Robert Pukose

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I support the Petition by Hon. Bartoo about the Settlement Fund Trustees (SFTs). This matter is not limited to 20th June 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 3 Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)the well-connected, who were in Government at that time....

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Speaker, the results of the Division on the Second Reading of the Finance Bill, 2024 are: Ayes – 204 Noes – 115 Abstention – Nil (Hon. Millie Odhiambo–Mabona spoke off the record)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Yes, Hon. Speaker. I was consulting with the Chair about the retreat to Kisumu, which they had scheduled for this week and yet, we have the Finance Bill. I want to assure the Member that we can give the response in two weeks. RESPONSES...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Speaker, I beg to lay the following Paper on the Table of the House: Report of the Departmental Committee on Health on the inquiry into alleged fraudulent payments of medical claims and capitation to health facilities by the National Health Insurance Fund.

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) I beg to give notice of the following Motion: THAT, this House adopts the Report of the Departmental Committee on Health on the inquiry into alleged fraudulent payments of medical claims and capitation to health facilities by the NHIF, laid on the Table of...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I request that you give us two weeks to respond to the request for statement by Hon. Kibagendi.

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I join my colleagues to welcome Anderson High School from Endebess. It is a school at the border of Kenya and Uganda. This school is the best school in Endebess and number four within Trans Nzoia County in the last...

Hon. Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table: Reports of the Departmental Committee on Health on:

Hon (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Point of Order. Hon. Deputy Speaker Yes, what is your point of order Hon. Pukose? Hon (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Most Members had contributed on this and remember we were here until late in the evening. May I ask that the Mover be...

Hon. Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Thank you, Hon. Deputy Speaker. I beg to lay the following Papers on the Table: Reports of the Departmental Committee on Health on:

Hon (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Point of Order. Hon. Deputy Speaker Yes, what is your point of order Hon. Pukose? Hon (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Most Members had contributed on this and remember we were here until late in the evening. May I ask that the Mover be...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to second that this House resolves to exempt the business appearing as Orders No.15 and 16 in today’s Order Paper from the provisions of Standing Order 40 (3) , being a Wednesday Morning, a day allocated for Business not...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Deputy Speaker, I beg to second that this House resolves to exempt the business appearing as Orders No.15 and 16 in today’s Order Paper from the provisions of Standing Order 40 (3) , being a Wednesday Morning, a day allocated for Business not...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. You remember the Speaker ordered that we do winnowing. I confirm that we did winnowing. For all Members that came, we carried out their amendments as agreed during the process. Therefore, the amendments that I will move are as...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) As you have ordered, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. (Question of the amendment proposed) (Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to) 4th June 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 31 Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)(Question, that the words to...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Yes. (Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to) (Clause 25 deleted) Clause 26 The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : Mover. Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) I want to see the amendment she has proposed because it is a new sub-clause. We have proposed to amend Clause 27 in (a) , (b) and (c) . In (a) , we are deleting the words “medicinal products” and substituting with the words...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) No, it is not. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : Hon. Nyikal.

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Her amendment is a new sub-clause. My amendment is changing the medical products for drugs. I do not know how we can proceed with that new sub-clause, so that both of them are in tandem with what we are proposing to do. The Temporary...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, that is right.

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, we have no objection to Hon. Mille's amendment. It is a good one. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : Okay. I will now put the Question. (Question, that the words to be inserted be inserted, put and agreed to) (Question,...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) I beg to move: THAT, Clause 28 of the Bill be amended—

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) We asked Hon. Millie to drop the amendment because the word “medicine” is no longer in use. We are using the words ‘health products and technologies.' Therefore, the issue of “herbal” does not exist in that manner. So, I ask her to drop it....

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. Hon. Nyikal, health products, and technologies include herbal and conventional medicines. We agreed in that meeting that we would have a Bill for traditional medical practitioners and herbal 4th June 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 38 Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Chairlady, should I move the whole clause or piecemeal in sub-clauses? The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : You will do the marginal note first on this. Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, she is still talking about herbal medicine, medicines, and drugs and yet, we had gone into health products and technologies. It will infringe on the whole Bill. I oppose the amendment. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : Thank you. (Question,...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Chairlady, I beg to move THAT, Clause 29 of the Bill be amended— Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Are you referring to “inserting the words Kenya immediately before the phrase essential”? The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : No. Clause 29 (c)...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) I do not understand why she is deleting. Can she explain? The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : Hon. Mayaka.

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Allow me to look at the Bill. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : Let us give the Chairman a moment. Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, clause 29 (9) reads that: “Any registration under this section, including the registration of...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) As I give and take, normally, after a period of five to seven years, a new technology comes into the market. If you think five years is too close, why not come in and agree to put it at seven years?

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) I agree to do a further amendment.

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. The amendment is okay and I agree with it. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : Okay. 4th June 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 46 Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)(Question, that the words to be inserted be inserted, put...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I support. The amendment is okay. (Question, that the words to be inserted be inserted, put and agreed to) 4th June 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 48 Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari): There is a proposed...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, the amendment is okay. (Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to) (Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to) The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari)...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Thank you, Hon. Deputy Chairlady. I beg to move: THAT, Clause 30 of the Bill be amended—

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Thank you, Hon. Deputy Chairlady. I beg to move: THAT, Clause 31 of the Bill be amended—

Hon. ((Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) I beg to move: THAT, Clause 32 of the Bill be amended by deleting sub-clause (1) and substituting therefor the following new sub-clause (1) — Hon. ((Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move THAT, Clause 32 of the Bill...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, we had agreed she drops ‘herbal medicine’.

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) We agreed with Hon. Millie that herbal medicine will be included in the Traditional Medical Practice Bill. I urge Hon. Mayaka to drop that amendment. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : Hon. Mayaka, kindly be on record.

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)What is your amendment?

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) For pharmacist, we say it is a registered pharmacist. For pharmaceutical technologist, we say enrolled pharmaceutical technologist. These are the terminologies that are used. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : Have you dropped your amendment, Hon. Mayaka?

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Are we inserting this word before the word “pharmacist”?

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) It is okay. There is no problem with that.

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I think this amendment was discussed. Hon. Nyikal will bear me witness that when you are substituting a certain drug, it is the doctor who knows. When you say that unless the patient or purchaser is informed and agrees, you are...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) When prescribing or changing medication, there could be a case of a patient who is in a coma. This can have legal implications. If a patient is in a coma and you change their medication, they might wake up and say that they did...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) I will read the whole context. It says: “A pharmacist shall not substitute a prescribed medicine with an interchangeable multi-source medicine if the person prescribing the medicine has written in his or her own hand on the prescription the words “no substitution” next to...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) I support that amendment. 4th June 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 60 Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari): Hon. ((Dr) Nyikal.

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, that brings in the pharmaceutical technologists as a whole. We have no objection to that. (Question, that the words to be inserted be inserted, put and agreed to) Clause 39 (5) The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : Sub-clause (5) ,...

4th June 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 63

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, on scheduled substances, I want to disagree. Those are scheduled substances which are controlled. They are supposed to be under a pharmacist, not a pharmaceutical technologist. It is different from the wholesale business. (Question, that the words to be inserted be...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, the stem of Clause 41 (1) (d) states thus: “41 (1) Subject to this Act, a person licensed under this Act to deal as a wholesaler dealer in scheduled substances may sell scheduled substances to:

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) If you look at the stem of the framing, subject to this Act, a person licensed under this Act to deal as a wholesaler in scheduled substances may sell scheduled substances. He is not selling scheduled substances to himself but to the pharmacist who...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) The amendment is okay, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : Thank you. (Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to) (Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) The amendment is okay, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. I support it. (Question, that the words to be inserted be inserted, put and agreed to) The import of this amendment is that there will be consequential renumbering because we have agreed to sub-clause (2) amendments. Clause...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Basically, this is to restrict dispensing scheduled substances to unauthorised persons. For the other part, it seeks to correct minor drafting errors. Registered midwives are included in the qualified healthcare professionals provided in the amended sub-clause. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : Did...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) I am not getting his worry. Please, explain what it is. Is it about the qualified healthcare professional here?

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Down there under the Clause, it says a qualified medical practitioner, subject to the following provisions, may issue a scheduled substance with therapeutic value. That substance shall be distinctly labelled with the name and address of the person by whom it is supplied or...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) To amend to Ksh1,000,000 from Ksh100,000 is okay. (Question, that the words to be left out be left out, put and agreed to) (Question, that the words to be inserted in place thereof be inserted, put and agreed to) (Clause 43 as amended agreed...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I request that Hon. Mayaka gives a further explanation on that amendment. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : Hon. Mayaka, kindly explain the amendment further.

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I agree with it because the Committee had proposed Ksh500,000, but Hon. Millie is proposing Ksh1 million. It is a question of figures. From her legal practice as a lawyer, she might be in a better position to suggest that we...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I can explain to her that this other new clause which we have introduced is to provide for the use of automatic machines in dispensing selected scheduled substances in an effort to leverage on technology. Therefore, the issue of that fine...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I have an amendment. Hon. Oluoch is proposing to delete the whole Clause 54. The Committee feels we can only make an amendment to sub-clause 3. I oppose the amendment. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) : Hon. Nyikal.

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, Clause 54 (1) says that the Authority, in the public interest, may prohibit any ingredient contained in therapeutic cosmetics by notice in the Gazette. We have people who apply discolouring ingredients that contain mercury on their skin. So, we need to...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA)

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I beg to move that the Committee do report to the House its consideration of the Kenya Drugs Authority Bill, (National Assembly Bill No. 54 of 2022) up to Clause 54 and its approval thereof with amendments and seeks leave to...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to move that the House do agree with the Committee in the said report. I also request Hon. Owen Baya to second the Motion for agreement with the report of the Committee of the whole House.

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Thank you, Hon. Speaker. If we refuse the list as it is, then the matter dies. The best thing for us as a House is to give the Committee the benefit of the doubt and hold them accountable. I do not think it will...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) First and foremost, thank you, Hon. Speaker, for letting this House honour our fallen heroes, the Chief of the Kenya Defence Forces, Gen. Ogolla, and the other nine officers who died in an aircraft in West Pokot. It was a sad day for our...

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Yes, Hon. Speaker. Two weeks will be okay. Thank you.

Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose (Endebess, UDA) Thank you very much, Hon. Speaker. I take this opportunity to welcome my colleagues from the Departmental Committee on Health from Zambia, who are led by Hon. Christopher. We had a very fruitful discussion in this Chamber in the morning about devolution and how...