David Ouma Ochieng'

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Tubi.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Makueni.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Ikiara.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Lenguris.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') We will not allow any further discussion on this matter. The Chairperson has introduced a new confusion by stating that there was NEMIS and now there is KEMIS. (Loud consultations)(Applause) THE BREASTFEEDING MOTHERS BILL The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Hon. Members. The...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Tubi, what is out of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Tubi, your concern is noted. You may be aware that the relevant committee is conducting a vetting on nominees to the National Police Service Commission this morning, but its members will be in the House in the afternoon. As I said earlier in...

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya MDG) Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I wish to support all reservations, but we need to be clear so that Members know what we are dealing with. At this stage, it does not matter if we were 232 and all of us said 'nay'. We have to get...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Nyamai, proceed.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, as you are aware, when that happens, we have to adjourn. Be upstanding, Hon. Members. ADJOURNMENT The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, the time being 17 minutes to 12.00 p.m., this House stands adjourned until today, Wednesday, 13th August 2025,...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Proceed to lay it. Who is the Co-Chairperson of the Joint Parliamentary CBK? I would imagine this would be the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning. We can skip this and come back to it later. Next order....

The Temporary Speaker (Hon David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Members, you may be awarded as communicated yesterday – that, this afternoon, the Cabinet Secretary for Interior and National Administration will be in the House to respond to such. Therefore, I would rather we hold our horses and ask those questions...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon David Ochieng’)Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Education, this Statement Request is directed at your committee. Hon. Gisairo,

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Did you hear the question?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order. On the issue of the Departmental Committee on Education, this was communicated yesterday by the Hon. Speaker, and it goes to all Chairpersons of committees. There is a reason why we have a Chairman and a Vice-Chairman of a committee. The idea that...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order. We are not discussing the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. Your matter is very specific. Direct it to the Departmental Committee on Education. The Committee is so directed that the response to this Statement Request will be filed in the first...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Request for Statement is directed to the Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure. Is the Chairperson or the Vice-Chairperson in the House? (Hon. Joyce Kamene crossed the aisle without bowing to the Chair) Hon. Kamene, what have you just done? You have done...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Very well. The earlier communication I had given still stands – that this House frowns upon Chairpersons of committees, who have the responsibility of being here but frequently fail to attend. This behaviour is unacceptable. We cannot hold Hon. Dawood accountable as he is...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) This Request for Statement is referred to the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations. Is the Chairperson here? Who is the Vice-Chairperson? This matter is serious and should not be left to just any Member. Hon. Deputy Leader of the Majority Party,...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) How long do you need to respond to this one?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Tomorrow is okay. I hope you will keep your word. Is Hon. Kirima in the House? If he is not in, we will move on to Responses to Statements raised earlier. We have three responses from the Departmental Committee on Education regarding requests for...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next Order. NOTICE OF MOTION APPROVAL OF NOMINEE FOR APPOINTMENT AS MEMBER OF THE CBK BOARD

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Sunkuli, what is out of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Naomi Waqo, you know that Hon. Sunkuli is a ranking Member. For clarity, go ahead and do what is requested of you.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well done! Members, for the convenience of the House, I am informed that Hon. Kirima and Hon. Kagiri are now in the House. We request that Members who have business listed in the Order Paper be here on time. It is only through your...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Chairperson of Departmental Committee on Education, there is a question posed to you regarding the absorption of P1

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I think we should leave it at that and wait for the reply. The Question is elaborate, Hon. Chairman. I want you to get time to look at the Order Paper. It is a very elaborate question regarding P1 teachers, promotions, and specifically those...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') The Leader of the Majority Party, Hon. Baya, this is directed to you. Considering this is an election year in Tanzania, when can we expect a response?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) This is a very elaborate question, Hon. Baya. If you listened to Hon. Kagiri, the question cuts across four departmental committees. We hope that the response will be equally comprehensive and elaborate.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, I am informed that the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Education has flown back from Homa Bay and is now in the House. We had earlier been informed that he was in Homa Bay. I will allow him to respond to...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Nyamai, what is out of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I confirm that Hon. Bashir has finished his term of imprisonment and is rightfully in the House this morning. Hon. Melly, go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Bashir, how long was your punishment?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order! Order, Hon. Melly. I want to say this with a lot of respect. The Speaker made a ruling yesterday, and as a friend, I took it upon myself to call and inform you of it. I also said this morning that we will...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mumina, allow him to finish this Statement, and then we can deal with all of them together. CHALLENGES FACING THE KIAMBU NATIONAL POLYTECHNIC

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mumina, proceed.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) We are waiting for that report. The Member for Kiambu, proceed.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Nandi County. She was just seeking clarification. That is why I allowed her to speak.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Isiolo County. Just hold your horses.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Chairman, this is a very straightforward matter that does not need back and forth.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') Hon. Chairman, there is nothing wrong in the Committee. Isiolo County is not in Uganda or Tanzania. It is in the country. Why can't the Committee do a spot check in one of the schools, one of these days? If Members of Parliament are...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Dawood. Hon. Chairperson, take down all the Members’ concerns, so that you can deal with them at once.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Nyamai.

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the President’s Reservations to the National Land Commission (Amendment) Bill, (National Assembly Bill No. 43 of 2023) , and approved the same without amendments.

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the President’s Reservations to the National Land Commission (Amendment) Bill, (National Assembly Bill No. 43 of 2023) , and approved the same without amendments.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Member for Mandera South.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said. The Member for Mandera North.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hold on, Hon. Abdullahi. Member for Luanda, you were the next to speak, but you removed your card. It was in the queue, but then it was removed. You were ahead of Hon. Abdullahi. Just reinsert your card, then you will speak after him....

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Luanda.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Baringo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Matungulu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Nambale.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Go ahead with your contribution, Hon. Mulanya.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Give me a minute, Hon. Mulanya. What is out of order, Member for Baringo? If you want to disagree with him, I will not allow you.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) That is a point of argument, but not out of order, Hon. Member.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Lastly on this will be the Member for Saku.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) What is out of order, Member for Nyeri? Is it the Member for Nyeri?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, this has been a very interesting one. As one finishes, Members have kept coming one by one. I indulge Hon. Zamzam for five minutes or less. She will be the last Member to speak on this matter before I call the Mover...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, there being no further interest in this matter, I will call upon the Mover to reply, but before he replies, I would like to recognise students from the following schools, who are seated in the Public Gallery: Fountain Gate Preparatory School from...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Do not disrupt the Member. Please, let him finalise.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) As requested by Hon. Shakeel, the putting of the Question on this matter is deferred accordingly. (Putting of the Question deferred)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) They are welcome. Next Order. THE BREASTFEEDING MOTHERS BILL The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, debate on this Bill was ongoing. I would like to know whether there are any Members who wish to speak to it. (Hon. Catherine Omanyo approached the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Kitui Central.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Kangundo, do you want to contribute to the Bill? Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I do not see any further requests to contribute to this Bill, so I request the Mover to reply. Member for Baringo County, do you want to contribute to the Bill? Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Sabina Chege, it is your chance to reply.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said. Hon. Members, for obvious reasons, voting on this matter will be done during the next sitting, when the Bill appears on the Order Paper. (Putting of the Question deferred) ADJOURNMENT The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, the time being 1.00

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Migori County.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Tetu. Hon. Bedzimba, you are next in the queue after the Member for Tetu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Kitui Rural.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Member for Wajir North.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Hon. Members! Hon. Members, I welcome students from Jimjam Academy, Moiben Constituency, Uasin Gishu County; Timbila Junior Secondary School from Taveta Constituency, Taita Taveta County and Olornganayio Secondary School from Narok South, Narok County, seated in the Public Gallery. They are welcome to...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Kamukunji.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said. Member for Kisauni. 6th August 2025 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 23

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Member for Mandera South.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said. The Member for Mandera North.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hold on, Hon. Abdullahi. Member for Luanda, you were the next to speak, but you removed your card. It was in the queue, but then it was removed. You were ahead of Hon. Abdullahi. Just reinsert your card, then you will speak after him....

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Luanda.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Baringo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Matungulu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Nambale.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Go ahead with your contribution, Hon. Mulanya.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Give me a minute, Hon. Mulanya. What is out of order, Member for Baringo? If you want to disagree with him, I will not allow you.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) That is a point of argument, but not out of order, Hon. Member.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Lastly on this will be the Member for Saku.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) What is out of order, Member for Nyeri? Is it the Member for Nyeri?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, this has been a very interesting one. As one finishes, Members have kept coming one by one. I indulge Hon. Zamzam for five minutes or less. She will be the last Member to speak on this matter before I call the Mover...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, there being no further interest in this matter, I will call upon the Mover to reply, but before he replies, I would like to recognise students from the following schools, who are seated in the Public Gallery: Fountain Gate Preparatory School from...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Do not disrupt the Member. Please, let him finalise.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) As requested by Hon. Shakeel, the putting of the Question on this matter is deferred accordingly. (Putting of the Question deferred)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) They are welcome. Next Order. THE BREASTFEEDING MOTHERS BILL The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, debate on this Bill was ongoing. I would like to know whether there are any Members who wish to speak to it. (Hon. Catherine Omanyo approached the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Kitui Central.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Kangundo, do you want to contribute to the Bill? Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I do not see any further requests to contribute to this Bill, so I request the Mover to reply. Member for Baringo County, do you want to contribute to the Bill? Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Sabina Chege, it is your chance to reply.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said. Hon. Members, for obvious reasons, voting on this matter will be done during the next sitting, when the Bill appears on the Order Paper. (Putting of the Question deferred) ADJOURNMENT The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, the time being 1.00

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Migori County.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Tetu. Hon. Bedzimba, you are next in the queue after the Member for Tetu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Kitui Rural.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Member for Wajir North.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Hon. Members! Hon. Members, I welcome students from Jimjam Academy, Moiben Constituency, Uasin Gishu County; Timbila Junior Secondary School from Taveta Constituency, Taita Taveta County and Olornganayio Secondary School from Narok South, Narok County, seated in the Public Gallery. They are welcome to...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Kamukunji.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said. Member for Kisauni. 6th August 2025 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 23

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Go ahead.

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Hon. Speaker, I rise on a sad note under Standing Order 259 (D) (2) to pay tribute to Hon. James Mukhongo Barasa Mukhongo, a Member of the Bungoma County Assembly for Chwele/Kabuchai Ward, who passed on yesterday. Hon. Speaker, you would know him better as...

Hon. David Ochieng’ (Ugenya, MDG) Hon. Speaker, I rise on a sad note under Standing Order 259 (D) (2) to pay tribute to Hon. James Mukhongo Barasa Mukhongo, a Member of the Bungoma County Assembly for Chwele/Kabuchai Ward, who passed on yesterday. Hon. Speaker, you would know him better as...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Not that way, Hon. Sabina Chege. You are now a seasoned Member. This is your chance to debate the Motion - you have already read it aloud. Can you now tell us what you want this House to do, as usual? After that, you...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Member for Kwanza. You cannot be casting aspersions on the Speakership every time you are given a chance to speak. You queued. All those who have spoken before you queued. You cannot be doing that all the time. Have your chance and let...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng) I did not know the kind of things you discuss with Hon. Thuku are that terrible. Member for Mombasa County, the Floor is yours.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Kitui South.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, we have guests. In the Public Gallery, we have students from Karirikania Comprehensive School, Kuresoi North Constituency, Nakuru County, and students from Digital Junior Educational Centre in Embakasi West, Nairobi County. They are welcome to follow our proceedings this morning in the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) This chance goes to the Member for Elgeyo Marakwet

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Waluke, talk to your friend and ask him to do the right thing. (Hon. John Koyi consulted with Hon. Innocent Obiri) Is that Hon. Obiri? You know what to do. (Hon. Innocent Obiri went to the Bar and bowed to the Chair) Proceed,...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Go ahead. In any case, Hon. Pukose, you know that you can amend the Motion.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) We shall proceed with the debate. We will retrieve the Motion as approved by the Speaker, then amend it at that time. Proceed.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) We will seek clarification and amend accordingly. Member for Endebess, proceed.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') Member for Endebess, the Mover of the Motion says that she has a point of order. Have a seat. What is out of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') Hon. (Dr) Nyikal, you had told us before that SHA was part of your brainchild, and it is possible for it to work. I am wondering thus: if you want to have this policy, you need to handle one matter, and this will work....

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, before we go to Hon. Member for Seme, join me in welcoming students from Blessed Christian Centre School, Makadara Constituency, Nairobi County, seated in the Public Gallery. In the Speaker’s Gallery are students from the Fountain School, Gatundu South, Kiambu County and...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. I was hoping that at some point, Hon. Sabina Chege and Hon. Hilary would inform us that they are relinquishing their medical scheme in Parliament. Next is the Member for Dagoretti North.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, this is a very important Motion. I request that you consult in low tones to allow Members to be heard as they debate. (Question proposed) The first chance goes to Hon. Hilary Kosgei.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Hon. Members. We will listen to the Member for Taita Taveta County in silence. Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Taita Taveta County.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I must remind Members that the Motion on the Floor of the House is not about village elders from Moiben. The Motion on the POLICY ON MANDATORY USE OF PUBLIC HEALTHCARE FACILITIES BY PUBLIC OFFICERS

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) If there is no interest in this, for obvious reasons, we will move to the next Order. The Question will be put to this matter when we have the necessary quorum. 23rd July 2025 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 16 The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)Next...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Mover.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Chairperson.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Eli Letipila is now recognised.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Eli Letipila is now recognised.