David Ouma Ochieng'

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Chairperson.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng) Let us have the Mover, Hon. Deputy Speaker.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Hon. Members! You will vote the wrong way because you are not listening. (Question proposed) Hon. Members, there is an amendment.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Should I put the Question?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next Order. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY [The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) left the Chair)] IN THE COMMITTEE [The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. Martha Wangari) in the Chair] CONSIDERATION OF SECOND SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES FOR FY 2024/2025 VOTE 1173 - STATE DEPARTMENT FOR CO-OPERATIVES 13th March 2025...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Chairperson.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Mover.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) If that is the feeling, I will, therefore, put the Question. (Question put and agreed to) The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next Order. THE SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION BILL The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Mover. Is it the Chairperson of the Liaison Committee or...

Hon. Temporary Chairman. The Temporary Chairman (David Ochieng’)Hon. Oundo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, we do not have quorum. So, the Quorum Bell shall be rung for 10 minutes. The Majority Party and Minority Party Whips are asked to do what they need to do this morning. (The Quorum Bell was rung) The Temporary Speaker (Hon....

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Next Order. QUESTIONS AND STATEMENTS REQUEST FOR STATEMENTS The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) There is a request for statement by Hon. Onchoke. I have seen him in the House. Go ahead. Please, read the request for statement as it is. DRUG...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Ruku, you shall not do what you are trying to do. (Hon. Ruku GK spoke off the record) Order, Hon. Ruku. Hon. Onchoke shall be heard in silence. Hon. Ruku, you shall be silent as the Member puts his request for statement across....

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. I will allow a few comments on this. Hon. Ruku, go up there, get your card, and then I will allow you to speak.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Go ahead and insert your card, Hon. Ruku. You can now proceed.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. (Hon. Ruku GK spoke off the record) The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Can we allow Hon. Munyoro to say something? This is not a debate! You have had your chance.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Ruku, do you consider cigarettes a drug?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) You do not say ‘sig-ret’! You say ‘si-guh-ret’.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I have asked you a question. Would you consider a cigarette a drug or not?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Baya.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Let us have ‘General’ Bashir.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mutuse.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order! Order! Hon. Ruku, take your seat. Hon. Mutuse, take your seat. Hon. Members, I am not going to throw anybody out of Parliament this morning. (Loud consultations)Committee on Education in the House? Go ahead, Hon. Gisairo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. The next request for statement is by Hon. Peter Mbogho, the Member for Mwatate. UNFAIR DISMISSAL OF MR. PAUL MZENGE BY THE KENYA PORTS AUTHORITY

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Baya, I cannot see the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Labour in the House. Would you take charge of this? I hope you got the request for statement.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) How long will this take?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Is it possible to get an answer during the first week after we resume from recess?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Peter, you will take it up with him so that it is addressed at the right time. CONSTRUCTION OF KIREGE-FOREST-MUBUKURO ROAD IN CHUKA/IGAMBANG’OMBE 12th March 2025 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 6 The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Member for Chuka/Igambang’ombe. Hon. Patrick Ntwiga...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, before we move to the next Statement, join me in welcoming students from the following schools: (Applause)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. ORDINARY QUESTIONS DISMISSAL OF MRS JANET KADZO OF TSC NO. 468522 BY THE TEACHERS SERVICE COMMISSION The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, I have two Questions to the Independent Offices and Commissions. The first one is by Hon. Baya, the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) This request is referred to the Departmental Committee on Education, which shall summon the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of TSC to deal with the matter. 12th March 2025 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 8 The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)Is Hon. Kasalu in the House? I...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. That is a very weighty issue that has been raised by the Member for Kitui County. There are ladies who are married in counties where they cannot be employed because they cannot produce marriage certificates. I hope the Departmental Committee on Education...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Hon. Owen Baya. Take your seat. Hon. Ngogoyo, what do you want to say?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Baya, this is your Motion. So, what is your point of order? Hon. Dawood, let us hear what Hon. Baya has to say.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Is it a point of order or do you want to argue?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Hon. Baya. Take your seat. This is a Motion, and you are debating it. You cannot say that a Member has bad manners simply because he has a view that is opposed to yours. Hon. Dawood, go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Let us have Hon. Sabina Chege.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) He is not Ngogoyo. He is Hon. Ngogoyo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Last to speak on this is Hon. Makali Mulu.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Baya, I am sure you sit in the House Business Committee. Do you sit in the House Business Committee?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Baya, just take your seat. What Hon. Makali is raising is very important. That every time the Majority side borrows for Private Member's Bill, they should refund that time. That is the issue he is raising. I hope that the Leadership has listened...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Gladys, we had gone through these recommendations. So, you can just say, ‘As per the Order Paper’ because everything you are mentioning is in the Order Paper.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Yes, go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well done, Hon. Chairperson. Hon. Members, before Hon. Martha Wangari seconds, join me in welcoming pupils and students from Sheria House School from Starehe Constituency, Nairobi County; Kiriani Boys High School from Maara Constituency, Tharaka Nithi County; Kasue Girls Secondary School from Kibwezi West...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, as you are aware, this Motion was moved in an amended form. (Question of the Motion as amended proposed) Deputy Leader of Majority Party, it is now your turn.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') The Quorum Bell can now be stopped. I confirm that we have a quorum. Members can now take their seats. (Hon. Wanami Wamboka walked in the aisle) Hon. Members, I have confirmed that we have a quorum. Hon. Wamboka, it is not your job...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') If you have the Order Paper, Questions will follow the pattern they appear on the last page. I hope Hon. Joyce Kamene is in the House ready with her Question. You already have the microphone with you, Hon. Joyce Kamene. EFFECTS OF WITHDRAWAL OF...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Owino, go back and do the right thing. (Hon. Walter Owino went to the Bar and bowed to the Chair) This request shall be referred to the Departmental Committee on Health. I do not see the Chairperson. Is there any Member of that...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Nairobi, you have two minutes to comment on the request.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)Who is Uhuru Kenyatta?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Members, this statement request is referred to the Departmental Committee on Health. I hope they can bring a report in the next three weeks. Before I give a chance to the Member for Nairobi again, join me in recognising and welcoming students...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') This Request for a Statement is referred to the Committee on Health. Deputy Whip of the Majority Party, I want your attention because the next time these matters come up, I will not ask the Chairpersons. I will ask you about them. The first...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) When?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Is that three weeks from today?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I hope the Member for Nairobi City County has noted that. The next request is from the Member for West Mugirango. STATE OF PREPAREDNESS FOR THE WET SEASON

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Nairobi, I request that you take your seat for a few minutes. Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Beatrice Elachi, do you want to comment on this request for a Statement? Go ahead. You have two minutes.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng') Hon. Naomi Waqo, there seem to be no Chairpersons in the House today. What we expect on this one is a comprehensive Statement covering not only Kisii but the entire country, holistically. What is our preparedness for the wet season for the whole country?...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) You can go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Member for Mwala Constituency. Is this the Member for Mwala? What is wrong with you? From 28th March 2013 until now, you still do not know what to do? You cannot do that, Hon. Vincent Kawaya. Do the right thing.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Makilap, you should not walk without your card. Where is your card? Go ahead. (Laughter)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Hon. Members. Hon. Murugara, Hon. Tindi Mwale, Hon. Rindikiri and Hon. Makilap could you all take your seats. Consult in low tones so that we can hear the Member contributing.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order, Hon. Members. We are discussing a very important Motion. I wish that we hear the Member in silence.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I will give you one more minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) You do not catch the eye of the Speaker by doing that. You know that very well. You do it by logging in. I will follow the table that is here. The first person is Hon. George Gitonga Murugara. Do you want to contribute...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Murugara your chance was lost because you were busy. Allow the Leader of the Majority Party to contribute first and then you contribute after him.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Kangogo, I will not tire of reminding you. I came to this House on 28th March 2013. You are not the person speaking now. You cannot be between him and the Speaker when he is contributing. You cannot.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Before you sit, what will happen to them if they do not actualise? This is not the first time we are talking about the TSA. What will happen to them?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) No! This is will be a House resolution.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) This is your chance Hon. Murugara.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next is the Member for Kitui Central.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next is Hon. Mutunga.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I will give you 30 seconds. You do not have the whole... (Hon. (Dr) John Mutunga Kanyuithia spoke off the record) You should not be highlighting anything. You should be winding up.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Marakwet East.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Seme.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Yatta.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. (Dr) Pukose, what is out of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Robert, your namesake is Hon. (Dr) Robert Pukose. The younger Hon. Robert, could you relate to us what you are saying with the debt strategy?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) No! No! The rules say that a Member who contributes must be relevant. He is asking how harambee contributions are relevant to the Medium-Term Debt Management Strategy. That is the issue.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) You are completely out of order on that. Please, proceed and prosecute your point.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Baringo, proceed.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Tinderet.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Why should you have one minute? Okay, you have one minute.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Funyula.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon Melly, the Member of Funyula is making his point. What is out of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order!

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) What is out of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) He is debating. He will debate using his own words, not yours. Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Member for Uasin Gishu wants to inform you. Do you want to be informed?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) We will allow the Honourable Member for Funyula to finish his speech.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next is the Member for Endebess Constituency. Hon. Baya, you just walked in. Some Members have been queuing since we started.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next is the Member for Kitui Rural, Hon. Mboni.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Please add him 30 seconds.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Let us have the Member for Kilifi North.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) It is 2036. 5th March 2025 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 106

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said. Hon. Irene Mayaka.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next is the Member for Mbeere North.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) What is out of order, Hon. Oundo?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Proceed, Hon. Ruku.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) You have 30 seconds.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Members, there being no further interest in the Motion, I call upon the Mover to reply. Proceed, Hon. Gladys Boss.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Members, for obvious reason, the decision on this Motion will be made when it next appears on the Order Paper. (Putting of the Question deferred) Next Order!

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mayaka, what is out of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Under Standing Order 35, it does not matter what is to be discussed next. It is on its own. I order the Quorum Bell to be rung for five minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) 5th March 2025 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 110 ADJOURNMENT The...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you and well said. The Member for Siaya County, Hon. Ombaka.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) The Member coming in, go back to the Bar, bow and then walk in.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Okay.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said. Members, join me in welcoming and recognising the presence of students from St. Thomas Aquinas Kyaani Secondary School, Kibwezi West, Makueni County. They are seated in the Public Gallery. Members, you should show your appreciation by stumping your feet. (Members stumped their...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Member for Baringo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Next on the list is the Member for Busia.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Let us have the Member for Kitui West. Is she in the House? It seems she is not. Let us have the Member for Kisii. Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) No! The Member has a choice of words to use. She has already said she did not like the situation. It would be worse if you ask her to describe the activities she mentioned. Hon. Donya, you have a choice. Proceed to argue your...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) To the Member walking towards the Chair, that is not your place to walk on. You are not supposed to block the Speaker from seeing the Member who is speaking. Please go back and walk behind her.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) There is nothing out of order, Hon. Otiende. You are a senior here and you know the rules. She has just completed her contribution. There is nothing out of order. Go ahead.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Adipo has his mouth and legs. I am sure he can speak for himself, and walk. Hon. Adipo, do you confirm that you are seeking exemption? 4th March 2025 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 34

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Member from Kisii, Hon. Mayaka.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Mayaka knows better than Hon. Otiende in this kind of matter. (Laughter)

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Member for Narok North, you want to speak on this matter? Hon. Pareyio, you requested to speak on this matter?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Thank you. Hon. Members, the time allotted for debate on this Bill has lapsed. It is now my chance to call the Mover of the Bill, Hon. Masara, to reply.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Masara, you can proceed.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’)Thank you and well said, Dr Masara.(Putting of the question deferred)Hon. Members, his request for deferment of the Question on this Bill at Second Reading is granted. The putting of the Question is deferred to the next time the Bill will be slotted in the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Has it been debated? 4th March 2025 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 39

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) My direction on this matter is that we shall proceed, and the next time this Report is scheduled for debate, we will give communication on the issue Hon. Otiende has raised.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) I wanted to give some direction. Hon. Otiende, has your issue been addressed? (Hon. Wanjiku Muhia spoke off the record) The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Wanjiku, I have heard you and noticed that you are here. Hon. Otiende, you addressed an issue...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) For purposes of this debate, I will allow Members who are inclined to refer to the earlier Report to do so. As the Chairperson has said, the Report that you are debating today is a product of the latter Report. The Committee harmonised the...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Muhia, insert your card in the intervention slot so that I can give you an opportunity to prosecute your point of order. Just get your card. There are staff members over there. You can send them to get your card so that you...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Allow him to finish his sentence. My advice to the Clerk-at-the-Table is that it is good to allow a Member to finish the sentence before cutting them off on the time.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Caroli Omondi.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Order. It is good to debate so that Kenyans are informed. Hon. Murugara, you can give us the page in the Report where the Committee accepted that proposal. The only thing they call overly ambitious is the proposal to implement it in this term...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Caroli, I am holding you to this because you are reading the Report of the Committee selectively. If you read paragraphs 88 and 89, it states that they agree with the Report and the two-thirds gender rule should be implemented through party lists....

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said. Thank you. Hon. Otiende Amollo.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Wanjiku Muhia, what is your point of order?

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Of course, we shall have Quorum. Therefore, I order that the Quorum Bell be rung for the next five minutes. (The Temporary Speaker consulted the Clerk-at-the-Table) Okay. The Quorum Bell shall be rung for ten minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) The Temporary Speaker...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Well said. Hon. (Dr) Oundo, you need to plant more trees especially in Odiado Hills. You need to get the best species for Odiado Hills. Let us hear the Member for Moiben.

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) How many years do you have to wait before you make that quick money? Hon. Phylis Bartoo (Moiben, UDA) : Within two years. It is very lucrative because within two years, you get money, firewood and shade. In places where trees take a long...

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Hon. Umulkher Harun. 13th November 2024 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 39

The Temporary Speaker (Hon. David Ochieng’) Member for Wajir North.