Kaluma George Peter Opondo

Hon. Temporary Speaker, I beg to report that the Committee of the whole House has considered the Start-up Bill, (Senate Bill No. 14 of 2022) up to Clause 27, and approved the same with amendments, and seeks leave to sit again.

The Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs.

Hon. Members, you have a maximum of ten minutes to contribute, but because of time and interest, we could reduce it a bit. If you can finish early, do so. Chairman, Select Committee on the National Government Constituencies Development Fund. (Hon. Raphael Wanjala stood up in his place) Hon. Wanjala,...

Thank you, Hon. Musa Sirma. Let us constrict this to three minutes. Hon. Mule Stephen, you may proceed because you had a similar proposal earlier.

Let us hear from Hon. Millie Odhiambo, the Whip of the Minority Party, because of her position and rank.

Let us hear Hon. Raphael Wanjala because of his status and rank.

Thank you. Hon. Pukose, the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Health.

Hon. Gichimu will be followed by Hon. (Dr) James Nyikal, and then Hon. Caroli Omondi.

Hon. James Wambura Nyikal.

Hon. Caroli Omondi.

Hon. Lydia Mizighi, Member of Parliament for Taita Taveta County.

Hon. Adan Keynan will be followed by Hon. Naomi Waqo, and then Hon. Anthony Oluoch.

Hon. Naomi Waqo.

I pronounced myself on who speaks next. Hon. Anthony Oluoch.

Hon. Alice Ng’ang’a will be followed by Hon. Mwashako, and then Hon. Peter Salasya.

Hon. Mwashako.

Hon. Peter Salasya was to speak next.

Thank you, Hon. Salasya. Hon. Johana Ng’eno, you have the Floor. He would be followed by Hon. Mary Emaase, Hon. Paul Mwirigi, Hon. Robert Basil and Hon. Thuku Kwenya in that order. (Hon. Mary Emaase spoke off the record) Hon. Johana Ng’eno came before you.

Hon. Mary Emaase.

Hon. Paul Mwirigi

Hon. Robert Basil:

Hon. Thuku Kwenya.

Hon. (Dr) Wilberforce Oundo.

Hon. John Kawanjiku.

Hon. Joseph Oyula.

Hon. Jessica Mbalu.

Your time is up. Hon. Jackson. (Hon. Jessica Mbalu spoke off the record) Give her 30 seconds. It seems as though power has gone, or is it the information, communication and technology (ICT) system?

Bishop Jackson Kosgei.

Hon. Mulanya Geoffrey.

Hon. Sabina Chege.

Hon. Francis Sigei, then Hon. Jematiah.

Hon. Jematiah.

Hon. Clive Gisairo.

Hon. Rahab Mukami will be followed by Hon. Paul Biego, Hon. Joseph Lelmengit and then Hon. Timothy Toroitich who will contribute in one minute each.

Next is Hon. Paul Biego.

Hon. Josses Lelmengit.

Verbatim text unavailable — read this contribution in the official Hansard.

The time has been short, Hon. Members, for us to adequately speak to the matter but, as and when it matures, we will have all the time to debate it. Let me, on behalf of the Speaker and the leadership of Parliament, commend and thank all of you for the...

We will start with the Business Laws (Amendment) Bill (National Assembly Bill No.49 of 2024) . Chairperson.

Mover, move agreement with the report.

Hon. Junet Mohamed.

Is it the mood of the House that I put the Question?

Mover to move Third Reading.

Hon. Eric Wamumbi.

I have confirmed that we have the numbers in the House. It is properly constituted for purposes of making a decision. (Question put and agreed to) (The Bill was accordingly read a Third Time and passed) CONSIDERATION OF REPORT ON THE TAX LAWS (AMENDMENT) BILL Chairman.

Mover.

Hon. Junet Mohamed.

Is it the mood of the House that I put the question?

Mover to move Third Reading.

Hon. (Prof.) Phylis Bartoo to second.

Thank you, Hon. Phylis Bartoo. (Question proposed) Is it the mood of the House that I put the Question?

Hon. Leader of the Minority Party, I do not know who can say it better than you. Let us have the Leader of the Majority Party.

The Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning, Hon. Kimani Kuria.

Is it the mood of the House that I put the Question? (Loud consultations)

Hon. Members, I now put the Question. Before I do so, I have confirmed that we have Quorum present in the House for purposes of making a decision. (Question put and agreed to) (Applause) Next Order. ADOPTION OF REPORT ON INQUIRY INTO ALLEGED UNFAIR TRADE PRACTICES BY FOREIGN INVESTORS IN...

For the convenience of the House, I will defer the putting of the Question to a future date. (Putting of the Question deferred) Next Order. ADOPTION OF REPORT ON FINANCIAL STATEMENTS OF STATE CORPORATIONS (NYANZA REGION) FOR 2018/2019, 2019/2020 AND 2020/2021

Chairperson, Public Investments Committee on Governance and Education, Hon. Wamboka, it is always very refreshing to listen to you. You are commended for the passion you demonstrate in executing the mandate of your Committee on behalf of your members.

Thank you for bringing your courage and competencies to bear on the work of the House. For the convenience of the House, the question to the Motion appearing under Order No.13 will be put in future. (Putting of the question deferred) Next order. THE EQUALISATION FUND (ADMINISTRATION) BILL (Bill deferred)Do...

The Mover of the Public Finance Management (Amendment) Bill, Hon (Dr) Naomi Waqo, proceed.

Leader of the Majority Party.

Hon. (Dr) Wilberforce Oundo.

Hon. Innocent Mugabe. He requested to speak on another matter. Hon. Caroli Omondi, do you want to speak to this Bill? Hon. Irene Mayaka will be the last one.

Chairman, Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning. Hon. Kuria Kimani (Molo, UDA) Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. The Public Finance Management (Amendment) Bill, sponsored by the Leader of the Majority Party in the House, was referred to our Committee. As Hon. Irene Mayaka has said, we conducted public participation...

There being no more interest, the Mover may reply. Hon. Robert Mbui, I am very sorry. The Mover, how long are you going to speak? You could donate half of your time to Hon. Mbui.

Two minutes would be limited. Could you leave at least five? Hon. Mbui wanted to talk. (Hon. Robert Mbui spoke off the record) Whether you agree or oppose, I take your contribution to the House very seriously. That is why I was seeking indulgence for you. You can do it...

Mover.

The question to this particular Bill will be put in future for the convenience of the House. (Putting of the Question deferred) Next Order. Second Reading THE PUBLIC FINANCE MANAGEMENT (AMENDMENT) (NO. 4) BILL Hon. Robert Mbui, approach the Speaker first. Mover, proceed.

The Member for Molo.

Hon. Robert Mbui.

Member of Parliament for Tetu.

Hon. Wilberforce Oundo.

Hon. Kitur, that mentorship has been great. I have never listened to you enlighten the House the way you have done today. Congratulations. Hon. Robert Mbui.

Hon. Beatrice Adagala, Member of Parliament for Vihiga County.

Hon. Dorothy Ikiara.

Hon. Dorothy Ikiara, do you want to be informed by Hon. Kimani?

Hon. Farah Maalim, because of your ranking in the House, you can have the Floor.

Hon. Timothy Toroitich, who will be followed by Hon. Makilap, then Hon. Sabina Chege.

Hon. Timothy, your time will be held. I will add you time because you note that the matters you are talking to as a lawyer are very serious. Hon. Kimani Kuria is taking them seriously. This is a matter of procurement or asset disposal. I think there was a good...

Thank you, Hon. Timothy Kipchumba, for those enlightening submissions. Hon. Kimani Kuria, you should be preparing to reply. As you do so, I want you to look at Clause 11 (a) and (b) that Hon. Timothy Kipchumba has spoken to. More so 11 (b) . How would it matter that...

Hon. Makilap, you have ended it at a very good note, you cannot say more. Hon. Sabina Chege.

Hon. Julius Rutto will have five minutes then the Mover will reply.

Mover, you do not need to use the 10 minutes to reply. Can you make your reply as brief as possible so that we can move to the next business?

The putting of the Question on the Bill will be done at a future date for the convenience of the House. (Putting of the Question deferred) Next Order. Second Reading THE UNCLAIMED FINANCIAL ASSETS (AMENDMENT) BILL

Hon. Timothy Toroitich.

Hon. Kimani Kuria.

Hon. John Gitonga.

Hon. Julius Rutto will suffer the fate of doing under five minutes.

No problem. It was not for you to answer. There is no interest. The Mover can reply. You may donate some time.

Next Order. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE [The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) left the Chair] IN THE COMMITTEE [The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Peter Kaluma) in the Chair] THE ETHICS AND ANTI-CORRUPTION COMMISSION (AMENDMENT) BILL

Hon. Oundo.

Hon. Chairperson.

Hon. Sabina Chege.

Thank you, Hon. Sabina Chege. (Question proposed) For the convenience of the House, the other matters relevant to these Bills will be addressed in future. (Putting of the Question deferred) Next Order. THE LAND CONTROL BILL Hon. John Gitonga, do you want to speak to this Bill? Hon. Sabina Chege.

Is that Hon. Julius Rutto? Hon. Timothy Toroitich, Leader of the Majority Party takes precedence.

Order, Hon. Timothy Toroitich. Take your seat. You need all the time to prepare. Leader of the Majority Party takes precedence over you. Leader of the Majority Party, proceed.

Hon. Timothy Toroitich you may proceed. Hon. Timothy Kipchumba (Marakwet West, Independent) : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I want to thank Hon. Wilberforce Oundo for this very progressive Bill. Lawyers in this country will celebrate. If you look at the Land Control Act passed in 1967 it has many...

The Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs, Hon. Gabriel Tongoyo.

Hon. Makilap.

Hon. Julius Rutto.

Lastly, Senior Counsel Wakili Muriu.

I get you, Hon. Tongoyo, but I can neither place your contribution as a point of order nor a point of information. The Mover to reply in less than one minute.

We have had a very busy day as Members of the National Assembly this afternoon. I believe we have gone through the Second Reading and other businesses in a very good way. I thank all the Members for that. Let us be upstanding. ADJOURNMENT Hon. Members, the time being 9.01

Hon. Chairlady, we have been in this Parliament long enough to know when clauses are being proposed to give specific or unnamed people jobs. (Applause)

So that we may not delay, failure to give information is what we call a misdemeanour in law. It is not a serious offence. It is not a felony. It is not the kind of offence whose punishment should go beyond three months. It is a failure to give information....

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I am always sympathetic to my friend, the Hon. Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture. This particular provision creates an offence for protection, essentially, of intellectual property in research of the Institute. I do not know whether the Hon. Chairman agrees. If we agree, Hon. Chairman,...

On a point of order, Hon. Chairlady. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai) : Hon. Kaluma, what is out of Order? I thought the intervention that Hon. Cynthia Muge was seeking was that the Clerks prepare for her the re-committal because we are proceeding towards the end. The Temporary...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, I have a problem with what the Mover may want to achieve in the sense that consultation does not mean concurrence. If we are seeking concurrence, the Mover should think of a word that would secure that. Otherwise, we will have a situation where we are just...

Hon. Temporary Chairlady, Hon. Oundo has mentioned my name in relation to some parts of my body. He says some are small and others big. (Laughter)

Hon. Temporary Chairlady you are very right. The Temporary Chairlady (Hon. (Dr) Rachael Nyamai) : The Chairman’s amendment has a definition. What should happen is that there it appears to have an agreement on the proposal by Hon. Gichimu, thus the procedural thing to do is to put the Question...

Can the Mover, the Chairperson and Hon. Cynthia Muge approach the Speaker’s Chair. The Leader of the Majority Party may also do so. I am requesting the Leader of the Majority Party and the two Members that are requesting for a recommittal to approach the Speaker’s Chair. CONSIDERATION OF REPORT...

The Mover.

Hon. Mutunga.

Hon. Majimbo Kalasinga.

Order, Hon. Members. The time being

Chairperson.

Mover.

For the convenience of the House, the Question on this particular Bill will be put the next time it will be scheduled for consideration by the House Business Committee (HBC) . (Putting of the Question deferred) CONSIDERATION OF REPORT ON THE COFFEE BILL

Mover.

Is it the mood of the House that I put the Question? (Question proposed) (Question put and agreed to) ADJOURNMENT Order, Hon. Members, The time being 7.05 p.m., the House stands adjourned until Tuesday, 19th November 2024 at

Mover.

Hon. Dr Pukose.

Hon. Beatrice Elachi, you want to speak on this?

Hon. David Bowen.

The Adjournment Motion was being brought by which Member of the House? (Hon. Kangogo Bowen spoke off record) Hon. (Dr) Lilian Gogo, could you approach the Speaker? (Hon. (Dr) Lilian Gogo consulted with the Temporary Speaker) (Question put and agreed to) This is the ruling I will make with regard...

Chairman of the Committee.

The Mover to move agreement with the report.

It is good to be an experienced Leader of the Majority Party. Hon. Karemba is now an old hand in parliamentary procedure. (Question proposed) Hon. Millie Odhiambo, Whip of the Minority Party, do you want to speak to this one? (Hon. Millie Odhiambo-Mabona spoke off the record) Yes, Leader of...

Under our Standing Orders, MOTION OF ADJOURNMENT ON A MATTER OF URGENT NATIONAL IMPORTANCE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE SOCIAL HEALTH INSURANCE FUND

Hon. (Dr) Lilian Gogo, would you first move just to the extent possible? I know the Motion is in terms of what was approved. You do not have to read the whole of it. If you can, pick certain items so that you move faster.

Yes, proceed. You had moved. Maybe, I should clarify to Hon. Members from the beginning. Hon. (Dr) Lilian Gogo, you have 10 minutes. Under the Standing Orders, all other Members have not more than five minutes. Proceed.

The Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Health, Hon. (Dr) Pukose.

Hon. (Dr) James Nyikal.

The Leader of the Majority Party, because of the precedence.

Thank you, Leader of the Majority Party. Hon. Andrew Okuome, the Minority Whip will take precedence over you. For the avoidance of doubt, Hon. Millie will always speak before you whenever she wants.

I have not recognised you.

Hon. Caroli Omondi.

Hon. Gathoni Wamuchomba.

Hon. Sabina Chege. Because of the limited debate time, let us avoid points of order so that we tell Kenyans what to do.

Hon. Mary Emaase.

Hon. Sarah Korere.

Hon. Beatrice Elachi. (Loud consultations)

Hon. Guyo Jaldesa.

Hon. Gideon Ochanda.

Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu.

Hon. Irene Mayaka will be followed by Hon. Andrew Okuome.

Hon. Andrew Okuome.

Hon. Andrew Okuome, your time is up. Hon. Wilberforce Oundo, in two minutes.

The last person is Hon. Eric Muchangi.

Hon. (Dr) Eve Obara make your contribution in two minutes.

Order, Hon. Members. The interest on matters health and education is usually big. I thank you for the interest shown. I believe that this matter can be addressed through other forums and procedures within the Assembly so that the thoughts around holding a Kamukunji and other processes can help us...

Hon. (Dr) Makali Mulu.

Hon. Irene Mayaka.

Thank you, Hon. Irene Mayaka. Hon. Beatrice Elachi.

Hon. John Kawanjiku.

Hon. Joshua Kimilu, Member of Parliament for Kaiti.

The Vice-Chair of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs, Hon. Dido Raso.

Hon. Japheth Nyakundi.

Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Education, Hon. Julius Melly.

Verbatim text unavailable — read this contribution in the official Hansard.

Hon. Members, on behalf of the Speaker of the National Assembly, the Right Hon. Moses Masika Wetang’ula, together with the tributes already registered by the Members who have spoken, we condole with the families of these two Kenyan patriots: Hon. Suleiman Kasuti Murunga and Mr Austin Oduor Origi. They contributed,...

Hon. Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs, Hon. Dido Raso.

Hon. Marianne Kitany.

Hon. Josses Lelmengit has just told me this is a lady from his constituency, but she was murdered in your constituency. I have told him that in terms of procedure, it will be better we wait for the Statement to come from the relevant agency so that we can engage...

Member for Emgwen, what is burning so much?

The Statement will be given in two weeks’ time, through the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Administration and Internal Affairs. Hon. Irene Mayaka. RECOGNITION OF HON. HULDA MOMANYI HITSLEY

I will allow a few Hon. Members to record their recognition, appreciation and congratulations for this great achievement by a Kenyan-born living in the USA. She is Kenyan. Next is the Minority Whip, Hon. Millie Odhiambo-Mabona.

Our Minority Whip is so learned and widely gifted. Next is Hon. Sylvanus Osoro, the Majority Whip.

Thank you. Next is Hon. Donya Dorice. Hon. Dorice Donya (Kisii County, WDM) . Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. For clarity, it is good to be proud of your accent. Huldah Momanyi is Omogusii and was born in Nyamira. Hitsley is the name of her husband. She reminds me of...

Thank you, Chair of the Budget Appropriations Committee. Hon. Jerusha Momanyi.

Yes, Hon. Osoro. Hon. Silvanus Osoro (South Mugirango, UDA) : Thank you, Hon. Temporary Speaker. I really appreciate the ownership of that great name “Momanyi” by Hon. Jerusha. However, is she in order to say that they share the parents with Hon. Huldah? I doubt it. What I know is...

Hon. Antoney Kibagendi.

Hon. Beatrice Elachi.

Hon. Japheth Nyakundi.

Hon. Catherine Omanyo.

Hon. Osoro, what is out of order?

Take your seat, Hon. Omanyo.

The policy of President Trump is to deport illegal immigrants, not all immigrants. Least of all, no president of the United States can deport a lawful citizen of the United States of America.

The Whip of the Minority Party, the nature of this engagement does not allow any more points of order. Hon. Dido Russell, you want to say something in recognition of this excellence?

Yes, because Hon. Chepkonga is engaged, I want to give… Do so in the shortest time possible. After that, we are going to the Statement by Hon. Mulyungi.

Could that Member have the courage to stand when the Speaker is up and say so? The Speaker is never biased. The Speaker is an impartial, neutral presiding officer of the House. (Loud consultations)

Give Hon. Chepkonga one more minute. I know he was easily distracted by the Chief Whip of the Minority Party.

I want us to go to the Statement by Hon. Owen. Hon. Owen, we now want to consider the main business. When you stand as the Deputy Leader of the Majority Party, the Speaker faces difficulties getting you to sit down. Can you give your Statement in no more than...

Hon. Owen Baya, take your seat.

Deputy Leader of the Majority Party, I know you want to withdraw that part of your Statement. It is a big achievement for an immigrant.

Hon. Members, we are recording our compliments to a Kenyan who has won an election. We are not here to diagnose the policies of the Democrats and the Republicans. You know how to approach that matter if you want to go in that direction. Let us have Hon. Mulyungi. REQUEST...

Chairperson of the relevant

Two weeks, Hon. Mulyungi?

That is fine. Relay the Message and let us have the response in two weeks.

Thank you. The Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Defence, Intelligence and Foreign Relations is to respond to the Statement request by Hon. Catherine Omanyo. Hon. Kirima, do you have the response?

Give Hon. Kirima the microphone. HARASSMENT OF KENYAN FISHERMEN IN LAKE VICTORIA

Hon. Catherine Omanyo.

Hon. Catherine Omanyo. (Hon. Joseph Makilap rose in his place and spoke off the record)

Hon. Makilap, when you stand on a point of order and are not recognised, you return to your seat and remain silent because it would be disorderly if you continue in that manner.

Hon. Millie Odhiambo, I know matters Blue Economy will not pass your attention.

Member of Parliament for Funyula Constituency.

Hon. Kirima, your responses appear satisfactory. If there are any more inquiries, investigations or engagements that Hon. Members want on the matter, the Committee can move with them suo moto, and you will still retain the mandate. Thank you very much. Hon. Members, I want us to go to the...

Next order. The Speaker is able to notice if there is a matter of concern for every Hon. Member. Thank you, Hon. TJ Kajwang'. Clerks-at-the-Table, can you call the next order? THE KENYA ROADS BOARD (AMENDMENT) BILL

Could the Members who want to speak go to intervention so that we can easily separate them from the other Members? The Whip of the Minority Party.

Hon. Members, this is a very straightforward one. I thought we should be concluding in less than ten minutes. Who wants to speak? We should be done with this one as fast as possible. The Hon. Mwashako.

The Hon. Eric Muchangi.

Hon. Makilap.

Thank you, Hon. Makilap. Hon. Rindikiri Mugambi. He will be followed by Hon. Gichimu who will be the last to contribute before the Mover replies.

Thank you. Hon. Members, there are two proposed amendments to this Bill. One is replacing the word ‘Minister’ with ‘Cabinet Secretary’ and the other is a single amendment to Section 7. I do not know why you are debating for too long. Hon. Gichimu make your contribution as brief as...

There being no more interest, I now call upon the Mover to reply.

For the convenience of the House, the question to this Bill will be put the next time it will be scheduled to be transacted by the House Business Committee. (Putting of the Question deferred) Next order. APPROVAL OF THE MEDIATED VERSION OF THE NATIONAL RATING BILL (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY BILL NO.55...

Hon. George Ndung’u, to second.

Hon. (Dr) Wilberforce Oundo.

Does Hon. Cynthia Muge want to contribute to this? Give her the mic.

Hon. Cynthia Muge, thank you for that eloquent contribution. However, you have answered one limb of the issues that Dr Wilberforce Oundo, a known expert in this area, was raising. The other part is still remaining. If I heard him clearly, he is asking whether the National Assembly could be...

Thank you very much. Let us have Hon. Rindikiri Mugambi.

Hon. Geoffrey Ruku, Member for Mbeere North, do you want to contribute to this?

You are in line for the next issue. Certainly not on this one. There being no further interest, I call upon the mover to reply.

The Chairperson Mediation Committee on the National Rating Bill, let me start by commending you for representing the

You mentioned Standing Order 35 on the matter of quorum. Alright, ring the quorum bell for 10 minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) Could the Deputy Whip of the Majority Party and Hon. (Dr) Oundo approach the Hon. Temporary Speaker? (Hon. Owen Baya, Hon. Naomi Waqo, Hon. (Dr) Ojiambo Oundo...

Hon. Charles Nguna, I want to recognise the students at the Speaker's Gallery, but why are you so excited? You keep punching the air. What is the matter?

Very interesting. (Hon. John Kiarie spoke off the record) I see the Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Communication, Information and Innovation contesting. Hon. Members, I wish to recognise 19 students from Starehe Boys’ Centre and Regis Runda Academy, who are seated at the Speaker's Gallery. The students from Starehe...

Hon. Gideon Kimaiyo.

Hon. Makali Mulu, because of rank. Have you spoken to this matter?

Hon. Members, we barely have 16 minutes to the end of this debate. I ask the Members who will get a chance to speak, to just make their point on this matter. I know I cannot reduce the speaking time at this stage, but just conscript so that as many...

Hon. Yegon, can you do two or three minutes so that we give an opportunity to as many Members as possible?

Deputy Leader of the Majority Party.

The Member for Suba South.

Hon. Kawanjiku, contribute for two minutes.

Hon. Moses Injendi, contribute for two minutes. I have two minutes to close debate on this Motion.

The Member for Igembe North, Hon. Taitumu.

I will give this chance to Hon. Wamboka. He will be followed by Hon. Kakai Bisau. Each Member will contribute for one minute.

Hon. Kakai Bisau, under Standing Order 1 for a minute.

Can the Mover reply? The Mover has informed the House that she is out of the country on parliamentary duties. She will reply the next time this Motion is scheduled for debate. Hon. Members, the interest is appreciated. Although, once the time allocated comes to an end, the Speaker can...

Hon. Members, the Motion under Order No.10 is a Bill which went for winnowing. So, the amendments by the departmental committee are essentially agreed. I want to know how many Hon. Members are interested in Order No.9 so I can determine whether to alter the Order Paper or allow it,...

The Member for North Imenti, Hon. Rahim Dawood.

Is Hon. Adan Haji interested in this one? What about Hon. Joseph Makilap and Hon. Ruweida Obo? Hon. Beatrice Elachi, do you want to speak to this one? Please do. I see only three Members who are interested. Let us make the point so that the Mover can reply very...

Hon. Kawanjiku.

Member for Igembe Central, Hon. Daniel Karitho.

Hon. Dorothy Ikiara, use the shortest time possible. You will be followed by Hon. Florence Jematiah then I will call the Mover to reply.

The Member of Parliament for Baringo County, Hon. Jematiah.

Hon. Owen Baya, Deputy Leader of the Majority Party. He will be followed by the Whip of the Minority Party then the Mover will reply.

Hon. Owen Baya, I will engage with you as a social scientist after this. I know you are a Fulbright Scholar. The best lawyer we have, Lord Denning, was a mathematician. Yours truly here is a very good scientist.

I have seen new interest from Hon. Edith Nyenze. Could she speak before the Mover replies? She will be followed by Hon. Basil. I thought we agreed we should be winding up this quickly. We want to go to the Committee of the whole House. Proceed, Hon. Edith Nyenze.

Hon. Robert Basil, Member of Parliament for (Technical hitch) .

The Member of Parliament for Kajiado East, Hon. Kakuta Maimai.

Hon. Beatrice Kemei.

Lastly, the Whip of the Majority Party in the shortest time possible. Mover, prepare to reply.

Hon. Millie Odhiambo, I thought Hon. Osoro was saying that he did not quite understand the policies of “Vice-President”, Kamala Harris, whom you are supporting, and not that she is a woman. (Hon. Millie Odhiambo-Mabona spoke off the record) Hon. Osoro, proceed to conclude.

Mover to reply.

Hon. Dick Maungu.

Hon. Gichimu, Senior Counsel.

Hon. KJ, reply in the shortest time possible. Hon. John Kiarie (Dagoretti South, UDA) Hon. Temporary Speaker, I want to thank you and all the Members who have spoken on this Motion, starting with the Members who spoke on the 3rd of October and the Members who have contributed this...

Hon. Temporary Chairman, so that we move expeditiously, may I also inform the House that all my amendments went through winnowing, and I agreed to withdraw them. I, therefore, withdraw them. We need to expeditiously move the Chairperson’s harmonised amendments.(Proposed amendments by Hon. Peter Kaluma withdrawn) I also thank the...

She may inform me. (Laughter)

Hon. Temporary Chairman, the point I am making is that all my amendments in the Order Paper, for purposes of clarity and expedition, are hereby formally withdrawn, so that we can move past this level. (Proposed amendments by Hon. Peter Kaluma withdrawn) The Temporary Chairman (Hon. Omboko Milemba) : Thank...

Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs.

I have not allowed you to speak. It takes the Speaker to recognise you. When the Speaker does not allow you and you insist, you become disorderly and it may cost your presence this afternoon. So, you are not yet recognised. Let Hon. Murugara proceed.

Hon. Kimani Kuria, you want to speak to this? I hope you are not laying. (Hon. Kimani Kuria spoke off the record) Okay.

I will only give two more Members the opportunity to comment and then we can go back to the main business. The Hon. Deputy Leader of the Majority Party followed by Hon. Beatrice Elachi.

Hon. Members who are leaving, I request for your patience because we need your numbers in Order No.8. Remember, we altered the order of business to await some good numbers. So, I request that we allow Hon. Beatrice Elachi to say something on this, and then we go back to...

Hon. Eckomas Mwengi Mutuse.

Hon. Members, I think we will allow the Members who have spoken on the matter to have done so on behalf of the whole House. Call Order 8. CONSIDERATION OF REPORT ON THE KENYA DRUGS AUTHORITY BILL Order, Hon. Members. I will proceed to put the Question. THAT, this House...

Hon. Raphael Wanjala, the Chairperson, Select Committee on Implementation, if you intend to donate some of your minutes, you do so before you reply. Unfortunately, those Members have now been overtaken. Therefore, go ahead and just reply.

We had re-organised the Order Paper. Could you now go back to Order 7? We pended the laying of Papers and some Statements. Chairperson, Departmental Committee on Finance and National Planning.

Thank you very much. Please, go ahead and lay the Paper. (Hon. Kuria Kimani laid the Paper on the Table) STATEMENTS Hon. Peter Francis Masara, Member for Suna West. DEMISE OF VETERAN MUSICIAN, PRINCESS JULIE

Leader of the Minority Party.

Thank you, Hon. Peter Masara, for your Statement, and thank you Leader of the Minority Party for your recognition of the late Princess Jully. On behalf of the National Assembly, we record our condolences and pray for God’s comfort and strength to the family of Princess Jully. Hon. Julius Sunkuli....

Is the relevant Committee Chair in the House? The Hon. Gabriel Tongoyo is not there. The able Vice-Chair, Hon. Dido Raso, is present. Would you commit on when you can give the statement?

Hon. Julius Sunkuli, are you satisfied with the commitment? No doubt.

Thank you for indulging the Committee to that extent. I will go back to the Order Paper. There was a response to the statement requested by Hon. Mohamed Adow. The Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock, do you have the response? Is the Chair or Vice-Chair in...

Is Hon. Mohammed Adow in the House? That is good then. We have a response to his request of Statement. STATEMENTS STATUS OF STRATEGIC PROMOTION AND DEVELOPMENT OF DRY LAND AGRICULTURE IN KENYA

Hon. Mohammed Adow.

Hon. Dido Raso.

Hon. (Prof.) Jaldesa.

Hon. Mathenge, that is a point of argument. You should ask for an opportunity to tell us about how those regions could be affected. Can you be done?

Order. What is happening between the Members of Parliament from Meru County and the Members of Parliament from the ASAL areas? Let us allow each one of us to make their contributions. That is how we sustain a good debate. Hon. Jaldesa, be done.

Order, Hon. Rindikiri. Hon. Rindikiri, you are running afoul of our Standing Orders. You can consult at a tone that allows us to debate. Be done, Hon. Jaldesa.

Do not be bowed or cowed. I was personally asking myself why Homa Bay Town Constituency is getting Ksh6 million from the Equalisation Fund. So, do not be worried. Make your points because when you make them, Members can resolve better for the good of the entire country.

Before we give final directions, let me allow Hon. Keynan, because of rank, and Hon. Beatrice Elachi, to tell us how Nairobi is an ASAL.

Hon. Omboko, that is a point of argument. I will give you a chance to give us further perspectives. Hon. Keynan.

Hon. Beatrice Elachi.

This was a request for a statement. We neither require support nor opposition to it. We have done enough with it. Hon. Sarah Korere, what is burning so much? I have only allowed this debate because the matter is important. However, I want to give directions on it. I have...

Hon. (Dr) Jackson Kosgei

Hon. Members, we have other statements to deal with. This was not a call for debate. I want to give directions which will enable us to participate better and come up with a more workable solution. I know Hon. Oluoch wants to speak about Mathare North as an ASAL. Hon....

Is Hon. Robert Gichimu in the House?

Hon. Rindikiri, be assured that if you have something to talk about this, you are duly recognised. Proceed.

As a Committee, you can move faster and call the Cabinet Secretary. Just ensure that the interests of the Members that have been put forth are duly catered for.

Hon. Brighton, why can you not go to the specifics in terms of the statement requested? I was in a Parliament, Hon. Members, in the Philippines, and where a report or a statement has been given to the Members seeking it and they are satisfied, it is just passed. Where...

Hon. Robert Gichimu is no doubt satisfied.

Thank you, Hon. Robert Gichimu. The Hon. Vice-Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock, do you have the response for Hon. Sarah Korere? LEASE OF AGRICULTURAL DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION LAND IN RUMURUTI

Hon. Sarah Korere. Hon. Sarah Korere (Laikipia North, JP) : Thank you. I want to thank the Vice-Chair of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock for attempting to respond to the statement request. However, again, it goes without saying that the response is shallow and annoying. This is because...

It is not necessary. Take it up on your own Motion. You know the inadequacies of statements but, ultimately, we are resolving issues of concern to Kenyans, whom we represent here. So, take up the matter. Invite Hon. Sarah Korere, invite the sectoral heads and the Cabinet Secretary involved. You...

Hon. Brighton Yegon, do you now see the reason as to why I said you should come up with a report to be debated in this House? If knowledgeable persons like Hon. Caroli Omondi do not come to the Committee, they can speak to whatever report you will bring to...

I can assure you that these are not matters where I can permit you to deal with us the way you used to when you were a Commissioner. (Laughter) COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE HOUSE [The Temporary Speaker (Hon. Peter Kaluma) left the Chair] IN THE COMMITTEE [The Temporary Chairman (Hon....

Hon. Temporary Chairman.

The Mover to move agreement with the Report.

Whip of the Majority Party.

For the convenience of the House, I will defer putting of the Question on the matter to a future date. (Putting of the Question deferred) Next Order. THE HIGHER EDUCATION LOANS BOARD (AMENDMENT) BILL (Bill deferred)Is Hon. Kamene, Member for Machakos County, in the House to move the Bill? We...

Thank you very much. Hon. Rindikiri Mugambi, do you want to contribute to this?

Next is Hon. Francis Sigei, Member for Sotik.

(Bill deferred)In ordinary circumstances, I would have called the Mover to reply, but this particular Bill is very critical. I, therefore, defer further debate on it to a future date. Call the next Order. ADOPTION OF SECOND REPORT ON EMPLOYMENT DIVERSITY AUDIT IN PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS

Hon. Liza Chelule.

Given that there is no more interest in this particular Motion, I call upon the Mover… Hon. Rindikiri Mugambi, do you want to speak to this? Proceed.

Hon. Rindikiri Mugambi, you are done. Do you want to be informed? In fact, that question does not arise because you have ended your contribution. Hon. Duncan Mathenge, Member for Nyeri Town, do you want to contribute to this Motion?

Hon. Kakai Bisau, you cannot inform a Member who has ended their contribution. I wish you intervened before he confirmed he had finished making his contribution. Secondly, you can also not inform him when he does not agree to be informed. He cannot agree because he has ended his contribution....

Hon. Johana Ng'eno, Chairman of the Departmental Committee on Housing, Urban Planning and Public Works. (Hon. Wanami Wamboka spoke off the record)

Mover, please reply now.

A matter arose yesterday during debate. This had something to do with the business Parliament transacted around the Motion. Do you remember the matter of the Kenya Revenue Authority (KRA) officers? You remember the Cabinet Secretary was privileged to answer in Parliament. Yesterday, it was alleged that the matter went...

Thank you very much, Chair. Thank you for a very good Report that has been well-presented before the Floor by your Committee and yourself on their behalf. Next Order. Before I call for the next Order… (The Temporary Speaker consulted with the Clerk-at-the-Table) Hon. Chairman of the Committee on National...

Hon. Mwenje, who is the Deputy Whip of the Minority Party, to second.

Hon. Kakai Bisau. Hon. Bisau Kakai (Kiminini, DAP – K) : Thank you very much, Hon. Temporary Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to contribute.

Ring the Quorum Bell for 10 minutes. (The Quorum Bell was rung) ADJOURNMENT Hon. Members, the time being 8.09

Hon. Gonzi Rai. Is he in the House?

Order, Hon. Kimani Kuria. We are not yet there. We are in the middle of another business. Hon. Gonzi Rai is not there and so, we will take it that the response by Hon. TJ Kajwang’ is adequate. A copy of that response will be availed to him. Who is...

Hon. Joseph Lekuton, are you satisfied?

Hon. TJ Kajwang’, you are the one responding to the request by Hon. David Kiplagat. EXPANSION OF THE LESERU-KITALE-KORTUM HIGHWAY

Hon. David Kiplagat.

Hon. Johana Ng’eno.

Hon. Kajwang’, you can now respond to Hon. Kiplagat. You can also say something about what the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Housing, Urban Planning and Public Works has asked, if you have information.

Hon. Kiplagat, I would have requested you to listen to Hon. Kajwang’. As for Hon. Kajwang’, please avoid meandering over issues like a river. There is no Member who is junior here. We are all elected.

Hon. Kajwang’, do you know Soy Constituency? I was in Soy a while back. That is the bread basket of the country. Withdraw that, apologise and then continue with the response.

He is no longer on his feet and, therefore, you cannot inform him. Hon. Kajwang’ does not want your information. (Laughter)

Hon. Wanjala, who are you informing? Hon. Kajwang’, you can now proceed.

Is Hon. Wanjala attending to what is happening in the House? It is demanded that before Hon. Kajwang’ concludes the business that he was engaged in, you should withdraw that statement you have made and apologise. (Loud consultation)

Hon. Wanjala, remember the provision on relevance. You may be required to substantiate or otherwise, there would be consequences.

Hon. Janet Sitienei. Hon. Wanjala just sit down for a minute and listen to the concerns of your colleagues.

Hon. David Kiplagat.

Hon. Kiplagat, you will withdraw that last statement and then we get a response. Two wrongs do not make a right. You have no power, as a Member, to frog-march a colleague. Withdraw that from The Hansard or we expunge it.

Yes. You may sit down. (Loud consultations)

Hon. Wanjala, I am still with you. I do not know whether you are listening to the Chair. Can you listen to the Chair? Hon. Wanjala, I want you to withdraw the statement imputing that the people who are wherever you say they were went there because they are poor....

Hon. Wanjala, you withdraw unequivocally when you do so. Please, just say you withdraw the statement imputing the people of Soy were being given bread because they are poor. Just say you withdraw so that we transact business.

Thank you. (Hon. Wanami Wamboka spoke off the record) Hon. Wamboka, do you want to run the House when I am seated here? I have decided otherwise. Hon. Wamboka, let me hear you now.

Hon. Wamboka, just a minute. We are already done. What I heard Hon. Janet Sitienei say is that those Christmas gifts were given to everybody and it is not because they were poor. That ‘everybody’ included the people from western Kenya. Unless I did not hear her right, I find...

The Deputy Leader of the Majority Party insists on disrupting you again, Hon. Kajwang’.

Hon. Baya, the Temporary Speaker here is very keen. With the broad-based Government arrangement, I can tell you the Temporary Speaker seated here will not allow the name of the President to be discussed without a substantive Motion. If I heard them rightly, the request Hon. Wamboka and Hon. Wanjala...

Hon. Kajwang’, because time is so gone, if you agree there is inadequacy in the response in terms of addressing the other issues that have been mentioned by Hon. Kiplagat, why do you not just intervene in the manner we normally do so that we can transact the remaining business?

Thank you, Hon. Kajwang’. You have become a Chairman who has spoken for the longest time while responding to statements that have been sought in the afternoon but, of course, on behalf of your substantive Chairman, Hon. Macharia. Hon. David Kiplagat, I hope you are now satisfied. Hon. Kajwang’ has...

Hon. Kiplagat, you do not preside over the House. Before we continue, let me recognise students from the following schools who are seated in the Public Gallery: Goldfields School from Suna East Constituency in Migori County. They are from the constituency of the Leader of the Minority Party, Hon. Junet...

Thank you, Hon. Bisau. I am sorry because I did not recognise the fact that you were trying to ‘catch my eye’. I thought you wanted to address the matter of western Kenya people and what Hon. Raphael Wanjala was dealing with. Take note, Hon. TJ Kajwang’. Please, invite Hon....

This is a matter on rural electrification. Can you just sit down? Take your seat. I will give you a minute or two to raise it after we are done. Hon. Kimani Kuria, you were on the Floor, but I request you to sit for a minute so that we...

Hon. Sarah, your request for statement, which Committee was it addressed to? Is the Chair of the Departmental Committee on Agriculture and Livestock in the House? Where is the Vice-Chairperson? Both of them are not here! Committee Chairs are encouraged and reminded to always be in the House, particularly when...

Hon. Kajwang’, you know as a former assistant to the Speaker and a member of the Procedure and House Rules Committee, we may require a bit of your wisdom on the matter Hon. Kimani Kuria is raising.

I will allow some comments on this particular matter before the Speaker makes a communication. Hon. Gitonga Murugara, do you want to speak to this one?

The Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee, you are walking with Members and they are very happy behind you. They are not even following one side of the aisle. Could you, please, leave the House in silence?

Whip of the Minority Party, Hon. Murugara said that the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee is a very amiable man. So, anybody around him is expected to be happy the way the lady Members are. By coincidence, the Chairman of the Budget and Appropriations Committee was only in...

Hon. Wamboka, we will not disrupt the main parliamentary business for points of order. So, you will allow Hon. Murugara to continue.

Hon. Members, this is a very serious matter. I wish you could give it the attention we are now giving it. That is why I requested Hon. Kajwang’ to sit back. Principal secretaries and cabinet secretaries are permanently in the Senate addressing matters of the national Government, but not county...

Hon. Beatrice Elachi, there was a time when I travelled out of the country and the ambassador was informed that the Senate Committee Members of Defence and Foreign Relations were waiting at the airport to be received by him. I was asking which foreign relations matters between counties in Kenya...

Moses Kirima, then Hon. Tom Kajwang’ and Hon. David Ochieng’ in that order.

Thank you, Hon. Moses Kirima. Next is Hon. TJ Kajwang’.

Hon. Samuel Chepkong’a, I saw the Senate summon the Cabinet Secretary, National Treasury and Economic Planning. They were very livid in the media dealing with national Government matters. Please, comment in three minutes. Hon. Members, we should end with Hon. Samuel Chepkong’a so that the Speaker can give a communication.

Hon. David Ochieng’. Hon. Members, not more than two minutes. We want to transact substantive business.

Hon. Ochieng’ how can you say counties are not being overseen when in addition to their salary, you passed a budget here for something called the Senate Oversight Fund from which each Senator is already receiving over Ksh1.5 million each month?

Hon. Millie Mabona, Whip of the Minority Party.

Hon. Millie, you are saying something which is very important. Public officers or State officers are paid salaries to perform their work. The work of a Member of Parliament, whether in the National Assembly or in the Senate, is representation, legislation and oversight. How does the National Assembly give Members...

Hon. David Mboni, then lastly, Hon. Wilberforce Oundo.

Member for Funyula, you have two minutes.

Member for Ndhiwa.

Thank you. Members, we should now be going to the substantive business of the day. I will allow Hon. Yusuf on account of rank and then we leave it at that. We are approaching 6.00 p.m. and we have not gone into the substantive business. (Several Members spoke off the...

Hon. Yusuf, did you allow the Cabinet Secretary – or did you say Principal Secretary – to ignore you and go to the Senate on a matter that is domiciled in the national Government? (Hon. Yusuf Adan spoke off the record) I am happy he did. If he refused, remove...

Hon. Members, be notified that repeating points of order unnecessarily is in itself disorderly conduct. It can cost you very heavily. I do not want to go in that direction. Let us keep to the business of the House. ADOPTION OF FIRST REPORT ON IMPLEMENTATION STATUS OF REPORTS ON PETITIONS...

Yes, Hon. Ferdinand Wanyonyi. Whip of the Minority Party, we are on the matter under Order No. 9. I see your request here. Do you want to speak to this one?

Thank you, Whip of the Minority Party. Please, anybody who wants to speak to this matter should go to the intervention button. There being no more interest in the matter, I order that the Mover replies to the debate. Where is the Mover? The Mover of this Motion is the...

(Bill deferred)Yes. The Departmental Committee on Education should do so. With that information, you are right on your request. The matter under Order No. 11 is deferred to a future date, when the House Business Committee will reschedule it on the Order Paper. Next Order.

Both Hon. Oundo and Hon. Bisau can lead committees. Hon. TJ Kajwang’ represented the Chairperson of the Departmental Committee on Transport and Infrastructure very well. I cannot agree with you more, Hon. Millie. Let us proceed to the next Order, which is by Hon. Owen Baya, the Deputy Leader of...

Let us proceed to the next Order now. Is the Chairperson of the Committee on National Cohesion and Equal Opportunities here?

The Temporary Speaker appreciates that you have been sitting in the House from 2.30 p.m. up to this moment. It is good to be a ranking Member. You appreciate the business of the House and your position. So, you are commended. ADOPTION OF SECOND REPORT ON EMPLOYMENT DIVERSITY AUDIT IN...

Hon. Timothy Toroitich, the great Member for the great people of Marakwet West, to second.

Hon Adan, what Hon. Timothy is saying is very serious. Who are your Committee members? What has happened such that none of them is in the House?

Who are the Members of the Committee?

It is, indeed, unfortunate. Let us reflect on the meeting of the House leadership in Naivasha, as we transact our business. Hon. Timothy Toroitich, thank you for intervening. May you second this important Motion.

Even the Mijikenda in your Report are targeted. As you rightly said, Article 232 of the Constitution speaks to the integration of all ethnic communities in the Public Service. So, we should be clear on ethnic communities like Mijikenda and the Kalenjin.

I request everyone who wants to speak to press the intervention button. Hon. Owen Baya.

Hon. Owen Baya, you are making a very important constitutional point. Article 232 (1) (i) of the Constitution, which the able Chairperson of the Committee quoted, is affording adequate and equal opportunities for employment, training and advancement at all levels of public service.

Thank you for that frank contribution. Next is Hon. Wamboka. Minority Whip, I know you take priority over Hon. Wamboka. As a person who made the Constitution, we want to give you the best time.

Hon. John Kawanjiku, Member for Kiambaa.

For the avoidance of doubt, the Chairperson is behind here in the consultation room. He is a very courteous Chairperson because he informed me that he was going to the consultation room. The Chairperson is a Muslim and a time comes when they need to pray. So, he is just...

The Deputy Whip of the Majority Party, what is out of order?

Hon. Kawanjiku, when you talk about ethnic percentages, is it in relation to the national ethnic proportions or the manner in which communities voted in the last election?

The Whip of the Minority Party will take her due place in precedence.

Hon. Kuria Kimani.

Thank you for the correction.

Hon. Kakai Bisau.

Order, Hon. Members. Hon. Kakai Bisau, you will have six minutes to speak to this matter when it will be scheduled next by the House Business Committee. ADJOURNMENT Hon. Members, the time being 7.04