Constituency in Busia County.

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

What is your point of order, Hon. Shinali?

Hon. Speaker, my question was very specific, and I am expecting a very specific answer.

She was still answering.

Even as she answers that, we have other tourist attractions that are coming up, such as bullfighting. What is she doing about them? She has neglected or marginalised the Western region.

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

Yes, what is your point of order, Hon. Kajwang’? Cabinet Secretary, note all those.

Hon. Speaker, after listening to apes, monkeys and baboons in the afternoon, is this distinguished Member implying that you must have a training school for Utalii College to be able to be proficient in bullfighting?

I do not think that is what he meant. Hon. Bensuda?

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I would like the Cabinet Secretary to enlighten us on the programmes, because you are talking about Utalii colleges, which entail skill development, empowerment, and nurturing and building our tourism sector. I am perturbed because I am not seeing visible and impactful programmes for our youth in terms of cultural activities. I believe that when you are talking about tourism, you are not only referring to people coming from outside the country, whether from within Africa or internationally. We want to see how tourism is incorporated into our youth development.

Hon. Bensuda, you are completely out of step.

Hon. Speaker, just give me time. Probably, the approach that I have used...

You are joyriding on a Question by Hon. Julius Sunkuli.

Yes.

Now you are veering off to something totally different.

But, Hon. Speaker, who trains at Utalii colleges?

Ask your question.

What programmes does the Cabinet Secretary have to ensure that our youth are fully involved in getting opportunities for training in Utalii colleges? What about those who are not able to access those opportunities? What efforts are we making to ensure that the tourism industry... What efforts are we making to ensure that cultural practices and activities take care of our youth across the nation?

Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Yes, Hon. Owen. You are the last joyrider.

Thank you for saving the best for last. While we ask many questions about what will happen... I want to sincerely say that we have achieved a college in Kilifi.

It is the next question.

Yes, but the context is a bit different. We have achieved a college in Kilifi. I want to say this particularly, Hon. Speaker: The Cabinet Secretary came here and promised... I asked a question on the same matter some time ago, and the Cabinet Secretary promised that it would be completed this year. It has now been completed.

Are you giving evidence of her credibility?

Yes.

You have finished.

If you allow me, I would like to add something. We have the Morrill Act, 1862 and Morrill Act, 1890 in the United States of America (USA). These are land grant Acts which USA used to set up colleges everywhere. They became centres of development. Many States like Massachusetts and Mississippi, which looked like they would not develop, developed around the colleges. They were agriculture- and engineering-oriented.

I would like to advise the Cabinet Secretary that the questions that Members are raising are very important. We need to pick them up and have a good strategic plan for the Ministry on the establishment of Utalii Colleges all over the country. This will not only spur the development of tourism, but also the development of towns. Other services will come up. Other people will build around the colleges. Those towns will become big cities in future. Probably, the Ministry of Tourism and Wildlife needs to have a report and table a strategic plan in this House on how they will accomplish this.

You have made your point made. Cabinet Secretary, respond to those concerns quickly. Some are just comments.

The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Ms Rebecca Miano): Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Due to financial constraints, the colleges are being grouped into regions and tourism circuits, and depending on the availability of land. However, we would like to affirm that even when we are admitting students at the main Kenya Utalii College and any other campus, we ensure that we observe regional quotas and sensitivities. I would like to confirm that I visited the Western Circuit, which is one of the most endowed. We are mapping the new products. (Hon. Raphael Wanjala spoke off the record)

Ignore him. Just go on. Order, Hon. Wanjala.

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

Let her finish. The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Ms Rebecca Miano): The youth is part of our priority. In marketing this country, we partner with the youth, in terms of creativity. In some of the ongoing trainings, we are reviewing the curriculum to ensure that we fully entrench activities that can benefit the youth.

I submit.

Hon. Wanjala, what is it?

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. The tourism industry can do a lot and employ our youth who are jobless, but the Ministry does not create those opportunities. If you go to South Africa, it is the only place in Africa where you will get cable cars. We also have them in South America.

That is not true. There are cable cars in Kenya.

This Cabinet Secretary should go to Budalangi and see the kind of cable cars that they can initiate for the employment of our youth. They can also establish sport fishing. They can also build hotels on the islands and mountains. If they do this, the boys who languish in poverty will get employment. Otherwise, training them and not giving them jobs will not help them. Let us also create activities that will employ them after training.

You have made your point. I would like us to go to the next Question. Yes, Hon. (Dr) Pukose. (Hon. Raphael Wanjala spoke off the record) Order, Hon. Wanjala. The next time she comes to Western, she will alert you to be there.

(Hon. Raphael Wanjala and Hon. Atieno Bensuda spoke off the record)

Order, Hon. Raphael Wanjala. Take your seat. Hon. Wanjala and Hon. Bensuda, you are disorderly.

Hon. Speaker, I raised a very pertinent issue about Mount Elgon Lodge. I even mentioned that Hon. Osero Kibagendi was the Chair of Kenya Tourism Board. They set aside Ksh20 million to….

Did you say that they set aside Ksh20 billion?

They set aside Ksh20 million to renovate that place. She has not spoken about it. She has mentioned that she was in the Western Circuit. I expect her to bring it up. There is enough land for Kenya Tourism Board in that place, which you are aware of.

I know. Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Ms Rebecca Miano): Thank you, Hon. Speaker. In the reorganisation of the Government, through the Executive Order that was issued in 2024, the lodges— including Mount Elgon Lodge—were transferred to the Ministry of Investments, Trade and Industry because of the shares held there by the Kenya Development Corporation (KDC).

Hon. Ken Chonga, ask Question 19/2026. Question 19/2026

Hon. Speaker, I rise to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife the following Question:

Could the Cabinet Secretary—

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Ms Rebecca Miano): Hon. Speaker, I do not have information that any officers were denied access to Ronald Ngala Utalii College. We have a team that is working on its operationalisation which presented a joint report. Kenya Utalii College was represented in the Committee. The Ministry remains committed to ensuring that all participating institutions work collaboratively towards the operationalisation of Ronald Ngala Utalii College.

The second question is to clarify the respective mandates and responsibilities of the Tourism Fund and the Kenya Utalii College in relation to the management, operationalisation and handover of the Ronald Ngala Utalii College. The mandate of the Kenya Utalii College in relation to the Ronald Ngala Utalii College is to undertake tourism and hospitality training, offer curriculum and technical support, and undertake capacity building for the whole sector. The mandate of the Tourism Fund in relation to Ronald Ngala Utalii College is to provide finances for the construction and development of the college and resources for the operationalisation of the college that is being spearheaded by the State Department for Tourism with the two agencies playing their respective roles.

The third question is to clarity whether the planned commencement of operations on 1st September 2026 will proceed as scheduled. Hon. Speaker, the commencement of the operations of Ronald Ngala Utalii College remains as scheduled for 1st of September 2026. Admission of students is currently ongoing and all is set for the operationalisation.

I submit, Hon. Speaker.

Hon. Chonga.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I have been checking for the date when I actually presented a petition to the first question. The officers from Kenya Utalii College on that day, comprising of officers from the front office, maintenance and security with a diary that the Kenya Tourism Board which is mandated to construct that facility being aware, were denied entry. After they were denied entry, being their area Member of Parliament, they called me. They also called the Deputy County Commissioner (DCC). We had to make an intervention. We were not given any tangible reasons why those officers were denied entry and to my surprise, the Cabinet Secretary was not aware. I am very much afraid. If this really happened and the Cabinet Secretary is denying here, then I do not know what is going on.

The third question is on whether they are ready. The college is supposed to admit at least an initial 1,000 students. The accommodation at that facility can only hold 250 students. The area where this college is constructed has no facility whatsoever. That is where my office is. I have been trying to intervene so that, maybe, the affordable housing project, which is going on in Mtwapa, could be hastened to accommodate some of those students because not all them come from Kilifi. They come from various parts of the Kenya. I expected the Cabinet Secretary to tell us the arrangements that are in place to accommodate those students. If at all there are arrangements, they can be picked from wherever they stay to the college. This is why I am concerned on the feasibility of that facility being opened on the 1st.

She said it will be open on 1st?

Yes. She has said so.

Do you have evidence to the contrary?

Because of what I am now asking?

Yes.

First, regarding accommodation of the students.

That point is clear.

Second, are there any facilities in terms of transport arrangements where students can be picked from wherever they are? That is my concern.

Cabinet Secretary, hold on. There is one more joyrider. Hon. Julius Sunkuli?

I am glad to hear that, at long last, Ronald Ngala Utalii College will be opened after many years of suffering from the same problems which we suffered from, which is that it was placed in a remote area. My question to the Cabinet Secretary is this: Now that it is the policy of the Government to proliferate Utalii Colleges, and yet Utalii College was supposed to set very high standards…

Did you mean to devolve?

I used a different English word.

The word you used is inappropriate.

I meant to place them in different places. Will the Cabinet Secretary now ensure that the reasons why Utalii College was started in the first place, which was to maintain very high standards within the region, will still be upheld? Where will you get the trainers to keep those standards? What is the role of private tourism colleges that are coming up? Will they be better or worse than Utalii? Will this still be the Utalii College we know?

Hon. Mishi Mboko.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. First, I congratulate His Excellency Dr. William Samoei Ruto for ensuring that we actualise our dream as the coastal people to have Ronald Ngala Utalii College. The Coast region, being one of the best tourist

Hon. Shinali.

Since I came to this House, Utalii College has been appearing on budget lines, and that is more than 10 years ago. I am wondering whether the Cabinet Secretary now has better plans to ensure that the other devolved colleges she intends to put up will be constructed in a shorter time. If she has the figure, she could let us know how much Utalii College has cost to date.

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Ms Rebecca Miano): Thank you, Hon. Speaker. When we received this question on the denial of entry to Kenya Utalii College personnel, I immediately called the Principal and he said they were not denied entry. If there was any misunderstanding, I confirm that it has been resolved. In case there was one, because the technical committee that is working on the operationalisation of the college did…

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker.

She has hardly responded to your questions. Let her finish, Hon. Ken Chonga. When you were asking questions, she was listening. Go on, Cabinet Secretary.

The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Ms Rebecca Miano): I received a report from the multisectoral committee that included Kenya Utalii College on 3rd August and the State Department has brought a comprehensive report on the readiness of the college to start operations on 1st of September. We are getting regular updates almost on a daily basis. I confirm that so far, arrangements are in place. The contractor on site has prioritised admissions on 1st. By yesterday, 500 student admissions had been processed for the various courses and I have information that they were notified. I submit, Hon. Speaker.

Accommodation. The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Ms Rebecca Miano): Accommodation facilities are there and I am told that the equipping and furnishing is ongoing.

Thank you. Yes, Hon. Chonga.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I am not in any contention with the Cabinet Secretary. That should be very clear. In fact, we are working very closely with the staff of Kenya Utalii College. I know the Cabinet Secretary is updated on that. However, my contention is she is saying if there were any problems, by now they have been resolved. Is she confirming that there are problems? That is exactly what she has said.

That is plain English.

That is exactly what she has said. So, is she confirming that there was, indeed, a problem?

Hon. Ken Chonga, take your seat. She has said she was not aware that anybody was turned away but in case such a thing happened, then it has been resolved because nothing untoward is going on except preparation for admission. That is what she said. If you have facts to the contrary, put them to her. This is because you are saying people were turned

It is not itching me. I asked a question about standards and I have not heard the answer.

Minister, he says you are proliferating colleges. I understand you to be devolving rather than proliferating? If you are creating many colleges, assure the House and the country that standards will be maintained in training the best-quality people to man our tourism sector. Hon. Kareke, you are the Chair of the Committee that oversees this Ministry. Right? What is it you want to ask? Give him the microphone.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I just wanted to know whether the Ministry has made a decision to open Ronald Ngala Utalii College as a distinct college or it will be part and parcel of Kenya Utalii College. What we are talking about, or the question that has been asked by the Hon. Member is this: Is Ronald Ngala Utalii College (KUC). Will it be opened as a standalone Ronald Ngala Utalii College or will it be opened as part and parcel of KUC? What I mean is whether it is KUC which will go and make it operational or it will be a standalone institution. Finally, the Cabinet Secretary can also clarify in terms of the budget. What amount of money will be needed to make the college operational? Thank you, Hon. Speaker.

Minister. The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Ms Rebecca Miano): Thank you, Hon. Speaker. In terms of standards, I want to confirm that the devolution of the training colleges will prioritise high standards. Looking at the growth in the tourism sector and the hospitality that Kenya is known for, we must ensure that we maintain high standards. Eventually, the Kenya Utalii College main campus in Nairobi is planning strategically to become a centre of excellence where even private colleges can bring their students for further excellence finishing. Basically, I want to confirm that we shall maintain high standards.

In terms of Ronald Ngala Utalii College, there were three options. The first was to open it as a constituent college of Kenya Utalii College. The second was to operationalise it as a stand-alone college. The third was to look for a strategic partner. For the time being, the easiest and most efficient way to operationalise the college is as a constituent college of Kenya Utalii College. Other options will be considered depending on the growth and expansion strategies going forward.

Indeed, Minister, if you want to maintain standards for this country, model it on Kenya Medical Training College (KMTC), where we have KMTC central leadership and management in Nairobi, with colleges across the country for the maintenance of standards. Yes, Hon. Julius.

In view of that answer, you can see that the issue is not the devolution of colleges. The issue is that, if we are starting new colleges, they are not necessarily the brothers or sisters of the Kenya Utalii College.

What you have said is what she is doing, not what she is not doing.

What I am saying is that it is not devolution. Devolution is totally different.

Semantics, semantics. Next. Yes, Professor. Is it on the same issue?

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Kenya Utalii College on Thika Road is a known as a world-class college with international training and linkages. It has been offering foreign languages, including German, French and others. For some time, that college has been closed. I just wanted to know the status of the Kenya Utalii College in Nairobi. For quite some time, since COVID, it has not been operational.

Minister. Yes, Hon. Kajwang’.

Hon. Speaker, the college that Members have been talking about happens to be in my constituency. I would not sit down here and hear Members mislead the House. That college has never been closed down. Never.

To the best of my knowledge too.

Even during the COVID-19 period, I visited that college and ate in that restaurant as a Member of Parliament for the college. The only issue is that it is under-funded. So, Bwana Kareke, you need to work with the Cabinet Secretary to bring us a budget that will bring up that college up to its standards. When Members are talking about whether they should have colleges in every constituency, I doubt if that is the policy of Government. People come into my constituency and study. In fact, very few people, a negligible number of students, come from my constituency. I do not begrudge them. They could come from Tana River, Mbita or from wherever. I think what we need is to fund those places and make them world-class institutions that can provide instruction and excellence.

You cannot be more right. Minister, I think that is a positive comment that you should take back to your office. I think, Professor, you are mistaking the closure of the hotel with the closure of the college. You pass by the road and you do not see the hotel operating and you think the college has been closed. That is not the case. Next is Question 20 of 2026 by Hon. Samuel Parashina.

Question 20/2026

Hon. Speaker, I rise to ask the Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife the following question:

Cabinet Secretary, proceed to respond. The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Ms Rebecca Miano): Thank you, Hon. Speaker and Members. Sixteen elephants were reported dead in the Amboseli ecosystem between 24th June and 31st July 2026. The deaths occurred as follows: Seven in Kimana Sanctuary, seven in Motikanju or Kuku Ranch and one in Kitenden Ranch.

The leading line of inquiry is toxic exposure. This was informed by preliminary analysis conducted jointly by the University of Nairobi, the Government Chemist and other public and private laboratories on samples collected from the elephants. The analysis detected some chemicals in some samples, while other samples were negative.

Hon. Speaker, I want to confirm that the Government has constituted a multi-agency team that will issue a conclusive report after comprehensive quantitative toxicology, laboratory cross-reconciliation, environmental analysis and security investigations. When that is complete, we will share the report.

Hon. Parashina, if you are satisfied, we can leave it there.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I also appreciate the presence of the Cabinet Secretary and the answers she has given. I just want it to be noted that the 16 elephants are not just numbers. They are the heritage of Amboseli and they are the source of our livelihood and the pride of our people. If you allow me, I just want to go through the answers given to the House or the answers that have been given to me in brief.

Hon. Speaker, when she talked about the date, 24th June to 31st July, meaning 16 elephants were lost by that time when I presented the Report. However, yesterday, we lost another elephant. I have a report that yesterday we also lost another elephant. So, the numbers might even be over 16. Can she give us the status up to today, or up to yesterday? I appreciate that cyanide has been suspected to be the poison, but research is being done to prove this

Where is that coming from?

In number four, part II, community meetings are being convened with ranch leadership. She talked about that. Then she mentioned pesticide safety. I wanted to ask whether the Government is supplying the community and farmers there with the pesticide. If there is a pesticide that is suspected of causing the deaths of the elephants, is the Government supplying it to the community? Is it also monitoring its use?

Thank you.

Hon. Speaker, I want to conclude with the issue of the safety of our people. The Cabinet Secretary needs to explain to us the death of those elephants. Imagine we do not even have a hyena that died and yet, they ate the carcass. We are not seeing other animals dying as a result of the cyanide. We are wondering whether the elephant is the only animal that is moving around the community and the ecosystem.

What are you saying? That hyenas ate the carcass and did not die?

Yes! They did not die. I am asking why it was only the elephants.

As I conclude, allow me to add something so that I do not have to stand twice.

Go ahead. You are interrogating the answers.

Can the Cabinet Secretary give us a brief status since the community is concerned about what is happening? Under Article 187, we are dealing with the transfer of functions relating to Amboseli National Park. People are asking whether there is any connection between what is happening now and the ongoing developments and uncertainty surrounding the transfer. On community engagement, we had asked you to come and explain the status of the transfer of functions relating to Amboseli National Park to the County Government of Kajiado.

Finally, last year in November, and I am sure the Cabinet Secretary was also in the meeting, the President announced that, because of the community's contribution to tourism, a college specialising in wildlife and tourism was to be established. Not Kenya Utalii College. I would, therefore, like to know the progress made by the Ministry on this matter.

Thank you.

Cabinet Secretary. After that long speech, there are only two or three issues you can respond to.

The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Hon. Rebecca Miano): Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I want to confirm that the loss of the elephants was such a sad moment because they were part of our heritage and it affected all of us. I seek your indulgence to say that investigations are still ongoing. Laboratory testing is also underway. I have been informed that we need another 14 days so that we do not speculate but instead, provide accurate responses and establish clearly what may have happened.

The Cabinet Secretary, as a matter of interest, did you visit Amboseli National Park after that tragedy? After the tragedy, it was featured on international television. It was on every media channel, including radio and newspapers, including The Washington Post. I watched a lot of news and was saddened to see Kenya appearing on international screens for all the wrong reasons. Did you or the leadership of your Ministry visit to, at least, show empathy and concern for the community and the management of the park?

The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Hon. Rebecca Miano): Yes, I can confirm that our Ministry responded immediately to obtain first-hand information. It was a very trying moment. Thank you.

Yes, Hon. Parashina. Maliza.

Hon. Speaker, I also need to confirm that the Kenya Wildlife Service (KWS) came. However, I can tell you that the Cabinet Secretary has never visited. For sure, I speak as a lawmaker here and I can substantiate my words anywhere. You have never stepped into Amboseli.

Even as we deal with those issues and the many challenges facing the community, my community is asking us to confirm that in the House. You can take a step, come there and assure them of their safety. You have been given that responsibility to take care of them. Do not leave it to KWS alone. Please come and hear what we are trying to address. There are so many issues that we need to address there.

Thank you.

The Cabinet Secretary, Hon. Parashina, does not have to persuade you to go to Amboseli. I direct you to visit Amboseli National Park within the next one week, assess the situation first-hand and bring a report back to the House. (The Cabinet Secretary spoke off the record) Confirm in The Hansard.

The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Hon. Rebecca Miano): Much obliged, Hon. Speaker.

Yes, Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Speaker, I beg your indulgence because I have stepped in late. However, I have listened to some of the issues raised, especially those concerning Amboseli. Allow me to use this opportunity to speak to our courts and the Judiciary. There are many matters that end up in court and judges sometimes make pronouncements without considering how many other lives may be affected by a simple court injunction. That is what happened in the case of Amboseli. The Government's intention to hand over Amboseli to the County Government of Kajiado is the right thing to do. The people of Kajiado have been yearning for that handover for many years. You will remember that when we were campaigning, I saw you at Ngatataek, which is near Hon. Parashina’s and Hon. Memusi's constituencies, at the border of the two constituencies. Even you pronounced yourself on that matter.

Indeed, His Excellency the President went ahead and handed over the instruments necessary for the transfer to the County Government of Kajiado. However, somebody went to court and a judge without considering how many other lives would be affected by the injunction, stopped the entire process. The people of Kajiado continue to suffer as a result. They would benefit from Amboseli National Park in the same way that the people of Narok benefit from the Maasai Mara National Park. However, they cannot because of the court

Thank you. Minister, you have heard that. Accelerate your challenge to the court process. You are a lawyer and I am sure you know. Do not just wait. Hire the good lawyers in town. If you need my services – although I no longer go to court – we can help you.

Hon. Parashina, I want us to move to something else.

Hon. Speaker, I had asked a question that concerns everyone. It is a good question. It was there at around three.

What is it about?

It is about the issue of compensation.

Compensation for the loss of elephants?

No, not for the loss of elephants. It is meant for the loss of property and life. For a fact, we allocate a huge budget that totals to Ksh500 million, then the Ministry allocates the entire county Kshs49 million. So, we wonder what was the rationale for allocating approximately Kshs50 million when people have lost their brothers and sisters. What does the Ministry recommend about compensation?

Finally, I appreciate the remarks of the Leader of the Majority Party on the people of Kajiado waiting for the transfer. I appreciate his support for the same.

Thank you.

Thank you. Minister, do you have anything to say to that? The Cabinet Secretary for Tourism and Wildlife (Ms Rebecca Miano, EGH): Hon. Speaker, when the current administration under the leadership of His Excellency the President took power in 2022, there was a backlog on human-wildlife conflict compensation dating back to 2014. However, after 2022, we have seen deliberate effort and action to increase the compensation. In the 2022/2023 Financial Year, Kshs908 million was put in the budget; in the 2023/2024 Financial Year, Kshs480 million was put in the budget; in the 2024/2025 Financial Year, Kshs950 million was put in the budget; in the 2025/2026 Financial Year, Kshs950 million was put in the budget; and in the 2026/2027 Financial Year, Kshs1 billion was put in the budget. We have worked hard to try and reduce the backlog. In the next one year, we shall be current

Thank you, Minister. We are done with the three questions. You are now released to go back to your office. (Hon. Umulkher Harun spoke off the record) Hon. Umulkher, what is it? Is it anything to do with this Minister?

Hold on, Minister.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I wanted to joyride on the comment on compensation, but it has been addressed. There is a need for a compensation request to be done by Garissa County. I have specifically written to the Minister inviting her to come to Garissa.

I also want to add on the issue of human-wildlife conflict. The last two weeks have been very painful for the residents of Garissa County. The county lost a boy of 11 years from an attack by a hippopotamus and another person who was attacked by a crocodile. We have such human-wildlife conflict in Garissa County. I really want the Minister to come to Garissa to speak directly to the community and relay her condolences to the community that has been affected.

Finally, there is need to support local conservancies. For example, Ishaqbini, Bour-Algi (Bula Argi) and various community groups under umbrellas like the Garissa County Ecotourism Conservation Association (GCECA) are local wildlife and eco-cultural conservancies in Garissa County can be used to promote tourism along the corridors of Garissa and the larger North-Eastern region. There is need to boost tourism in those areas. The Ministry must focus on supporting local conservancies that have already come up to do this job. That was just a comment, but largely, I want to joyride on the issues that have been raised on the human-wildlife conflict and compensation. I look forward to having the Minister in Garissa.

Thank you.

Minister, you have heard those comments. You can address them at an appropriate time.

Thank you, Minister. You can leave. (The Cabinet Secretary exited the Chamber)

The Member for Kitui County, Hon. Irene Kasalu informed the Speaker that she has gone to see a doctor. So, she is not able to make a request for statement to the

Hon. Umul Ker Kassim, the Member for Mandera County is absent. Question dropped. (Request for Statement dropped)

Responses. Hon. Tongoyo, do you have a response to Hon. Linet Chepkorir Toto? Is she in the House? She is not in the House. Deferred.

Hon. Speaker, I have it.

She loses the right to interrogate you. So, table the response. She will look at it from the Table Office.

Most obliged, Hon. Speaker. (Hon. Tongoyo tabled the Statement)

Next Order.

Hon. Tongoyo, is that your Motion? Ken Chonga, that is yours. Take the Floor.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Although I was not prepared for that. However, the nominee, Ms Flora Nduku Mutua, appeared before the Committee. That was on Tuesday. She went through the process of vetting by the Committee.

Hon. Ken Chonga, you are seasoned. That is not how to move a Motion. You know what to do.

Thank you, Speaker. I am guided.

Then read the Motion as printed on the Order Paper, word for word, and then you can start your rigmarole.

Sorry, Hon. Speaker. I think I was preparing some other submissions.

I beg to move the following Motion: THAT, taking into consideration the findings of the Departmental

Proceed and tell the House everything your Committee went through and its findings, then call your seconder.

Order, Leader of the Majority Party! Allow the Chair to give the rationale. I was there; he has a lot of information about that interview. Hon. Chonga, tell the House what the Committee noted.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. On the findings of the Committee, after going through the documents that were tabled by the nominee, she was asked various questions, then the Committee considered her experience, her wealth of knowledge on matters of public service and her career path that spans over 30 years. The Committee was convinced that the nominee is up to the task for that position. As such, it recommended her approval.

Thank you.

Who is your seconder?

I request the Deputy Leader of the Majority Party to second.

Hon. Owen Baya.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. It is a pleasure to second this Motion by Hon. Ken Chonga on the consideration of a nominee for appointment to the Public Service Commission.

I want to start by saying this: Ms Flora Nduku Mutua is one lady who meets the criteria that the Committee was looking at. So, who is Flora Nduku Mutua, and why should she be appointed a member of the Public Service Commission? The nominee boasts robust academic qualifications, holding a Bachelor of Arts degree in Anthropology from the University of Nairobi. The same nominee has an MBA in Human Resource Management from Kenyatta University, my alma mater, and a Higher Diploma in Human Resource Management. So, if we are appointing her to the Public Service Commission, you can see that she has the requisite qualifications in human resource management. She has a Higher Diploma, an MBA in Human Resource Management and a degree in Anthropology. This is wonderful because she has the qualifications to go into the management of human resources at the Public Service Commission.

Secondly, that lady has undergone extensive high-level professional training, including the Strategic Leadership Development Programme at the Kenya School of Government. I think this is an asset. You know, the Kenya School of Government, at the highest levels of training, actually equips public servants with very good modern strategic management skills that can take Government organisations forward. Therefore, she has also specialised in project management at RIPA International in London. You know the people who have been to London, you understand? Yes. I do not want to go beyond that.

Ms Mutua possesses exceptional institutional knowledge, having climbed the ranks in a vast career within the State Department for Public Service. Ms Flora has actually worked in the State Department for Public Service and, therefore, understands the Public Service, where she currently serves as the Director of Management Consultancy Services. Actually, that lady currently works there. She is a staff member there, and therefore it is good. This is good for this country. For people who have worked in institutions, and when higher-level positions arise, I think it is good to give them those positions because they bring history, skills and knowledge of the organisation. Therefore, I think she is fit for that job.

Her professional expertise is further demonstrated by her published technical works, which include a workload analysis for the Kenya Electricity Generating Company (KenGen) and a skills audit for the Nakuru County Assembly. Published works. You know what published works means? Yes, published works. She has done a publication.

To modernise public service delivery and reduce operational costs, the nominee intends to drive the integration of technology and artificial intelligence to build an efficient, hybrid, decentralised service system. Quite current, quite in sync with technology, quite available to help to energise the organisation.

As she told the Committee, she plans to champion targeted recruitment drives to explicitly enhance the fair representation of women, persons with disabilities and marginalised

Thank you, Seconder. I was part and parcel of the panel that dealt with that process. (Question proposed)

I see Hon. Mishi Mkoko’s hand is up.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I stand to support the nomination of Madam Flora Mutua as a member of the Public Service Commission.

At the outset, I appreciate His Excellency the President, Dr William Samoei Ruto, for putting into consideration the nomination of women and include them in decision-making processes. I thank him so much for doing so. That shows that we are progressing in ensuring that we are balancing gender in various positions in this country.

I have perused the Report of the Departmental Committee of Labour and found that Madam Flora is academically suitable for this position. She holds a Master's Degree in Business

There is a point of order from Hon. Martha. We shall return to you. What is out of order, Hon. Martha?

I am sorry, Hon. Temporary Speaker. We are a House of record. I am a bit confused. I thought the Motion we are debating concerns a lady. The Member for Likoni, my sister, has been referring to a “he” throughout. Is it a man or a woman?

No, I have said, “Madam Flora Mutua.”

Take your seat.

Right at the beginning, I referred to the nominee as Madam Flora Mutua. I know that she is a lady. In fact, I know her personally. I have interacted with her in other engagements. I know her very well.

Please, refer to her as “she.” Proceed.

Sometimes it is just a slip of tongue.

It is okay, that is allowed.

I said from the beginning that Madam Flora Mutua has the capability and academic qualifications to hold that position. I have just one request to make. The Public Service Commission is responsible for recruitment and we frequently see job vacancies being advertised. My request is for them to ensure that whenever they conduct recruitment, they ensure that those who are hired represent the face of Kenya. They must employ with equity in mind and consider affirmative action groups, including women, the youth, and persons with disabilities. I support.

Very well, Hon. Mboko, you have been quite clear about your support for that candidate. Let us hear from Hon. Caroli Omondi. I can see you have keyed in.

Next Order.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move the following Motion:

THAT, taking into consideration the findings of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security in its Report on the Approval Hearing of a Nominee for Appointment as Chairperson of the Independent Policing Oversight Authority, laid on the Table of the House on Tuesday, 18th August 2026, and pursuant to the provisions of Article 250(2)(b) of the Constitution and sections 3 and 8 of the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Act (Cap. 7F), this House approves the appointment of Dr Duncan Oburu Ojwang as the Chairperson of the Independent Policing Oversight Authority. Hon. Temporary Speaker, you did communicate to the House on Thursday, 30th July 2026, a Message from the President to the House indicating the nomination of this person for appointment as Chairman of the Independent Policing Oversight Authority (IPOA), subject to the approval by the National Assembly. Subsequently, the Message from the President contained the nominee's curriculum vitae, which was referred to the Committee to undertake the approval hearing in accordance with the aforementioned section and the Standing Orders.

Pursuant to Article 118 of the Constitution, Sections 6(3) and (4) of the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Act and Standing Order 45(3) of the National Assembly, the Clerk of the National Assembly notified the nominee of the approval hearing and advertised the nomination in the local dailies on Friday, 31st July 2026, inviting the public to submit memoranda by way of written statements on oath or affidavits on the suitability of the nominee. By the time of the approval hearing, the Committee had not received any memoranda objecting to the appointment of the candidate.

On 12th August 2026, the nominee appeared before the Committee for an approval hearing, during which the Committee considered his suitability based on the criteria set out in Section 7 of the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Act as well as per the Constitution and statutory requirements relating to the Office of the Chairman of IPOA. It is clearly stated that for one to be the Chairman of IPOA, one must qualify to be appointed as a Judge of the High Court, and there are constitutional qualifications requirements to be fulfilled for one to be appointed to the said office.

The Committee examined the nominee's academic credentials, relevant professional training, work experience, knowledge of sectoral issues and personal integrity in accordance with Sections 6, 7 and 8 of the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Act. During the approval hearing, the Committee considered the nominee's duly filled questionnaire, curriculum vitae, academic credentials, professional training and experience, personal integrity and background reports from relevant authorities, which were submitted to the Committee

Hon. Kapondi.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, there is no doubt that the said Dr Duncan Oburu Ojwang is a distinguished scholar. He is an academic, a man of integrity, and he has the necessary experience. It is clear that he has all the requisite requirements for appointment to that office.

The Independent Policing Oversight Authority is a very critical institution in this country. As we head to the general elections, it is important that we have a substantive chair that would rein in and effectively oversee the conduct of police officers. This is because some could become overzealous as we approach the elections. This Duncan, as he appeared before the Committee, there is no doubt that he fits the bill. He has all that is required to push the work of oversight in IPOA into what is required. Therefore, without much ado, because my Chair has said it all in terms of the qualities that Dr Duncan has, I urge the House, without any reservation, to give approval to this distinguished son from the lake.

With those very few remarks, I second.

Very well, Hon. Members. (Question proposed) I think Hon. Caroli Omondi was first on this one.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I have been struggling to go through the Report to have a clear understanding of the qualifications of the gentleman being proposed for appointment as Chairperson of IPOA. I have looked at the Report and I must confess that I do not have the benefit of accessing the full academic qualifications. However, I noticed certain things on paragraph 56 of page 21 of the Report of the Committee.

The gentleman, Duncan Ojwang, graduated in 2006 with a Bachelor of Arts degree from Indiana University. Two years later, in 2008, he graduated with a Juris Doctor (JD) from Southern Illinois University. It is an equivalent of a Bachelor of Law. That is a two-year period. The programme is normally a three-year full-time programme even within the United States of America (USA) system where JD is allowed. This was a creation of the University of Chicago in the early 19th century.

I am curious and would have loved the Committee to explain to us how this was achieved within two years instead of the normal three years. I suspect the gentleman has not been able to access the Kenya School of Law (KSL) because of this situation. The KSL requires a minimum of a three-year degree programme, without which you cannot join the KSL and qualify to be an advocate of the High Court of Kenya. Therefore, the Report is not helping this House to understand whether that gentleman is eminently qualified for the position to which he is being proposed.

If you go further, it is stated that that gentleman graduated with a master’s degree from Indiana University in 2011. He then obtained a PhD from the University of Arizona in 2013. Again, in a record two years. I have not heard of him as one of the intellectual heavyweights like the late Hastings William Okoth Ogendo, Prof Ojwang’ or other intellectual heavyweights. However, a degree and a PhD in two years is something for which the Committee should have provided us with more material to try and understand what kind of system this was. Therefore, I do not think we, as a House, should proceed until material evidence is provided pertaining to this gentleman’s academic qualifications that we can digest and make informed decisions.

Further, the qualifications for the Chairperson of IPOA is like those of a High Court judge. One of those important qualifications is impartiality. Impartiality is not just a function of what you are doing in a particular case. It is a test of what you can ask a common bystander in the streets. What would a reasonable bystander say if you asked whether Caroli Omondi is partisan in his politics? This gentleman participated in the National Dialogue Committee

On a point of order.

Order, Hon. Caroli Omondi. There is a point of order. Just follow the rules of the House while debating.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, you may not have heard what Hon. Caroli Omondi has said about NADCO. He has said that the nominee participated in the NADCO fiasco. I was a Co-chair of NADCO together with an eminent Kenyan, former Vice-President of the Republic of Kenya, Hon. Kalonzo Musyoka. We co- chaired the NADCO Committee which was formed pursuant to an agreement between the Kenya Kwanza Alliance Coalition and the Azimio la Umoja-One Kenya Coalition Party. We approved the Report through a Motion in this House.

Hon. Caroli Omondi says that the NADCO fiasco approved many illegalities without substantiation. That is not only unfair to Hon. Kalonzo Musyoka, myself, and the other 10 Members of the NADCO, but also to this House. He is imputing improper motive on the House. Hon. Caroli Omondi must be ruled to be completely out of order for referring to the NADCO Report as a fiasco. However, he is entitled to his opinion, one of which is that any Luo other than himself does not warrant appointment to serve Kenyans in such a position. That is why he has a problem with John Mbadi. He will also have a problem with Duncan. (Hon. Caroli Omondi spoke off the record)

Order, Hon. Caroli. You will get a chance to contribute.

Luos are Kenyans, just like any other Kenyans. They must be given an opportunity to serve the Republic of Kenya.

He is on a point of order, Hon. Wanjala. Resume your seat.

Proceed, Leader of Majority Party.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I urge you to protect our sons and daughters from Luo Nyanza from Hon. Caroli Omondi, who has a penchant for opposing and belittling every Luo leader who is appointed to a senior position.

Hon. Wanjala, you are out of order. He is on a point of order.

I am on a point of order, Hon. Wanjala.

Take your seat. Proceed, Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I urge you to protect our sons and daughters from the Luo nation who are appointed to positions, like Cabinet Secretary John Mbadi and this nominee, whose approval as Chairperson of IPOA we are seeking. This is a very important job for Dr Duncan Ojwang.

Hon. Caroli Omondi is completely out of order to impute improper motive on the House following the passage of the NADCO Report. He is imputing improper motive on all Members, including Hon. Kalonzo Musyoka, a former Vice President of this country, a great Kenyan who has served this country for many years. Hon. Kalonzo Musyoka is a Senior Counsel, unlike Hon. Caroli. You cannot impute improper motive on a Senior Counsel at the level of Hon. Kalonzo Musyoka. You are claiming that he presided over illegalities. I will contribute later. I will address the other untrue issues that Hon. Caroli Omondi raised earlier.

Very well. Hon. Caroli, you may proceed. Let us try as much as possible to not deviate to other matters. You were doing very well. I was following your contribution. I want to hear what you have to say.

Proceed, Hon. Omondi.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Allow Hon. Caroli to proceed. Proceed, Hon. Caroli. (Hon. Raphael Wanjala spoke off the record) Give Hon. Caroli the microphone.

No. On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. You seem to know what I want to raise.

Hon. Wanjala.

Yes, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Caroli, take your seat.

No, you must be orderly.

Hon. Wanjala, you are out of order. Take your seat. Hon. Caroli Omondi, proceed with your contribution.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, at some point, I had to close my ears because I cannot take these long lectures. The English have a word called “windbag”, which describes someone who talks for too long without making sense or making a serious contribution. I had to close my ears because I was tired of repeated windbags in this House.

Anyway, let me proceed and explain why I am talking about impartiality. One of the qualifications under our Constitution for someone to be appointed as a judge is that they must be impartial. That test is the perception that members of the public have over one. Let me ask a question. If today the families of Cecil Ouma, who was shot dead on 30th June 2026 in the vehicle of Principal Secretary Fikirini Jacobs, or the family of Shadrack Onyango, who was shot dead on 19th May 2026 at Busia Police Station, or the family of Frederick Odhiambo, who was also shot dead on the same day by police, or the family of Dennis Omondi, who was shot dead on 4th May 2026 or Evans Otieno, who was shot dead on 23rd June 2026, or Michael Oloo, who was shot dead on 23rd June 2026, or Eric Otieno, who has been missing since July, or Albert Ojwang’ whose case is still pending, were asked if they have faith that Mr Duncan Ojwang’ can impartially investigate the cases surrounding the deaths, disappearances, or maiming of their family members, when this gentleman has been intimately associated with the Kenya Kwanza administration, their answer will be an emphatic no! I can go on and on. I have a long list of young people from the Luo community who were abducted, are missing, maimed or killed. If you ask their families, they will not believe so.

We can go further. History is being repeated here. During Moi’s regime...

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

There is a point of order. (Hon. Raphael Wanjala spoke off the record) Be very patient and orderly. This is a House of rules and order. This is not Budalangi. Proceed, Chair.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The subject of discussion here is a candidate for appointment as the Chair of IPOA. It has nothing to do with missing persons, abduction and the rest. Therefore, I kindly ask for your intervention that we discuss the subject before the House, which is the appointment of the Chairman of IPOA.

Very well. Hon. Caroli, proceed but adhere to the rules of relevance and confine yourself to the debate.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, the rules of relevance are that we have to determine the impartiality of the candidate. I have asked a simple question. A reasonable bystander or a member of a family that has been victimized, brutalized, murdered, maimed or renditioned by the police would not have faith in him. That is the concern. Therefore, it is part of the debate we should have in this House. We should even go further and look at the history of human rights abuses in this country. During the time of President Moi…

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Order. Take your seat. There is a point of order from the Hon. Member from Nyakach. Proceed.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I concur with the point of order which was raised by my Chair because the issue for determination is the

Very well, Hon. Aduma Owuor. Chair.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, it is on record that the candidate is an expert in human rights issues, which I am sure in the context of even what Hon. Caroli is trying to insinuate, is proper for the same position. He did not listen, interview, or interrogate the candidate. The Committee of 15 Members did so. We know them and they represent every part of this country. Without doubt, this is the right candidate for the said job. The issue of the great…

Order, Chair. You will have the entire privilege to reply. So, take your seat.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Let me hear the point of order from the Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, mine is a reminder that I rose under Standing Order 87 (3) and (4) on imputing improper motive. I indicated as much. Hon. Caroli says that he closed his ears. You can even close your mouth, your nostrils and your eyes, but I am a stickler to the rules and procedures of this House. When any Hon. Member imputes improper motive on the person of a former Member of this House, like the Hon. Kalonzo Musyoka, the Co-Chair of NADCO, myself as a Co-Chair of NADCO or the eight other Members of Parliament, including Hon. Senators like Senator Okong'o Mogeni, who is a Senior Counsel, I have a duty to protect those Members. I will protect them whether Hon. Caroli closes his ears, his nostrils, his mouth or his eyes. I do not care.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I must beseech you, in your position as the protector of the dignity of sitting and former Hon. Members of this House, to protect them from the vulgarities that you hear from Hon. Caroli Omondi. He has indicated that this nominee was involved in what he described as a NADCO fiasco. He further said that the NADCO Report had illegalities and yet that Report was passed by this House. I have just confirmed from the Hansard that Hon. Caroli Omondi supported the NADCO Report in this House, and passed it as a Hon. Member of this House. He cannot stand in his place and impute improper motive on all the other 348 Hon. Members, because suddenly, he is purporting to have become more intelligent than even Senior Counsels like Hon. Kalonzo Musyoka, Senior Counsel Okong’o Mogeni, the Senators and all the other eminent men and women who served this country through the NADCO Committee.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I want to beseech that Hon. Caroli Omondi either withdraws that reference to NADCO as a fiasco and the vulgarities that he used to described the on-goings within NADCO or you take appropriate action against him.

Very well. Hon. Caroli, just take your seat. This is a House of rules and order. I refer to Standing Order 87, which you can also refer to from where you are. It says:

It shall be out of order to introduce an argument or any other specific question upon which the House has taken a decision during the same session or earlier,

Let us be a little factual. I am glad you read it out loud so that the entire country could hear you. In this House, I have freedom of speech that is guaranteed by the Constitution and by our Standing Orders. I have freedom of my opinion. The word ‘fiasco’’ implies that something has failed. So, when I say that the NADCO Report was a failure, that is my opinion. You cannot take it away from me. It is my opinion and it is part of my freedom of speech in this House under the House rules, under the Parliamentary Powers and Privileges, and under our Standing Orders. You can have a different opinion from mine. What is offensive about saying something has failed? What aspect of the NADCO Report has been implemented in the first place?

The NADCO Report recommends the establishment of the Office of the Leader of the Opposition. That is unconstitutional because our Constitution recognizes the minority and majority sides in the House. There is no room for Leader of the Opposition. Therefore, that is an illegality.

Order. Hon. Caroli, proceed with what you are saying. You are now going into other debates that were not part of this, and you are actually consuming your time.

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Let me proceed. As I was saying, in the history of this country, there was a time when the Luo people were put in charge of the police and security sector with a sole objective.

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Hon. Caroli, take your seat. Yes, Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, we are a House of rules and procedures, and there is a reason for that. You did advise Hon. Caroli Omondi to apologize and move on. He now makes it worse by saying that describing an article as a fiasco is his opinion. So, I dare ask: If I describe him as overly arrogant and stupid, would I be saying that it is my opinion and make it acceptable? It would not because it is abusive and offensive language under our Standing Orders.

You had given very proper directives to Hon. Caroli Omondi. He cannot now stand in his place and say that what he said was his opinion. What if, tomorrow, I come here and describe a Member as stupid or illiterate? A fiasco is a total embarrassment, failure or disaster. That is a Report of this House. We cannot describe it as a total embarrassment, failure or disaster, presided over by 348 of us. In his opinion, he is the most intelligent and the only one who knows and yet, he voted for that Report.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, you have now heard him saying, “kwenda huko.” That is a high level of immaturity. I am begging him to conduct himself as a grown-up man and as a Member of this House. That is why I said it can be my opinion that he is stupid, but I cannot use that language here. I can say it out there at rallies and at funerals, but not on the Floor of

Very well. Hon. Martha, is it on the same? (Hon. Martha Wangari spoke off the record)

Yes, he is done. He has wasted his time, but I think he is also very well advised. He is a very good legislator. If he stuck to his notes, he would be smart.

Proceed, Hon. Martha.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I rise to support the Committee’s Report. I know the Chairperson will address some of the issues raised on suitability. They have done a lot of work on this matter. I see from the Report that they have gone through the qualifications and found them fit to come to the Floor, but allow me to speak not only about the candidates for IPOA, but also about its mandate.

This nomination for appointment has come at a very crucial time in our political landscape. I looked at the IPOA website. It has some live updates on how many cases have actually been filed with IPOA. About 35,000 complaints have so far been filed against several police officers. That tells you that there is a serious problem. Out of the 35,000 complaints, about 5,000 have been investigated. So, that tells you that they have investigated about 15 per cent. The number of convictions is 47, which is quite a small number, while the number that is pending after being referred to the DPP is about 800.

I am citing these statistics so that we also appreciate the work that is being done. We also appreciate that the elections, and where we are headed to as a country, is very worrying. Political intolerance is getting to an all-time high not just against civilians, but also against police officers.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, the madness and attacks that occurred in Homa Bay County left one police officer dead. The Independent Policing Oversight Authority must also work with the Ministry and the Inspector-General of Police, so that we protect not only civilians, but also police officers. They were not voting. They were there to maintain peace, but they were caught up in the crossfire.

During the Ol Kalou by-election, there was a situation in my constituency, in Pembroke area. Two vehicles were attacked by masked men. As a country, we must get to a point where we ask ourselves: “If it is not the police officers who are lobbing tear gas canisters and have guns, why do civilians have tear gas canisters and guns?” The people of Shokereria area in my constituency were brutalized for no reason because we did not have a by-election. Their only mistake was being neighbours to Ol Kalou Constituency. Even today, they are still being threatened with statements like: “You are the ones who recorded that video and the first ones on site.”

As we approve the appointment of the Chairperson of IPOA, there is a bigger issue. As we head to the general elections, IPOA has a bigger mandate because the situation is getting worse. We must see more convictions. If you are a police officer and your gun is used by a goon or someone who is not licensed, there should be consequences. If you are a police officer and you have been assigned tear gas canisters, how do they get into the hands of civilians? We must see consequences being meted out. Otherwise, it will become business as usual.

As a woman in politics, I am aware that violence makes more women to shy away from running for political office. They are threatened and intimidated. They are unable to have goons or the kind of organisations that we see being used for political violence. So, there is a bigger issue to address. The Committee that is in charge of this Motion oversees the Inspector-General

Hon. Aduma Owuor.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I also rise to support the Motion. Looking at the credentials of the nominee and the issues at hand, it is clear that this Motion has come at a critical time. There is need to look at both sides of the coin and what transpires around the country. Many of our police officers are victims of violence. I am aware that we lost one or two police officers in Homa Bay County, while civilians also suffered. The nominee is a very qualified Kenyan. Therefore, I support the approval of his nomination, so that he can discharge his duties diligently.

Thank you.

Very well, Hon. Aduma. Let us hear from Hon. Wanjala.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I will be very brief. I have read the credentials of that gentleman, but I have doubts about them. For you to be appointed as a Judge of the High Court or practise law in Kenya, you must go through the Kenya School of Law. The records do not show that, that gentleman went to the Kenya School of Law. How does that make him an equivalent to a Judge of the High Court when he did not go through the Kenya School of Law? He has not even practised law in Kenya. We committed this matter to the wrong Committee. It was supposed to be considered by the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs, so that they could understand these issues.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

You do not need to rise on a point of order. The Chairman will have enough time to reply. What is it, Hon. Aduma?

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I want to be clear to my colleague that I am an Advocate of the High Court of about three decades standing. I passed through the Council of Legal Education at the Kenya School of Law. I want to inform my colleague that it is not mandatory to be at the School of Law, but the Council has got the obligation to clear you. So, we have had very many prominent lawyers who never went through formal university education and yet, they are prominent lawyers. For example, Paul Muite. We also have Timan Njugi. We had the late Mzee Joshua Nyamori too. Those are very prominent lawyers in this country. So, the discretion is within.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, if you recall, in the past, you saw members of the Queen's Counsel coming to represent clients' counsel. You have also seen members of the American Bar Association coming over and getting the right of audience in Kenya. So, we went through this Report and I think the candidate was actually granted permission because he is a long- standing scholar.

On a point of information, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

No, you are out of order! You had finished.

Let me just say…

Clerks-at-the-Table, switch off that mic! (Hon. Raphael Wanjala spoke off the record) Order, Hon. Wanjala! You had exhausted your time to speak and I am disappointed a little bit with the Table. Hon. Wanjala had submitted and finished. The point of information

Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this chance to contribute. At the outset, the Independent Policing Oversight Authority (IPOA) is a very critical institution to our country, especially when it comes to oversight of the security organs. It is important to understand why there should be a lot of seriousness when it comes to security matters in this country.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, what we call Kenya is just the boundaries. It is just about the landmass of Kenya. That is what we call the country of Kenya. What we call the Republic of Kenya came after independence, that is, self-governance. However, there are some other critical areas we must always be very keen about, one being the nation. Even as we talk geographically about a country called Kenya, it is also important for us to be a nation called Kenya. A nation cannot be called a nation when there is no homogeneity of the people in how they look at things, and how they share culture and values so that we are one united country called Kenya. I say this as I build up on the last two. The other one is called the Government of Kenya and the last one is the State of Kenya.

Over time, we have clearly seen that there is a mishap and a breakdown in the last two, especially when it comes to the security of the people of Kenya. The Government, the State machinery, and the State institutions are failing the people of Kenya. The kind of anarchy we are seeing in political gatherings, especially the last one in Homa Bay, is unpalatable. No Kenyan can continue to condone that.

There are three things we must always have in mind for a modern State to function properly. One of them is the rule of law that requires that everyone and every person obeys the law that is enforced through the Judiciary. The second one is accountability through democracy. We come here to make laws as representatives of the people because we are doing it on behalf of the people. Modern State institutions are the last one.

Order. There is a point of order from Hon. Kapondi. What is the point of order?

Going by the mood of the House, would the Mover be called upon to reply? More or less, there is already a mood in the House.

Hon. Kapondi, we have heard you. However, allow Hon. Ndindi Nyoro to finish. What is your point of order, Leader?

I am also waiting to contribute. I do not know the mood Hon. Kapondi is reading. He must realise that he is interrupting the newest party leader in the country. He must respect party leaders. He might be his party leader. He should allow Hon. Ndindi Nyoro, the party leader of his party whose name I cannot remember, to finish his very good contribution. He had a very good contribution. We must protect the rights of Hon. Ndindi Nyoro to speak in this House. I know he is being stopped from speaking elsewhere, but we must protect him in this House. He must speak.

Hon. Ndindi, proceed.

Before I continue and, with all due respect to the Member of Parliament for Kikuyu, the other day, I said that I am willing to accept all the congratulatory messages from all Kenyans. However, you must leave the wheelbarrow party first. You must denounce it so that Kenyans can accept your congratulatory messages. You must first leave a government that is offering insecurity to the people. We now have a

Order! Order! Order!

It is the reason I want to say that any Member of Parliament….

I can see this is attracting a lot of attention, but I really want to advise Hon. Ndindi, party leader, that he is doing very well. You are a good debater, but you are getting distracted and falling into the trap of distraction. What is your point of order, Hon. Member? Give her the microphone.

Hon. Ndindi Nyoro has just walked in. Maybe, he does not know what we are discussing. We are not discussing Homa Bay. The discussion that is ongoing has nothing to do with Homa Bay. I kindly request you to desist. Table something here and we will discuss Homa Bay if you want to discuss it. You cannot just speak about insecurity in Homa Bay. To start with, you were not even there.

What are you telling the House here? Homa Bay is a peaceful county. We are neighbours with Homa Bay. We have never had such events until your brothers from the other side of ‘I-do- not-know-where’ came and brought their goons there. Leave Homa Bay out of this discussion.

Hon. Ndindi, proceed with your discussion.

You are a very good Speaker. It is very clear to the citizens of Kenya who elected Hon. Fatuma that, even beyond knowing the rules of this House, it seems she actually never even attended orientation. She would have known that I am at liberty to debate the way I want as long as I am within the confines of the debate. Even if Members of Parliament have no content to contribute, it is important that they, at the very least, attend orientation so that they do not embarrass themselves before the people of Kenya who are watching.

The second thing that I want to finish with is that there are three important things for a modern State to function effectively. The first is the rule of law. The second is accountability through democracy.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, third is strong institutions of the State. The reason I am saying this is that all Kenyans try to live very harmoniously. We are a good nation, especially when we politicians are not exploiting the systems that exist. What is failing miserably in this country is the guarantee that the people of Kenya should have when it comes to the Government offering security, which is the basic function of Government to the people of Kenya. The State has failed Kenyans.

I hope the Independent Policing Oversight Authority (IPOA) will step up its course so that we continue to, especially, give Kenyans security as they interact with each other and as they attend meetings. The Government must stop meting violence on the Kenyan people and instead, protect and honour them.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I submit.

Very well. Leader of the Majority Party, proceed.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, allow me to begin by supporting this Motion for the approval of Dr Duncan Oburu Ojwang to IPOA, pursuant to the Public Appointments (Parliamentary Approval) Act. Anyone who has taken time to read this Report and the vetting that this gentleman went through will bear me witness that Dr Duncan Ojwang warrants this job. I have listened to some of our colleagues, including the Member for Kiharu, Hon. Ndindi Nyoro and Hon. Caroli Omondi, to see whether they will raise issues concerning the suitability or otherwise of Dr Duncan Ojwang, but all I have heard

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker.

Order, Leader of the Majority Party. Whenever you want to raise a point of order, please state that it is a point of order. Do not simply stand and interrupt. Let us give you a chance. What is it? Is it a point of order?

I wish to request my brother, Hon. Ichung’wah, to desist from referring to me. I do not want to bring these political issues into the House. Let them deal with their matters as the failed wheelbarrow Government of UDA. Let them leave us alone as the Opposition. We know how to deal with our matters. I do not want this characterisation, which may send inaccurate signals to the people of Kenya. I know how to deal with my matters; I will deal with them. I do not need any kind of protection from the Members of this House, especially those who still believe in the failed Government of UDA.

We have heard you. The Leader of the Majority Party.

That was not a point of order, Hon Temporary Speaker. So, I have no time to respond to it. However, I must say what I have to say and I do not need anybody's guidance to say what I have to say. I have the freedom of speech and reference.

Hon. Ndindi Nyoro referred to me when he was speaking. I did not have feelings of anger. So, I beseech him to relax and allow me to have my say. I am not King Herod. I do not have the Herod spirit in me. I want to encourage young leaders because they are the future of our country. We must not sit in our leadership places believing that we are the greatest of all times; what the younger ones call the “GOAT”.

I appreciate every leader in their place, including the Member for Kiharu. I appreciate him and I must protect his rights, just like I will protect the rights of the Member for Magarini, Mwalimu Harrison Kombe or the Chairperson of the Implementation Committee, the Member for Budalang'i. I must protect them.

Proceed in English.

The Member for Kiharu is my good friend. So, I will leave it to rest. What he has told me in vernacular; I have to leave it to rest. However, I have to say that when we accuse others of failing, we should also look inward. When I say that the Government has failed and I am still serving that Government… When I say the Wheelbarrow Party has failed and encourage other Members to leave the Wheelbarrow Party and yet I am still a Member of that Wheelbarrow Party… If you are man enough, in such a case, you will know what you are supposed to do. Baba showed us what to do. When he was the Member for Langata, he showed us what to do. If you do not believe in a particular political party, you simply leave that party and go back to your constituents to seek a new mandate from them.

You cannot have your cake and eat it. That is being dishonest. It is actually against Chapter 6 of the Constitution. You cannot continue enjoying the powers and privileges of a political party as a Member and claim that, that party has failed just because you want to speak to the gallery. Then you want to gag me not to tell people who you are. I will tell the world who you are and you will be at liberty to tell the world who I am. So, the Member should relax.

Chairman, lastly, there were many grey areas that seemed to emerge. Could we have any clarifications before I put the question? Chairman! You really wanted to speak to this. Do you have any clarifications?

Yes, I can do it during the reply.

Proceed.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. First and foremost, I want to commend the good discussion by the House, including those who have supported and those who, probably, have a different view and opinion. It is their democracy, but as I indicated from the Report and observations of the Committee, which unanimously approved the candidate, I want, for the record, to make it clear that, regarding the issue of the certificate or, of course, the candidate being an Advocate of the High Court, it was an issue that we were very keen to address. We had the panel write to the Inspector-General, and we had a letter making a clarification on the same: that it is not a must that you must be a practising lawyer or an Advocate of the High Court in this matter.

There are several channels or pathways to that effect. One, of course, is being an Advocate of the High Court, and the other one is being an academic. We had established, in our Report, that our candidate is an academic and a researcher in law. For the avoidance of doubt, and for the doubting Thomases, I want to remind the House that the candidate was a dean and a senior lecturer at the University of Nairobi. There is no way, as we know, that the University of Nairobi, which is a centre of excellence, would have appointed him dean if there were any doubts about his qualifications.

Very well. Very nice debate. These are the times when you must arm yourself with not only content, but also research and be stable in your emotions because you have to argue your point of view and have the resilience. I like what is currently going on between Hon. Ndindi and the Leader of the Majority Party because it is just debate. Like the Speaker would put it, canter and banter will arise, but hold your emotions and debate well. (Question put and agreed to) Next Order.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 2 and substituting therefor the following new clause— “2. The Investment Promotion Act is amended by deleting the heading

This part addresses registration of foreign investments. The Committee proposes deletion of Clause 2, which was providing for accreditation of facilitators for foreign investors. There was an introduction of facilitators for any foreign investors, which the Committee felt that it would introduce a lot of corruption and confusion.

The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari): Maybe just to guide you, Chairperson, so that we move with speed: Hon. Members, kindly furnish yourselves with the Supplementary Order Paper where the amendments are listed. It is so that the Mover, does not have to re-read the amendments. You just say: “As per the Order Paper”, and give your justification. (Question of the amendment proposed) If you intend to speak, then press the intervention button. I do not see any person.

(Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to) (Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to) (Clause 2 as amended agreed to) Clause 3 The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari): Mover.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, the Bill be amended by deleting Clause 3. The deletion on Section 3 of the Investment Promotion Act (Cap. 485) does away with the provision requiring application for investment certificates by local investors. Additionally, the provision referred to roles of facilitators that are not provided for in the Bill. (Question of the amendment proposed) (Question, that the words to be left

out be left out, put and agreed to) (Clause 3 deleted)

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 4 of the Bill be amended—

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. The word “direct” was being introduced into the Bill and yet, it had not been defined. So, removing that word and leaving just 'foreign investment', which is similar to what is defined, gives uniformity to the Bill.

(Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to) (Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to) (Clause 4 as amended agreed to) Clause 5 The Temporary Chairlady (Martha Wangari): Mover.

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 5 of the Bill be amended—

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move: THAT, Clause 8 of the Bill be amended—