MAALIM, FARAH

Hon. Speaker, I also wish to add my voice in asking the Cabinet Secretary a question. Way back, there was a water master plan for the North Eastern Province in general. The underlying principle was to see how the surface water can be harvested because it is one of the...

Hon. Gikaria.

Supplementary question or point of order? Who are you at the back there? (Hon. Moses Kirima spoke off record) 5th July 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 38 Hon. Kirima, what is your point of order?

A supplementary question on a Question that we have already gone beyond? We have already gone to the next Question. A matter is live in the House when it is live. When you proceed to the next Order or Question, that matter ceases to be an issue for discussion at...

The Cabinet Secretary has heard this. Make sure you give your answer at the appropriate time by sending it to the House which will take note and notify the Member.

Clearly, while responding to supplementary questions, the Cabinet Secretary will also give an undertaking on all those questions that are pending that essentially Members of Parliament will need to have answered 5th July 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 39 and answers brought to the House. The position is very clear, when...

Order! The lady called Hon. Elachi, what is your point of order? (Hon. Beatrice Elachi spoke off record) Okay. What is your supplementary? (Hon. Jared Okello spoke off record) Order! You cannot have two supplementary questions at the same time. Member of Parliament for Nyando, take your seat. Hon. Beatrice...

Member of Parliament for Nyando, you can ask your supplementary question so that the Cabinet Secretary can answer a number of them at the same time. Proceed.

Hon. Members, I wish to, in all wisdom, bring to your attention that when the Cabinet Secretary is asked specific questions, while the House has the leeway of asking everything under the sun as far as land is concerned from their own constituencies or country, you cannot possibly expect the...

Cabinet Secretary has heard that. I am sure he has also taken note of that. Let us have Hon. Mwenje, followed by Hon. Mogaka.

Wait, Cabinet Secretary, and take a few more supplementary questions. Hon. Mogaka.

Member for Manyatta Constituency.

Member for Mandera North.

Hon. K’oyoo. We will take just two more and then…

The Woman Representative for

Cabinet Secretary, the Temporary 5th July 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 42 came in here. Please, give the right undertakings and make sure that you stick to your words at a later date.The Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Public Works, Housing and Urban Development (Mr Zachariah Mwangi Njeru): Thank you very much,...

Hon. Jared Okello, allow the Cabinet Secretary to conclude his submission. You do not know what he was going to say. You stopped him somewhere in the middle. Continue, Cabinet Secretary. What you do not have, give an undertaking that you are going to do it. The Cabinet Secretary for...

For Homa Bay region, Kirinyaga and Mandera. Cabinet Secretary, please, give specific undertakings for those three sticking out things that were asked by those Members. The Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Public Works, Housing and Urban Development (Mr Zachariah Mwangi Njeru) : For Homabay, I would kindly ask the Member to...

Point taken. Cabinet Secretary, the issue here is that Homa Bay County has never had any titling since Independence. Hon. Njeri Maina and Hon. Major (Rtd) Abdullahi Sheikh had similar situations. You could give specific undertakings for the three. You will report back to the House on the areas they...

One moment for Hon. Josses Lelmengit. Proceed. 5th July 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 44

Order! Supplementary to which

Mhe. Ruweida ungesema nidhamu You are undertaking for Kirinyaga, Mandera North and Emgwen. We go to the next Question. The Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Public Works, Housing and Urban Development (Mr Zachariah Mwangi Njeru) : I am undertaking that next time, I will come with the report to this honourable...

Order! The basic rules that you learn in a very special way is that you do not cast aspersions on the conduct of the Chair in terms of how he is running the House. That should immediately get you out of the House for the rest of the day, but...

Cabinet Secretary. The Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Public Works, Housing and Urban Development (Mr Zachariah Mwangi Njeru) : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. In response to part (i) I wish to respond as follows: According to our records, LR/No.12034 (Original No.11344/1) measuring approximately 35.35 hectares was initially registered as Grant...

Hon. Junet, you are on a point of order.

Member for Baringo Central, proceed.

Hon. Bedzimba, Member for Kisauni. Mhe. Rashid Bedzimba (Kisauni, ODM) : Asante sana, Mhe. Spika wa Muda.

Hon. Bedzimba, ask your supplementary question. Mhe. Rashid Bedzimba (Kisauni, ODM) : Nashukuru, Mhe. Spika wa Muda, kwa kunipatia nafasi kuuliza swali la ziada. Masuala ya ardhi katika Kisauni ni tatizo sugu. Je, Wizara ina mikakati gani kuyakomboa mashamba ili wananchi waishi kwa amani? Kuna tatizo katika shamba la Ugatuzi,...

Table it so that the Cabinet Secretary can also go through it. 5th July 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 48

Submit the letter to the clerks-at-the- Table. (Hon. Junet Mohamed tabled the document) This is a headed letter from the Ministry of Lands, Public Works, Housing and Urban Development. It is signed for the Director R.J. Simiyu and other details are there. For purposes of Parliament, this is authentic unless...

Okay. It is well taken. Any other supplementary questions? We will take two more supplementary questions. Hon. Member for Seme followed by the Member for Chesumei.

Member for Chesumei will be the last one. (Hon. Stephen Mogaka spoke off the record) Okay. Hon. Mogaka will be the last one. Please.

Fair enough. Stephen Mogaka, you have the last opportunity.

You have made your point. Cabinet Secretary, the Chair understands that many of the questions that you are being asked are not the original Questions on the Order Paper. You can only give an undertaking to come back and answer those questions. The Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Housing, and Urban...

Cabinet Secretary, I have heard what you have said. I have given an undertaking on all the areas that you raised. We will see the report. I told him to access the Hansard, so that he knows whether he has addressed every part. Ordinarily, Cabinet Ministers used to come here...

Waziri, you can make an undertaking to look into that and report back to the House. The Cabinet Secretary for Lands, Housing and Urban Development (Mr Zachariah Mwangi Njeru) : Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The Question was on regularisation of squatters in Kisauni Constituency. The Government has...

He will not send an oral response. He will send written responses to the House on all the areas that he has given an undertaking. He understands that communication is written.

The Cabinet Secretary will give you that. Cabinet Secretary, thank you very much for doing a good job. This is clearly a teething period for this new way of trying to get the engagement between the Executive and the Legislature on the Floor of the House. I am sure you...

Yes, Member for Chesumei.

You have raised the issue of quorum. Do we have quorum or not? The Clerk-at-the-Table has told me we do not have quorum. So, ring the bell for 10 minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) (Hon. Zamzam Mohammed rose on her feet) Order, Hon. Zamzam! When the bell is being...

The House is not in session. What point of order? Hakuna Bunge. The Quorum Bell has been rung. The House will be back in session once the quorum bell ceases, unless you want to approach the Chair and consult. You can do that. As at now, you can even cross...

Stop the Quorum Bell. It has been rung for 10 minutes. Hon. Members, the Chair has taken cognisance of the fact that Members have raised a very pertinent issue that when it comes to Conventions, we need to have enough time to read 5th July 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 53...

Hon. Charles Kamuren.

I hope you understand the rules of the House that you only have five minutes. It is only the Mover who has 20 minutes while everybody else has five minutes in this particular Motion. Proceed.

Let us have the Member of Parliament for Funyula followed by the Member for Dagoretti.

Order, Hon. Ochieng'.

Proceed. 4th July 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 23

Hon. John Kiarie.

For the benefit of Hon. Members, Hon. Chairman explain whether this treaty has come into force or not. The presumption by the Member for Funyula is that it will take three years, although the text says that you can pull out at any time. If it has already come into...

When a treaty is negotiated, it waits for a certain number of member states to ratify it before it comes into force globally. If that has already been done, do we still need an additional three years, if the nation wants to pull out?

Member for Funyula. It is important for Kenyans and other Members to understand exactly what we are debating.

Is it provided in our Constitution or the treaty? 4th July 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 25

Okay. Fair enough. Member for Kwanza.

Hon. (Dr) Nyikal.

Hon. Alice Ng’ang’a, followed by Hon. Memusi.

Hon. Memusi, Member for Kajiado Central.

Hon. Members, I wish to recognise, in the Speaker’s Gallery, the presence of Kenyans who live in the United States of America, who have come on a visit to their own motherland and want to see how this august institution is working. (Applause)

Member for Kibwezi West. Is Hon. Mutuse here? Let us have the Member for Marakwet West.

Hon. Timothy Kipchumba, do you want to be informed by Hon. K.J.?

Proceed, Hon. K.J.

Hon. Deputy Speaker, firstly, I congratulate the very able young legislators who are Chairs of the Budget and Appropriations Committee and the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning. They have done a fantastic job. I also congratulate a very old friend of mine, Hon. Mbadi, for giving a lot...

Hon. Members, the interest in this is wide spread. If it is by the leave of the House, we have only 5 minutes for every speaker. Hon. Omboko Milemba.

Member for Alego Usonga.

Hon. Bowen Kangogo.

Hon. Bady, Member for Changamwe.

Member for Kilifi North.

Member for Kacheliba, Hon. Lotee.

Hon. Member, your point is taken. The Speaker will act accordingly. Let us hear from Hon. Mbadi.

Hon. Mogaka, Member for West Mugirango.

Hon. Wanyonyi, Member for Kwanza.

Order, Hon. Kagombe! Your point is made. (Question, that the Mover be now called upon to reply, put and agreed to)

I do not think there is any need to ring the Bell. Order, Hon. Members, we have Quorum. (Question put and agreed to) (The Bill was read a Second Time and Committed to Committee of the whole House) THE COUNTY GOVERNMENTS ADDITIONAL ALLOCATION BILL Let us have Hon. Ndindi.

Proceed.

Order, Hon. Gogo. I appreciate your concerns, but the reduction on the time the Members would want to be allocated is a matter that can only be done by leave of the House. The Chair has little to do on it and this is at the beginning of it. The...

Hon. Mutunga of Tigania West.

Hon. Abdisirat Khalif.

Hon. (Dr) Makali, followed by Dr Gogo. Proceed, Hon. (Dr) Makali. Hon. Justice Kemei (Sigowet/Soin, UDA) : On point of order. What is your point of order?

Order, Hon. Justice Kemei. To begin with, you are not the first on this list now. There are people ahead of you. Secondly, you have to understand that the Chair exercises discretion on a number of divides. A House is many shades of opinion. There is political parties, regions and...

Hon. (Dr) Gogo.

Hon. Justice Keme followed by the Member of Parliament for Igembe Central. Where is the MP for Igembe Central? Okay, proceed Hon. Justice Kemei. Hon. Justice Kemei (Sigowet/Soin, UDA) : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me the opportunity you have given me. I want to say that I...

Member for Igembe Central.

Hon. Dorice Donya, the Women Representative for Kisii County, followed by the Member for Lagdera.

Hon. Abdikadir of Lagdera, the Women Representative for Bomet County and Hon. Murugara of Tharaka in that order. (Loud consultations) 22nd June 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 26

Hon. Murugara, are you speaking first? I thought I had given the chance to the Women Representative for Bomet County and then you will follow. Hon. Toto, kindly take the Floor; or you want to donate your chance to Hon. Murugara?

Hon. Murugara.

Order, you have been given an opportunity to contribute. You did not rise under Standing Order 95. Sit down. 22nd June 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 27

Hon. Mizighi.

You want the Mover to be called upon to reply. That is all. First of all, before I make a decision on that, I want to recognise the presence of Uthiru Genesis School in the Gallery. The school is from Kikuyu Constituency, which belongs to the Leader of the Majority...

Well noted.

Order! You do not say: “Order, Hon. Temporary Speaker”. (Laughter) 22nd June 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 28

Next Order. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE IN THE COMMITTEE THE SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (NO.2) BILL

Mover.

Proceed, Hon. Kawanjiku. (Hon. Njuguna Kawanjiku bowed)

Hon. Members, bowing is sufficient to demonstrate that you have seconded the Motion. You can have it both ways. Do not worry. (Question proposed) (Question put and agreed to) THE SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (NO.2) BILL

Proceed, Hon. Jayne Kihara. You can say a bit more. I know you wanted to say much more. Proceed and second the Motion.

I have confirmed that we have the requisite quorum. I will proceed to put the Question. 22nd June 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 36 THE SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (NO.2) BILL

Mover.

Proceed, Hon. Janet Sitienei.

Hon. Chairperson, proceed. CONSIDERATION OF REPORT ON THE EQUALISATION FUND APPROPRIATION BILL Hon. Chairman, proceed. Report to the House.

Mover.

Are you on a point of order? (Loud consultations)

What is out of order? 22nd June 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 38

You are out of order. This is not the place to deliberate on that one. (Laughter) (Loud consultations) THE EQUALISATION FUND APPROPRIATION BILL Mover.

Proceed.

Hon. Members, I have confirmed that we have quorum. (Question put and agreed to) (The Bill was accordingly read a Third Time and passed) CONSIDERATION OF REPORT ON THE COUNTY ALLOCATION OF REVENUE BILL 22nd June 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 39 (Senate Bill No.16 of 2023) The Chairperson to report...

Mover, Hon. Ndindi.

Hon. Mary Emaase. Kindly, give her the microphone. 22nd June 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 40

The tradition is that between the proposal and the putting of the Question, I should resume my seat and look at both sides. I do not know whether that tradition has changed in the last ten years I have been out of this House. (Question put and agreed to) (The...

Hon. Ruku, are you on a point of order or you want me to give you an opportunity to say something? (Hon. Ruku spoke off the record) Proceed and say something. However, it must have nothing to do with the business that we have already transacted.

Order, Hon. Ruku! You were supposed to do that during the general debate. Order, Hon. Members! Hon. Members, freeze. 22nd June 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 41 I also want to thank Hon. Members on behalf of the Chairperson's Panel for a very interesting debate that was clearly full of content....

Order, Hon. Members. It is not your discretion. It is the discretion of the Chair. Hon. Nyoro, proceed and have your two minutes.

Proceed.

The Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs, Hon. Gabriel Koshal Tongoyo.

Thank you. Member of Parliament for Uriri, Nyamita.

Member of Parliament for Molo, Hon. Kuria, who is also the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning.

The Woman Representative for

The Member for Tigania West, and the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock, Hon. John Mutunga.

Thank you. You have saved some few minutes. If Chairpersons do not utilise the entire 15 minutes that they are entitled to, and other Members also take less than the 10 minutes that they are entitled to, we will get many people to participate in this Motion. That is a...

No. Anyway, you are lucky you got it because I thought you were a farmer and you should weigh in a little bit. Right now, I am doing an intercession. Every time a chairperson contributes, I then give an opportunity to another Member. If you are a farmer, proceed. However,...

Member of Parliament for Ikolomani.

I must commend you for having been considerate of your colleagues by taking half of the time you were allocated. Hon. Ochanda, I hope you will do the same, I will go to the only lady who is a Chair. Unfortunately, there is no proper gender balance in the Chairs...

You have raised a very important thing. However, how is that a point of order? (Laughter)

The Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Social Protection, Hon. Wambui Ng'ang'a. If you take a few minutes as possible,

Hon. Ibrahim Saney take the least time so that Hon. Pukose can also weigh in. Proceed.

Order! Order! We have run out of time. You will still have another four minutes when we reconvene. It is my humble direction to whoever is going to be in the Chair to give Hon. Pukose the second chance when the House reconvenes. I understand you have been waiting the...

Hon. Temporary Speaker, at the outset, I want to thank the Cabinet Secretary for having taken a personal initiative in making sure that Wajir and Dadaab are catered for. I want to ask him in line with the overall Government policy of making sure that certain infrastructures are spread to...

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. What is out of order, Hon. Farah? I am seeking the indulgence of the House. You said that you would give the Cabinet Secretary five minutes. We have a lot of time up to 9.00 (Applause) Hon. Farah, is it your view...

On a point of order, Hon. Temporary Speaker. Hon. Farah Maalim, what is the point of order? I want to request that we allow the Cabinet Secretary to conclude. I will allow him to conclude, but we have a tradition in this House in the way we transact business. The...

You may proceed, Hon. Kihungi.

Order Hon Members. (Question proposed) Order Hon Members. We will now have the Member of Parliament for Soy.

Next is the Member of Parliament for Kesses, Hon. Julius Rutto.

Order, Hon. Shakeel Shabbir.

Order! That cannot be initiated by the Chair, but the Chair has the responsibility to look and see if there is sufficient quorum. The rules are very clear that you cannot pass a piece of legislation without… (Loud consultations)(Loud consultations)(Loud consultations) 3rd May 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 62 (Loud consultations)

Fair enough. Order! (Question, that the Mover be now called upon to reply, put and agreed to)

Order! (Question put and agreed to) Next Order. ADOPTION OF REPORT ON FINANCIAL STATEMENTS OF NG-CDF ACCOUNTS FOR CONSTITUENCIES IN THE COAST Committee on the consideration of the Reports of the Auditor-General on the (Loud consultations) Order, Hon. Members. Hon. Waqo was on the Floor. Hon. Naomi Waqo you have...

Serjeant-at-Arms, ring the Quorum 3rd May 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 63 Order, Hon. Members! You cannot leave when the bell is ringing. ADJOURNMENT You can switch off the Quorum Bell now because 10 minutes are over. Hon. Members, there being no quorum, under Standing Order No.35, the House has no...

Member for Teso South, Hon. Mary Emaase.

The Member for Mandera West will be followed by the Member for Tharaka.

We will have Hon. Gitonga Murugara followed by the Member for Emuhaya, Hon. Omboko Milemba.

Member of Parliament for Emuhaya followed by Hon. Phylis Bartoo, Member of Parliament for Moiben.

Member for Moiben constituency, Hon. Phylis Bartoo.

Order, Hon. Members. Who is the Hon. Member standing between the Hon. Member who is speaking and myself? The rules are… (Hon. Silvanus Osoro spoke off-record) Order, Hon. Silvanus Osoro! (Laughter)

Member for South Mugirango followed by the one for Lamu East.

You can generalise if you want, but do not go to specifics without the substantive Motion.

Hon. Ruweida, followed by Hon. Wakili Muriu.

Let us have Wakili Muriu followed by the Member for Mbeere North.

Order. Nobody can donate time. Member for Kitui Rural.

Order, Member for Kitui Rural. You will contribute after the Member for Mbeere North. There is no donation of time.

Member for Kitui Rural.

Let us have the Member of Parliament for Saku. He will be followed by the Member of Parliament for Ainabkoi.

The Member of Parliament for Ainabkoi. The Woman Representative for Kirinyaga, Hon. Njeri Maina, will follow.

Hon. Joshua Mwalyo, what is your point of order? 2nd May 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 32

Member for Ainabkoi you may proceed.

Next is Hon. Njeri Maina.

Hon. Makali Mulu, followed by Hon. Joshua Mwalyo.

Hon. Mwalyo.

Hon. Johana Ng’eno, followed by Hon. John Waluke.

Hon. Waluke followed by Hon. Wanjiku Muhia. 2nd May 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 38

Proceed Hon. Peter Kaluma. 27th April 2023 NATIONAL ASSEMBLY DEBATES 15

Hon. Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. Kajwang’, what is your point of order?

Order, Hon. Member. Can you wait for the Communication from the Chair? Under what Standing Order will you say he made a mistake? You bring a substantive Motion, if the person is a Member of Parliament.

Order, Hon. Members. The personalities or offices that you cannot discuss without a substantive Motion here are clearly spelt out in the Standing Orders. Unless they were changed for the period I was out of this House, I do not think what you are saying is correct. In the meantime,...

Order!

Leader of the Majority Party, I have put that to rest. I have said that your private matter cannot be discussed. Your public conduct can be discussed by this House, unless you are a Member of the House, other offices or a Head of State from another country. All of...

Order. (Hon. Rozaah Buyu spoke off-record) (Several Members interjected) Hon. Rozaah Buyu, you will have your moment to contribute. Can you hold your horses, until you have your chance? Order, Hon. Members. When you say that you want the accuracy of his contribution, you have to substantiate its inaccuracy. In...

Hon. Rozaah Buyu followed by Hon. Cynthia Muge. (Hon. Rozaah Buyu spoke off-record) Can you give the microphone to Hon. Rozaah Buyu? You do not have a card? Okay. Give her the microphone.

Hon. Muge Cynthia followed by Hon. Jessica Mbalu.

Hon. Jessica Mbalu followed by the Member for Mosop, Hon. Abraham Kirwa.

Hon. Abraham Kirwa followed by Hon. Wanjiku Muhia.

Hon. Wanjiku Muhia, I think you are going to have another shot another time. For now, it is Hon. Caroline Ng’elechei, Woman Representative for Elgeyo Marakwet County.

Hon. Onyango K’oyoo, Member of Parliament for Muhoroni.

The Member of Parliament from Mbeere North, Hon. Ruku, followed by Hon. Catherine Omanyo.

The Member for Busia County, Hon. Omanyo.

Member for Turkana East, Hon. Nicholas Ngikolong, followed by the Majority Party Whip, Hon. Osoro.

Order, Hon. Wanjiku Muhia. He has the right to express his opinion.

The Majority Party Whip, Hon. Silvanus Osoro.

Next is the Member for Kangema.

Order! Order! You are out of order, the Member for Kangema. Proceed the Member for Juja. Give the microphone to the Member for Juja. Hon. George Koimburi, proceed. What happened to the microphone? Okay, now you have it.

Order! Order! You are out of order. Member for Dagoretti North.

The Member for Kipipiri, Hon. Wanjiku Muhia, what is your point of order?

Is that the mood of the House?

I call upon the Mover to reply. (Loud consultations)

Next Order. NOTING OF REPORT OF THE KENYAN DELEGATION TO THE 1ST ORDINARY SITTING OF THE 6TH PAN-AFRICAN PARLIAMENT A Member of the Pan-African Parliament (PAP) . Hon. Wanjiku Muhia, who is moving this Motion? No, it is resumption of debate. Proceed, Hon. Wanjiku Muhia.