Kaluma George Peter Opondo

Hon. Members, the time being Published by Clerk of the National Assembly Parliament Buildings NAIROBI

Next is Hon. Wilberforce Oundo.

Order, Hon. (Dr) Oundo. There is a point of order from Hon. Parashina Sakimba.

You have made your point. Hon. (Dr) Oundo is guided. Hon. Oundo, you have noted that I raised the concern about the clause of the Bill you were referring to. Your statements should relate to a clause in the Bill and to how we can make the Bill better.

Just a minute, Hon. Oundo. Looking at Clause 3, which you referred to, the Special Economic Zones Act is being amended through this Bill to include subsection (k) in respect of midstream petroleum operations zones and upstream petroleum operations zones. The concern being raised is that this is not specific...

Hon. Oundo, proceed.

Hon. Oundo, on every Bill, there is a financial implications statement. In respect of this Bill, having gone through the parliamentary processes, it is said that the enactment of this Bill will not occasion additional expenditure of public funds. Are you saying that the reality is to the contrary?

I will give every Hon. Member a fair opportunity to contribute to this debate. I note the Vice-Chair is very keen, but I want to give the next chance to Hon. Emmanuel Wangwe. I recognise Hon. Emmanuel Wangwe before the Vice-Chairperson.

Hon. (Dr) Oundo and Hon. Marianne Kitany, take your seats. I have a good reason for giving Hon. Wangwe the opportunity to address the matters contained in the Bill even though he is not a member of the Committee. You will benefit from what he will say.

Hon. (Dr) Oundo has nodded in agreement. Hon. Marianne Kitany is next. (Laughter)

Thank you. Next is Hon. Gichimu Githinji, the Member for Gichugu.

Hon. Members, this is a very brief Bill. If you could, I would want the contribution of each Member speaking to be conscripted to under five minutes to enable us go to the real legislation stage – which is the Committee of the whole House – by the end of...

Hon. (Dr) Eve Akinyi, the Member for Kabondo Kasipul, is recognised to make her contribution.

Okay. Hon. Parashina.

Hon. Members, there being no further interest in this debate, I call upon the mover to reply. Do we have the Mover in the House? The Mover appears to have stepped out. The next time this business is scheduled to be transacted by the House, it will be the opportunity...

Next is Hon. (Dr) James Njikal.

Under what arrangement is cage farming practised within the Lake now that the same space where you practise cage farming could conflict with other people who also want to put transport lines and where fellow fishermen also want to do cage fishing? Do the entrepreneurs lease or pay some taxes...

Thank you, Hon. Nyikal. Next is Hon. Rindikiri Mugambi. Let us hear what coffee and tea farmers have to say on the Bill.

Well said, Hon. Rindikiri Mugambi. The Member for Chepalungu, Victor Koech Mandazi, is next.

Hon. (Dr) John Mutunga.

Let us have Hon. Makilap, Member for Baringo Central. Is it Baringo Central?

I have delayed your contribution to confirm with Hon. Millie that you are ready to go. You seem to be keen to contribute to this. I wanted your signal that you are ready to go.

Let us have Hon. Dorothy Ikiara, Nominated Member.

The Whip of the Minority Party, because of rank and deep knowledge on the subject matter.

Will the two minutes enable you to also touch on something on the exclusive economic zone? This is because I have heard you speak a lot about fisheries in inland waters.

Hon. Members, the last time we had a boat rowing competition in Homa Bay County, a boat called Amilo Bad Gal won. That was the second time it won. That is why I gave Hon. Millie a lot of time. She has a lot of expertise. I hope her views...

Hon. Julius Sunkuli, Member of Parliament for Kilgoris.

Hon. Rozaah Akinyi Buyu.

Hon. Joshua Kimilu.

Hon. Jared Okello is next. He will be followed by Hon. Beatrice Elachi and then Hon. Caroli Omondi. If there is no more interest to contribute to the Bill, the Mover will reply.

Well spoken, Hon. Jared Okello. Hon. Beatrice Elachi.

Hon. Beatrice Elachi, do you want to be informed?

Give the information, Hon. Rozaah Buyu.

Dr Beatrice Elachi was interrupted when we were dealing with a very serious subject. 200 nautical miles from the shores of Lake Victoria to the Indian Ocean is Kenya's exclusive economic zone. You can imagine the amount of fish stock and the blue economy resources that are there and yet,...

Hon. Caroli Omondi.

Hon. Eve Obara, you have less than five minutes.

Mover to now reply.

Next Order. HOJA UKAGUZI WA ASASI ZA JUMUIYA YA AFRIKA MASHARIKI Thank you. Go back to Order No. 12. There being no noted interest, the Mover will reply. (Hon. Millie Odhiambo-Mabona spoke off the record) Do you have interest in this Order? You may proceed.

Kwa wakati huu, mtoa Hoja atahitimisha. (Several Members spoke off the record) Naona bado kuna interest katika hii Hoja. Mhe. Beatrice Elachi.

Wabunge, wakati wa kutamatisha Kikao cha Bunge umewadia. ADJOURNMENT Hon. Members, the time being Published by Clerk of the National Assembly Parliament Buildings NAIROBI

Hon. Elachi, I hope you will be hosting children from children’s homes during Easter, as you usually do. I hope you have the means to continue that legacy. Next is Hon. Gabriel Tongoyo.

Chair of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs, we all understand that we have a different president this time. There are many infrastructure development projects going on. The president is travelling across the country. For example, he was in Homa Bay County the other day, and a new...

Thank you, Chairman. I hope you have adequately provided for the police, particularly the General Service Unit (GSU) . I also hope you addressed the issue of that hospital. I am now of a changed view after the presentations. They need money so that it can be operationalised. Who is...

Next is Hon. Rozaah Buyu, on a special request.

Hon. Makali Mulu, proceed because of rank. I have been giving priority to the Chairpersons of Departmental Committees so they may speak on behalf of their respective departments. Hon. Kangogo Bowen, do not rise to speak about infrastructure and roads. Speak about water. Hon. Makali Mulu, proceed.

Hon. Makali, proceed.

Hon. Kangogo Bowen, followed by Hon. John Kiarie and then the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Energy. Do not take too much time, since we have less than 40 minutes left before closing this debate.

Leader of the Majority Party has made his point. Hon. Kangogo.

When you submit them, you will help the House a great deal. Hon. Makali has said we need to buy equipment for cancer treatment. We can knock off those projects and take the money there if it has not been allocated.

Oh, that is the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee. What is out of order?

Chairman of the Budget and Appropriation Committee, you made your point, and it is correct. Hon. Kangogo, can you conclude?

You cannot stand on a point of order when the Member is done. Hon. John Kiarie was to follow. Hon. Chairpersons, could you reduce your contributions to under 10 minutes each?

Hon. David Gikaria.

Hon. Mutunga, (Loud consultations)

Hon. Robert Basil.

Mover to reply.

Order, Hon. Members. I am the one who is running the House. I want to understand what is out of order. You may continue.

I allowed him to make his contribution because he is speaking the language of my new party leader. (Laughter) APPROVAL OF DRAFT SRC (REMUNERATION AND BENEFITS OF STATE AND OTHER PUBLIC OFFICERS) REGULATIONS Let us have the Mover. Where is the Chairperson of the Committee on Delegated Legislation? Hon. Victor...

(Motion deferred)Do not go that direction. Do we have the Mover of the Motion under Order No. 14? It will be stepped down. Next Order. UKAGUZI WA ASASI ZA JUMUIYA YA AFRIKA MASHARIKI (Motion deferred)The consideration of this Motion is also stepped down to a later date when it will...

I order the Quorum Bell to be rung for 10 minutes for the House to quorate. (The Quorum Bell was rung) Hon. Members, the Quorum Bell will be rung for a further 10 minutes to allow all Members to come into the Chamber. (The Quorum Bell was rung) Hon. Members,...

Hon. Sarah Polata Korere, the decision on whether or not a Member shall be named is not for the House to decide. It is for me, as the presiding Speaker, to do so. Pursuant to Standing Order 108 (1) , I name Hon. Kibagendi for gross disorderly conduct. Is Hon....

Hon. Caroli Omondi, can you do it the way we normally do? I am not seeing you on intervention. Please do. (Several Members spoke off the record) I am seeing your card on the requests for communication. Can you please make your appropriate interventions? Yes, Hon. Caroli Omondi. Now, you...

The Speaker is not aware of the court matter you are speaking about. The Speaker is also not aware of the orders, if any, issued on the matter. The Speaker is not aware of whether or not that matter is active in court. In any event, as per precedence and...

Hon. Members, I beg you to look at the provisions of Standing Order 108. No debate is allowed on such a Motion. It cannot be adjourned. For the benefit of Members who may not have interacted with Standing Order 108, it provides that whenever a Member shall have been named...

Hon. Clive Gisairo, it is disorderly conduct to raise unnecessary points of order, more so when the Speaker is on his feet. Hon. Members will decide. This has nothing to do with the removal of Hon. Antoney Kibagendi from his seat as the Member of Parliament for the good people...

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. Let me start by thanking your office and the Clerk's office for the support the Committee received during its public participation in this matter. This is one matter that has undergone very detailed public participation for the whole two weeks.

I thank you, Hon. Speaker. It is not for you to explain the law… (Hon. Kimani Ichung’wah spoke off the record)

I thank you, Hon. Speaker. There was an intervention when I was thanking you for the adequate public participation. (Hon. Caroli Omondi spoke off the record)

Hon. Speaker, on the matter of public participation… (Hon. Caroli Omondi spoke off the record) Please, Hon. Caroli, allow me to contribute. Go on. Hon. Speaker, no other matter has undergone public participation, as this one. I was thanking you because the records of the House show that, for a...

Hon. Speaker, I do not know what has become of Dr Oundo. Go on. Hon. Speaker, I am speaking to the matter of inequality, and the unequal manner in which infrastructure, in particular, has been developed by previous government administrations across the country. I was confirming what was said here...

Hon. Gideon Ochanda.

Hon. Irene Mayaka, you are recognised. Make your contribution. Are there other Members interested in the Motion after Hon. Irene Mayaka? Is Hon. Kibet Komingoi in the House? He seems not. Hon. John Kiragu, do you wish to contribute to this Motion? Certainly, he is not interested. So, after Hon....

The Mover may now reply.

Next Order. APPROVAL OF THE NATIONAL AVIATION POLICY Mover.

Hon. Kitayama.

Thank you. (Question proposed) Hon. Jared Okello.

Hon. John Kiarie Waweru, Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Communication, Information and Innovation.

The Great Corner. Is that not what they call Dagoretti Corner?

Hon. Amina Mnyazi, I thought only Hon. Ruweida is a pilot from the Coast. Do you want to contribute to this?

Hon. Beatrice Kemei, Member for Kericho County.

Hon. Dorothy Ikiara.

Hon. Sabina Chege.

Hon. Sabina Chege, your daughter is a daughter of Parliament. We wish her well in her aviation career. Hon. Rindikiri Mugambi.

Hon. Kibet Komingoi.

No more interests. The Mover to reply. Mover!

Thank you, Hon. Chairman. If the rebuilding of JKIA—which is planned by the current administration—is completed, it will make President Ruto the greatest Kenya has ever had. I am grateful for the support the Committee and Parliament is giving that endeavour. The Chairman, Budget and

Next Order. HOJA UKAGUZI WA ASASI ZA JUMUIYA YA AFRIKA MASHARIKI Mwenyekiti, Kamati ya Utangamano wa Kikanda.

Mwafiki.

Ahsante, Mhe. Mwashako. Mhe. Naomi Waqo.

Nini? Ni mambo gani yanamsumbua Mheshimiwa wa Kuria Mashariki?

Order, Hon. Members! Hon. Kitayama, umebakisha dakika tatu. Utamaliza majadiliano yako kuhusu Hoja hii wakati itakaporatibishwa kujadiliwa na ile Kamati inayosimamia mambo hayo wakati ujao. ADJOURNMENT Order, Hon. Members! The time being Published by Clerk of the National Assembly Parliament Buildings NAIROBI

On a point of order, Hon. Speaker. There is a point of order, Hon. Munyoro. The House is being misled into believing that the Committee undertook public participation in only 20 counties. I am a Member of the Committee and the Report is clear. We went to 30 counties. That...

On a point of information, Hon. Speaker.

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. On the question of why Vodacom: these shares are listed on the Nairobi Securities Exchange. Under company law, where there is a majority shareholder, Vodacom currently holds 40 per cent, the Government of Kenya holds 35 per cent, while other individual shareholders hold 25 per cent....

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai) : What is out of order, Hon. Kaluma? Hon. Temporary Chairlady, could the Mover explain this in better detail? I am struggling to get the impact the amendment seeks to give. You know, as much...

The justification is more confusing than before. We can proceed. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai) : Hon. Peter Kihungi, Member for Kangema.

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Chairlady. This provision, as a whole, unless amended further, would be inconsistent with Article 40 of the Constitution, which is the right to property. When you have the right to property, as in this case, you have the right to use, dispose of or abuse without...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, this is the best provision in terms of this amendment because, it protects the small scale farmer in particular from exploitation by factories or large scale farmers who may be seeking to buy their tea at prices they dictate because they are richer, to sell to them...

This being a Committee of the whole House, we agree with Hon. Kagombe, which I do. This is because the provision that we are seeking to amend is better, and yet the one in terms of (b) should be deleted as proposed in the amendment. Hon. Temporary Chairlady, could we...

Who are the buyers?

Unless it is explained that tea buyers and all exporters are defined in the Act, this obligation being imposed may be too onerous. Let us confirm who the tea buyers here are. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai) : Okay, can we confirm that? Hon. Kagombe, who are the...

Thank you. If this amendment is passed, it will mean that tea buyers and exporters will be doing so (trading with our tea) for up to 10 years without adding value. It is too long a period, and it is against the public interest. I urge Hon. Members to object....

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Hon. Kaluma, what is out of order? Hon. Temporary Speaker, the matter raised by the Leader of the Majority Party concerning the academic qualification requirements has not been responded to by Hon. Oundo. There is no requirement in terms of qualification to...

On a point of order.

Hon. Temporary Speaker, the issue here is very simple. We do not disagree with what the Committee has observed. The point being made by Hon. Oundo is that even if nobody from the particular association he referred to has been nominated, the law does not state that the absence of...

Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to contribute. I support the Committee’s Report and appointment, if this House approves them, of the nominated people. I do so because this nomination meets the requirements of Article 250 of the Constitution and the relevant Statutes. I also support...

Hon. Julius Ruto, Member for Kesses.

I will put the Question after Hon. Julius Rutto completes his submission. It is ultimately up to the House to decide.

Hon. Members, Hon. Charles Ngusya stood up in his place and invoked Standing Order 95 that the Mover be called upon to reply. (Question, that the Mover be now called upon to reply, put and agreed to) Mover.

Can the Mover approach the Chair? (Hon. Joash Nyamoko approached the Chair) (Hon. Geoffrey Wandeto spoke off record) May those who are standing take their seats? Hon. Wandeto, you cannot raise a point of order when the Speaker is on his feet. Next Order. APPROVAL OF PARTIAL DIVESTITURE OF SAFARICOM...

This is the famous Sessional Paper No. 3 of 2025 on the proposed divestiture of some shares owned by the Government in Safaricom PLC. (The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) consulted with the Clerk-at-the-Table) I direct that you move as the ICT team works.

Hon. Thuku Kwenya.

Members, before I sit, I have a Communication to make in regard to a Motion previously moved and passed by the House under Standing Order No. 97 (1) relating to debates for Sessional Papers. This House orders, as it was so ordered, that each speech in a debate on any...

Hon. Ndindi Nyoro.

Order, Hon. Ndindi Nyoro. What is out of order?

Hon. Ndindi Nyoro.

Hon. Ndindi Nyoro, you know your Temporary Speaker. You will be given all the time you need if any point of order has taken part of your time. Just give your explanation. I hear the point of order. I have guillotined your time deliberately. Your presentation was that the share...

Hon. Kimani Kuria, what is out of order? This is now turning into a competition of finance minds. It is beneficial for our debate.

Order, Leader of the Majority Party. You will not mention Kenyans who are not before the House in a manner that does not enable them to defend themselves. Hon. Makali Mulu, you are old enough to know you cannot talk at the Speaker when the Speaker is giving a ruling....

Leader of the Majority Party, your point is made. Hon. Ndindi Nyoro, I guillotined the time. You will have two minutes. The total time is five minutes. Hon. Ndindi has been upstanding due to the interventions. I request we stop them. It has been for over ten minutes now. I...

So, it is not only P/E ratio which has been proposed. I have not heard the Chairperson say that the model that was used to price these shares was P/E ratio. There were four models that they demonstrated there. The ask is that you demonstrate how you arrive at a...

Thank you, Hon. Ndindi Nyoro. Hon. Daniel Manduku. We want to listen to people who know about finances.

Hon. Irene Mayaka. (Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu raised his hand) Hon. (Dr) Makali, your turn will arrive. Let lady Members also speak.

Hon. (Dr) John Mutunga is recognised.

Hon. Leo Njeru, the Member of Parliament from Mbeere North.

Let us have Hon. Ariko who will be followed by Hon. Caroli Omondi.

Hon. Caroli Omondi.

What is out of order, Hon. Julius Rutto?

You have made your point. Hon. Caroli Omondi, the question is, when are dividends due?

No, Hon. Caroli, we need to take the House seriously. The point you are making is that the 1st of April 2026, which according to the Committee, is a condition imposed in terms of when the transaction should be done, so that we save on Ksh9 billion dividends, which you...

I want to allow Hon. Caroli Omondi to proceed. I do not want to allow many interventions.

Hon. Caroli, do you want Hon. Ndindi to inform you?

Proceed, Hon. Ndindi.

Hon. Caroli, you have a minute to conclude your contribution.

Hon. Caroli Omondi, you have your 30 seconds to conclude.

Order, Hon. Members. Hon. Kuria Kimani, just take your seat. Do not help the Speaker on this. The Sessional Paper spoke about... (Hon. Caroli Omondi spoke off the record) Hon. Caroli, the Sessional Paper spoke about three years. The Committee has put a condition for further protection. I do not...

Hon. Caroli, you are a lawyer. When it is recommended that there will be no redundancy or loss of job as per the Order Paper following on acquisition-related redundancies, what does it mean for a lawyer? Do you need to time it or you are giving an overall protection?

Let us have Hon. Beatrice Elachi who will be followed by Hon. Makali Mulu as I go that way then come this way, in terms of recognitions.

Hon. Makali Mulu.

Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu, you want to...

You are right, Hon. Kimani Kuria. I see what you are saying in the additional resolutions 2, 5, and 6. Let us allow Hon. Makali Mulu because, as you rightly say, he is enriching the report. He is not opposing the sale if I hear him right.

Hon. Jared Okello, the Rulings of the Speaker are never reviewed in the manner you are proposing. Hon. Dick Maungu will now be recognised to speak.

Hon. Timothy Toroitich. In the meantime, may the Leader of the Majority approach the Temporary Speaker.

May the Quorum Bell be rung for ten minutes? (The Quorum Bell was rung) Order, Hon. Members. The Quorum Bell can be stopped. It has rung for 10 minutes. Hon. Timothy Toroitich, you have a balance of two minutes when this matter will be next scheduled. I also commend Hon....

Thank you, Hon. Speaker. I came from abroad today to speak to this Motion. You know you sent me out of the country. (Laughter)

Is it the mood of the House that I put the question? Yes, Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Judge's Retirement Benefits Bill (National Assembly Bill No. 27 of 2025) and approved the same with amendments.

Hon. Dorothy Ikiara.

Hon. Ndindi Nyoro, do you want to contribute to this Motion?

Thank you, Hon. Ndindi. Hon. Mukunji.

Thank you. Hon. Jane Njeri Maina wants to contribute to this. Give her the microphone. The last time she contributed, she had a name called Itungati.

Is that Hon. Gimose? Give Hon. Gimose the microphone.

Thank you, Hon. Gimose. Hon. Eric Muchangi.

There being no more interest from Members to contribute, I now call upon the Mover to reply.

For the convenience of the House, the Motion appearing under Order No.14 will be subjected to a decision when the House Business Committee next schedules it. (Putting the question deferred) Next Order. ADOPTION OF REPORT ON AUDITED ACCOUNTS OF THE JUDICIARY MORTGAGE SCHEME FUND FOR FYS 2011/2012 TO 2021/2022 Committee...

Hon. Dorothy Muthoni Ikiara.

Hon. Eric Muchangi.

Hon. Naoma Waqo.

Thank you, Hon. Naomi Waqo. Do we have any more interest on this particular Motion? Hon. Ndindi Nyoro, Member for Kiharu.

I wish you had asked for more time. Hon. Mukunji will now make his contribution.

Member for Kapenguria will now make his contribution.

There being no more interest to contribute and this being similar to the next Motion, I now call upon the Mover to reply. Hon. Jane Maina Njeri, you will contribute on the Motion under Order No.18, which is the same.

Again, the matter appearing under Order No.16 shall be subjected to the House's resolution the next time the House Business Committee reschedules it for consideration. For the convenience of the House, the matter appearing under Order No.17 is stepped down to the future. I have reorganised the Order Paper so...

Hon. Caroline Ng’elechei.

Hon. Njeri Maina Itung’ati.

Hon. Timothy Toroitich, do you want to contribute to this?

There being no more requests, the Mover will reply.

Thank you. Again, the putting of the question to this Motion under Order No.18 is deferred to the future for the convenience of the House. (Putting the question deferred) Next Order! ADOPTION OF REPORT ON AUDITED ACCOUNTS OF THE COMMODITIES FUND FOR FYS 2018/2019 TO 2020/2022 (Motion deferred)Motion is deferred...

Hon. Hussein Barre

Who is the Member lifting his hand? I cannot see you on the list. (Hon. Aden Mohammed spoke off the record) If your card is not there, you cannot be recognised. Is that Hon. Aramat?

Hon. Oundo, do you want to speak to this? Hon. Victor Koech wants to joyride.

This issue is cross-cutting. Even in my constituency, the electric power penetration is very low, though not as low as in Tarbaj Constituency. It is not fair to have 4 per cent while some parts of the country have 100 per cent electric power penetration. I direct that this matter...

You have no power to allow anybody to say anything on the Floor. (Laughter)

Within two weeks, call the Cabinet Secretary for Energy and the Principal Secretary for Energy before you and alert all Members of the House who are affected, so that the matter can be addressed in detail. Parliament will arrange a space that can accommodate all the Members, including the use...

Hon. Yussuf, what is out of order? We have exhausted this one. We are functus officio. You want to raise your next issue? A certified version of this Report

Hon. Yussuf, that is why we are taking the matter back to the Committee for further detailed consideration. Take all that information you have to the Committee when it sits. The Committee is directed, through the Vice- Chairman, Hon. Aramat, to inform the Members when that business will be transacted.

Hon. Basil and other Members, take all those concerns, including those regarding my constituency, to the Committee when it sits on the matter. Next is the response to the request for statement by Hon. Farah Yussuf. Is the Chair, Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs in the House? Yes,...

Hon. Farah Yussuf.

Hon. Yussuf, there is a law dealing with compensation of victims. Is it the Victims Protection Act or the Victims Compensation? Hon. Millie has been quoting this law a lot on the Floor as having been… Is it Victims Compensation?

Hon. Yussuf, I thought we are done. Just give Hon. Yussuf the microphone because of the gravity of the matter.

Thank you, Hon. Farah Yussuf. As you pursue this matter, kindly also look at the law we were referring to. If there is completely no law you can rely upon, consult the Chairperson of the Committee and come up with a way forward, so that that scar in the nation...

Hon. Wanjiku Muhia, I have to give direction on these requests for statements. The Hon. Chairman has been sitting in the House up to a short while ago when the last request for statement was being transacted. Because Hon. Wanjiku has also been sitting in the House throughout, under the...

Hon. Parashina.

Hon. Oundo, I know your matter. Let the Motion be moved and seconded first.

Thank you. Let me propose the question, Hon. Members. You can then proceed to debate, including points of order. The Motion is not yet before you until I propose it. (Question proposed) Hon. Oundo, you are now recognised. What is out of order? A certified version of this Report

Hon. Julius Sunkuli.

Hon. Sunkuli, I can address that immediately. Under Article 2 (6) of the Constitution, all treaties that Kenya ratifies shall form part of the laws of Kenya. There are three approaches to ratification. You may ratify in whole. In which case the treaty with all its provisions will apply upon...

Hon. Parashina.

Hon. Maina Mathenge.

Hon. Oundo, it is being confirmed to me that there is an adoption list of Members constituting quorum to adopt the Report of the Committee. That adoption list does not have you signing anywhere. (Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo spoke off the record) Hon. (Dr) Oundo, I am reporting to you....

Please do so because you are contradicting the decision of the Speaker. Hon. (Dr) Oundo, we have procedures, and we have the substance. If you look at Article 159 of the Constitution in terms of court proceedings, the courts are told to always go to the substance. I would request...

Hon (Dr) James Nyikal, Member for Seme.

Hon. Nyikal, I know you have an amendment and, therefore, contribute and debate the merits of the Motion. You may even move amendments beyond the ones you have sought, but let us not go back to what the Speaker has ruled on.

Hon. Julius Sunkuli.

Hon. Esther Passaris, do you want to speak to the amendment? We are debating the amendment.

Order, Hon. Esther Passaris. We are only debating the amendment proposed by Hon. Nyikal. Let me confirm to you that you will have a chance to contribute on the Motion as amended. I know you fear that you had previously contributed. Could you keep to the amendment proposed by Hon....

Is it the mood of the House that I put the Question for the amendment? Hon. Mathenge. A certified version of this Report

Hon. Beatrice Elachi, do you want to speak to the amendment?

Hon. Ibrahim Saney.

Hon. Members, this is the way to go. We should ensure that we deal with the substance. The Motion already proposes reservations to Article 13.33. Hon. Nyikal additionally, proposes subjecting Article 2.13 to reservation. The debate on his amendment will continue so that we address all the matters of concern...