David Ouma Ochieng'

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Sergeant-at-Arms, please, ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I order that the Bell be rung for a further five minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) Hon Members, when the Quorum Bell is...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, debate on this Bill was finalised. (Question put and agreed to) (The Bill was read a Second Time and committed to Committee of the whole House) THE PREVENTION OF LIVESTOCK AND PRODUCE THEFT BILL The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)(Question put and...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mnyazi, take it up with him and his Committee and ensure that you raise it again in the first week after we come back from recess. The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Kassim Tandaza, what is out of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Hon Members. (Question proposed) The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, is it the mood to put the Question?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security. Is there any Member from that Committee? (Hon. Protus Akujah stood up in his place) Is that Hon. Akujah? Did you hear the question?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Adagala.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Okay. Next Order. PROCEDURAL MOTION EXEMPTION OF CERTAIN BUSINESS FROM STANDING ORDER 40(3) The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Whip of the Majority Party.

Hon. Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Sergeant-at-Arms, please, ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I order that the Bell be rung for a further five minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) Hon Members, when the Quorum Bell is...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, debate on this Bill was finalised. (Question put and agreed to) (The Bill was read a Second Time and committed to Committee of the whole House) THE PREVENTION OF LIVESTOCK AND PRODUCE THEFT BILL The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)(Question put and...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mnyazi, take it up with him and his Committee and ensure that you raise it again in the first week after we come back from recess. The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Kassim Tandaza, what is out of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Hon Members. (Question proposed) The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, is it the mood to put the Question?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Security. Is there any Member from that Committee? (Hon. Protus Akujah stood up in his place) Is that Hon. Akujah? Did you hear the question?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Adagala.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Okay. Next Order. PROCEDURAL MOTION EXEMPTION OF CERTAIN BUSINESS FROM STANDING ORDER 40(3) The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Whip of the Majority Party.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next is Hon. Jayne Kihara followed by Hon. Mary Wamaua.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said. Hon. Members. Remember last week when the Cabinet Secretary for Education was here, the questions we sent him back with are the exact issues in this Motion, almost word for word. Hon. Mathenge, you were here last week and you had the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Wamaua.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Ikiara.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) That is okay. Proceed, Hon. Martin.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. The Member for Loima.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Member for Molo. 22nd April 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 27

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Omanyo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Wamuchomba.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Gachagua, this is a chance for follow-up questions on the matter of payment of invigilators, supervisors and examiners. It is not an open-ended chance. So, I would request that you ask a question related to that.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Member for Magarini.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Cabinet Secretary, we are all in this position. The Ministry knows that this will be a crisis and money will be found. Every single year, the Ministry leaves it pending, teachers cry, it becomes a crisis and thereafter you have to look...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Omboko, this was not a question in the manner you are saying. It was an issue that was raised in the plenary by the whole House. Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Lastly, let us have the Member for West Mugirango. Members, you will get a chance to ask your questions in the second round.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Member for Suba South.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next is Hon. Naomi Waqo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Mukunji.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Omboko, you know that that is quite unprocedural. You will have to come back. Our procedures require that when Cabinet Secretaries come, they first answer Questions that had been asked, then we proceed with supplementary questions. So, you will indulge us to deal...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Kombe.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Cabinet Secretary, most Members have raised similar questions, so I expect a short response. The Cabinet Secretary for Education (Mr Julius Ogamba) : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker and Members. I want to be very frank about this issue of school uniforms. It has...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Omboko, please, make it a minute so that we finish with this question.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. (Dr) Mutunga.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Cabinet Secretary, in summary, the Leader of the Majority Party is asking whether the Ministry has lost control of school heads and principals. Can you do anything about it? Write them down. Other questions will be asked on school uniforms. Members, please, the Cabinet...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Taitumu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mathenge.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Kimani Kuria, no. We cannot do this. This is spent. Before you sit down, I had hoped, because this is an area in which you are well versed, that this would be a perfect example where, for the first time, Parliament, not the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you, Hon. Mathenge. Member for Samburu, Hon. Pauline Lenguris, please, make it short so that we can have as many Members as we can.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Passaris.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Emaase, a minute. The Cabinet Secretary has seven questions to go. So, if you do not ask on this one, you can ask on the next. Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Emathe.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Members, I am just following the interventions as they are. I never skip anyone. Hon. Alice Ng’anga, go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mary Emaase said something very important. All of us know that every single year, exams are done and they are invigilated, supervised and marked. This has become a crisis every single year. Cabinet Secretary, I hope you got your answer back. The Cabinet...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Emaase, do you want to speak to this?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Cabinet Secretary, you have heard the questions. In your response, include whether this money that you said you do not have was budgeted for. I do not agree with the issue of the Supplementary Budget. Was this included in the main budget for the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Caroli, do you want to ask a follow-up question on this?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Let us have Hon. Kwenya, and then Hon Emathe.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I will have two more Members: Hon. Gisairo, the Member for Busia and the Member for Teso South.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) He has not been bashed by anybody. 22nd April 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 21

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Members, this matter ends there. Cabinet Secretary, take the rostrum again and give us a final decision on what is possible on uniforms, lunch, reams of paper, desks and punishment. It is not July anymore. The Cabinet Secretary for Education (Mr...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Let us have Hon. Mishi Mboko.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Cabinet Secretary, you have 14 days. We can get an answer by next Thursday and if you need the intervention of Parliament to make the National Treasury act, please, write to the Speaker so that this is expedited. The Cabinet Secretary for Education (Mr...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Ikiara.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) That is okay. Proceed, Hon. Martin.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. The Member for Loima.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Member for Molo. 22nd April 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 27

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Omanyo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Wamuchomba.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Gachagua, this is a chance for follow-up questions on the matter of payment of invigilators, supervisors and examiners. It is not an open-ended chance. So, I would request that you ask a question related to that.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Member for Magarini.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Cabinet Secretary, we are all in this position. The Ministry knows that this will be a crisis and money will be found. Every single year, the Ministry leaves it pending, teachers cry, it becomes a crisis and thereafter you have to look...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Omboko, this was not a question in the manner you are saying. It was an issue that was raised in the plenary by the whole House. Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Lastly, let us have the Member for West Mugirango. Members, you will get a chance to ask your questions in the second round.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Member for Suba South.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next is Hon. Naomi Waqo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Mukunji.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Omboko, you know that that is quite unprocedural. You will have to come back. Our procedures require that when Cabinet Secretaries come, they first answer Questions that had been asked, then we proceed with supplementary questions. So, you will indulge us to deal...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Kombe.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Cabinet Secretary, most Members have raised similar questions, so I expect a short response. The Cabinet Secretary for Education (Mr Julius Ogamba) : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker and Members. I want to be very frank about this issue of school uniforms. It has...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Omboko, please, make it a minute so that we finish with this question.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. (Dr) Mutunga.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Cabinet Secretary, in summary, the Leader of the Majority Party is asking whether the Ministry has lost control of school heads and principals. Can you do anything about it? Write them down. Other questions will be asked on school uniforms. Members, please, the Cabinet...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Taitumu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mathenge.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Kimani Kuria, no. We cannot do this. This is spent. Before you sit down, I had hoped, because this is an area in which you are well versed, that this would be a perfect example where, for the first time, Parliament, not the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you, Hon. Mathenge. Member for Samburu, Hon. Pauline Lenguris, please, make it short so that we can have as many Members as we can.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Passaris.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Emaase, a minute. The Cabinet Secretary has seven questions to go. So, if you do not ask on this one, you can ask on the next. Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Emathe.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Members, I am just following the interventions as they are. I never skip anyone. Hon. Alice Ng’anga, go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mary Emaase said something very important. All of us know that every single year, exams are done and they are invigilated, supervised and marked. This has become a crisis every single year. Cabinet Secretary, I hope you got your answer back. The Cabinet...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Emaase, do you want to speak to this?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Cabinet Secretary, you have heard the questions. In your response, include whether this money that you said you do not have was budgeted for. I do not agree with the issue of the Supplementary Budget. Was this included in the main budget for the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Caroli, do you want to ask a follow-up question on this?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Let us have Hon. Kwenya, and then Hon Emathe.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I will have two more Members: Hon. Gisairo, the Member for Busia and the Member for Teso South.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) He has not been bashed by anybody. 22nd April 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 21

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Members, this matter ends there. Cabinet Secretary, take the rostrum again and give us a final decision on what is possible on uniforms, lunch, reams of paper, desks and punishment. It is not July anymore. The Cabinet Secretary for Education (Mr...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Let us have Hon. Mishi Mboko.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Cabinet Secretary, you have 14 days. We can get an answer by next Thursday and if you need the intervention of Parliament to make the National Treasury act, please, write to the Speaker so that this is expedited. The Cabinet Secretary for Education (Mr...

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I must commend those concerned for taking swift action. Those measures should not lull us into a false sense of security because we do not know how long this whole affair in the Strait of...

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Hon. Caroli should record a statement with the police because he has so many facts about this case. Maybe he attacked Sen. Osotsi. Who knows? He seems to know everything about this attack. Maybe he is a person of interest in this matter. He cannot...

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Thank you so much, Hon. Speaker. Our Standing Orders require that principal secretaries in various departments respond to us. Therefore, any insinuation that Principal Secretary Raymond Omollo should not have signed the response is out of order. It could have been Omollo or anybody else....

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I must commend those concerned for taking swift action. Those measures should not lull us into a false sense of security because we do not know how long this whole affair in the Strait of...

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Hon. Caroli should record a statement with the police because he has so many facts about this case. Maybe he attacked Sen. Osotsi. Who knows? He seems to know everything about this attack. Maybe he is a person of interest in this matter. He cannot...

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Thank you so much, Hon. Speaker. Our Standing Orders require that principal secretaries in various departments respond to us. Therefore, any insinuation that Principal Secretary Raymond Omollo should not have signed the response is out of order. It could have been Omollo or anybody else....

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Thank you so much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I want to thank Hon. Jane Kagiri for this very important Bill. I will contribute on the Bill as a person who has done work in this area for a long time in international trade, where I advise...

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Hon. Temporary Speaker, this relates to the rules of origin embedded in trade agreements that we have signed. As mentioned earlier, countries such as India and China, bring in nearly complete products, repackage them in Uganda or Tanzania through transhipment, and then export them to...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) That said, I think it is time for the mover to reply. Hon. Gichimu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Leo Wa Muthende Njeru. 8th April 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 29

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Maungu, you just walked in. When did you count the Members present? Ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes. 8th April 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 38 The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Whip of the Minority Party, approach the Temporary Speaker. The...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Suba North, followed by the Member for Seme and then Hon. Mayaka in that order.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said. Hon. Mutunga, it is now your chance to contribute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Wandeto.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order. You know none of the Members here is in Kisumu, and none of them attacked Senator Osotsi. Why can you not be relevant to this matter? I sympathise with Hon. Osotsi like you, but if you want to discuss that, you can bring...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Malindi.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Yatta.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mayaka, followed by the Member for Malindi, then the Member for Marakwet West.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Shabbir.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)From my records, honourable

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) It is now the chance for… Is it Mr, Dr, or Professor Oundo?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Shakeel, please take your seat. You will contribute after Hon. Kimilu. You came to me because you did not have your card, and he had already put in his card. That is how it works. 8th April 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 26

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) They elevated Kenya Science and Kenya Polytechnic to university status. How can you protect this from also being inflated by all these things you are talking about?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order. You know, I allowed you to say what you said, even though it was irrelevant. But when you veer off course, you know I 8th April 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 27 The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)will not allow you. I allowed you...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Let us have Hon. Joshua Kimilu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Since you are an academician, before you go, having listened to the debate this afternoon, we had institutions called Kenya Science and Kenya Polytechnic. How do you guard against what happened to those two institutions, because they also specialised in their respective fields?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order. I do not mind giving you information. However, when a Member is on a roll, and you can clearly see it, and then you interrupt, it is not fair. Do you want to be informed by him?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Wandeto, next time someone has a point of information, it is courteous to allow them to inform you. Hon. Kimaiyo. (Hon. Joshua Kimilu spoke off the record) Order. There is a Member in this House called Hon. Kimaiyo, and this chance belongs to...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I have always wondered why Members leave the Chamber after they contribute. Who is supposed to make a decision on the business under consideration if you leave the Chamber? I have observed each Member who contributed to the Motion leaving the Chamber soon thereafter....

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Lekakeny, do you want to speak on this? I have not seen your card. (Hon. Julius Sunkuli spoke off the record) Okay, great. Then this is your chance, Hon. Nyikal.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, the decision on this matter will be made the next time it is in the Order Paper for obvious reasons.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Chepkonga, please, put the facts straight. 2nd April 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 47

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Ibrahim Saney. 2nd April 2026 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 45

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Wandeto.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Is it true that we do not quorate? I, therefore, order that the Quorum Bell be rung for the next 10 minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, having rung the bell for the last 10 minutes...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Member for Chepalungu Constituency, do you want to say something on this?

The Temporary Speaker (David Ochieng’) Hon. David Kiplagat of Soy. There being no further interest on this, could we request the Mover to reply?